New Dungeon is a return to bad habits

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Originally Posted by Astronis

I've had more DPS upset with me for pulling everything on Mt. Gulg than I have ever had anyone breathe a word to me about not doing so. And their upset extended to simply leaving without saying a word. So yeah, I'm honestly pretty sure about that. Mt. Gulg's pulls have a reputation--they're fun but people KNOW they're a challenge, so they don't get pissy if someone doesn't want to send it.

I've also never gotten a trust to successfully manage that initial pull! They keep getting caught derping around fifty miles away from me. Trusts are kinda dumb.

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Maybe I've just been unfortunate enough that every time I've landed on it during a roulette the first pull always ends in drama of some kind (both on everything being pulled and not everything being pulled). Same with Doma Castle now that someone else mentions it.

I don't see as much fuss for older dungeons, but that might be due to the "courtesy" of assuming the tank is still new and learning, whereas by Stormblood and especially Shadowbringers they assume every tank is some immortal god that can handle everything, forgetting of course that there's 3 others who might not, or how said tank may have never done the longest pulls prior and so they're not inclined to do them later on.

Personally I avoid tanking and healing altogether precisely because I don't like the wall-to-wall format while in a support role, I don't like being the one responsible for a wipe because I couldn't handle what everyone just assumed I can because they were able to.

I avoided expert roulette for most of this expansion because the dungeons were too hard and I was too tired to handle them after work. There's a time and place for hard content and the MSQ isn't it.

That being said, IDK why this discussion keeps coming up. A bunch of people want everything to be Praetorium-tier Netflix Roulette and a bunch of people won't be happy until MSQ content makes TOP look easy, and you're never going to get them to agree on which direction would be better for the game as a whole. It's ultimately a waste of time for everyone involved.

Friendly reminder that Wildstar failed for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

We're back to endwalker difficulty content. Literally the one good thing about DT gameplay was the enhanced pace/mechanics.

I don't know what they are thinking. It's very difficult to not be disappointed all the time now.

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Huh? Was Dawntrail content really any more difficult than EW/Shb/Sb/Hw/Arr?
Any dungeon in the game is literally faceroll first-pull first-kill blind

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Originally Posted by ArchlordPie

I avoided expert roulette for most of this expansion because the dungeons were too hard and I was too tired to handle them after work. There's a time and place for hard content and the MSQ isn't it.

That being said, IDK why this discussion keeps coming up. A bunch of people want everything to be Praetorium-tier Netflix Roulette and a bunch of people won't be happy until MSQ content makes TOP look easy, and you're never going to get them to agree on which direction would be better for the game as a whole. It's ultimately a waste of time for everyone involved.

Friendly reminder that Wildstar failed for a reason.

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bait used to be believable

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Originally Posted by Alicie

Huh? Was Dawntrail content really any more difficult than EW/Shb/Sb/Hw/Arr?
Any dungeon in the game is literally faceroll first-pull first-kill blind

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Some of the expansion dungeons made people move slightly more often. But the bar is so low we've recently proved Sastasha was a harder dungeon than the current expert roulette.

Ironically, from someone telling me Sastasha was the equivalent of tutorial island for dungeons and couldn't be compared to today's expert roulette.

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Originally Posted by theunhappypotato

bait used to be believable

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yeah... the job + calling the expert dungeons in this expac hard is like. the most unambiguous bait ever

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Originally Posted by ArchlordPie

I avoided expert roulette for most of this expansion because the dungeons were too hard and I was too tired to handle them after work. There's a time and place for hard content and the MSQ isn't it.

That being said, IDK why this discussion keeps coming up. A bunch of people want everything to be Praetorium-tier Netflix Roulette and a bunch of people won't be happy until MSQ content makes TOP look easy, and you're never going to get them to agree on which direction would be better for the game as a whole. It's ultimately a waste of time for everyone involved.

Friendly reminder that Wildstar failed for a reason.

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I'm with you, although it was specifically the last MSQ dungeon that had me avoiding Expert roulette as a DPS because I suck so so so so badly at Serial Torture as a DPS. Tanking or healing? I can handle it. DPS? Eh.....

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Originally Posted by UNDEAD10000

Patch 7.4 dungeon bosses are mechanically the same then every other bosses in other Dawntrail dungeons, only difference is that bosses in patch 7.4 dungeon dosen't spam really fast AoE attacks every few seconds like bosses in other Dawntrail dungeons.

And i actually want bosses having slow phased unique mechanics like we used to have back in 2.0 and 3.0 times, then having same mechanics with different visuals that we have being getting for many years now.

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It's funny when you look at patch history for Dawntrail, the 7.1 dungeon is Yuyuweta that tripped people a lot, then we had Everkeep for 7.2 where people complained it was back to the old slow model, then we got Meso Terminal for 7.3 which once more started introducing fast paced or visually debilitating mechanics for certain players, and now we're back to the same old slow model with the new 7.4 dungeon. It's like the devs have no idea what to do.

Imo the problem is less the difficulty of the bosses (the latest ones are actually good in that regard for a dungeon) but that they cycle through their mechanics way too quickly because they barely have any.
If they had simply more mechanics to go through then they would be more interesting.
It's a problem of normal modes overall.
I personally think the bosses are fine enough for dungeons from a difficulty perspective even if I personally would like more "spice" given the state of the jobs nowadays.

It's really the trash pulls that continue to disappoint me.
Content can be easy but it has to be interesting and I fail to see why dungeons can't have more interesting in between encounters like for example using the Meso terminal as a template to split the party up between the bosses or randomizing trash pulls to an extent depending on the party composition.
Problem is that the devs seem unable or unwilling to put any effort into non-boss encounters. But lets be honest, if they gave us more interesting mobs then people here would complain because the dungeon takes longer because they have to spend a few minutes more to get their carrot of the day and from what I have seen in this forum and elsewhere, it is not the sprouts who were happy to get crystal tower in roulette.

NGL I don’t feel much different since EW lol. Stand here or “Nyah nyah, not like that! Now don’t do that again next time, mhmm?”. Faster? Few times, maybe. But they’re so far in-between. There comes to a point where player realizes every single mech are designed to be ‘solved’ within X seconds so long they’re looking at or notices the correct tells.

As for 7.3 dungeon flak, personally I think that’s because it easily exposes who ‘underperforms’ for various-but-not-necessarily valid reasons: outdated gears, not knowing the job well, playing safely, making too many mistakes, playing rDPS jobs, etc; failing to understand that it is NOT a competition.

They could easily create better dungeons if they were allowed to change formula. Remove thrash packs or place them in other ways. Make a dungeon with more paths *but make them required to open bigger ones or many different approaches that offers different rewards.

How about you put quests in dungeons? Maybe some dungeons where you have to hold ground until timer is out and similar? Idk there could be plenty of imagination here.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

NGL I don’t feel much different since EW lol. Stand here or “Nyah nyah, not like that! Now don’t do that again next time, mhmm?”. Faster? Few times, maybe. But they’re so far in-between. There comes to a point where player realizes every single mech are designed to be ‘solved’ within X seconds so long they’re looking at or notices the correct tells.

As for 7.3 dungeon flak, personally I think that’s because it easily exposes who ‘underperforms’ for various-but-not-necessarily valid reasons: outdated gears, not knowing the job well, playing safely, making too many mistakes, playing rDPS jobs, etc; failing to understand that it is NOT a competition.

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Of all the issues I have with DT dungeons, that one boss in the 7.3 dungeon is not one of them. I'm actually quite fond of that one assuming I'm awake enough to handle it.

Also, shoutouts to the multiple posters here who are so hopelessly incapable of understanding that someone might possibly be able to disagree with them in good faith that they instantly assumed my first post was bait.

It was not.