Discussion: User Created UI Addons?

Oh god I'm the lowest level of gamer :( What will I put on my resume now? How will I ever find a woman?

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

WOW's default UI has steadily evolved over the years and "kept up" with addons, precisely for the reason that the developers didn't want let addons feel required. For all it's problems, UI development is the one thing that you cannot fault WOW on, because it's been getting it right since day one.

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The purpose of user interface addons is to allow users to find ways of improving the UI rather than leave it up solely to the development team. Rather the development team simply would spot useful interface improvements and include them in future updates.

No one else allows this type of customization of the UI. And for one very good reason. It's a very stupid idea. What you get is a small few addons that do noticeably improve the game in some way or another. The vast majority are trivial improvements, copies and variations of other addons, or just plain bad user interface additions. Blizzard has never offered documentation, let alone any type of guidance to what makes a good interface addon.

The problem with UI customization with FFXIV is that the development team would have to spend a large amount of time developing the infrastructure to allow users to extend or replace the current UI. While presently the game does use lua for client side UI, it's not designed to be extended.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

The problem with UI customization with FFXIV is that the development team would have to spend a large amount of time developing the infrastructure to allow users to extend or replace the current UI. While presently the game does use lua for client side UI, it's not designed to be extended.

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That would be why they're completely remaking the UI and server structure... Hello? 2.0?

Also, the new UI is made using Scaleform which is also used in RIFT iirc.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

It's a very stupid idea. What you get is a small few addons that do noticeably improve the game in some way or another. The vast majority are trivial improvements, copies and variations of other addons, or just plain bad user interface additions.

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I don't understand how you're justifying that crowd-sourcing UI design is a "very stupid idea." Even if the vast majority of addons are trivial or bad, it's the good ones that are popular, and there's nothing stupid about improving your user interface beyond what your dev team finds worthwhile devoting resources to. Bad ones don't get used, and come at no cost beyond the developer's time input. There's a reason why WoW has such a high reputation when it comes to user interface (because it's extremely flexible and personalizable, and people like that).

Customization through "trivial" addons is also never a bad thing - logging in to play on an aesthetically pleasing UI still improves the gaming experience over playing with an ugly UI with the same functionality.

As for whether the devs think they have enough time to set up a system for customization and find that worthwhile... well, that's up to them. I wouldn't be calling them "very stupid" if they undertook such a project, though.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

So you guys think it's okay to build and use a mod that turns everything in to wire frame so you can see through walls while running a dungeon?

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It's against the TOS, so no. If it weren't against the TOS, then I would have no say in the matter. My only problem would be convincing the devs to make it against the TOS, not for the players to stop using it. Regardless, this is a dumb f**king strawman argument, because there hasn't been a single developer in the history of everything that has given API to users that allowed them to strip the textures off their meshes.

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Or you think it's okay to build a mod that immediately identifies a Boss's Elemental and Damage type Weaknesses?

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Yes, because it's doable by reading a guide first or asking someone else.

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Or you think it's okay to build a mod that calculates NM spawn times/locations?

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Yes, because you can ask someone else or do the calculations yourself.

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Or you think it's okay to build a mod that Auto-crafts?

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Debatable, depends on what the devs' rules are about auto-craft mods. It's allowed in WOW, and they eventually integrated auto-craft mods and superior crafting UIs back into the game's default features. If it's allowed in FFXIV, then yes, it's okay.

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Or you think it's okay to build a mod that Auto-gathers?

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See above.

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Or Auto-farms?

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See above.

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It's bad enough that Quest Tracker has become mainstream and all MMOs now imediately point you to the location of your objective. You want the game to play itself for you too?

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See above.

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What's the point of playing a game if all your going to do is modify it to make it easier? Don't try to pretend you wont. Moders are Moders and they all do the same thing.

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Modding simply re-shuffles the information on your screen to make it more accessible. There is literally nothing that modding automates for you that you cannot do with the default game, unless it's against the TOS, the devs are majorly slacking on updating the default UI, or both.

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"I'll just add this quest tracker.

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We have that now.

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Hmm.. maybe I'll get this enmity meter too.

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We have that now.

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Oh look this Mod will let me automate a series of attacks, that will be convenient.

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We have tat now.

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Hmm I haven't been able to get through that maze.. Mayb ei'll just grab this wire frame mod too.."

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You have maps, who needs "wire frames"?

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It's pathetic.

Play the Friggin game.

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You are wrong, and you are a petulant baby.

If your entire argument against mods is that someone, somewhere might make a mod that goes against the TOS, then you are inherently wrong and dumb; and you deserve neither protection from cheaters nor a good UI.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

If your entire argument against mods is that someone, somewhere might make a mod that goes against the TOS, then you are inherently wrong and dumb; and you deserve neither protection from cheaters nor a good UI.

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Giving the Community just part of the Code is more than they need. Players already reverse engineer the code. Giving them permission to do it will only make it easier. SE can make as many thing as they want against the ToS, but that will not stop people from using this Inch to take a Mile. It will only serve to make everything else more rampant.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Giving the Community just part of the Code is more than they need. Players already reverse engineer the code. Giving them permission to do it will only make it easier. SE can make as many thing as they want against the ToS, but that will not stop people from using this Inch to take a Mile. It will only serve to make everything else more rampant.

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Let me guess, you have no prior experience to development work. Does that sound about right?

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Debatable, depends on what the devs' rules are about auto-craft mods. It's allowed in WOW, and they eventually integrated auto-craft mods and superior crafting UIs back into the game's default features. If it's allowed in FFXIV, then yes, it's okay.

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WoW only allows batch processing of crafting because crafting is marginalized in the game as a trivial exercise that is not part of "core gameplay."

If WoW had a system of crafting like FFXIV's, where direct user input determines performance, automation would not be allowed. WoW's system actually very strongly prevents automation of "performance actions" through addons, and they maintain a system where every character action in combat requires 1 button push, and each combination of button+modifiers (sh-alt-ctrl) is unique -- in other words, you cannot queue actions in a macro, and you cannot use macros along with conditional expressions to choose for you what spell comes out of your button press. The only way to automate in WoW is to use third-party programs that run outside of the scope of the client, which gets you banned if you're found out.

I'd advocate that as far as addons go, this is a pretty good system to follow. It ensures that the player has to make the decision at every decision point, and has to act for every action.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Let me guess, you have no prior experience to development work. Does that sound about right?

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I'm one of the very few people on these forums who actually work in this Industry. I'm sorry, but this is one subject you cannot give a community the benefit of the doubt on. Every MMO that has ever had Mods has had Cheat mods. That is just the way people work. They make things as easy as possible instead of playing the game as intended.

You cannot give the community the ability to Add features to a game and not expect them to Cheat.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I'm one of the very few people on these forums who actually work in this Industry. I'm sorry, but this is one subject you cannot give a community the benefit of the doubt on. Every MMO that has ever had Mods has had Cheat mods. That is just the way people work. They make things as easy as possible instead of playing the game as intended.

You cannot give the community the ability to Add features to a game and not expect them to Cheat.

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Sure, you can expect people to use what you give them to the fullest extent that it is usable. The way to ensure people are not cheating is simple in concept, if more delicate in practice - you establish a concept of what you think is "acceptable play," and you design your addon API in light of this. If you find that API functions are being abused beyond this scope of acceptable practice, you patch the offending functions out. The game devs absolutely have control of what players can do with their addons in a well designed development environment.

Again, I'd say the guiding principle that WoW follows with respect to addon development is a fair one - that players actually have to make any decision, and each action has to come from a corresponding player action.

Every MMO ends up having some cheat or another pop up due to the complexity of the project. It's how long those cheats are allowed to last that makes the difference.

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Originally Posted by Promethevs

WoW only allows batch processing of crafting because crafting is marginalized in the game as a trivial exercise that is not part of "core gameplay."

If WoW had a system of crafting like FFXIV's, where direct user input determines performance, automation would not be allowed. WoW's system actually very strongly prevents automation of "performance actions" through addons, and they maintain a system where every character action in combat requires 1 button push, and each combination of button+modifiers (sh-alt-ctrl) is unique -- in other words, you cannot queue actions in a macro, and you cannot use macros along with conditional expressions to choose for you what spell comes out of your button press. The only way to automate in WoW is to use third-party programs that run outside of the scope of the client, which gets you banned if you're found out.

I'd advocate that as far as addons go, this is a pretty good system to follow. It ensures that the player has to make the decision at every decision point, and has to act for every action.

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Hence, "debatable". You know full well that SE will not allow automating of crafting; they've already tried to stop auto-enter systems. If they decide that they want to let people auto-craft, then that is their decision and modders making auto-craft mods does not mean that they are cheating.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I'm one of the very few people on these forums who actually work in this Industry. I'm sorry, but this is one subject you cannot give a community the benefit of the doubt on. Every MMO that has ever had Mods has had Cheat mods. That is just the way people work. They make things as easy as possible instead of playing the game as intended.

You cannot give the community the ability to Add features to a game and not expect them to Cheat.

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You are absolutely out of your element here and I don't believe for one second that you are part of the development industry; or you would not have said something as ignorant as having exposed API makes it easier to reverse engineer a product. These are not jigsaw puzzles, having more open API does not make it easier to reverse engineer the rest of the compiled code.

Saying that every MMO who has had mods has had cheating mods is disingenuous because every MMO has had cheating mods. Every MMO has a combination of client-server communication vulnerabilities, vulnerable configuration files that are stored client side, or simple mechanics that can be mimicked by custom automated third party tools. Every. Single. MMO.

Besides that, the bulk of the game's logic and code is stored server side. Nobody reverse-engineers server side code. If you are truly in the industry as you say, and you are not in an entry level position, you should be ashamed that you even said something like that.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Besides that, the bulk of the game's logic and code is stored server side. Nobody reverse-engineers server side code. If you are truly in the industry as you say, and you are not in an entry level position, you should be ashamed that you even said something like that.

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Nice attempt twisting my Words, but I never said that API's would make it easier to reverse engineer the game. I said it would make it easy to abuse the code.

Players already reverse engineer the code.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Giving the Community just part of the Code is more than they need. Players already reverse engineer the code. Giving them permission to do it will only make it easier. SE can make as many thing as they want against the ToS, but that will not stop people from using this Inch to take a Mile. It will only serve to make everything else more rampant.

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Done replying to you. You're incorrigibly arrogant and won't admit you're wrong, incorrigibly dumb, or trolling me.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

If your entire argument against mods is that someone, somewhere might make a mod that goes against the TOS, then you are inherently wrong and dumb; and you deserve neither protection from cheaters nor a good UI.

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On a similar note, I'm absolutely 100% against the development of car parts, because someone somewhere might speed and break the speed limit.

Well I've found this distance meter for FFXIV a little while ago. I didn't find it particularly helpful. Hard to read and hard to configure.

If there's one mod I'd really love to have... an angular positioning readout! (or even a rough L-R-B-F format)
Thinking I'm in the right spot only to realize I'm slightly off and have already used my 10-second-cooldown starter or 20-second-cooldown second step is a pain.

Especially on monsters that like to switch facing like cactuars, or monsters that visually angle their bodies without actually angling like Amaljaa...

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

there you see the difference between a wow and a non wow players. i would not miss it..
well when people need it for their alter ego.. then go for it.

in battle i can see how much damage i do, and how others do. personally i dont need it.

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Alter ego?! What are we, fucking Batman?

I want a JP button Add on . . . why not?

noomy are old time friend how are ya! >;)

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Originally Posted by Godsleftsock

Alter ego?! What are we, fucking Batman?

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Nanananananana ADDONMAN

A friendlist. I would really like to know which of my friends are on at any time, maybe with a notification of someone getting on.

A news feed of some sort for when I'm doing boring stuff like crafting or waiting around for a party. Maybe a reddit feed or what have you.

Lastly and idk if this is Farfetch'd but what about some kind of pokedex system. It can search and tell you about the mob your are currently targetting and the possible drops and percentage rates.

This topic is moot.
Regardless of which add-on, whether you need it or not, or whether you like it or not...someone is bound to make one.

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Originally Posted by RiseAgainst

noomy are old time friend how are ya! >;)

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Good good, and you Rise?

Anywayz, btw... feel free to bring your guys into the discussion.
This concerns you aswell, more than anything.

Wow, lots of different discussions going on in this thread.

-- Parsers: They are good if you are interested in game mechanics/formulas. They are good to unveil the hidden meaning and impact of stats and skills. Since we are not told what the formula is, and the observed results are random, only a parser can tell us what the secret formula is.

-- Number Crunching: It can be interesting or even fun to optimize for numbers. However, do we want a game where that is necessary? So far, every Final Fantasy game I played did not care if I optimized for equipment/skills/whatever. I would either win or loose. If I loose, get something better. If I win, then I'm good enough to carry on to the next adventure. FF is not a combat simulator. It's a story telling game where children save the world from evil do-ers.

Now back to topic!

-- User Created UI: If a new UI package appears that a subset of the community deem ultra important and ultra necessary to the point that they will not party with others that do not have it installed then this has a negative impact to those who do not want to use that package. You can see this now with voice-chat. It's pretty much mainstream and many people will prefer not to party (or will refuse to) with others who do not have that voice-chat software. The same MAY become with other addons. For example, ones that show % of health and distance, where strategy says: Stand exactly 12 yalms from target and attack until 63%. (We are almost there now with Garuda and Raven).

But if you dig into those arguments above you can see the real underlying issue:
It is not the tools that we create, or the desire to have optimized equipment that matters. It is the world that SE creates. If they create a world where we NEED to know how to optimize our equipment to succeed, or we NEED add-on tools in order to finish an adventure then people will naturally go in that direction.

If however, SE creates a world where knowing the formulas or optimizing gear are 'nice' but hardly 'necessary', and the benefit of add-on tools are purely cosmetic without any gameplay impact then the need for those will be diminished.

So, Yoshi, what kind of world will you create for us? Where focus is on adventuring and storytelling with only a minor emphasis on equipment, or one where the parser and numbers shall rule us all?

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

-- Number Crunching: It can be interesting or even fun to optimize for numbers. However, do we want a game where that is necessary? So far, every Final Fantasy game I played did not care if I optimized for equipment/skills/whatever. I would either win or loose. If I loose, get something better. If I win, then I'm good enough to carry on to the next adventure. FF is not a combat simulator. It's a story telling game where children save the world from evil do-ers.

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That's essentially saying that the game does care for optimized gear/skill/etc. If you can't win, then you need to improve until you can. Obviously, better gear should equal better performance. If it doesn't, then it's a player issue. The issue is that most people can't distinguish between a bad player or bad gear based on the numbers alone. I myself would much rather group with a good player who has bad gear, than a bad player that has good gear. The good player will eventually become great, but the bad one will still just be bad.

I'd certainly hope people want a game where it's necessary to optimize for numbers, otherwise you'd be able to wear anything to kill anything, completely negating the need to ever progress in the game. Lots of games follow "Kill mob > get gear > kill harder mob > get better gear > kill hardest mob > get best gear", and MMOs are typically not all that different.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

That's essentially saying that the game does care for optimized gear/skill/etc. ..

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Please note: Better does not mean optimized.
Upgrading from level 40 sword to level 50 sword is better.
Upgrading sword to the best possible sword for that slot in order to take advantange of maximing each stat is 'optmizing'.

So far, Final Fantasy has only cared: Do you have a decent enough sword for this area.
It has not said: You have to have the best gear in order to finish this quest.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

congrats, you play a statistic game and not a RPG anymore.

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lol wut? rpg has always been about stats and numbers, what universe do you come from friend?

Imma let you finish, but..

You all are kinda missing the forest for the trees.

FFXIV's battle isn't like WoW's. So dmg meters will inherently work differently. I mean, from my knowledge, WoW ??k dps output relied marginally on gear and highly on rotation (the order of your skills). In FFXI(V) it was from a number of things: gear equipped at time of white/skill execution; buffs from food/spells/subjobs; and, in slightest detail, weather. So how accurate can our meters be if people are gear swapping in the middle of fights?

Me: "Hey man your numbers were kinda low"
Guy: "Oh my gear swap macro wasn't working. I messed up a line"
Me: "Liar! get outta my party, noob."

As someone else said in this thread, we don't know how 2.0 will even play. But we can go off of the history of FFonline games operating within those margins.

Final point: Final Fantasy has always attempted to establish itself as a different mmo when compared to the rest of the genre. That is why in a sea of Free to play, Final Fantasy maintains its subscription model. Being different is Final Fantasy's DNA. Currently SE is trying to make that "different" into "good". I urge all of you to think about how it felt (feels) to play a brand new mmo, day one, only to realize a week later that this "new mmo" is just a re-skinned WoW attempting to get both your time and your money all the while treating you like you don't know any better. It happens year after year and yet many of you would rather your new mmo (in 2012 no less) to play barely different than one that came out in 2004.

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Originally Posted by Promethevs

I don't understand how you're justifying that crowd-sourcing UI design is a "very stupid idea." Even if the vast majority of addons are trivial or bad, it's the good ones that are popular, and there's nothing stupid about improving your user interface beyond what your dev team finds worthwhile devoting resources to. Bad ones don't get used, and come at no cost beyond the developer's time input. There's a reason why WoW has such a high reputation when it comes to user interface (because it's extremely flexible and personalizable, and people like that).

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WoW has a reputation for user interface customizability, not a high reputation for it's actual user interface. And plenty of people play WoW with out user interface addons. And even among Blizzard's titles, what other games allow you access to UI APIs for standard customization? Why is D3 lacking a way to allow the same interface customization that WoW does? Hmmm?

What people want in a UI are three things...

• Effecient to use and work with
• Easy to learn (intuitive)
• More Satisfying to use

If an interface does well with all three of these, you quickly find that people don't bother to personalize it because they see no need. But when one or two of these are lacking, well that's when you start seeing people demand "I wanna customize my interface with all this stuff that sounds real cool if I don't think about it."

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Originally Posted by Xairos

blablabla

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I don't really see how gear swapping changes anything. Gear swapping can be considered as a rotation. If you fail to gear swap properly it's like failing to rotate a spell properly or use your charge/fury properly etc. So you're still a bad player in any case.

As for WoW and such relying only on gear/rotation, it's wrong, it relies on everything

- Gear
- Spell rotation
- Positioning
- Mechanics anticipation (move at the right time etc.)
- Raid consumables (Food/Potions)
- Spec tree (could be considered like sub job in a way)

As for the F2P part, which game are we talking about? XI? Yeah well game from 2002, different market at the time, game mostly popular in Japan etc. Tons of factors that justify why the game is still ok with a pay to play model. As for XIV, we all know it's not profitable at the moment...

According to what was said in previous dev posts, they are about 300 persons working on the game in Japan. Add to that the dedicated staff in America and Europe. (our GMs, Reps and so on). Now add the total development time put into the game, we can safely say that a lot of people were working on XIV as early as 2008. XIV is not profitable with the few amount of players it has right now. And it won't be profitable if it remains that way, hence why the game is taking a new direction and try to attract more players. A wider audience even if it means becoming a bit less original.

No one wants a game like XI again. And most of us are done with the so-called Square Enix Originality©. We have seen what's XIV 1.0 was all about in term originality. Sure it was unique... uniquely terrible.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

No one wants a game like XI again.

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I do. I liked it. There goes your 'no one' ^.^;;

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Originally Posted by Antipika

And most of us are done with the so-called Square Enix Originality©.

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I'm not. I like originality. I like people/companies that are willing to take a chance and try something new rather than be a clone. You think WoW just said: Let's clone (whoever is popular). They took a chance and succeeded.

Sometimes you succeed, sometimes you fail. But without taking a chance, you are already a failure.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

We have seen what's XIV 1.0 was all about in term originality. Sure it was unique... uniquely terrible.

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Can't be that terrible. You're here. I'm here. Lots of people here.

For a little taru, you sure make galkan sized generalizations.

Back to topic!:
I wonder if I can have dedicated chat boxes on a seperate screen.

If you want XI back, what do you do in here? >>http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/ The game is still running you know.

As for taking a chance, the game already used it. It failed. When you can't be original on certain game aspects, don't try. SE learned its lesson for the UI and we are now getting a standard UI that will do the job, even while being less original.
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Can't be that terrible? Yeah first AAA MMO in the history which went completely free for months while a pay to play model was announced. Even Wada-san saying it caused damage to the whole franchise. Not terrible you said? Half of the dev team changed few months after release. What is terrible then? You just have low expectations I think.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I'm one of the very few people on these forums who actually work in this Industry. I'm sorry, but this is one subject you cannot give a community the benefit of the doubt on. Every MMO that has ever had Mods has had Cheat mods. That is just the way people work. They make things as easy as possible instead of playing the game as intended.

You cannot give the community the ability to Add features to a game and not expect them to Cheat.

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thats a good point. and thats what i meant.

im ok with offline rpgs, people can mod or cheat their asses off in offline singleplayer rpgs if they want to.. nobody will ever be disturbed by that. i dont mind if they cheat the game itself.

from the developers it is NOT intended to let the players see how far they are away from a specific monster, otherwise they would have implemented things like these for their own UI (range metre as an example) why making those numbers visible for players? its like making visible the next chess stroke from the PC in a chess game... i cant seriously understand those people to make everything more easier, as it was supposed to be.. how about a UI feature where you see the cooldown of the enemies abillities? well that would be somethin?

a game where you experience the gameplay on YOUR OWN. i think you forgot what a game is supposed to be.
where are the arguments that you SHOULD be able to see unvisible informations like these? nobody from the +pro side could ever tell me (in an objective way!)

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Originally Posted by Antipika

If you want XI back, what do you do in here? >>http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/ The game is still running you know.

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you could also say the same thing to the wide WoW audience in here "what do you do in here?"

such an WoW arrogant behaviour in here, seriously. and you know.. WoW is also still running.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

you could also say the same thing to the wide WoW audience in here "what do you do in here?"

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Wanting an UI that works = wanting to play WoW? It's not even like WoW invented that also.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

Wanting an UI that works = wanting to play WoW?

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ehm and in her opinion the FFXI UI is something that works = wanting to play FFXI? (how you told her)

its just annoying to see such ignorant postings from people who seriously want to have "World of Final Fantasy", it makes me just sick. i cant hear it anymore.

my opinion remains the same. people can cheat and mod their "asses off" in singleplayer rpgs because no one is disturbed by it. but in my opinion people should not make hidden numbers visible, if it was not intended by the developers! if so they would have implemented that in their own UI. what about a UI feature which makes the re-use timer of monster/boss abillities visible? -> easy win? as i said, im not a fan of UI "addons" in an Online Game. We can easily play without that shit (we did so in many Final Fantasys)


yea.. and people complain about a stat booster in the re-release version of FF7... its so true.

What you still fail to understand is that even if something is not implemented, players will find way around it and use parsers etc. You can parse XIV actually, without even breaching the ToS (the logs are exported by using a native functionality and the parser doesn't need to hook itself directly to the game process).

As for:

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ehm and in her opinion the FFXI UI is something that works = wanting to play FFXI?

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The FF XI UI doesn't work. The game is getting a new UI for a reason. Also how many PC players did use third party tools on XI? Lot of them, which obviously mean that there was an issue with the UI from the start. If the vanilla UI is fine, why would I bother to breach the ToS and use third party tools?

And don't tell me that only min/maxers did so. Even people not caring about endgame and such had Windower+plugins installed. It wasn't (only) about performance, it was about convenience.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

The FF XI UI doesn't work.

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your opinion. not hers. your opinion is also that WoW has the best UI system. which isnt my opinion also... so...

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Originally Posted by Antipika

What you still fail to understand is that even if something is not implemented, players will find way around it and use parsers etc. You can parse XIV actually, without even breaching the ToS (the logs are exported by using a native functionality and the parser doesn't need to hook itself directly to the game process).

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Well parsing should be also not allowed, why shall it? you make invisible numbers visible for players.. isnt that kind of hacking/cheating/modding/manipulating around the game client, whatever? for what do you need it?

Tell me please why people should be able to see these things, if they are not implemented by the developer?

Bots are also not implemented and are highly used...

And one serious question.. do you need mods, to play a game? do you need mods/cheats, to be successfull in a game? did you need mods in offline final fantasys for being effective? just tell me, why we should need ugly user interfaces? to have advantages against players who dont use it?

in an online game? seriously is this your intention? i mean there was also a big base of players in Diablo II battlenet, which cheated their asses off. i think such a clientele enjoys having mods in MMorpgs too.

but please eleborate.

some really interesting reading so far, and some infinite loopy posts but ok :confused:.

Anyone wonder how this game would be with no UI whatsoever?
Call it a "mod" (if you like) to completly remove the ingame HUD.

Meaning... no HP/MP/TP bar, no minimap, no actionbar, no communication...etc

(Try disable HUD in Dark Souls & see how freakin awesome that is lol)