Are we expecting TO MUCH from 8.0?

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

I can understand wanting that but two things and I don't mean that as saying you are wrong in wanting what you want:

I think it's a bit unfair to criticize this game for doing something in a direction you personally don't like and call it slop when you want change in the broader way from Japanese games.

Sorry but I simply disagree with the notion of throwing something in the dirt just because of personal taste.
The variant dungeon is a story book and the artstyle is fitting for that I think
You can dislike it and want something else, that's fine and good but frankly you guys overdo it a bit with the negative voices and by calling it "slop" or "not good art direction".
That's simply not true and even I can see that they put thought into that artstyle. They could have easily not done anything special.

Call me white knight or such a thing (at least I kinda feel like that lately here), I don't care anymore but I think feedback should stay at least partly neutral in how it's presented.
A simple "not my taste" or "would have liked a different artstyle" would have said the same thing.
Instead we have people here calling an artstyle "slop", ask devs to be fired or go to different threads calling things copium simply because people like a trailer.

Is the artstyle childish? Yeah.
Does it fit the dungeon? Also yeah.

I am getting more and more tired of this forum because sometimes it feels like some people here actually don't want the game to get better again because then they would have nothing to complain about here anymore (though I don't include you here because you at least explained your pov).

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Personally while I do share the same kind of subjective takes than the user you quoted on the current direction of the game, your points is also literally why I've abstained from commenting too much over it. At least the devs are trying something new. It's not in the direction I'd like it to go, but that's fine I guess. It's a V&C dungeon, not the main story. That's also why I'm a lot more critical about the main story for the same reasons incidentally.

The only thing I'll criticize negatively about this variant dungeon is that no, the textures are actually not good, they're blurred/pixelated to try and emulate a nintendo game but they just make me feel like I'm looking at a PS2 game. That's on the technical level.

Oh no, my expectation is already fulfilled: 8.0 is not Dawntrail, and that's more than enough for me.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Oh no, my expectation is already fulfilled: 8.0 is not Dawntrail, and that's more than enough for me.

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The monkey's paw curls inward.
Wuk Lamat is the new WoL and we have to babysit her all throughout the next expansion, the MSQ is only cutscenes between walking segments, the dungeons have no special mechanics and are one corridor to make trusts perfect and easy to code and the jobs all have 50 buttons that do the same thing.

Probably.
But uif they deliver on the story and jobs, I won't complain.

Wuk Lamat this. Wuk Lamat that.

Did none of you notice that she was completely absent from the 7.4 trailer? Instead we're gallivanting with Sphene.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

Wuk Lamat this. Wuk Lamat that.

Did none of you notice that she was completely absent from the 7.4 trailer? Instead we're gallivanting with Sphene.

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She actually appears for a little bit in the trailer. It's at 1:03 next to Erenville and when they are meeting a hrothgar and a mamook. Of course she is now very much in the background. Personally, I would of liked this patch where she wouldn't of appeared at all cause I know dang well shes going to appear in 7.5 tp give some sappy farewell speech about how much we helped and teached her etc etc. I'm not saying she'll play a big part but to say she's completely absent is also wrong to say.

Edit: I admit I am being very pedantic here. It is a very small detail but admittedly I think it's foolhardy she wouldn't appear as long as we are still in Tural.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

She actually appears for a little bit in the trailer. It's at 1:03 next to Erenville and when they are meeting a hrothgar and a mamook. Of course she is now very much in the background. Personally, I would of liked this patch where she wouldn't of appeared at all cause I know dang well shes going to appear in 7.5 tp give some sappy farewell speech about how much we helped and teached her etc etc. I'm not saying she'll play a big part but to say she's completely absent is also wrong to say.

Edit: I admit I am being very pedantic here. It is a very small detail but admittedly I think it's foolhardy she wouldn't appear as long as we are still in Tural.

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Aymeric was the de facto leader of Ishgard for most of 3.X and I don't remember him being a permanent fixture outside of politicking. Lyse is similar, where I don't remember her being involved apart from 4.1 and 4.5.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

Wuk Lamat this. Wuk Lamat that.

Did none of you notice that she was completely absent from the 7.4 trailer? Instead we're gallivanting with Sphene.

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Wuk seems to be next to us in a shot of the trailer. Doesn't she have a country to run? Why is she still with us?

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

Wuk Lamat this. Wuk Lamat that.

Did none of you notice that she was completely absent from the 7.4 trailer? Instead we're gallivanting with Sphene.

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Wuk is like stinky garbage. Even if you remove it, the smells will linger for a while.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Wuk is like stinky garbage. Even if you remove it, the smells will linger for a while.

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Sphene must be such a good air freshener that I didn't even notice the crap still there.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

Sphene must be such a good air freshener that I didn't even notice the crap still there.

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If Sphene does not join us in 8.0, there will be many sad players.

Not me.

I don't want a single thing from Dawntrail following us like a nasty smell.

Just picked up WoW again on Saturday after years of break because I was so upset with FFXIV between the disappointing story, awful instance designs and unplayable server performance. Spent a few minutes yesterday with my face in my hands having to come to terms with the fact that the current state of this game is just not it. It is so depressing, stuck in the past, taking tiny baby steps in directions instead of actually innovating. And the worst part is that it is so very upsetting because I am deeply attached to the game, the world and the characters.

I know there is also nostalgia here but WoWs overall systems just work better. They even took FFXIV's UI management system and just implemented it themselves. The input for spells and movement is fast and responsive where FFXIV feels like it is kinda floaty due to both the long cast delay and the terrible server performance (i play on US on both, that is not the issue here). The talent tree is big but easy to understand. They have a ton of systems in place to guide people through the game and give them the choice to take the scenic route or catch up fast.
The flying. Oh my god the new flying. I could spend hours while waiting for spawns just zipping around the sky.
Then the housing. I don't think I have to say much to it. It's just objectively better than FFXIV in any sense.
The recent animations from Dragonflight onwards and the voice acting have taken such a massive leap in quality it took me by surprise.

Constant updates regarding newly implemented systems from the dev team. Open communication on stuff they admit had to be cut but was moved to a slightly later date and was promised with great confidence.
And the world is so alive.
You find people talking in chat and moving about the world alongside you at any hour of the day. People actually stop and help each other. There's a living community outside of the guilds. Even on the small pop RP server I play on atm.
There is actually so much to do it is slightly overwhelming. Having to temper myself for the sake of my buddy but man. It's sad. I don't even have enough letters available to list all the things that stood out to me.

Yeah... 8.0 has big shoes to fill. It was a truly eye opening experience. Depressing but eye opening. I desperately hope they are looking at the PC competition, not just the mobile market.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

If Sphene does not join us in 8.0, there will be many sad players.

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Sadly, I can't see that she will. The narrative seems to be leaning heavily toward her 'new' role as the reinstated Queen of Alexandria. I doubt that she could decide to leave and go Adventuring with us even if she wanted to.
I mean, to be fair, the reasons she probably wouldn't join us are the very same reasons Wuk Lamat won't either (and not going to state the obvious regarding her here!).

It's a shame it's pretty much confirmed Sphene won't join us past this expansion. But I also think it is best to not allow her to follow us if they're setting up a new start point for players. A brand new cast would be good too.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

If Sphene does not join us in 8.0, there will be many sad players.

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I really dont care for Sphene... Plus she'll be way to busy fixing the mess they left behind

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I don't think anyones expecting much from 8.0....

They might be demanding changes, but I don't think they actually expect them.

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will just be the same release template as the previous 4 expansions

If I’m being completely honest, I don’t really expect much anymore. A big reason why I’m still here has more to do with nostalgia, sunk cost, and my in-game house than with genuine enjoyment.

After so many years, I recently reached a point where I seriously considered letting the house go and canceling my subscription. The simple truth is that the game hasn’t been truly fun for me in a long time. It often feels like the same cycle over and over again, and the character options in particular feel very outdated; more like something from decades ago than from a modern MMO.

This isn’t a sudden mood or a reaction to one patch. It’s a feeling that has built up gradually over the years. That’s why I don’t really have any expectations left anymore.

Take the story out and Dawntrail has been the best expansion so far. I agree the story was poor, and forked tower fell flat as it really needed a normal mode. Other than that the rest of the content has been incredible.

Anyone trying to say WoW is better in the story is acting in bad faith. As a long term WoW player myself, sure it's improved a lot, but even the latest WoW expansion makes ARR look like a masterpiece in VA and storytelling.

If the game isn't fun to you anymore then that's fine, people move on, people get bored after all this time, it's okay and in life it happens. But if you say it's because of a decline in quality of the content then that's just a straight up lie.

Personally? No.

I am expecting it to be mostly the same template with platitudes about "things will get better, it's a new arc".

I suspect most of my remaining friends (that I 'actively' play with will unsubscribe)

If this is the case, I will either unsubscribe, and outright play something else, e.g., invest in Runescape again, leaving this behind... Or I will just unsubscribe and continue with a free trial account, playing whenever I have nothing better to do or play.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Take the story out and Dawntrail has been the best expansion so far. I agree the story was poor, and forked tower fell flat as it really needed a normal mode. Other than that the rest of the content has been incredible.

Anyone trying to say WoW is better in the story is acting in bad faith. As a long term WoW player myself, sure it's improved a lot, but even the latest WoW expansion makes ARR look like a masterpiece in VA and storytelling.

If the game isn't fun to you anymore then that's fine, people move on, people get bored after all this time, it's okay and in life it happens. But if you say it's because of a decline in quality of the content then that's just a straight up lie.

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It's once again so interesting to me since "Didn't like the story but loved most other content" is the exact same sentiment that floated around Stormblood.

But as a comparison to ARR, Tural still feels very underbaked, and the Ninth is much more alive and functional than Alexandria initially implied. There were tons of smaller details in ARR that meant something later.

It seems like the devs now want the Right of Succession to just be the equivalent of a filler arc going forward, with how fast they swapped Wuk Lamat for Sphene in 7.2 and stopped giving us any reason to stick around Turali locations in the MSQ if they weren't directly linked to Alexandria.

They're even dangling G'raha and Y'shtola in front of us like a pair of keys while sending the twins away (oh, wait, THESE are the favorite male and female characters, not the children) and actually did a big story moment for Krile, who we all agreed was robbed in the base MSQ.

Like, they are ABSOLUTELY feeding into what we want right now and I get more intrigued by 8.0's potential with every new bit of content.

If anything, it feels like SE gave the devs an actual budget again after 7.0.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

the Ninth is much more alive and functional than Alexandria initially implied.

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I will say that's not remotely the impression that 7.4 gave me, the impression I got is that Treno was at the brink, even if they had managed the breach that happened with the Thundergust Griffin, they would've done so at extremely heavy losses, and the Doomtrain could've done them in completely, WoL and co. literally showed up at the nick of time to avert a major crisis, and it is simply a depiction of the abyss of power that is WoL compared to everyone else, even the Doomtrain, the strongest weapon of their world, was another "it was Tuesday" for WoL, this is something Halmarut further echoes towards the end of the patch story, and while she may be wrong that there is no hope, she is not wrong to not be particularly optimistic, it will only take another crisis like that, where they don't have the living demigod and their not-as-demigodly-but-damn-close crew to save them.

To sum it up, while I am not sure I agree with her, I was given a full understanding of why Eternal Sphene believed there was no hope in that world.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

If anything, it feels like SE gave the devs an actual budget again after 7.0.

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We must save the hettso!

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

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”Much more alive and functional," as opposed to a dead wasteland of literally nothing that I, at least, assumed remained outside of what Alexandria had going within their dome.

Instead we learn there are settlements scattered about surviving with some advanced tech with trade between them still clinging on and entire functioning natural ecosystems still going despite the levin influence. Despite everything being bad, it really doesn't feel that far removed from what we were seeing in Norvrandt in the little towns in places like Kholusia. People just barely making it work, but they still were making it work.

No, I'm expecting the standards that they themselves set with their previous expansions that I enjoyed a lot more than Dawntrail.
If that's too much, then it's time for them to wrap it up and go full mobile.

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Originally Posted by Valence

We must save the hettso!

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Koana's storyline was where XIV's narrative peaked.

Everytime I go to ARR zones I feel something nice and become happy. Really makes me wonder how ARR zones are better in quality than what we have now even though they are much smaller in size.

Exactly what are we expecting other than that? If they revamp some of the systems entirely, it would not be unreasonable to expect too much.

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

Everytime I go to ARR zones I feel something nice and become happy. Really makes me wonder how ARR zones are better in quality than what we have now even though they are much smaller in size.

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1.X, for all its many faults, placed more emphasis on the world. A lot obviously changed between 1.23 and 2.0, but there was still an emphasis on basic things like towns, landmarks, and interconnectivity, especially when emphasizing the impact of the Calamity. Zones nowadays are first and foremost intended to fill quotas and be set pieces for the MSQ and daily hubs.

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

Everytime I go to ARR zones I feel something nice and become happy. Really makes me wonder how ARR zones are better in quality than what we have now even though they are much smaller in size.

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Because they were redesigns of the really terrible 1.0 zones that kept the good stuff and are as loaded with detail as current zones but a fraction of the size.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

Because they were redesigns of the really terrible 1.0 zones that kept the good stuff and are as loaded with detail as current zones but a fraction of the size.

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I would prefer ARR sized zones and have more of them each expansion.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I would prefer ARR sized zones and have more of them each expansion.

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Make 8.0 zones 3/4ths the size of DT's zones. Still enormous, still reward flying, but then they can press the detail and overworld content closer together to make it just feel more alive and natural.

There are so many detailed nooks and crannies in DT zones we're unlikely to ever see because we just have no reason to explore that stuff even if you do all side quests.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

Because they were redesigns of the really terrible 1.0 zones that kept the good stuff and are as loaded with detail as current zones but a fraction of the size.

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Often they added most of the good stuff, because there was none in the 1.0 zones. The vast majority of them was just flat copy+pasted plains.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I would prefer ARR sized zones and have more of them each expansion.

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While I would also prefer ARR zones if I had to choose between the two, it wouldn't really work as long as flying exists.
You notice it in the ARR zones right now even after the update, they were not designed for flying mounts and the comparatively small size becomes really jarring when you can zoom through them on a flying mount.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

There are so many detailed nooks and crannies in DT zones we're unlikely to ever see because we just have no reason to explore that stuff even if you do all side quests.

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As someone who just flies through the zones when I'm bored, looking for exactly this stuff. Yes, Dawntrail has a few of those nooks and crannies but still nowhere close to ARR, where almost every zone was packed with tiny details, NPCs just doing their thing, buildings you could enter in almost every tiny settlement and "mysteries" that we don't have an explanation for to this day. I put mysteries in quotations because sometimes it's just a really big door you can't get past, but the question of what's behind it remains.


Ultimately I blame flying for the change in zone design.
Yes it's a really convenient feature to quickly get somewhere, but the consequence of flying is that zones needed a massive increase in size so you couldn't just get to the end in seconds and feel like they're way too tiny.

This increase of course had some knock-on effects, like the reduction in clutter/detail. Both so consoles/potato PCs could handle the zones but also because they simply didn't have the time to add that much detail to environments 4 times the size.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

You notice it in the ARR zones right now even after the update, they were not designed for flying mounts and the comparatively small size becomes really jarring when you can zoom through them on a flying mount.

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What I notice more is that there is actually quite a few ARR maps that use perspective tricks for landmarks, and they are actually much smaller than they appear, notably Castrum Occidens in Eastern La Noscea has some parts that look really off if you can fly a lot closer to them than you were ever supposed to get.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

What I notice more is that there is actually quite a few ARR maps that use perspective tricks for landmarks, and they are actually much smaller than they appear, notably Castrum Occidens in Eastern La Noscea has some parts that look really off if you can fly a lot closer to them than you were ever supposed to get.

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One that I've noticed is you can see the West Shroud plateau in multiple zones quite clearly despite us not being able to go there {aside from a long gone deleted Feast map that could just as easily be anywhere in the Shroud). It was apparently absolutely wrecked in the Calamity but it's a constant landmark in the distance and just teases me to this day.

That's another thing zones from HW onward quit doing; the zones are now set so far apart in universe that consistent landmarks like that just aren't a thing. They feel very contained mostly and often disconnected.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

Because they were redesigns of the really terrible 1.0 zones that kept the good stuff and are as loaded with detail as current zones but a fraction of the size.

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Call me crazy, but I'm so tired of the huge areas we have nowadays. Takes ages to get through them even at max flying speed, they look empty and nothing ever fits on my map anymore, which is so annoying. We could go back to ARR-sized maps and I'd consider it an upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

[...]You notice it in the ARR zones right now even after the update, they were not designed for flying mounts and the comparatively small size becomes really jarring when you can zoom through them on a flying mount.

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Personally I consider it satisfying, especially since flying was awarded at the end of the expansion vs. as you finish questing in that zone. So it feels good, earned and I like getting places quickly when I need to. I also like walking and GPosing through lush, detailed areas when I want to. It's a win-win in my book.

Cautiously optimistic they need to wow players to show they're putting effort, 14 is SE's cashcow (still)

Like others have said, there isn't much they can change. Being safe is the key to please most players, shareholders! So don't expect too much.

Rough predictions:

6 Patches - Essentially 8.5 pt 2 becomes 8.6 a smaller patch but still a patch. 3 patches every 12 months post expansion.


IF DT = ARR, 8.0 = HW -> 3 Jobs (2 at launch and 1 job for 8.4 not a limited one)

7 or 8 zones - instead of 6, 1 may be more of a smaller fun social end-game hub


-Battlepass type activity (older rewards mixed with recoloured cosmetics to incentivise older content) more casual friendly too.
-UI update
+ More sidequests, Hildi plus something new to at least show they're doing something different
+FF7 Raid series or event collab as part 7-pt3 is due next year
-Raids 8 + 24man + ULT, crafting, relic schedule may generally remain the same

If anything, a tigher patch cadence would be very helpful. Moreso a mix up of the schedule, putting deep dungeon or relics earlier in the game to avoid that post expansion lull.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

One that I've noticed is you can see the West Shroud plateau in multiple zones quite clearly despite us not being able to go there {aside from a long gone deleted Feast map that could just as easily be anywhere in the Shroud). It was apparently absolutely wrecked in the Calamity but it's a constant landmark in the distance and just teases me to this day.

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Oh no you completely misunderstood what I meant, let me show you.

In Eastern La Noscea, at the Castrum, there is a gate at the end of the walkable area, past that gate there is a road you can barely see, and a wall structure in the distance, indicating the Castrum goes deep underground, and that the player is just on the outer area of it.

https://i.postimg.cc/m4jBCgGM/image.png

But with flight, you can get much closer than you were supposed to, and the perspective illusion they are trying to enforce shatters, the walls are much, much smaller than they appear from the right angle, and it shows there is nothing past them, just a literal blackened hole in the ground.

https://i.postimg.cc/zztsM3J0/image.png

This is what I mean, and it is legitimately maddening to me, it is clearly something we were never supposed to see, and we can see now thanks to flight, but we still can see, and it ruins a lot of ARR maps to me.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

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OH OH okay. I see.

I think that hole is actually an entrance to the first set of the Coils raid. I hoped on to look and you can fly directly up to it, getting as close as just where you second image cuts off and yes, it's so small!

I never noticed!

To the question "Are we expecting too much for 8.0?"

I believe not. In ARR, they managed to bring back this game alive after a disaster.

Now, the dev team, while they did an amazing stroy in EW, almost killed the game by making it too easy and boring to play. DT had some steps in the right directions, but it's again just them "trying to be safe" and not daring to do new things or to ask too much from the players. They also try to keep a "3 month for patch release" model on a 4-5 months patch release, making players wait and wait for content. Add to that one of the worst story where your character was like just a sidekick, and you get one of the worst and most boring expansion of the history of XIV.

For many players like myself, 8.0 will be the reason if they keep their sub or if they are done for good with XIV. Not only the game has to be good and innovative again, and not just a 50 hours of cutscene where I do nothing, but it also need to have a better calendar, patch release and engaging content on the following patches.

I was forgiving the devs for EW and DT, mostly because of nostalgia of how good the game used to be, but if they fail a 3rd time to deliver, then I'm done with XIV.

So, are we expecting too much? No, we are just expecting the game to be good and fun again, if it's not, we'll simply carry on and play other games.