Overtuned MSQ 4-mans and subpar story ends 12-year journey

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Originally Posted by sylphlands

you people are cruel. people have been bringing up these issues for a while now and the only response you can ever give is, "well sorry you're too bad at the game you've played and paid for for years, you should unsub and go play something made for idiot babies with no motor skills."

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I mean..... you got to level 15. You saw your first AOE marker. Learned how to dodge it, hopefully. Not a big deal if you didn't. The next few dungeons should get the hint across right?

Now you're level 100 and..... you.... still can't stay out of an AOE marker on the floor..... 70-200+ hours later....? And 30-some odd dungeons later?

Okay I'll be nice and pretend-assume they level skipped. How'd you get to the level 100 Expert dungeons then and still not know what basic mechanics looks like? You got the 91 dungeon. The 93 dungeon. The 95 dungeon. The first trial of Dawntrail. The 97 dungeon. The 99 dungeon. The second trial. The first level 100 dungeon. The third trial....?

It's not people being cruel. It's reality. Don't be a fish complaining that water is wet.

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Originally Posted by sylphlands

you people are cruel. people have been bringing up these issues for a while now and the only response you can ever give is, "well sorry you're too bad at the game you've played and paid for for years, you should unsub and go play something made for idiot babies with no motor skills."

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What do you make of this though? In this post I proved you can ignore the worst mechanics in a recent dungeon and survive all of them:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6735081

The "fast pace" is an illusion and someone can just rez you if it goes wrong or you don't want to play a tank.

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Originally Posted by sylphlands

you people are cruel. people have been bringing up these issues for a while now and the only response you can ever give is, "well sorry you're too bad at the game you've played and paid for for years, you should unsub and go play something made for idiot babies with no motor skills."

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Then I'll bring a better one:

If you die trying to learn a mechanic, no one cares and neither should you. You get back up, you go at the mechanic and die as many times as it takes until you catch the rythm of the fight. Deaths are inconsequential. The things that matter most are getting the "Duty Complete" to appear on the screen, trying to play to the best of your ability and be willing to learn, whether it is from your own mistakes and people's advice.

If you get frustrated, go outside and breath some fresh air. If you think it's impossible, you're skipping one of the previous tenets. You think "hardcore" raiders clear Savage because they're just that good? Wrong. They clear raids because they practice and die as many time as it takes until they learn the fights well enough to clear them. And if it works for Savage, it definitely will work for a MSQ dungeon.

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Originally Posted by BokoToloko

Then I'll bring a better one:

If you die trying to learn a mechanic, no one cares and neither should you. You get back up, you go at the mechanic and die as many times as it takes until you catch the rythm of the fight. Deaths are inconsequential. The things that matter most are getting the "Duty Complete" to appear on the screen, trying to play to the best of your ability and be willing to learn, whether it is from your own mistakes and people's advice.

If you get frustrated, go outside and breath some fresh air. If you think it's impossible, you're skipping one of the previous tenets. You think "hardcore" raiders clear Savage because they're just that good? Wrong. They clear raids because they practice and die as many time as it takes until they learn the fights well enough to clear them. And if it works for Savage, it definitely will work for a MSQ dungeon.

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Yep, my savage group has been raiding the new raid since week one and we only cleared the 4th savage a few weeks ago. 6 hours of dying over and over again every single week until we cleared. Nobody complained it was too hard. We enjoyed the fights and eachothers company and were happy when we finally overcame the challenge.

To be clear, this is a 15 week clear - ~90 hours to complete it.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I'd love it if the dungeons weren't tied to the story and the gameplay part was just done with solo instances.

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That didnt workout in the past cos folks would either ignore it/never unlock it or those joined in late never knew they existed. Whens the last time you got nevereap on your roulettes?

There's a lot of words being thrown around in this thread, but I really have to ask. Has anyone so far actually been incapable of completing a dungeon in Dawntrail? Has anyone had progress come to a dead stop because they simply cannot get past a duty finder boss?

I get the desire for something to be easier because you're having a hard time with it, but gatekeeping is another thing entirely. If we're going to throw around that word I need to know there is a portion of the player base who are actually being stopped in their tracks and cannot move on.

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Originally Posted by jonimated

There's a lot of words being thrown around in this thread, but I really have to ask. Has anyone so far actually been incapable of completing a dungeon in Dawntrail? Has anyone had progress come to a dead stop because they simply cannot get past a duty finder boss?

I get the desire for something to be easier because you're having a hard time with it, but gatekeeping is another thing entirely. If we're going to throw around that word I need to know there is a portion of the player base who are actually being stopped in their tracks and cannot move on.

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Died to a handful of the bosses. Reasoned I did something wrong. Paid more attention to when I was taking damage. Figured it out. Then I beat bosses without dying.

I think the 7.3 dungeon was a bit on the hard side for an MSQ duty, but only a bit.

I did it as a dps with duty support. I still don't know what I was doing wrong on the first boss (what I thought were going to be safe spots just weren't). The second boss required some practice because there's not much time to decide where is going to be safe (I also wasted a lot of time by not noticing something else I had to do - an easy mistake to make when you're so focused on avoiding damage). The third boss, I'm still not sure what the tells were supposed to be. Maybe it was obvious? I was a bit tired of it by then anyway.

Being able to do it with npcs definitely made it less stressful than having to die a lot in front of a group. There's the opportunity to learn at your own pace and you can follow the npcs if you get stuck - so in a sense there's already one way to make it easier. I can understand the second boss being a sticking point for some people. They should offer the echo or some auto-raises for that boss.

I got through in about 50-60 minutes total, which is fine in the grand scheme of things. I guess I'd figure it all out if I was going to do it again, but for people who'll only do it once for msq I think it's a bit long and confusing (like the original castrum!). I don't think msq duties should be difficult. msq is where easy content should sit, with standard tells for everything and a more cinematic feel, so you can play your part for a while then carry on and enjoy the story (or get it over with, in this case). However there should be more options that are somewhere between msq and extreme and I genuinely hope this is the void that "quantum" will fill in the long term. Or else they need to add more optional, hard mode dungeons. This is what they need to be thinking about for 8.0 if they want content for everyone to enjoy.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

Died to a handful of the bosses. Reasoned I did something wrong. Paid more attention to when I was taking damage. Figured it out. Then I beat bosses without dying.

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DT dungeon bosses that I have seen kill many many MANY people:

* Last boss of Skydeep Cenote
* First boss of Alexandria
* First boss of Tender Valley
* First boss of Strayborough
* Last boss of Yuweyawata

And all of those got me a couple times too. I would say I've definitely been flattened by dungeons more often in Dawntrail than in Endwalker or before, and that is not a bad thing

Not sure how someone who played the game for 12+ years can think that a dungeon boss is overtuned?

DPS-Boss has no DPS-Check.
Tank-Boss has no real Tankbuster or mitigation checks. Silence+25s CD is enough to take less than 30% in crafted gear.
Healer-Boss has no HP and falls after it feels like 20 Glares. Enough room to cast some GCD heals if needed.
Dodging telegraphed AOE's shouldnt be an issue at lvl 100, hundreds or thousands of dungeon runs and 12 years of experience imo.

The Dungeon isnt any harder than Aurum Vale, The Vault, The Burn, Dead Ends on release to name a few.

For those continuing to dunk on OP without actually reading the thread, they came back a short time later and cleared it (see below), pretty much exactly like the OP of the other recent thread on this same topic.

I think that's the actual root of the issue some people are experiencing with the modest difficulty increase in DT. When presented with a challenge it's easy to get frustrated and throw your hands up and declare that it's impossible. Then once you calm down, clear your head, and practice a bit more (or just get help from other players), you find out that it's not actually the end of the world.

As abrasive as these threads can seem, I don't think it helps anything to tell the OP that they're stupid and should quit the game right out of the gate. Some of the more notorious posters on this topic are definitely a lost cause but others are probably just feeling angry and embarrassed in the moment when they make these posts. It would be better to give them the benefit of the doubt at first and try to help them figure out what the issue is rather than just pop off on them immediately.

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Originally Posted by AlienDiplomat

UPDATE: I switched to my WAR and ran this with Duty Support NPCs and was able to clear it without too much difficulty.

Maybe I was unluck in duty finder but everything seemed way easier running with NPCs. It could also be that WAR has so much self healing and group support that I felt more in control of the situation. Plus taking it slower helped. Bonus as well, I was able to read the lore journals everyone always rushes past. The story behind this place was actually kind of interesting. The whole thing gave me vibes from old school Final Fantasy.

Part of it was also running a couple of my alts through DT 7.0 quest recently. I think talking to Wuk Lamat so much actually caused me a sort of brain damage that soured me on every other aspect of the game.

I will keep pushing through the post patches and see if I can catch up to 7.3.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

For those continuing to dunk on OP without actually reading the thread, they came back a short time later and cleared it (see below), pretty much exactly like the OP of the other recent thread on this same topic.

I think that's the actual root of the issue some people are experiencing with the modest difficulty increase in DT. When presented with a challenge it's easy to get frustrated and throw your hands up and declare that it's impossible. Then once you calm down, clear your head, and practice a bit more (or just get help from other players), you find out that it's not actually the end of the world.

As abrasive as these threads can seem, I don't think it helps anything to tell the OP that they're stupid and should quit the game right out of the gate. Some of the more notorious posters on this topic are definitely a lost cause but others are probably just feeling angry and embarrassed in the moment when they make these posts. It would be better to give them the benefit of the doubt at first and try to help them figure out what the issue is rather than just pop off on them immediately.

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So OP made a sizeable wall of text because they got frustrated over a dungeon and how it being "overtuned" pushed them to stop playing after 12 years only to find out it was actually no biggie next day?

The levels of hyperbole check out for a FFXIV forum poster, I guess.

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

* Last boss of Skydeep Cenote
* First boss of Alexandria
* First boss of Tender Valley
* First boss of Strayborough
* Last boss of Yuweyawata

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I mean sure, but I've seen people die a lot to different bosses in those same dungeons:

* Last boss of Alexandria
* Last boss of Tender Valley
* Last boss of Stayborough
* Second boss of Yuweyawata

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

For those continuing to dunk on OP without actually reading the thread, they came back a short time later and cleared it (see below), pretty much exactly like the OP of the other recent thread on this same topic.

I think that's the actual root of the issue some people are experiencing with the modest difficulty increase in DT. When presented with a challenge it's easy to get frustrated and throw your hands up and declare that it's impossible. Then once you calm down, clear your head, and practice a bit more (or just get help from other players), you find out that it's not actually the end of the world.

As abrasive as these threads can seem, I don't think it helps anything to tell the OP that they're stupid and should quit the game right out of the gate. Some of the more notorious posters on this topic are definitely a lost cause but others are probably just feeling angry and embarrassed in the moment when they make these posts. It would be better to give them the benefit of the doubt at first and try to help them figure out what the issue is rather than just pop off on them immediately.

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Wait a minute. Are you saying if they had just stopped to think before jumping to extreme conclusions they would have been fine and also not wasted all our time? Yes that sounds on brand.

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Originally Posted by BokoToloko

So OP made a sizeable wall of text because they got frustrated over a dungeon and how it being "overtuned" pushed them to stop playing after 12 years only to find out it was actually no biggie next day?

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lol pretty much

There has been nothing wrong with the tuning of MSQ dungeons. Please continue experimenting and don't be afraid of challenging the players.

1) Make base df dungeons on difficulty, im talking edging on EX, double the tome reward and increase minion/furniture drop rate in them.
2) Ease difficulty in NPC versions of dungeons, have option to run with at least duos.
3) (Optional) If there really is an issue with "cost, dev power, time" get rid of variation/criterion and bring back HM dungeons, make them savage equivalent have them drop aug tome upgrade mats or gear equivalent to aug tome.

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Originally Posted by Tidrek

There has been nothing wrong with the tuning of MSQ dungeons. Please continue experimenting and don't be afraid of challenging the players.

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Somethingsomething that's toxic I bet you only raid ultimates!!!!!!!1!

(This is meant to be sarcastic)

Dungeon content in DT is great and more reactionary than previous msq content! I can't think of many one-shot mechanics in DT dungeons, but a lot of EW dungeons would have 5-7 aoes going off at once, so I personally feel EW dungeons were more "one-shotty", if you do get hit by a mechanic. DT dungeons aren't overtuned by any means.

I sincerely apologize for this post being full of bitterness before.

I tried to tone it down. I've been dealing with a lot lately, losing my dad and little brother in rapid succession and being generally not in a very happy place mentally. But that is no reason to be rude or disrespectful. I love FFXIV and everyone involved and it deserves better.

One thing I thought that might help the situation...

Add difficulty filters to the duty finder.

Let people manually de-select hard modes when queueing for random dungeons. Also, the ability to exclude specific dungeons would be helpful. That way, people could still get the daily roulette bonus but not have to worry about doing more difficult content when they don't have time/energy. This would also free up SE to add more of these type of mechanics for people that want them.

Additionally, icons could be added to the "looking for x" bonus on roulettes indicating that to get those bonuses, you would need to allow certain filters. Or, remove them if the current groups looking for members do not match your own filters (so the bonus is greyed out unless you de-select the necessary filters).

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Originally Posted by AlienDiplomat

Add difficulty filters to the duty finder.

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I agree. I've thought this for a long time. I mean, originally I was thinking a slider to vote and make a dungeon harder for more rewards but given threads like this maybe there should be an easier option too like no vulns and a 99% reduction in damage for 1% of the rewards (EXP/tomestones/gil).

Instead we got variant and criterion as a separate concept. Now that they are interested in making content in general scale in difficulty, maybe they will finally think of something like this.

It would be desirable to just select difficulties in advance so you're matched with others that are interested in it, but I think they do not want to over-complicate and divide the matching system.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I agree. I've thought this for a long time. I mean, originally I was thinking a slider to vote and make a dungeon harder for more rewards but given threads like this maybe there should be an easier option too like no vulns and a 99% reduction in damage for 1% of the rewards (EXP/tomestones/gil).

Instead we got variant and criterion as a separate concept. Now that they are interested in making content in general scale in difficulty, maybe they will finally think of something like this.

It would be desirable to just select difficulties in advance so you're matched with others that are interested in it, but I think they do not want to over-complicate and divide the matching system.

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Simple problems have simple solutions.

Rational thinking is "oh, I died, let me figure out how that happened and avoid it!"

So we ignore people who don't have this line of thinking. Keep making dungeons like Meso Terminal. Maybe a little bit harder. A little bit. And if somebody comes along with a thought process other than this, we just say; "get over it."

Dunno about that. Even though my reaction has slowed down with age all dungeons except сriterion seem super simple to me.

i wonder how often people try it before they say its too difficult.
if you dont know what to look out for and only seeing a bunch of visual effect its normal to miss stuff.

i wish this game was like the dark souls games

I'm sorry that you're struggling but the difficulty currently is really a non-issue. And definitely not worthy of an entire rant. Yuweyawata Station in particular didn't even stand out as very difficult to me, aside from the second boss with the run-through-the-path-with-the-spinny-thing mechanic. Sure you might wipe a few times but you'll eventually get there. I'd rather have that than have content that is so non-challenging that you can first try everything without much of a problem.

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Originally Posted by Bibine_Bine

I'm sorry that you're struggling but the difficulty currently is really a non-issue. And definitely not worthy of an entire rant. Yuweyawata Station in particular didn't even stand out as very difficult to me, aside from the second boss with the run-through-the-path-with-the-spinny-thing mechanic. Sure you might wipe a few times but you'll eventually get there. I'd rather have that than have content that is so non-challenging that you can first try everything without much of a problem.

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Difficulty is highly subjective, and I can say that most bosses in yuweyawata are easily at around the difficulty of extreme trials in past expansions. Hell, the final boss has mechanics straight from P5S. Literal carbon copies of savage mechanics.

This is the fundamental problem with FFXIV's shift in difficulty. Yes, they lowered the difficulty of jobs. However, they also raised the difficulty of fights. And there are many people who either liked the old fight design, or needed easier jobs in the older easier fights, and are now being pushed out of content they used to be able to do.

Hell, this shift in difficulty has massively raised the difficulty of CDPS and healers a lot more than it has the other 3 roles, who largely don't have to change anything because the devs forgot how to target classes by role to make fun and interesting mechanics while still allowing something as basic as 3 second cast bars in the game.

Then, on top of that, a lot of mechanics are getting so fast as to break with lag. Every raid in 7.2 is a perfect example of 'breaks because of lag.' At least one mechanic in every fight does this and the only way it doesn't break is if you're personally at a low ping. But the best example is boss 1 of Scareborough Deadwalk. Anyone who had a doll root them from over half the arena away understands why lag matters and why the push for DT's difficulty is objectively bad. When even a ping of 70 feels like crap, a lot of people will quietly quit because the game feels bad or unfair without knowing why.

This is why I will always support Stormblood's model. Easy fights, variable difficulty classes, role-based challenges. You can find a job that everyone of all skill levels enjoyed in stormblood. Want braindead in dungeons? you had rphys or melee or tank on tap. Want a challenge even in dungeons? Stormblood Black Mage had a lot of challenge optimizing stormblood dungeons. SAM did as well if you wanted to min/max. Want to experience the hardest challenge? Try optimizing machinist in literally anything. The class was an actual nightmare of bad design.

The worst dungeon can be made interesting by having a job you enjoy playing and optimizing in it.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Difficulty is highly subjective, and I can say that most bosses in yuweyawata are easily at around the difficulty of extreme trials in past expansions. Hell, the final boss has mechanics straight from P5S. Literal carbon copies of savage mechanics.

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And I can tell you, objectively, this is complete nonsense. At the time of their relevance Titan, Sephirot, Thordan, Ramuh and Ifrit EX are an order of magnitude harder than anything in Yuweyawata. No offense, but you clearly haven't done any of them if you're making this sort of comparison.

You mention people who want easier fights are being phased out. Just play a tank if you're that concerned about failing mechanics. You are nearly invincible. Especially on Warrior. In fact, there is no point in this game's entire history where tanks have been as braindead easy and laughably overpowered for dungeon content as they are right now. You can eat 5+ vulns and tank busters still won't one shot you. Heck, several tanks deliberate eat 2-3 vulns in the current EX because it's that irrelevant for them. They'd rather have their uptime and can just shrug off the damage. A dungeon isn't even close to threatening them. Hence why all but Dark Knight can solo bosses.

As for lag. That has nothing to do with difficulty, but rather poor optimization on SE's part. Lag was present and equally frustrating in Stormblood. Part of why they overhauled Summoner is due to lag which caused their pets to ghost abilities. I'll admit, that first boss in Scareborough has terrible latency, but again difficulty isn't the culprit here. It's SE, and Japan as a whole, refusing to acknowledge how the rest of the world is far more ping reliant than they are. Dumbing down that dungeon isn't the solution because now you just have a boring slog that doesn't do anything. One of the biggest complaints from players of all skill levels is how boring dungeons have been. Yoshida literally said as much when asking JP players what they felt was a problem. At some point, they have to do different things. Faster mechanics is a way to accomplish that without reinventing the wheel.

Scareborough is only a miss because they didn't account for lag, not because the mechanic is fast nor difficult.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Just play a tank if you're that concerned about failing mechanics. You are nearly invincible. Especially on Warrior. In fact, there is no point in this game's entire history where tanks have been as braindead easy and laughably overpowered for dungeon content as they are right now. You can eat 5+ vulns and tank busters still won't one shot you. Heck, several tanks deliberate eat 2-3 vulns in the current EX because it's that irrelevant for them.

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Yep, I've been getting so many tanks who just stand in AoEs and even I was surprised when the medics in the new dungeon can hit them for ~50% of their HP. Usually those AoE barely do more than their autos.

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Originally Posted by AlienDiplomat

I could post you dozens of YouTube videos talking about this problem with DT difficulty uptick in required MSQ dungeons. It is easy enough to do a search. Read the comment section on any of these videos to see how many are frustrated by suddenly being expected to have great ping (when often it is the game itself even if they are on fiber) and to prog through memorization puzzles and raid mechanics in 4-mans required to advance the main base game story quest.

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I'm about as casual of a player as you can get. And I have played all dungeon content mostly day one. There are no SAVAGE or extreme raid mechanics in DT msq dungeons. The only dungeon boss prior to the current dungeon's second boss that was even remotely difficult was the first boss of Alexandria which would punish players with high ping. I cleared all of DT on my Sage as my primary main job for the expansion. I have not stepped foot in savage since Alexander was current savage prog. These dungeons are not too hard. They do require you to pay attention and know your job, even as a casual player. We certainly can argue about server ticks needing to be considered heavier with certain AOE damage, but that's another subject all together. Even on a DPS job I have never spent more than 20 mins on any dungeon in DT, even when learning it. I don't know who you're playing with or grouping up with or what server you are on, but it is absolutely LAUGHABLE that you are calling DT dungeons savage. And that's coming from a player who's played since 2.0 PS3 beta herself. You're forgetting how many bosses and raids in ARR that used to have ZERO telegraphs while healers had to stance dance. At this point I've run through the newest dungeon and already had an instance when I queued in where everyone died on the 2nd boss and a DARK KNIGHT soloed that boss fight. If you have played as long as you have, could it be possible that after 12 years your personal age and reaction time may be part of the issue? I'm 44, I fully recognize my reaction time to stuff isn't what it used to be which is why I don't mess with ACTUAL extreme and savage content and just stick to MSQ, normal raids and 24 mans. While there is a lot of issues with DT, the increase in boss difficulty actually has made things more interesting after how brain dead easy SHB and EW dungeons were.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Difficulty is highly subjective, and I can say that most bosses in yuweyawata are easily at around the difficulty of extreme trials in past expansions.

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The only way this could be true is if you got lucky. See, SE used to test certain job roles more than others depending on the fight. Some fights were super challenging for the tank, but easy for the DPS. Others were super easy for the tank, but rough for the DPS and healers. And then some had a lot of reliance on the healer. Of course, SE started to move away from that over time, and made us all do the same mechanics in a lot of fights, tanks have lots of self-heals, etc.

So, if you experienced an extreme trial where your job role was the "easy" role in that fight, I could see you potentially making that argument. Bismarck as a DPS for example, where if you just dodge and stay spread you're probably good. Innocence as a tank where, quite frankly, as long as you can tankswap you can mostly just eat vulns (however, other roles often had deaths despite the ease of the fight).

But that's the point, isn't it? The "easy" extreme trials we are referencing you would generally clear them pretty quick, but with some vulns and deaths - exactly like can happen in dungeons.

Even if they are like miniature Extreme fights, maybe it's because Extreme is not usually this super hard and scary thing people think it is - take the latest Unreal, an old Extreme from Stormblood, which you can go from fresh prog to clear in 1 pull, despite vulns, damage downs and mistakes. A common story for a lot (not all) of the Unreals we've had actually.

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Hell, the final boss has mechanics straight from P5S. Literal carbon copies of savage mechanics.

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I assume you mean the part where the arena leaves small pockets of safespots due to there being puddles all around the arena. It's still nothing like P5S because it's personal responsibility, whereas 1 person getting it wrong could doom the party in P5S. It's therefore safe to just find a safe spot without coordinating ahead of time NW/SE for example. Also, if you understand snapshotting at all, there's a moment to spread after the puddles disappear so you don't overlap an AoE with someone that chose the same safe spot.

They also scaled the fight in a way that tanks can solo it, a good healer can hold it together, I think I even ate a tank buster on a DPS by using mit, addle and a healer shield, something that wouldn't happen in Savage. Generally I've not normally seen any issue in the fight even if people occasionally died to it.

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are now being pushed out of content they used to be able to do.

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Maybe it's just that they are afraid of deaths and vuln stacks and have a pressing need for a perfect, flawless run? Even I die or get a vuln stack occasionally, especially on a DPS job. I just get a rez or the rest of the party finish the fight and it's no big deal.

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this shift in difficulty has massively raised the difficulty of CDPS and healers a lot more than it has the other 3 roles

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If I had to compare healer difficulty now to the past, I'd have to say that healers used to be harder. And they were still easy if you got over the anxiety of someone potentially dying on your watch. In fact, I dare say I don't need to heal much at all, if at all, when healing Expert. Why don't we use some "past" examples of tough fights for a healer?

The Vault's final fight, where you had to dodge waves of marching soldiers, break a tether by running away, all while healing not only the raid wides, but the fact most other people got hit by mechanics. It was easy to get hit yourself during that, or not focus on splitting the tether due to healing. The Burn, which has you triangulating the safe spot, not to mention be rough in the raid-wide AoE department and often catching people with devastating ice vulns. First fight in The Dead Ends because of healer needing to be around when someone gets hit and needs Esuna.

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interesting mechanics while still allowing something as basic as 3 second cast bars in the game.

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These still usually happen even if there isn't an actual cast bar. Once you've done the fight and know to expect it, you can just imagine the cast bar.

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But the best example is boss 1 of Scareborough Deadwalk. Anyone who had a doll root them from over half the arena away understands why lag matters

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I often get hit by it. Despite having a high ping, I found the solution to the mechanic is rather to just not be in their path. Act like where they are facing is a line AoE. That tends to work for me so if I get hit it's just due to the sheer number of them or them spawning at an unfortunate location/direction, or honestly just not wanting to put in that amount of effort to constantly dodge them and greeding instead.

But I feel like you're using the one and only problematic mechanic in DT to make a point about the entire expansion's direction, because I can't think of any other examples like that.

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When even a ping of 70 feels like crap, a lot of people will quietly quit because the game feels bad or unfair without knowing why.

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I agree that a lot of people will quit but not necessarily just due to the difficulty, but rather due to how unpolished the game feels in certain areas. I feel like SE is committed to quality but this ultimately only gets reflected in the visual aspects of the game, such as the environment or the music, because anything involving programming seems to be riddled with problems - such as not having an FC finder in the game itself, arbitrary limits that are insufficient, snapshotting, bloated menus, etc.

I feel like if people would quit because of Dawntrail dungeons then they'd probably quit over The Vault, Bardam's Mettle, Doma Castle, Ala Mhigo, The Burn, Ghimlyt Dark, Holminster Switch, Malikah's Well, Mt. Gulg, Amaurot, Grand Cosmos, Anamnesis, Heroes' Gauntlet, all of which have bosses that I see give trouble to or kill first time sprouts regularly. The Vault is kinda a joke at this point due to DPS changes but I could see it having put people off in the past.

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You can find a job that everyone of all skill levels enjoyed in stormblood.

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While true, many people want to play the job they like the aesthetic of, so I think job difficulty sliders would solve that.

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The worst dungeon can be made interesting by having a job you enjoy playing and optimizing in it.

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True and I don't necessarily need the dungeons to be fast-paced or anything. But we did have people coming to the forums for years saying "dungeons are too easy", so I guess this is the response. It's why players need to articulate what they actually want better. If they want dungeons to be less repetitive, they should say that, rather than saying "they are too easy".

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Difficulty is highly subjective

-snip-

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You're right. And because you're right, I say your other points are nonsense because of their subjectivity.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Want to experience the hardest challenge? Try optimizing machinist in literally anything. The class was an actual nightmare of bad design.

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I would have liked the post, but sorry it's because of takes like that we got the butchered mess we now have had since SHB. And next expansion it was SMN.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Just play a tank if you're that concerned about failing mechanics. You are nearly invincible. Especially on Warrior. In fact, there is no point in this game's entire history where tanks have been as braindead easy and laughably overpowered for dungeon content as they are right now. You can eat 5+ vulns and tank busters still won't one shot you. Heck, several tanks deliberate eat 2-3 vulns in the current EX because it's that irrelevant for them. They'd rather have their uptime and can just shrug off the damage. A dungeon isn't even close to threatening them. Hence why all but Dark Knight can solo bosses.

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And this is a good thing for the health of the combat system how exactly?

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Then, on top of that, a lot of mechanics are getting so fast as to break with lag. Every raid in 7.2 is a perfect example of 'breaks because of lag.' At least one mechanic in every fight does this and the only way it doesn't break is if you're personally at a low ping. But the best example is boss 1 of Scareborough Deadwalk. Anyone who had a doll root them from over half the arena away understands why lag matters and why the push for DT's difficulty is objectively bad. When even a ping of 70 feels like crap, a lot of people will quietly quit because the game feels bad or unfair without knowing why.

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The proper word that you are looking for is Snapshot. They absolutely did introduce a lot more snapshot mechanics where you have to look at the boss's castbar timer and not just wait for a visual que to move out.

Which is absolutely a move in the right direction; however, people are surprised by it because in older content, that is heavily underutilized.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Then, on top of that, a lot of mechanics are getting so fast as to break with lag. Every raid in 7.2 is a perfect example of 'breaks because of lag.' At least one mechanic in every fight does this and the only way it doesn't break is if you're personally at a low ping.

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I wouldn't say fights in this game are completely broken at high ping, they just need to be approached differently and more carefully - Nothing as game-breaking as you seem to be implying.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

But the best example is boss 1 of Scareborough Deadwalk. Anyone who had a doll root them from over half the arena away understands why lag matters and why the push for DT's difficulty is objectively bad.

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"Dawntrail should be more challenging" and "Square Enix should fix their netcode" are statements that can and should coexist. As much as I hate getting snagged by those dolls from a mile away, I don't think dungeons are coming even close to becoming completely broken or unclearable on high ping as someone with high ping and awful internet myself.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

When even a ping of 70 feels like crap, a lot of people will quietly quit because the game feels bad or unfair without knowing why.

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Trust me, people know exactly what and who to blame when they get snapshotted by something they shouldn't have, and are very quick to do so.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

They absolutely did introduce a lot more snapshot mechanics where you have to look at the boss's castbar timer and not just wait for a visual que to move out.

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I don't agree with OP but they do happen to be describing a mechanic where staring at the cast bar won't do you any good and you absolutely just have to react to the moving parts. This is another type of mechanic that seems to be getting more use this expansion, but the hitboxes and execution can be a bit... Faulty. Hitboxes always feel too big/small/snapshotty/not snapshotty enough depending on the fight.