#WukLamatMustDie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nitelancer

She would have been a sympathetic character if she was suddenly assassinated in public by Zoraal Ja at her crowning ceremony. The story could then be about helping Koana, Bakool Ja Ja, and Galool Ja Ja to get revenge and reclaim Tuliyolal from Zoraal Ja and his army. The story could still tie in with Sphene and the Alexandrians because they are supplying him with an army and technology. Bakool and Galool would sacrifice themselves before the end to help us secure victory. But the victory is bittersweet, for although Koana becomes the Dawnservent, all his family members have died.

---

That would have been so good and yes Koana should be the Dawnservent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

Sure, if they make a new more compelling arc, why not?

---

Why not you ask?

- Because I think it's kinda insane to ask a character who is already given far more screen time then any other char even MORE screen time.

- Because "Black Hole Sue" bad writing does not affect only her own character, she also deprived resource that could have been used on other character.

- Because even if the writer can fix her, that means more resource gonna have to be spent on her, more screen time to be given to her at the cost of other characters.

- Because we still have Krile, Koana, Erenville, or even Bakool Ja Ja who are still desperate needing more developments and exposure, all of who were short change by Wuk Lamat.

And if none of that answer satisfy you, than I'll ask you one question in return after you look at the follow image again:

https://i.imgur.com/rvXTMNX.jpeg


So tell me, what is your argument about giving a character like Wuk Lamat even more time and attention? The only possible explanation I can think of is "sunk cost fallacy".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

Why not you ask?

- Because I think it's kinda insane to ask a character who is already given far more screen time then any other char even MORE screen time.

- Because "Black Hole Sue" bad writing does not affect only her own character, she also deprived resource that could have been used on other character.

- Because even if the writer can fix her, that means more resource gonna have to be spent on her, more screen time to be given to her at the cost of other characters.

- Because we still have Krile, Koana, Erenville, or even Bakool Ja Ja who are still desperate needing more developments and exposure, all of who were short change by Wuk Lamat.

And if none of that answer satisfy you, than I'll ask you one question in return after you look at the follow image again:

https://i.imgur.com/rvXTMNX.jpeg


So tell me, what is your argument about giving a character like Wuk Lamat even more time and attention? The only possible explanation I can think of is "sunk cost fallacy".

---

Well this is literally the brain rot i am talking about. Imagine going so far as to search for lines spoken as evidence to hate a character of a game, like it's hard to take it seriously.

I think you guys are making a big deal out of nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Not related to Wuk Lamat, but I wonder if OP and everyone who believed we were going to get a "vacation" and a "low-stakes adventure" were the same people who completely misunderstood and thought that we were going to go around kicking puppies and being evil in Shadowbringers.

Not sure how that would even be compelling enough to draw people for a whole expansion.

---

It was a low stakes adventure because wuk had everything under control as we saw. Just took some small powers scaling bullshit moments but we got there pretty fast at around lvl 94. After this it was smooth sailing with us cheerleading wuk Lamat and the entire plate of bad ideas that don’t get punished. Also don’t forget we didn’t find the gold city it was already found we just had to follow some 80 years old trail.

Like let’s be real here people says she’s Naruto with the talk no jutsu but ffs even naruto had more character development and actual struggles then this thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

Why not you ask?

- Because I think it's kinda insane to ask a character who is already given far more screen time then any other char even MORE screen time.

- Because "Black Hole Sue" bad writing does not affect only her own character, she also deprived resource that could have been used on other character.

- Because even if the writer can fix her, that means more resource gonna have to be spent on her, more screen time to be given to her at the cost of other characters.

- Because we still have Krile, Koana, Erenville, or even Bakool Ja Ja who are still desperate needing more developments and exposure, all of who were short change by Wuk Lamat.

And if none of that answer satisfy you, than I'll ask you one question in return after you look at the follow image again:

https://i.imgur.com/rvXTMNX.jpeg


So tell me, what is your argument about giving a character like Wuk Lamat even more time and attention? The only possible explanation I can think of is "sunk cost fallacy".

---

Am I the only one that felt like Y'Shtola kinda came out of nowhere in this as well?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

Well this is literally the brain rot i am talking about. Imagine going so far as to search for lines spoken as evidence to hate a character of a game, like it's hard to take it seriously.

I think you guys are making a big deal out of nothing.

---

You misunderstood, the chart wasn't for me. It was for you. I already know the WL had an suffocating amount of screen time as I went through the MSQ before I even looked at this chart, but you sound like someone oblivious to that. Also I didn't know providing evidence to backup one's claim in an argument counted as brain rot.

And look, you asked me a question, I gave you an answer. Doesn't sound you like it but it was an honest answer to the best of my ability. But I see you decided to avoid giving an answer in good faith and just dodge it by throwing random insult.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

I wonder if the people who support this thread just wake up every day angry at some videogame character cuz they weren't written like they wanted it.

---

Well I’m more angry that the Scions lose brain mass in proximity too wuk Lamat. Like you have a competent cast of people that can mentor you with a massive fond of knowledge but they become head pat and hug giver so wuk can have here own independent journey we’re the grass is always green and no one can challenge bad ideas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

Well this is literally the brain rot i am talking about. Imagine going so far as to search for lines spoken as evidence to hate a character of a game, like it's hard to take it seriously.

I think you guys are making a big deal out of nothing.

---

Wuk already has 30+ hours of screen time and the longer she was in focus the worse the character becomes. They had entire expansion start to write the character actually good and they did jack all and made it even worse. Like people shit on lyse writing but wuk is a volcano of bad writing in comparison like miles and miles ahead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

Well this is literally the brain rot i am talking about. Imagine going so far as to search for lines spoken as evidence to hate a character of a game, like it's hard to take it seriously.

---

Insulting people isn't the most effective way to refute actual hard data on how bad the writing was.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

Well this is literally the brain rot i am talking about. Imagine going so far as to search for lines spoken as evidence to hate a character of a game, like it's hard to take it seriously.

I think you guys are making a big deal out of nothing.

---

"How dare you show evidence of what you claim !!" is basically what your post means just for your information

If people dont post proof, yall call it fake and lies, and when people have proof of what they claim, yall say people search too much

pick one at some point

Here's my pitch:

We make a spinoff action title, turn Wuk into a cyborg ninja and she fights meme dispensers camouflaging as characters with a kickass soundtrack.

We call it Dawntrail: REVENGEANCE.

Citizens, perhaps Wuk Lamat can come back as a villain so the WoL can be justified in killing her thus removing her from the story entirely. We get a story that will be better than the Dawntrail MSQ and everyone will be happy that Wuk is dead.



Remember the fallen.

I don't think she needs to be killed or outright removed from the story but I do think her character could use some work... and honestly a character who starts out as a member of our party but ends up becoming the villain is something I'd like to see them do.

https://i.gyazo.com/93990cba820d8d9b...f29f0a85da.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

I mean I can go here and debate you on whethever she had character growth or not, but that's not the point I am trying to make. This weird circlejerk you guys have around hating a single character is off-putting, it's pure brainrot. How often do we have to make posts about hating a character and nodding to each other and keep investing in fanning the flames?

Sure, if they make a new more compelling arc, why not? I don't have a hate boner for her.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

Well this is literally the brain rot i am talking about. Imagine going so far as to search for lines spoken as evidence to hate a character of a game, like it's hard to take it seriously.

I think you guys are making a big deal out of nothing.

---

You have pretty much just call people who have grievances with Wuk Lamat names, and then when they give you the reason with proof you wave it away. You cover your ears and spout insults towards them.

From the Krile thread, we know that she got robbed because there was so much emphasis on Wuk Lamat. From the voice thread, we know that the EN voice and fake is insufferable and makes the experience worse. From the story thread, we know that the story revolves way too much around her that she takes up even the sidequests and levequests.

Why do Wuk lovers only know how to insult people and call them names? Do you guys lack the ability to argue? Calling people names isn't an arguement. Also, people shouldn't suffer in silence. If people are unhappy then they have the right to voice that they're unhappy. People love the game, that's why they're giving their critics.

“FFXIV is an MMO, but before that it’s an RPG, and before that it’s a Final Fantasy game,” Yoshida states firmly. “At the heart of that rests a focus on making the main scenario something that players care about. We have spent a huge amount of time making sure that the story is as vital to this game as it is to other numbered Final Fantasy titles.”

Source: YoshiP Interview

I dont want her to die, that be too much to be honest

Just lessen her role by 90% like every other gridania limsa and uldah leader and iam good

Wuk lamat greets the Wol only to find it wasn't the wol but the ascian hades....he knew he left a plot undone as he prepared to wipe wuk lamat from existence the power of wuk lamat love for her ppl and her country brought forth power unseen, with one mighty blow wuk lamat tore a sunder hole in emet selch...

Meanwhile my Wol is watching this nodding.
But deep down she cries knowing emet selch failed....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voidmage

Agree.
I think the biggest question Yoshida and his devs need to ask themselves is:
“For whom do we want to make FF14 the next ten years?”

If the answer is
“for the fans and players from all those years before” then they need to go back to the old worldview of Etherys.
It was gritty, it was grey but with an underlying message of “we can overcome this if we work together “
I don’t say they shouldn’t shake things up and take risks but there are other places to do that like sidequests or Raid storylines.

If the answer is
“for new players and a younger audience” then they have to spell that out clear and open so everyone knows what to expect and if they should quit or if they are ready to go along that new direction.

Can both sides swap? Yes.
A longtime fan can still like the DT story telling and a new fan can come in because of DT but still like the old stories better.
I would think though that the majority has their view and expectations and don’t really want to stray from it.

The writing can be criticized and it deserves it but over everything there sit the higher ups like Yoshida.
This direction ultimately comes from him and his team and I don’t believe he didn’t knew what this expansion is.
He gave his ok probably in best faith and really thinking this would be the correct way.

FF14 was always a game with shonen tendencies but even Shonen can have a deeper and better writing than DT and it has proven that before.

---

With everything you said I agree. But that horrible writing needs to go. There nothing wrong with introducing new character but when the new character is so insufferable an annoying it bothers the proggression. Honestly confused why this was not about krile but more wuk lamat. The first half could have been dedicated to wuk. 2nd half could have been dedicated to krile and erenville....but nope terrible writing gets in the way.

Too many replies to quote, but on the central point

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ViaDesperare

You have pretty much just call people who have grievances with Wuk Lamat names, and then when they give you the reason with proof you wave it away. You cover your ears and spout insults towards them.

---

So as I said, I never felt strongly about Wuk Lamat, but it's hard to argue with people who are looking at data, and working back from a conclusion about how they FELT about a character, and then straight up claim it ruined the expansion for everyone.

And I'm not calling you names, I am saying this is just straight up rotting your brains. It's become a hateful obsession with people echoing each other's opinions, not a willingness to give criticism at all.

look if it the WoL or her comrade suggest to her solution then it make sense it would remove the mary sue element.

there ways as i said to nerf bat Wuk lamar.

remove her for final boss. if you bring in a reincarnation of Sphene so she must take the child back to captial
change the quest for her nurse maid
remove Wuk Lamar for show us were armor is. change some dialog for her tried get us live there. that dialog is silly the WoL is reincarnation of Azem her role that of an Adventurer one could even said the leader of anceint task her to explore Emet Selch consider her the heir to seat of Azem

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Savagelf

change some dialog for her tried get us live there. that dialog is silly the WoL is reincarnation of Azem her role that of an Adventurer one could even said the leader of anceint task her to explore Emet Selch consider her the heir to seat of Azem

---

Why would Wuk Lamat know this? As far as she knows, we're just the person that follows her around, carrying her bags for her.

yes my point exactly and she act like she know everything for example like about reflection or about aether. she didn't even know about arcane focus. the problem of the mary sue the know nothing but in few days they know everything. i thought better if warrior of light travel with Estinin instead. the only reason that scion team up with her was because WoL did. i get her brother is blood thrist guy. yet she not much better i want happiness of my people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

Too many replies to quote, but on the central point



So as I said, I never felt strongly about Wuk Lamat, but it's hard to argue with people who are looking at data, and working back from a conclusion about how they FELT about a character, and then straight up claim it ruined the expansion for everyone.

And I'm not calling you names, I am saying this is just straight up rotting your brains. It's become a hateful obsession with people echoing each other's opinions, not a willingness to give criticism at all.

---

Not really a hateful obsession, just bored. if you read the statement clearly there was never any attempt to literally kill Wuk Lamat, although that is a good option. I basically made this thread just to make noise and let people make noise about their dislike of WL, especially for the story. The tag was just copying the healerstrike thread naming, and the MustDie part can be literal and metaphorical in that you she needs to be gone from the story. If people read things careful, they should've caught on that the statement and reasoning had nothing with her dying and I even said for her to be remove permanently instead. Always make sure to read very carefully. I posted before about doing something so we can be heard and I did just that. Naming convention it really did bring people's eyes to the thread at least.

You have to understand that people aren't happy with the character, in any language, so it's important to do something so the devs know that the character is unliked and must be removed from the story/game. The score is really bad for the game and with the recent Krile stuff, people are unhappy about being lied to, and people can't say anything anywhere without being called a phobe so at least this thread lets them rage in it. Wouldn't want the game to go and be like the Pokemon main series and many would agree.

Wuk Lamat still sucks. English voice acting still sucks. I'm making another thread tomorrow. Keep your culture war grift out of it. SE WILL be constantly reminded that people hate the worst performance in the game. #WukLamatMustDie

I'm seeing that mods started locking threads, huh. Doing damage control? Betting this thread is next. Not allowed to criticize anything about this game after all. FFXIV is 100 percent PERFECT. Dawntrail is PERFECT. Best expansion ever. Not just best ffxiv expansion, nah this is the best expansion in all of gaming, of all time. Wuk Lamar is the best character ever. With the best voice acting ever.

Look forward to seeing more of the same in the patches and following expansions. Why improve something that is literally flawless in every way?

(And just to clarify - we are all aware of the toxic crap that was happening in that one locked thread. But instead of doing their jobs and actually moderating, cleaning up the toxicity and the trolling, we always get the laziest of solutions. Just shut down all discussion, why not.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BakoolJaJa

I'm seeing that mods started locking threads, huh. Doing damage control? Betting this thread is next. Not allowed to criticize anything about this game after all. FFXIV is 100 percent PERFECT. Dawntrail is PERFECT. Best expansion ever. Not just best ffxiv expansion, nah this is the best expansion in all of gaming, of all time. Wuk Lamar is the best character ever. With the best voice acting ever.

Look forward to seeing more of the same in the patches and following expansions. Why improve something that is literally flawless in every way?

(And just to clarify - we are all aware of the toxic crap that was happening in that one locked thread. But instead of doing their jobs and actually moderating, cleaning up the toxicity and the trolling, we always get the laziest of solutions. Just shut down all discussion, why not.)

---

Look at the last time that Mod has posted anything. That will let you know just how often they outright lock threads lol

To be completely fair, that thread lived a week longer than it should have with how insane the posts started getting in there.

It's ok we got like two other threads to meme in.

Wuk Lamat's existence is not the cause of the story being "bad". That's just a character, even if she takes a good part in the story, that can not ruin a story.
Maybe, demand better writing. But a character created by writers is not the issue. Wuk Lamat was created and her story written by people, they didn't "film her", this is not a documental. They could even improve her personality for next patches, her existence is not what ruins a story. Throwing the hate to something virtual which existence and personality is made up is childish.

Dys an sohm in
rohs an kyn ala na
mah Morn Wuk Lamat
sahl djahs afah an!

But honestly I wouldn't mind if Wuk appears as often as Hoary Boulder does.

I can't really disagree that I never want to see Wuk Lamat ever again. I don't even want to see an attempt to rewrite her because then I have to deal with her more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WinterKipu

Dys an sohm in
rohs an kyn ala na
mah Morn Wuk Lamat
sahl djahs afah an!

But honestly I wouldn't mind if Wuk appears as often as Hoary Boulder does.

---

I'd rather just get more Hoary Boulder.

I mean I don't know I would start a thread with a title like this one but uh... Yeah, I never want to see Wuk Lamat ever again. I would certainly rather see Hoary Boulder show up, or even another dumb Wuk Evu moment (please no), than ever see Wuk Lamat. A new Gerugeru (or however you spell that potat capitalist scums name) questline getting shoehorned in would be more welcome. If we can write her out and never deal with her ever again for any reason I can just chalk it up to a crappy experiment that failed and knowing she is alive somewhere is just no concern of mine. I do extend my condolences to Tuliolal however.

I don't really care how I just don't want to see her again haha

Its literally Wuk's story, she hired us to help HER. god forbid you people cant not have the spotlight for less than a second. we got our beach episode with some bombastic fun at the half waypoint, its what Yoshi P said in many interviews after DT was announced. this is not the start of a new large story arc, nor was it meant to have SUPER high stakes. if Wuk never approached us i bet we'd not go to tural until later on by ourselves. we have ties and story beats to hit in other areas like the southern massive continent of miracidia.

I mean, death is extreme...but yeah I really felt the obnoxiousness kicking in at the second half of the story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alfarini

Its literally Wuk's story, she hired us to help HER. god forbid you people cant not have the spotlight for less than a second. we got our beach episode with some bombastic fun at the half waypoint, its what Yoshi P said in many interviews after DT was announced. this is not the start of a new large story arc, nor was it meant to have SUPER high stakes. if Wuk never approached us i bet we'd not go to tural until later on by ourselves. we have ties and story beats to hit in other areas like the southern massive continent of miracidia.

---

Its almost like FFXIV has, traditionally, had the Warrior of Light as its protagonist. And just like in other FFs, we tend to have a group of people around the main character who act as our "party". In XIVs case thats the Scions.

Wuk Lamat suddenly becoming the "Protagonist" and sole focus of an entire expansion might rub some people the wrong way.


Also, I've recently heard that Yoshi-P only said the "Beach episode" bit as a joke. But I personally can't confirm that. And even if he didn't mean it as a joke, we literally don't do anything vacation like during the entire expansion. We have things to do from the second we land in Tulliyollal.

I wish what would have happened is that all those people planted throughout the city that told me "I love Wuk Lamat and soon everyone will, including you!" were actually Sphene plants, designed to get a weak and pointless ruler on the throne. Wuk is then poisoned by tacos she didn't make correctly, and in an attempt to be cured she takes a hot air balloon that ends up crashing, giving her intense motion sickness as she plummets downward into a black hole until she is never seen or heard from again. Then the Smile themesong plays.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alfarini

Its literally Wuk's story, she hired us to help HER. god forbid you people cant not have the spotlight for less than a second. we got our beach episode with some bombastic fun at the half waypoint, its what Yoshi P said in many interviews after DT was announced. this is not the start of a new large story arc, nor was it meant to have SUPER high stakes. if Wuk never approached us i bet we'd not go to tural until later on by ourselves. we have ties and story beats to hit in other areas like the southern massive continent of miracidia.

---

I wonder how people like you still try to hold on to this as an excuse after seeing the reception to Arcadion? The raid story is pretty light comparing to all previous raid. It's a low skate store and the fights are even a bit goffy. Yet the players base welcomed it, that does that tell you? It means players have no problem with a light heart story, if anything Arcadion vibe with what DT claimed to be, far more than the MSq itself did. And the heck is the 2nd half were if not a super high stakes? Yet it still sucked


The problem is never with the kind of story the MSq had, the problem is it sucks at whatever story it's trying to tell. If this team of writers were handed the writing of EndWalker, I seriously doubt they would be capable make something as good as the old team did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alfarini

Its literally Wuk's story, she hired us to help HER. god forbid you people cant not have the spotlight for less than a second. we got our beach episode with some bombastic fun at the half waypoint, its what Yoshi P said in many interviews after DT was announced. this is not the start of a new large story arc, nor was it meant to have SUPER high stakes. if Wuk never approached us i bet we'd not go to tural until later on by ourselves. we have ties and story beats to hit in other areas like the southern massive continent of miracidia.

---

I'd say stopping Sphene from consuming the souls of all people from all shards to power her virtual society is pretty high stakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alfarini

I don't know about you but some levity is nice this time around.

---

Im just going to gloss over you being incredibly rude and just point out this one part of your post.

Did you even play the expansion? The first halfs running jokes were: Wuk Lamat cant do boats or airships and dislikes Alpacas. And Wuk Evus entire character. Oh and the Pelu like to trade. Thats it. Don't forget the decades of Eugenics and dead babies the Mamool dealt with. The second half has to deal with people using the souls of others to keep themselves alive, the moral ramifications of that. Sphene trying to steal the souls of all the shards and the source. What it means to truly be alive, and Zoraal Jas attempted conquering of Etheirys. Outside of some "levity" in Shaaloani, the themes that we deal with in the later half are definitely not bringing "levity" to the story.


Oh and forgive me for expecting the main character of the game to continue being the main character of the game. How foolish of me.