2hr Abilites (Yes Please!)? or (No Thanks!)?

Yes! Finally good news. Job identity, tactical expansion and a cool feature all in one.
2 hours will have their own spot in FFXIV and won't be the same as FFXI, this much is clear. They will probably have more importance due to more instanced and/or timed content.

yes for 2 hour ability

yumi i just stated the cons you stated the positive i wasn't giving false info. Just stating the cons :) there is a pro and con to everything.

Also 2hr did give yoy tactics all it did was addto what you could. Tactics from from using your abilitys in a timely manner (no matter what) to work as a team to defeat something. Meaning letting a tank tank by not opening a fight with a ws as a drk. that is an example of tactics.

Also to the 2 elisist insulting me for no reason whatso ever. You guys never saw me play rdm. I meleed big flipping deal I also sub healed, enfeebled, buffed up, refreshed, nuke, self buffed all w/o needing to rest too much or getting hate. No one ever died from me meleeing. No one ever told me they needed refresh no one ever told me when to do things. I was that well timed. As long as the mob dies in a timely mannor, as long as the party is alive. who the flip cares how a person plays a class. As long as I did what I could to contribute to the party that should matter.

[SIZE="5"]Oh, and yet I still find myself pining for Twenty Two Hour abilities. Alas that this world is mine![/SIZE]

question why do ppl flip out when they read melee rdm?
do you guys assume said melee rdm is JUST meleeing?
Those staves were not truely required not did THAT much. Maybe the +1 set. But it was really better got smn and blms. Proof. is i missed spells with or with out the staves with +mnd and +int /whm or /blm sub. People really put too much stock in gear on that game. If you really pay attention nothing was really ever Leet. Heck I even had kirin osode and really saw no difference in anything as mnk. Mobs had elemental resistences. As well as magical or physical defences. So even a goo gear rdm can still get resisted. Plus even if you get resisted you do get skill ups for recasting. And is how a real good players plays. If you always it your skills don;t improve much since casting is limited. And tbh I never really seen a make or break fight where 2 hrs were a must or really anything. All a fight needs is teamwork and timing.
my proof is me and my ex duoing all 6 primes before abyssea was out.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

[SIZE="5"]Oh, and yet I still find myself pining for Twenty Two Hour abilities. Alas that this world is mine![/SIZE]

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hehe empty trolling, how sad.

I had crap gear an unpopular sub at the time and never 2 houred. did all 6 fights in 4 hoours including traveling. My ex was an elvaan whm so~so gear and i forget his sub. he barely need to heal me. The only time i ever needed to use a 2hr was my monk was monk pulling in caeder mire (everyone else with ranged weapons were to chicken to do it) I ended up soloing an It fly I pulled by accident. My ex was whm then and never had to cure me. I was mnk/nin in crappy gear also. Solo'ed the IT fly got the kill shot on the parties fly. And I didn't really "need " to 2hr it. I mostly did it to spead up the fight.

Child, please remember that no-one, not a single soul, ever asked for your life story. Nor upon receiving it, did we think our lives the richer. In fact, quite the opposite I'm afraid.


Yours Sincerely,

Sir. "Amazing" Gifthorse.

I don't know about 2-hr for recast. They would have to slow down the pace of combat and keep you in the field killing for hours to make 2-hr abilities viable. Only would be useful on an NM fight as of now.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Child, please remember that no-one, not a single soul, ever asked for your life story. Nor upon receiving it, did we think our lives the richer. In fact, quite the opposite I'm afraid.


Yours Sincerely,

Sir. "Amazing" Gifthorse.

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It is my reason NOT to have 2hr or defined classes. Learn to keep up.

Maybe, since they mention to be used once a battle, they thinking something like bloodlust/heroims from WoW.
A self-debuff (on the dude who used) preventing use of the the same skill again until the encounter is over, maybe.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

question why do ppl flip out when they read melee rdm?
do you guys assume said melee rdm is JUST meleeing?
Those staves were not truely required not did THAT much. Maybe the +1 set. But it was really better got smn and blms. Proof. is i missed spells with or with out the staves with +mnd and +int /whm or /blm sub. People really put too much stock in gear on that game. If you really pay attention nothing was really ever Leet. Heck I even had kirin osode and really saw no difference in anything as mnk. Mobs had elemental resistences. As well as magical or physical defences. So even a goo gear rdm can still get resisted. Plus even if you get resisted you do get skill ups for recasting. And is how a real good players plays. If you always it your skills don;t improve much since casting is limited. And tbh I never really seen a make or break fight where 2 hrs were a must or really anything. All a fight needs is teamwork and timing.
my proof is me and my ex duoing all 6 primes before abyssea was out.

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I kind of agree about the satements for the melee RDM. I never really liked the 'no melee RDM' spirit going around in exp party as we could well perform all our tasks while meleing. I mean, is it better to just stay backline watching the screen while doing nothing that check timers on refresh/debuffs and all or do the exact same things while throwing some damage (not that much damage compared to other jobs but still helpfull). So yes, a good RDM could melee and do all of his party duties. I also agree with the staves, it was more of a min/max (they improved a bit the end results of spell, can't deny that) thing than a MUST have (contrary to Joyeuse for melee RDM ;D). But in the end, I went backline for exp/merit parties (to avoid drama) and still could enjoy mele while solo or LS events.
The problem is something pointed out by someone else claiming that a 'debuffer is a backline job in all MMORPGs'. I see this a lack of reflexion about the RDM job itself. RDM could do pretty much everything (Jack of all trades) while not excelling in anything. There are many ways to play RDM (that's what I loved about this class) and claiming otherwise is a lack of understanding of the class itself in my opinion.
However, I still think 2hours are a great idea and again, a good compromise would be to be able to cut the downtime by paying a NPC some gils to do so.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I don't know about 2-hr for recast. They would have to slow down the pace of combat and keep you in the field killing for hours to make 2-hr abilities viable. Only would be useful on an NM fight as of now.

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or as someone mentioned a lil fun every 2 hrs.


fyi my "life story" is my reason not to have 2 hours i was giving an example. Not my fault ppl got serious and said stuff w/o thinking first.
I'm no child btw...

also I had literally no issues in gracefully leaving a party if ppl had issues in my play style. Just ppl went above and beyond and insulted me for it. I don;t want 2hr or defined classes. It just gives ppl excuses to force play styles on ppl. No matrer what you guys think no class really had a "set" way of playing. I seen ppl do unpopular things but was good at it. As long as you are good at what you do, there is no need to firce anything on anyone. I was good at what I did. Just ppl had a bug up their bum. As long as you play smart (which I did) who cares.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I'm no child btw...

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Don't think I believe you...

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Don't think I believe you...

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And I think he has a very very valid point about classes and their roles. Same can go for SMN and being 'main healers' in a party while they had powerfull Bloodpact with avatars that could also tank for some time during a fight when got hate. Waste of potential of a class. However, I do not think that 2hours or defined class is the problem, it's more the lack of thinking outside the box that is the problem if I may dare to say.

(No Thanks!)


edit: missed the explain why part


Abilities with such extreme cooldowns tend to actually disincentivize using them. A very common observation in any MMO that has these mechanics.

Since they are so good, you'll generally hold on to them because you don't want to waste them, and when you do use them, 2 minutes later you'll be in a situation where you think it would have been much better to use the ability now.
While they have the potential to cause a "that was great" moment, in actual use they more often cause frustration due to "should have used it sooner/later" syndrome.

Summary: long cooldown abilities don't play well with player psychology.

I agree they definitely need to make sure they keep the abilities balanced out and useful for all jobs, but the concept of 2 hours is great. I am in favor of seeing them implemented in XIV as long as they are done correctly. No more NIN 2 hour please.....

as ppl stated rdm was the cannon class of ff. offline or online rdm are jack of all master of none. Good gear set up, great timing is all that matters. I just don;t want 2hr and class deffinition ruin the customization that ppl ignored in ffxiv. I would really hate to be limited in how I play because ppl take a game to seruiously. I play seriously enough to take pride in my jobs anhd making use of EVERYTHING is can do. playing 10% of a job is imo half arsen it. Dancers steps were a type of debuff ninja had debuff ws same for thf so tech they were debuffers also and melee'd. Blue mage also had several stuns and debuffs and was melee. SE even gave rdm composure which not only did it increase a rdm sekf buf duration but increased acc. Also haste + hornetneedle + ens spell or joytoy was not something to laugh at. And a few rdm were also known to have melee 'ed maat fight there youtube vids up if you wanna look. :) :P

I just want to play and have fun. so i personally don;t really care was is added.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Don't think I believe you...

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only a child would call someone an idiot over how they play a video game. So far I haven;t done that :)

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Originally Posted by Carmillia

And I think he has a very very valid point about classes and their roles. Same can go for SMN and being 'main healers' in a party while they had powerfull Bloodpact with avatars that could also tank for some time during a fight when got hate. Waste of potential of a class. However, I do not think that 2hours or defined class is the problem, it's more the lack of thinking outside the box that is the problem if I may dare to say.

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oh I know i recall several vids on youtube with rdm meleeing maat fight. So it is possible. And also correct me if I'm wrong but... rdms can also use excalibur.... and have also rdms have death blossom a rdm only ws. And rdm AF is based off of a fencer attier. And that the rdm af weapon was a sword... and thet are backline.... ok.... :)
Elitist are those who only think 1 way is the right way, and it their way or the high way.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

only a child would call someone an idiot over how they play a video game. So far I haven;t done that :)

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Could just mean you're a well behaved child and have some common courtesy. That said though, your reasoning and lack of thinking ahead or understanding of the dynamics of customer and producer are very "childish." I'd be surprised if you were over 21 tbh.

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Greetings everyone! We have heard about the possibility on 2 hour ability straight from the development team! Without further ado here's is what Akihiko Matsui, the FINAL FANTASY XIV Battle lead, had to say!

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I am very glad they are considering to add abilities to help diversify the classes....I still feel 2 hours is way too long of a cooldown, but I can live with it. It looks as though they still haven't locked down on a specific time yet, and they are aiming to have it be used once per encounter, so we'll see how this goes. Even though I disagree with the long cooldown, i'm still all for unique abilities for each class so it still a win in my book lol.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

"Having to strategize gives me a headache."

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"strategy" and remember to "take a pillow every 2 hours" are 2 different things.
Cooldown? yes.
A skill I forgive to have? No.
An encounter need tactics. If you waste your 2hr cooldown what do you do? Yes, a lot of @#!. good boy.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Could just mean you're a well behaved child and have some common courtesy. That said though, your reasoning and lack of thinking ahead or understanding of the dynamics of customer and producer are very "childish." I'd be surprised if you were over 21 tbh.

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umm how does anything you said about anything i said...
I'm 26. jan 16 1985 to be exact.

I play how I saw fit and contributed to the party no one died all is well If yiu can get past that all because of a melee rdm no matter how goodm you the chilish one.

I asked a question and tried not to insult others. How about you do the same. Why is a rdm melee "bad"? :) How does it "slow" the party down?
how is it childish to melee as a rdm?

I just don;t want to play a game and it be like work. Work is where you must do what a boss tells you to do a bend over backwards. Games mmo por otherwise are meant for enjoyment. As long as no one dies and everyone has fun who cares how other ppl play.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

yumi i just stated the cons you stated the positive i wasn't giving false info. Just stating the cons :) there is a pro and con to everything.

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this is not meand as an attack or something but from what i could read you were only writing off every skill listed as useless/pointless with some rather flawed reasons why beyond some of them, that is not what i would call the flaws of the abyllities.
it doesnt go "pro:it can save the whole group, con:its useless/pointless" maybe you chose your words harsher than you meant to

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

you do know you can enfeeble and melee at the same time right....
snip

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I had a melee red mage friend back when I played FFXI in 2004.

I appreciated the extra damage; and he kept refresh up on everyone at all times and wasn't a slacker on healing.

Can't say I remember what enfeeble was though..

Anyway; this was below level 60, and I quit in 2005 because people wanted me to have millions of gil worth of gear or I wouldn't get parties, since I was a paladin. That forest place with the big trees is the last thing I remember where people would kick me because I didn't have the -20%? damage reduction staff. Yes, let's use a staff over a shield.. /sigh

Elitists, hate 'em all.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I just don;t want to play a game and it be like work. Work is where you must do what a boss tells you to do a bend over backwards. Games mmo por otherwise are meant for enjoyment. As long as no one dies and everyone has fun who cares how other ppl play.

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Correct. However one should work to understand what you wrote. Someone don't, so they confuse work and game, same number or letter, same number of hours.

Why should anyone care how others play. As long as it is teamwork...
You take a game to seriously if you force your play style on others. Not everyone should feel to cookie cut. It gets dull seeing everyone play every class the same way. Its like why bother even making friends to party with if everyone plays the same. as of right now ffxiv can have so much more customization. No class can be the same if ppl choose to play different. Like 1 person might be a mararder with healing powers or a lancers with nuking powers, or a glad with buffers. 2hrs and defined classes may ruin that. As long as it don;t ima be ok with it and welcome them. Ima play regardless. And play how I see fit, if anyone ever has an issue with how I play just don;t bug me. I'm not gonna tell you how to play. As long as you don;t insult me for me playing differently everything is good.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_Hibiki

this is not meand as an attack or something but from what i could read you were only writing off every skill listed as useless/pointless with some rather flawed reasons why beyond some of them, that is not what i would call the flaws of the abyllities.
it doesnt go "pro:it can save the whole group, con:its useless/pointless" maybe you chose your words harsher than you meant to

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ya I was speed typing trying to recall every ffxi class and 2 hr. while having limured writing room. Thats for pointong that out. Though w/o insulting me :)

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

Correct. However one should work to understand what you wrote. Someone don't, so they confuse work and game, same number or letter, same number of hours.

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not to be mean but what? i don't get what you mean.
I have a learning disability is ya I have the worst typing skills. And even more worst at expressing what I wanyt to say w/o coming off as rude.... or "childish". I am not tryinbg to be rude in what I say or insultive or chilished

I don;t feel it makes sence to have a person tell you how to play a game. I see no reason for it. I took pride in the rdm job of ffxi. It was my fav class. Even though I had add i can do a ton of stuff and pay attention to alot of stuff. Which is typically not what I am able to do. If I didn't melee I got bored and fell asleep. I was good at what I did, thats the only thing people should ask for.

Dang some of you guys are against 2 hours too? Why not just say you don't want the game to ever be fun. Also lol @ saying 2 hours were worthless/underpowered.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

oh I know i recall several vids on youtube with rdm meleeing maat fight. So it is possible. And also correct me if I'm wrong but... rdms can also use excalibur.... and have also rdms have death blossom a rdm only ws. And rdm AF is based off of a fencer attier. And that the rdm af weapon was a sword... and thet are backline.... ok.... :)
Elitist are those who only think 1 way is the right way, and it their way or the high way.

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Yes indeed although Excalibur was to much of a time sink to even think about getting for me. Also RDM can be part of a light SC. We both agree here on that part, I just think 2hr and defined role is not going to change that as we already see that right now in FFXIV (about 'must have' abilities from different jobs). Anyways, back to the topic, I want Ultima spell (cf FFVI) for my conjurer 2hr :D
I still think that the 2hour downtime should be abled to be reduced by paying some gils to a NPC. Any thoughts about that feature? We need some gil sink and it's a nice compromise between its power and the 'need' of it for some battles.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Oh my god... WTF is happening to FFXIV... WTF

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It's become the MMO it should have been.

If the development team does implement a "2HR-like" ability for each class they have to be extremely careful. There are MANY dangers and pitfalls.

1. Abilities from some classes are more powerful/effective/useful than from other classes. This would lead to classes becoming "lol<class-name>" and shunned from parties.
2. Demand for a particular ability creates artificial demand in parties for the class with that ability. Party members would not be chosen for their skill with a class or role (e.g. Summoner), but instead simply because they have that ability (e.g. Astral Flow). If a player has already used that ability, they are no longer useful, and thus removed from the party and unable to get into another party until that ability is available again.
3. Abilities are "too balanced" and become virtually identical. As such, they would not contribute to class-uniqueness, and thus be counter-productive.

The tactical benefits of any additional ability (whether 2HR-like or not) are clear. Having more options in combat is always positive. But the permanent social implications and drawbacks (as demonstrated by the venomous debate of the preceding pages) might do more harm than any temporary tactical advantage that these abilities provide is worth.

I am on the fence, to be honest. If the choice was between "2HR-class abilities" or "constant class traits" like Marauder's Steadfast Stance. I would go with traits, as they would be easier to balance, and have fewer social pitfalls.

An example would be if Lancers had a "Piercing Charge" trait that allowed them to always hit multiple enemies as long as they were in a straight line in front of them. Something like that would add class distinctiveness and tactics (specifically the tactic of maneuvering).

Adding 2HR-class abilities is not as simple as it may seem. Class traits may be the better way to go.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

Dang some of you guys are against 2 hours too? Why not just say you don't want the game to ever be fun. Also lol @ saying 2 hours were worthless/underpowered.

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the opposite. because I want a game fun, I want useful skill.
If you prefer, 2h skills don't worth the time invested projecting them.
SE can add 2hrs cooldown. Ok, what now? Do I have to wait 2 hours after changing class? of course not, they have to do something like a global cooldown for 2hrs skills.
Do we use them? when something is so rare, we tend to preserve until the last moment, and sometime even after.
This means, if I'm able to explain what I'm thinking, we will not really use these skills properly or, If you prefer, we waste that cooldown. I prefer less powerful skills, but used without an anguish for what happens 30 minutes later (in CD).
And honestly, I prefer mid paced mmo's, where you think a tactic, but still need a reactive action. 2hrs = maybe 3 times in a evening, not enough for a cerebellar action.

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Greetings everyone! We have heard about the possibility on 2 hour ability straight from the development team! Without further ado here's is what Akihiko Matsui, the FINAL FANTASY XIV Battle lead, had to say!

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I like they are adding a "2hr" like ability but are also reviewing to see if having it on a 2hr cd is too much. A lot of MMOs give their classes special abilities but at most it's on an hr cd. Realistically I see dungeons lasting about 30 mins(4man) and an hour(8man). If that holds about true then our "special" ability should be 30mins-1hr cd(ranging for each class depending on the abilities effect/impact in battle). Having a 2hr cd just doesn't fit the pace of XIV.

My problem with XI was the abilities were unbalanced for a 2hr cd. Some should have been lower considering their overall small impact in battle.

Anything like a 2-hour ability would help identify classes as well as allow us to assemble teams with a strategy for the dungeon content they are promising.

For those of you vehemently opposing such an implementation (either because it's an instant win [not true, of course] or because you don't like having to see if the timer is ready), easy solution: Don't use it!

I see nothing wrong with adding 2-hour type abilities. It can only add to the fun of the realm, even if they are not particularly useful in 90% of activities.

NIN 2-hour in FFXI was pointless in battle (mostly), but great for blood warping after exp parties - and in .0001% of the time when everyone was dying and you needed just a bit more dmg, you can heal and explode to save the party. The fun is not in being able to do it every time, but when it goes off, wow, it was something to remember.

I'm all for 2hr's. But if they put drk back in I hope to god they don't bring back blood weapon. That should've been a regular drk ability with a 15 minute timer and the 2hr should've been a huge boost to attack.

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Originally Posted by Akumu

I like they are adding a "2hr" like ability but are also reviewing to see if having it on a 2hr cd is too much. A lot of MMOs give their classes special abilities but at most it's on an hr cd. Realistically I see dungeons lasting about 30 mins(4man) and an hour(8man). If that holds about true then our "special" ability should be 30mins-1hr cd(ranging for each class depending on the abilities effect/impact in battle). Having a 2hr cd just doesn't fit the pace of XIV.

My problem with XI was the abilities were unbalanced for a 2hr cd. Some should have been lower considering their overall small impact in battle.

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However the opposite end of that argument would be others should be longer because of their near "auto win" button, e.g Astral Flow + Alexander? That should be a 5-hr. Some 2 hrs were more useful in other instances rather than purely a party tactic, but being able to spam one set of abilities for example, people will demand their "useful" 2hr being spammable as well.

It's a slippery slope.

I'm floored that some people trash Kilta for wanting to play the way she wants to, then in the same breath expect her to play the way they want to. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the FFXIV armory system created to allow people to play the way they want to and break the molds that were in FFXI? That is one aspect of FFXIV that should be preserved.