New Job: Viper

Looks alright, a bit plain effects wise but that's not a sin.

I just personally find it really hard to get excited about ANY new job when we know it's just going to be another builder spender where you dump everything under buffs then 1-2-3 (while not overcapping!) for 1 minute and 45 seconds.

My mind immediately went to thinking about having the ability to combine your swords at will for a modified move-set but the 2 minute job identity kinda kills any speculation on new or interesting job mechanics.

I like what I'm seeing so far but I'll reserve judgement until seeing the full rotation. I do like how quick all their attacks look though. If it ends up being a very fast and busy job I would love that personally.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

It feels like we're channeling the spirit of Zidane!

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No thanks. We're actually using proper swords here.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I am disappointed! I want glowing swords!

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Oh, there'll be plenty of those, don't worry.

Horrible trailer, it looks like something that should have been released in Pre ARR or something. I don't see how someone can be excited for it when GNB basic combo looks better.

So a few thoughts:

1. The name is really unsatisfying, but I suspect they were trying to make a Zidane thief class that is also a "hunter/ranger" archetype, and couldn't just call it "thief" after the design settled on something that just isn't communicating "sneaky".

2. To that end, I think this is going to be a DoT swordsman. All of Zidane's dual-weapons inflict status effects, and we can see at least one attack in the trailer seems like it might inflict some sort of status effect (the purple dots on the combo opener, and maybe the subtle "water" effect on subsequent attacks). We can also see a bit of a dripping spray and purple mist when the guy slashes and cracks the camera. I am really struggled to think of any other way they could call this class a "Viper" other than it being a poison-blade. The only other thing I can think of would be summoning a bunch of swords that rapidly stab the enemy, but there would still be far better names for that archetype. I think we are getting a DoT swordsman, guys, and I think that is the best way to implement Zidane in a way that synergizes with his trance to form a kind of "primal hunter" class.

3. The sword-staff attacks are interesting. The first has earth effects and maybe some fire, while the second is pure fire. This may just be our "fire-sword" class to complement SAM (ice/wind-sword), PLD (light-sword), DRK (dark-sword), RDM (blood-sword), GNB (lightning-sword). With fire being another potential source of DoT. But I can't be for sure that those two attacks are not just fire attacks, and not fire and earth. Nor can I dismiss the possibility for a dual-sword class to specialize in two elements, maybe fire and water so as not to tread on the toes of our other sword-wielders. So it is possible that this class may function as a soft "Mystic Knight" with fire and water staff stances. Arguments for this would be that if we are getting Locke (thief) and Terra (trance) representation, what's stopping them from including a little Celes (spellblade)? Arguments against would be that water isn't a Celes thing so much as ice, fire is a Terra thing regardless of whether it's on a sword, and dual-elements really doesn't seem to vibe with a "Viper" identity. But who knows, I figured I might throw it out there as a possibility, even if I don't think it is likely what we are getting.

In conclusion: I think this is a poison-DoT hunter archetype. And if it isn't, then I think the name is stupid and the job design is going downhill.

I am also hoping that this and Green Mage are signalling a reopening of certain combat roles to the game. Specifically DoT-DPS classes, and debuffers. Otherwise, I just don't see why these two classes would have been chosen specifically, since both are very clearly communicating saboteur/synergist vibes.

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

Maybe it's a Turali Hrothgar art? Might explain why it's so out of place right now, as we haven't seen anything Hrothgar related in the Dawntrail stuff yet, though we know there are settlements there. Maybe the instructor will be a FemGar, who knows.

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If I could bet my money, the origins are the 'not-Texas' zone they showed, with the vintage Old West vibe - it would match the Artifact Set visuals.

Oh god Kirito is coming to final fantasy.

Jokes aside it does look interesting, I definitely thought it was gonna be corsair.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

If I could bet my money, the origins are the 'not-Texas' zone they showed, with the vintage Old West vibe - it would match the Artifact Set visuals.

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Ah yeah, maybe. How quickly I forget about Fantasy Arizona. I do really hope we get more than just an initial job quest line worth of lore. If there's one thing that also went away with the unique job quests, it was easily consumable extensions of lore, and I do miss that.

Too bad we can't mix and match one-handed weapons on this game.

Otherwise, pretty cool.

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Originally Posted by EstelleCere

Oh god Kirito is coming to final fantasy.

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I was thinking Drizzt.

Thought the trailer was alright. I liked the animations but it suffers not having an immediately apparent hook. Like, reaper has a lot you could put together just from the name and the animations in the reveal trailer, despite that reveal trailer being notable worse than this one. Sage also kind of a lore blackhole like Viper is, but at least you could immediately latch on to LAZER HEALER :O or the gundam reference and have something. Viper evokes poisons and maybe sneakiness and neither were apparent in the trailer shown. Aesthetically it's a good look but it just reads as generic sneak man. Maybe an assassin's creed knock off with the hood which isn't all that compelling.

I am sure this stuff will all come together much closer to launch but for this trailer, it did not pull me towards the class much as a career melee dps.

I mean I was convinced it was corsair. They got me. They got me good, but I don't hate this new job. I'm down for some twin blades and some Zidane-y action. Sounds like fun to me looks interesting to me. I dunno where people are getting the rpr comparison from. Honestly watching it if I had to compare to anything based on the little we saw.. it looked more monk/dragoon to me. Two 1-2-3 combos, building to a personal buff burst phase window.. but barely saw anything, so I'll wait til I see more.

But so far it has me intrigued.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

Thought the trailer was alright. I liked the animations but it suffers not having an immediately apparent hook. Like, reaper has a lot you could put together just from the name and the animations in the reveal trailer, despite that reveal trailer being notable worse than this one. Sage also kind of a lore blackhole like Viper is, but at least you could immediately latch on to LAZER HEALER :O or the gundam reference and have something. Viper evokes poisons and maybe sneakiness and neither were apparent in the trailer shown. Aesthetically it's a good look but it just reads as generic sneak man. Maybe an assassin's creed knock off with the hood which isn't all that compelling.

I am sure this stuff will all come together much closer to launch but for this trailer, it did not pull me towards the class much as a career melee dps.

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I feel like this would have been named "Hunter" or "Ranger", but for (a) wanting to not draw too much association away from Zidane and (b) wanting a someone more eye-grabbing name.

I still think it should have been called Hunter or Ranger. Even Swashbuckler would have been okay. Duelist. Dervish. Shikari. Troubadour. Esper. Genome. Trancer.

Viper is a very specific and edgelord name. If this job isn't a poison/DoT class then imo it is completely the wrong name.

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Originally Posted by EstelleCere

Oh god Kirito is coming to final fantasy.

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And now I'll never play a Viper :(

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

I feel like this would have been named "Hunter" or "Ranger", but for (a) wanting to not draw too much association away from Zidane and (b) wanting a someone more eye-grabbing name.

I still think it should have been called Hunter or Ranger. Even Swashbuckler would have been okay. Duelist. Dervish. Shikari. Troubadour. Esper. Genome. Trancer.

Viper is a very specific and edgelord name. If this job isn't a poison/DoT class then imo it is completely the wrong name.

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Oh wait guys. Guys. I gotta revise.

It's...the Kill Bill job.

Reminds me of hashashin from BDO, but the animations are very meh and look disconnected from the actual hits.

It's clearly my fault we didn't get a pirate job. ˚‧º·(˚ ˃̣̣̥᷄⌓˂̣̣̥᷅ )‧º·˚
The Privateer job idea I came up with back in SB was just too good and the devs just couldn't live up to it.
I'm so sorry! ｡･ﾟﾟ･(>д<)･ﾟﾟ･｡

Joking aside... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I'm interested in what looks like Zidane + Gabranth +Western Assassin/Rogue gameplay.
The name "Viper" makes me think of venom and poisons, which makes me think about ROG/NIN's old poison-stance mechanics. I wonder if they'll reuse those somehow? (*´∀｀).。o○( ? )

Hmm I wonder if that snake in the art work is part of the job and not just there for namesake . Venomous Bite/DoT?

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

Awful name

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Petition to rename Paladin to Turtle.

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Originally Posted by Kyrj

Petition to rename Paladin to Turtle.

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I'd prefer Armadillo, myself.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Demo video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=295BgKlNcqM

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:O I love it so much

So far I like that its not too terribly flashy or magicky at least from what we've seen compared to existing jobs as there isn't too many of that. Like a traditional fantasy rogue or like outlaw/combat rogue in WoW. Then again they could always reveal that their gauge spender summons a giant flaming viper or something I guess...

I like how it looks. Hopefully it's fun to play.

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Dudes have seen 4 GCD and one CD and already think the job looks lame.

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This.

When people say "some people are going to complain about anything" or "some people refuse to be pleased", this is the sort of thing they're talking about.

SCH looked boring in the Media Tour but Expedience turned out to be hugely successful and enjoyed by people, and SCH is still the meta pick and has been for all of EW. There's an old saying:

"Don't judge a book by its cover."

At least wait until you see what the mechanics are.

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As for the Job itself:

As a person who loves Rogue/Thief archetypes and dislikes Ninja, I'm happy we finally have a Rogue/Thief JOB (not relegated to a class you just upgrade out of). Though I kinda dislike the whole "will be highly technical" thing. I thought that's what NIN was? Having a second Scouting Job that is also highly technical makes little sense to me...but whatever.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

I don't really understand why it needed the blue mode for it's burst window, instead of the 'glaive form' being it's burst. Cos of that, my expectations are low, and I expect it to be very similar to RPR, with dualwield being basic GCDs, glaive being SoulSlice/the AOE one/Gallows/Gibbet/Guillotine, and bluemode being Enshroud

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Honestly, there's a part of me thinking blue thing is "Presence of Mind" and dualsword is "Cleric Stance".

...not a perfect analogy but here's my thought:

1-2-3-4(?) combo builds resources. The attacks are swift, maybe a speed buff (either like NIN or baseline like MNK) for a faster GCD. MAYBE this is the only stance you can use oGCD weaves in, etc. "Umbral Ice" phase.

Dualsword is a stance, not an action that changes you for a short time. You can swap in and out of it (most) any time you wish. But swapping into it when you haven't built up resources from dual wield phase means you won't be able to do as much damage. You need those resources built up to access bigger hits. In this stance, you have a different combo, and the attacks and attack speed are slower. "Astral Fire" phase.

The gameplay here would be to go into dual wield phase to build resources, maybe throw out some oGCDs, etc. You then shift into dualsword stance to lay on the hurt with some slower but harder hitting attacks. Then you hit the obligatory 2 min burst phase where you hit Presence of Trance, turn blue, and throw out several attacks, oGCD dump, and finally FF13 Lightning's "Army of One" to finish the job.

Rinse and repeat.

Could be wrong - probably am - but I like the idea of dualsword being a stance and the "highly technical" aspect of the Job being the player knowing when to enter it (sorta like RDM knowing when to melee phase) as opposed to using it like clockwork every 2 min. The Aura/Trance being the 2 min thing and how you work your stance shifts to keep that aligned/not drift out of party buffs would give the Job a more technical feel, as would the cadence shifts from "fast attacks pressuring the enemy" (shorter GCD?) dual wielding vs the "slower, strong attacks" of dualssowrd. Would give it a more BLM feel.

Granted, I hate BLM, but tons of people love it, so a Melee that works that way could be quite popular with the "high skill ceiling" crowd.

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I think a lot of people are judging this one far too early and may have an "Expedience-moment" in the future...

...but maybe not, who knows?

I absolutely do think people are being WAY too quick to judgement on this one, though. We've seen all of 7 abilities and the Job's artifact gear and people are already down on it. I guess to each their own but...good gosh that seems like a rush (or preconceived) judgement.

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For my part, I liked it way more than RPR. I've always wanted Rogue/Thief to be an actual Job in FFXIV (instead of a pre-class for Ninja, an archetype I like far less), and this is it. Combined with the fact I hate edgy/demon possession/necromancer/deal with the devil kinds of things (RPR) and hated that Job reveal. I think RPR looking good to people and "VIP?" looking bad is more a matter of taste and/or current levels of satisfaction/dissatisfaction with the game, but subjectively, I hated RPR's reveal and am marginally positive on this one.

I doubt I will play the Job/like the Job since I think it's going to be more technical like BLM, which is something I dislike, but in terms of it being a good addition to the game, I'm more than willing to wait until I've seen more than a 40 second trailer to make that judgement.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

This.

When people say "some people are going to complain about anything" or "some people refuse to be pleased", this is the sort of thing they're talking about.

SCH looked boring in the Media Tour but Expedience turned out to be hugely successful and enjoyed by people, and SCH is still the meta pick and has been for all of EW. There's an old saying:

"Don't judge a book by its cover."

At least wait until you see what the mechanics are.

.

As for the Job itself:

As a person who loves Rogue/Thief archetypes and dislikes Ninja, I'm happy we finally have a Rogue/Thief JOB (not relegated to a class you just upgrade out of). Though I kinda dislike the whole "will be highly technical" thing. I thought that's what NIN was? Having a second Scouting Job that is also highly technical makes little sense to me...but whatever.

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I think my excitement was tamed by the job release trailer simply because there wasn't a big hype moment for me and it just didn't feel as cinematic as the reaper trailer was. I think the attacks just looked a lot more subdued compared to the reaper trailer for EW and the trance mechanic for viper just wasn't as cinematic looking as enshroud was for reaper. I am hoping it turns into a thief archetype because I miss having that, but I also wasn't wowed by the trailer they gave us to introduce it.

I am waiting till we actually see it in action in the media tour and when all the abilities get revealed (or leaked) and we get a better look at what it is going to actually be before I form any deep opinions on it other than the superficial its ability looks didn't wow me at all.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I like how it looks. Hopefully it's fun to play.

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That's the big question. Sure it looks flashy but new jobs always do, even new abilities added to existing jobs, but how does it actually play? If it's just reaper 2.0 I'll yawn my face off.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I was actually predicting almost this concept myself. I was thinking it would be similar to Zidane and Serge from Chrono Cross and was calling it "Swallowtail" in my head.

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Same.

I thought we'd get a swallow- /ogre-blade-user eventually, as well, but figured it'd be more... tribal/spiritual/shamanistic, almost, rather than... well, about as far from that as you can get. In my head, it seemed more likely to be a "Hunter" (think XIII-2), "Wildling", or something of that sort, rather than more-straightlaced-and-no-fuss-Rogue-than-Rogue.

That said, I have no issue with the name if this is what they're going for, aesthetically. It's just a name. Call it a Duelist instead and it's still the same aesthetic, same gameplay...

It may be interesting. When I picked up the rogue job initially, I was a bit disappointed that it branched out to ninja. Not that I don’t like ninja, it’s a fun job, but to me it was something else completely and not the progression I had hoped for. This may be more in line with what I expected back then. It’s too early to tell though. We’ll see. Visuals don’t seem over the top which is a good thing for me.

I would have preferred if the job started at lv 60 or 70 instead of 80. 10 lvls go by too fast. We’re also going to get a lot of bad vipers initially as they familiarize themselves with the new kit. Most players don’t seem to ever practice their rotation on dummies. In the first weeks of 6.0 there were lots of sages and reapers that didn’t know what their buttons do. At lvl 80, it’s going to be worse lol. I think 60 offers a good balance: it’s not too “buttony” nor too slow.

https://www.ffxionline.com/filedata/fetch?id=1463624

Knew I'd seen that stance before.

Funny that they talk about having a fast playstyle with it, yet the trailer makes it seem slow (I know they normally do this, but could have had a faster pace to point out the speed).

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

I would have preferred if the job started at lv 60 or 70 instead of 80. We’re going to get a lot of bad vipers initially as they familiarize themselves with the new kit. Most players don’t seem to ever practice their rotation on dummies. In the first weeks of 6.0 there were lots of sages and reapers that didn’t know what their buttons do. At lvl 80, it’s going to be worse lol. I think 60 offers a good balance: it’s not too “buttony” nor too slow.

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80 is fine
it could start at lvl 1 and people would still be bad at lvl 100 more leveling doesn't force people to read tool tips

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Originally Posted by Kyrj

Petition to rename Paladin to Turtle.

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Name a job using a spear "Dragoon" and no one bats an eye.
Name a job using 2 sword "Viper" and suddenly it's a bad name.

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

Funny that they talk about having a fast playstyle with it, yet the trailer makes it seem slow (I know they normally do this, but could have had a faster pace to point out the speed).

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The trailer is meant to take a first look at the animations, they wait a good 2 seconds before using an oGCD but in-game you'll be able to weave it much faster.
We won't see its final gameplay until 7.0, even job actions is subject to change.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Snip.

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This is pretty similar to something I speculated. Maybe dual-stance GCD's building resource, combined-stance spending the same amount for higher potency versions of GCD's, and Pepsi Blue mode being a BIG spend dual-stance mode for your burst window, meaning smart use of when to swap stances to build and spend is key to making sure you aren't overcapping resource while making sure you're at max when your burst comes up.

Alternatively, dual-stance builds, combined spends, and your "stance swap" attack would refresh one stack of OGCDs every time it's used, but is on an increased recast like Six-sided Star, meaning you can't just spam it for infinite OGCD's.

Speculating is fun, though I look forward to seeing the job in action, because learning it will hopefully also be fun.

I honestly feel it's Corsair/ Pirate in all but name really. They wouldn't give us Thief because of the negative connotations, this feels like just a continuation of that.
I'm interested in the whole Turali origin as it seems to be heavily influenced by Mesoamerican history. As a Latino myself, a whole new continent & a job based on that culture is wildly interesting to me.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F88-CN-a...jpg&name=large

I'm just interested in how it'll be in pvp.

Let's look at the name itself, Viper. There may be some connotation that we are missing. The term Viper has been used in the past to refer to pirate archetypes in anime and games I believe. Another poster gave an example earlier about it. Also the twin blades also could reflect the idea of 2 larger fangs but not using daggers because Ninja. Adding the swallow aspect seems like fan service, a lot final fantasy fans love that style of weapon. I think to many people are caught up in the name and it not being what they exactly wanted.

idk, everything about it screams "build up gauge with swords, then switch to the big hits with the single two-handed weapon. repeat". Unless they do something really unique and add an interesting mechanic like BLM has. Not sure what they would look like on a melee dps though.

Imagine dual-wielding different Ultimate weapons, chances are, it'll be just one weapon to equip though.

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

https://www.ffxionline.com/filedata/fetch?id=1463624

Knew I'd seen that stance before.

Funny that they talk about having a fast playstyle with it, yet the trailer makes it seem slow (I know they normally do this, but could have had a faster pace to point out the speed).

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It's probably slow because no melds and low level, so it may not have all it's abilities.

probably the only thing that annoys me how in game the swords are on your back but in the cinematic its on your sides

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...421&height=544

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...54da213eb0af9&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...df8cd563c7ba5&

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Originally Posted by Duskane

probably the only thing that annoys me how in game the swords are on your back but in the cinematic its on your sides

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different weapons might sheathe differently, like sage