Naoki Yoshida says negative comments from trolls are "tiresome"

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Maybe he just needs another company to do something similar with one of their flagships. Imagine if Chevrolet decided that the 2024 Corvette would be redesigned as an economically priced, front-wheel drive, EV Minivan because they see a larger market for soccer moms wanting to feel good about being green is larger than the market of middle aged men with large amounts of disposable income going thru a mid-life crisis and choosing to blow it on a sports car... :P lol

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I'm confused by what point you're trying to make. FFXIV has always been a game suitable for soccer moms and others of various ages (including much older). They've been here all along, playing with you in roulettes and in some cases even in your Savage PFs.

https://www.pcgamer.com/69-year-old-...rs-final-raid/

This has never been a Corvette. It's always been a Suburban.

Do younger people not realize that video games have been around since the early 70s? That they weren't just getting played by kids (who are now in their 50s and 60s) but also by their parents?

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Do younger people not realize that video games have been around since the early 70s? That they weren't just getting played by kids (who are now in their 50s and 60s) but also by their parents?

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Jojoya: we have a certain troll here who commented "no one says they are 61 with a straight face". YoshiP is in his early 50's...as I remember the ultimate clapback was

"You never had ipads, iphones, internet, all the modern forms of commynication:"

Response

"Yes. i know Thats why we invented them".

The fact that the playerbase is ageing, with an increasing percentage being WELL over 60 seems to fly right over their heads.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I'm confused by what point you're trying to make.

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The broad point of how well it would go down to take a product known for a particular style and turn it into something utterly different to appeal to a new market at the cost of the old one.

I.E. you don't do that. You either make a different product to appeal to the market, or you leave it for another more interested company to fill that need.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The broad point of how well it would go down to take a product known for a particular style and turn it into something utterly different to appeal to a new market at the cost of the old one.

I.E. you don't do that. You either make a different product to appeal to the market, or you leave it for another more interested company to fill that need.

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That I can agree with. I've said it myself many times in the past, usually when someone brings up how they think FFXIV (or another game) needs to be completely shaken up content wise. You don't take something that people are already satisfied with. You make something new.

It's why I'm waiting to see what they reveal during the FanFests. They've said they want to make changes to the game to make the game more appealing to old FF franchise fans - how far are those changes going to go? Will I still like the game in 7.0?

The first sentence still confuses me though. Why would YoshiP need another company to do something to their flagship? Is the idea to use it as a test case for making major changes and see how well the player base responds? If so, all he needs to do is look at the game that he studied when tasked with saving FFXIV.

Maybe I'm just getting too tired to think clearly. Insomnia is annoying.

I guess those people who criticize yoshi P on "why people of color wasn't in ff16." and he gave a really crappy response was trolls?

also his response to healers to go "do Ultimate"

he can give criticism and blunt responses but can't handle feedback?

"why people of color wasn't in ff16?" is indeed a troll question though.

The dude took one of the most beloved turn based RPGs and turned it into a pretty but shallow action game with light RPG elements and now he wants to whine about the backlash. He got way to comfortable with people kissing his backside over XIV and doesn't know how to take criticism any more. He is the very thing he spoke out about.

XVI is pretty bad though, there is no replay value after the first time.
Besides the odin fight not a single fight is hard.

The story is very bleak and very lacking.
I don't like it and I was hyped for the release.
The cinematic battles for me don't cut it,
If I compare it to others there is no content.

Just wait for the dlc right//

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Originally Posted by TheNight

No one cares about his real feelings. Just as he doesn't care about ours.

It is alarming how Yoshi P managed to cultivate a parasocial relationship like this, and countless others, within the FF14 community.

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No one cares about his real feelings? This thread alone makes that a false statement. How tf is it parasocial to care about your fellow man's feelings? Step out of the basement and go interact with some real people cause jesus...you need it.

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Originally Posted by Palladiamors

The dude took one of the most beloved turn based RPGs and turned it into a pretty but shallow action game with light RPG elements and now he wants to whine about the backlash. He got way to comfortable with people kissing his backside over XIV and doesn't know how to take criticism any more. He is the very thing he spoke out about.

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FF hasn't been turn based in years so what're you on? Hell their latest titles Crisis Core Remake and 7 Remake aren't turned based and have nothing to do with Yoshi P. So to blame him for this is off. Folks will pin anything on the dude now.
He never even said all negative feedback is tiresome. He said trolls. Why be offended if you aren't what he's speaking about? Unless...

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

No one cares about his real feelings? This thread alone makes that a false statement. How tf is it parasocial to care about your fellow man's feelings? Step out of the basement and go interact with some real people cause jesus...you need it.


FF hasn't been turn based in years so what're you on? Hell their latest titles Crisis Core Remake and 7 Remake aren't turned based and have nothing to do with Yoshi P. So to blame him for this is off. Folks will pin anything on the dude now.
He never even said all negative feedback is tiresome. He said trolls. Why be offended if you aren't what he's speaking about? Unless...

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Absolute cringe.

Btw, these articles are being sourced from a Twitter post that only posts a photo of Yoshida looking at a computer screen, they do not even have the courtesy to post where this quote came from or even the source of the manuscript so people can check for false statements or mistranslations. So we have no idea if that twitter user is quoting something directly, or paraphrasing, or worse: inserting their own personal opinions into a line or exchange.

Here is the post news outlets are pulling from that does not offer a source:

https://i.imgur.com/gZXC2mU.png

I've checked and checked and i haven't yet found a direct sourcing for this quote.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

Btw, these articles are being sourced from a Twitter post that only posts a photo of Yoshida looking at a computer screen, they do not even have the courtesy to post where this quote came from or even the source of the manuscript so people can check for false statements or mistranslations. So we have no idea if that twitter user is quoting something directly, or paraphrasing, or worse: inserting their own personal opinions into a line or exchange.

Here is the post news outlets are pulling from that does not offer a source:

https://i.imgur.com/gZXC2mU.png

I've checked and checked and i haven't yet found a direct sourcing for this quote.

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The original source of that I believe is a smallish Japanese news site that someone pulled that from and translated to english. I ran across the name a few days ago. It'll take me awhile to find it again.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

This is why devs, producers, etc., should ideally not really directly check social media for feedback, but rather have it relayed from an intermediary or from a community team.

It hits harder generally when it is something you have been responsible for the outcome for, either wholly or partially. Especially when it is not necessarily constructive, but just littered with nonsense, and I don't mean the "I didn't like xyz" kind of feedback.

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This 100%. Most people do not handle negativity/criticism well and tend to have a knee-jerk reaction at the trolls rather than see the genuine criticism in the sea of feedback.

Have someone collect the ones that are common and not pedantic and relay that to the team. It's easy to look at the overwhelming feedback and feel down from the bad ones.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

The original source of that I believe is a smallish Japanese news site that someone pulled that from and translated to english. I ran across the name a few days ago. It'll take me awhile to find it again.

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Thank you! I've been trying to search for the publication via that photo by reverse image searching and i'm not coming up with anything; i mainly just want to know what the context of that exchange was and if thats the whole entire quote or if that person is doing that trick media does where they isolate a sentence by itself and it changes the whole meaning behind the sentence.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

Thank you! I've been trying to search for the publication via that photo by reverse image searching and i'm not coming up with anything; i mainly just want to know what the context of that exchange was and if thats the whole entire quote or if that person is doing that trick media does where they isolate a sentence by itself and it changes the whole meaning behind the sentence.

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Pretty sure that was just part of an actual article covering FFXVI in a broader sense

Honestly, I find Naoki Yoshida not listening to feedback from his customers "tiresome"

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Some folks over there seem very unhappy about the way Yoshida characterized his detractors, to say the least..

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Gee, I wonder why that could possibly be.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

Btw, these articles are being sourced from a Twitter post that only posts a photo of Yoshida looking at a computer screen, they do not even have the courtesy to post where this quote came from or even the source of the manuscript so people can check for false statements or mistranslations. So we have no idea if that twitter user is quoting something directly, or paraphrasing, or worse: inserting their own personal opinions into a line or exchange.

Here is the post news outlets are pulling from that does not offer a source:

https://i.imgur.com/gZXC2mU.png

I've checked and checked and i haven't yet found a direct sourcing for this quote.

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https://dizm.mbs.jp/program/jounetsu/episode/303 (paywalled unfortunately)

It's from a recent episode of Jounetsu Tairiku, which is an interview program which interviews 'passionate' people in various fields.

There's been a pretty strong reaction to the program in parts of the JP community as well; Some folks over there seem very unhappy about the way Yoshida characterized his detractors, to say the least..

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Honestly, I find Naoki Yoshida not listening to feedback from his customers "tiresome"

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https://media2.giphy.com/media/5xtDa...giphy.gif&ct=g

Yoshida also said Housing was going to be personal, separated from Guild Housing and affordable.

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Originally Posted by elioaiko

Most people do not handle negativity/criticism well.

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It's beyond reasonable levels right now. The simps are mass reporting anyone they don't like.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Mostly regarding FFXVI but still applies here.



Source

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Well, the game feels like a generic fantasy more than a true "final" fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It's one thing to leave feedback about the game, and another to attack the individuals working at Square Enix. But it's not entirely clear exactly what he read there.

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We also need to stop attacking, and being mean to each other. It's become quite a problem lately.

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Originally Posted by TheNight

It's beyond reasonable levels right now. The simps are mass reporting anyone they don't like.

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With that sentiment you're implying the simps are actually the majority, and that just proves the so-called simps who argued with you in the past were correct. They are indeed the majority, both in game and on the forum, and perhaps on other social media as well.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

With that sentiment you're implying the simps are actually the majority, and that just proves the so-called simps who argued with you in the past were correct. They are indeed the majority, both in game and on the forum, and perhaps on other social media as well.

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This logic makes no sense whatsoever.
Reporting is not a vote and mass reporting has no relation to its ratio compared to the forums' general population. It's a threshold.
If 30 people report one user, the mods won't check if there's 100 active users in the forum or 50k to apply their judgement.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

This logic makes no sense whatsoever.
Reporting is not a vote and mass reporting has no relation to its ratio compared to the forums' general population. It's a threshold.
If 30 people report one user, the mods won't check if there's 100 users in the forum or 50k to apply their judgement.

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So it's easy for simps to reach the threshhold because?

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

So it's easy for simps to reach the threshhold because?

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They do it more often than the non-simps? Which is exactly the accusation given btw.

Given by the large sample of the critical side, it only take a small portion of them to meet the threshhold. Simps, on the other hand, have to unite toghether against one certain user.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

They do it more often than the non-simps? Which is exactly the accusation given btw.

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I don't even know. I just don't believe the fact that mass report actually works in here.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

I don't even know. I just don't believe the fact that mass report actually works in here.

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I'm not sure either. I was mainly just criticizing the logic that reports means majority/minority.

We know some mass reports campaigns were coordinated by a certain third party group, but I don't think they were particularly effective.

I'm sure some impopular users get reported daily yet they're still here.
The mods probably follow a strict procedure and don't care that much about our opinion.

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Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

Yoshida also said Housing was going to be personal, separated from Guild Housing and affordable.

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OT reply: As I understand it, he was referring to apartments, which are personal/instanced, separate from FC housing, and affordable. The statement seems to have accurately predicted the introduction of apartments at a time when (I believe) wards were still limited to FC housing only.

What reversed it was opening up ward plots to individual purchase, but I think people were making de facto single player FCs to get around the restriction anyway. Personally I'm fine with FC housing and personal apartments only, but we can't really go back at this point.

Predictions are hard, especially about the future. Sometimes they just change their mind or decide to take a different path vs. what was originally planned.

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Originally Posted by TheNight

No one cares about his real feelings. Just as he doesn't care about ours.

It is alarming how Yoshi P managed to cultivate a parasocial relationship like this, and countless others, within the FF14 community.

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It is of course impossible to tell whether people who are working are being genuinely nice to you or just doing their job. In my experience, both things can be going on at the same time.

But I've had many positive one-on-one interactions with the SE folks at fanfest and elsewhere, and they signed stuff like my game/soundtrack/lore book/FFXIV journal/etc. and also seemed to respond to what I had to say (either communicating in English/broken Japanese or with translation help from Aimi.) I probably annoyed Yoshi-p when we were waiting in the same area to be picked up by airport limo and uber respectively, but he still signed my art book when I dug it out of my luggage. He seemed really happy meeting people in the registration queue at a previous fanfest. Ishikawa seemed genuinely moved at PAX and was funny and kind in person. Koji signed my lore book when I was waiting in line at PAX. Yoshitaka Amano drew a Moogle for me when he wasn't supposed to. I think a lot of performers and public figures do have one-to-many/many-to-one parasocial relationships; but I really do want Soken to enjoy the best of health and recovery, and I'm also genuinely grateful for all the great music, Primals concerts, and other things that he has done.

From my perspective, I would need to know how he defines the term "troll." Is it someone who is just screaming & calling him names, or is he suffering from success where he has become out of touch where people asking for basic fixes ten years on are now tiring him out? If it is the latter, then my response would be if you fixed them when people raised the issue instead of making them slightly less awful or completely ignoring them for a decade, maybe people wouldn't be so angry when they expected better from an incredibly famous developer of a multi-billion dollar company who has shown a lack of interest in making their game better and is happy with producing more of the same while creating another game instead of fixing the issues players are paying him for.

Either way, the comments doesnt inspire confidence.

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Originally Posted by Avenger

OT reply: As I understand it, he was referring to apartments, which are personal/instanced, separate from FC housing, and affordable. The statement seems to have accurately predicted the introduction of apartments at a time when (I believe) wards were still limited to FC housing only.

What reversed it was opening up ward plots to individual purchase, but I think people were making de facto single player FCs to get around the restriction anyway. Personally I'm fine with FC housing and personal apartments only, but we can't really go back at this point.

Predictions are hard, especially about the future. Sometimes they just change their mind or decide to take a different path vs. what was originally planned.

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His statement predates apartments even being a concept.
He also said the combat in XIV was going to encourage player expression around the same time.

He doesnt know what a troll is, trolls post inflammatory or outrageous posts to put the forums into a frenzy and cause chaos for fun. Review bombing isnt trolling either, its protesting that you goofed really bad and you should reassess. all he has to do to win back his reputation is listening, following through and transparency, thats it. But its kryptonite to devs who are complacent.

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Originally Posted by Sigma5

He doesnt know what a troll is, trolls post inflammatory or outrageous posts to put the forums into a frenzy and cause chaos for fun. Review bombing isnt trolling either, its protesting that you goofed really bad and you should reassess. all he has to do to win back his reputation is listening, following through and transparency, thats it. But its kryptonite to devs who are complacent.

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He's talking about 2ch though lol not about us

Naoki Yoshida says negative comments from trolls are "tiresome"

Excuses to not do things done on a PS2 is tiresome........

I do see what he is saying though. XIV-XVI have been the most divisive times for the series. He cannot deny the hand he has in it with some of the decisions made.....or said....

I feel FF needs some fresh faces to steer the franchise. The current regime has been nothing but drama & under-delivering. However, folks (Such as myself sometimes) do not really make matters any better by pouring gas on the fire. I will raise my hand & take responsibly for my part.......But I am no dev.....

If XVI was indeed such a hit, doubt he claps at trolls. When XIV was on top for that brief period, Yoshida could care less what anyone was saying or doing lol.....
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BR_oyj_CAAAWkRN.jpg

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Originally Posted by PirateRyanG

Maybe if he developed a better game, he wouldn't get the trolls and he wouldn't be tired?

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No offense, but this is the same logic people use when they tell women "maybe if they didn't dress sexually/scantily they wouldn't get r*ped by men". The men who commit those acts would do so regardless and it places blame on the victims. Even if content is not good, there is a difference between being upset and critiquing the content and flat out cursing/being vulgar/trolling. People who troll no matter if content is good or bad will always troll because their negativity usually stems from a deeper misery inside themselves and usually from unhappiness in other avenues of their lives and being able to be nasty to be people online behind the comfort of a computer screen and lack of real life consquences is why people troll, it's an unhealthy outlet for them to express all that toxicity...

Back to FF: I don't see much of this "trolling" or "hate" towards FFXIV or SE. I see a lot of people being supportive though. Of course, my view and experience yada yada

but i wonder if Yoshi uses this as a scapegoat to shield from criticism.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

His statement predates apartments even being a concept.
He also said the combat in XIV was going to encourage player expression around the same time.

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Interesting - how do you know for sure that he had no concept in mind of possibly introducing apartments (or something similar, like mog houses in FF11) when he said that? To my mind the statement accurately resolved with the subsequent introduction of apartments (perhaps with the addition of island sanctuary for outdoor furniture.)

You may very well be correct - in that case it may just be an example of them changing their plans/mind, which certainly happens (e.g. I think they said at one point they might allow user UI extension scripts in Lua (?) which would enable DPS meters, and obviously they decided not to do that.)

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Originally Posted by Avenger

Interesting - how do you know for sure that he had no concept in mind of possibly introducing apartments (or something similar, like mog houses in FF11) when he said that? To my mind the statement accurately resolved with the subsequent introduction of apartments (perhaps with the addition of island sanctuary for outdoor furniture.)

You may very well be correct - in that case it may just be an example of them changing their plans/mind, which certainly happens (e.g. I think they said at one point they might allow user UI extension scripts in Lua (?) which would enable DPS meters, and obviously they decided not to do that.)

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https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...s_on_personal/ this what he was talking and I don't believe he had apartments in mind in patch 2.3.