I don't want to see any of the other Scions in 7.0.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

I hope this isn't true but I kinda got the same vibe with how neatly everything's wrapping up (Golbez's homies show up and fall like domino pieces) and the "straight to VHS disney sequel" vibes I got from the scions getting back together right after 6.0 disbanded them. I want to be wrong though, because I'll be kind of nettled if they made us deal with Zero's repetitive bullshit just to write her off as a filler character who never gets brought up again. I really hope this arc ties directly into 7.0 and they don't just wrap shit up in 6.5 and then start some totally unrelated thing in 7.0, otherwise post-EW really will feel like a complete slap in the face to everyone who didn't just quit after base endwalker. My last real hope is the fact that they announced Golbez as a trial super early which makes me think there's something more we're not being told, and that could be the boost this post-story needs.

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It was already confirmed that this Void storyline is wrapping up in 6.4. 6.5's events will lead to 7.0, and will probably not be heavily related to the Void stuff. I can see them however taking Zero and giving us a questline in 7.0 where she ends up on the First and meets the crew there (assuming you did the previous quests after completing the ShB role quests and the Warring Triad).

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You're reminding me that I hope that Alphinaud/Alisaie are not in the 7.X series until like 7.4/7.5. Not because I don't like them, but because it will allow not only a new design for them, but also let them have a growth spurt when not in the main story. Imagine coming to the end of the 7.X series to run into them again...and they're as tall as Urianger. A complete case of "Holy crap, you guys grew up!"

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That has always been a bit weird... they should have grown a lot in their three years in The First and they didn't. I'd love to see an older version of them.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

That has always been a bit weird... they should have grown a lot in their three years in The First and they didn't. I'd love to see an older version of them.

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The Twins were there only for a year, the Scions weren't there that long to begin with, with Thancred being there the longest for 5 years, and even if they were the for that long, it wouldn't matter, their bodies were still in the Source and in the first they were effectively really tangible ghosts, and nowhere near as much time passed in the Source.

I would agree with that to a point. You can keep a few of them if they matter. I wouldn't be shocked to keep Estinien if we go to mericidia, or G'raha if we go to Corvos, but I would like to have new faces too (or old faces that had secondary roles up until now - I would have love to have Arenvald). But no shoehorned twins like 6.3 msq did.

I hope don't see scion in 7.0, all they do is use you like you are their personal tool. I hope in 7.0 the warrior of light branches off and we find our own path to walk. Be good or evil that we get to decide.

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Originally Posted by hunkygladiator

The best stories in video gaming and literature in general do not make you fanboy or fangirl over the characters.

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We will probably see Corvos and/or Meracydia soon.
Zenos learned his art from Corvos and that is where Graha came from.

We may get rid of Ascians for now...but i doubt they will just forget about such origins, specially if the new field operation zone works like Bozjan 2.0.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

I hope don't see scion in 7.0, all they do is use you like you are their personal tool. I hope in 7.0 the warrior of light branches off and we find our own path to walk. Be good or evil that we get to decide.

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https://i.imgur.com/6GNDkdA.jpg

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Originally Posted by hynaku

I hope don't see scion in 7.0, all they do is use you like you are their personal tool. I hope in 7.0 the warrior of light branches off and we find our own path to walk. Be good or evil that we get to decide.

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Definitely agree.

I think that this game suffers much from having way too many "good" characters that we're stuck with. Imagine if instead in Shadowbringers a character like Emet-Selch stayed on as a party member who participated in battle with us and then became the final boss? Cooperating with people that have conflicting agendas isn't an uncommon thing in other games. FFXIV is unique in how utterly homogenous the main cast is.

Even in the game from which my namesake is derived one of your potential party members is a Vampiress, one who quite literally eats the player and gives you a game over screen if you approach her without wearing a garlic necklace before trying to recruit her. She then proceeds to steal the soul of the "good" paladin in your party and make him a vampire as well.


I'm sure someone is bound to chime in again with "conflicts between party members would be distracting/unrealistic" as they did in the past the last time this subject of discussion was brought up, but a party that has at least some back and forths or disagreements with each other would be a massive leap forward from stoically nodding in tandem with Alphinaud and the rest, as Estinien gradually morphs into another version of him. I thought him being used as part of a joke in 6.1 was bad enough, but having him be the voice of the same tired scion propaganda in 6.2 made me want to get him off my screen as soon as possible.

Pretty much. Here, have a Sharlayan-educated intellectual whose goals include world peace. This character is well-intentioned but occasionally makes judgment errors, and delivers speeches about what they learned from that error once they discover it. They occasionally employ sarcasm to cut the tension.

Who am I talking about? Wrong answers only.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Pretty much. Here, have a Sharlayan-educated intellectual whose goals include world peace. This character is well-intentioned but occasionally makes judgment errors, and delivers speeches about what they learned from that error once they discover it. They occasionally employ sarcasm to cut the tension.

Who am I talking about? Wrong answers only.

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Giaus obviously. Or are you talking about Elidibus?

I want an utterly clear slate for the most part.

If it is to be a new 'chapter' in the game, then I do think we should have a new cast, otherwise it will be a cast -- the same cast -- that we have had since the inception of the game.

I don't mind them being around on the transitionary part of the game as part of their sort of... exit but bar this...

It would have been nice for the most part if the scion disbandment were actually a disbandment. I am OK with Y'sthola sticking around despite this though because there is some relevance with the scholarly and 'wanting to find a way to traverse the shards' thing

I don't hate the Scions but they've overstayed their character arcs and story relevancy and the writes clearly don't want to do anything interesting with them, opting more for empty fanservice. ¯\_( ◉ 3 ◉ )_/¯

I’m really hoping they restart with 7.0 and only do cameos periodically for fanservice as needed. But I’m still expecting Zenos to show up, he is like the rash that never goes away. Yea they said he died but we didn’t see his body go poof so the door is still open for his return.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I’m really hoping they restart with 7.0 and only do cameos periodically for fanservice as needed. But I’m still expecting Zenos to show up, he is like the rash that never goes away. Yea they said he died but we didn’t see his body go poof so the door is still open for his return.

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Ah the old "soap opera" trope. If you don't see a body then they can come back...

However there was once that that didn't apply. My ex got me into this one soap opera for a bit because they were going through some sort of serial killer arc. You would think they were going through a whole shift in cast cause they were killing a TON of people. Dead and buried too.

However they were NOT dead but in fact sent to an island for...reasons. The killer ended up being the guy everyone thought would be the killer until he himself was mauled to death by a tiger. He lived through that and being buried.

I remember getting mad at how dumb that was and stopped watching the show with her.

I can understand how people can get tired of the Scions. However, comments such as "I don't want to see any of them in the future" sounds too melodramatic.
The word "Scion" seems to be used to indicate specific characters, but the Scions include a larger group of characters who were with you in Mor Dhona.
I would be glad to see some of them back, such as Riol, Isildor, Hoary Boulder, etc... but I doubt that's what this topic is about.

Many of the "main Scions" have gone through enough character development to really go their own way in my opinion.
1) Thancred -- he overcame his own unresolved issues in ShB. He didn't have a compelling reason to be in the EW plot other than to be a "tank" for the party.
2) Alphinaud & Alisae -- Their character development is completed with EW. They should continue doing their work to help Galeans recover.
3) Y'shtola -- No idea where SE wants to take her because she doesn't seem to have any development need (other than through Matoya potentially). However, it seems like her knowledge would be needed in the future story so it seems unavoidable to see her again.
4) Krile -- She has gone through some development during the story and has shown some dissatisfaction in her abilities to keep up with the others especially in combat, so likely we can see her role expand in the next expansion. I don't see a problem with that really.
5) Estinien -- He has only officially been a Scion since EW, so I think it is too early to "get sick" of him. He seems to be a much needed non-Sharlayan voice in the group so it seems he would be useful plot-wise.
6) Graha Tia -- I wish he would be less "fanboy-ish" and generally I find him annoying. It would be nice to see more of his Crystal Exarch persona instead like we saw briefly in Razathan during its defense. Hopefully he will settle-down from his over-zealous attitude towards the WoL.

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Originally Posted by Ghost_of_Ebina

I can understand how people can get tired of the Scions. However, comments such as "I don't want to see any of them in the future" sounds too melodramatic.

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I don't know, is it? I just want a fresh start. You can check on the Scions in some side quests in the future but I genuinely do not want to see any of them come back into the MSQ or it will not feel fresh. I want new places, new characters and new mysteries to explore. The reason Shadowbringers felt so fresh to me was that it was a whole new world we knew nothing about. I'm so tired of everything we know about the Source.

There's plenty of places on the Source we could still go. Emet-Selch even gave us a list. We just need to get out of Eorzea for a while.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

There's plenty of places on the Source we could still go. Emet-Selch even gave us a list. We just need to get out of Eorzea for a while.

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That's why I said I'm tired of everything WE KNOW about the Source. Sure there could still be some interesting places to explore. As long as they are actually interesting and feel alien enough to be proper different, then I can be content.

All I know is that I no longer care to go to locations that are little more than lazy caricatures of cultures like Thavnair. I don't want to suffer through a Meracydian expansion with kangaroo beastmen who live on a giant rock copypasted from actual Australia. They need to get creative and stick with high fantasy instead of ticking off representing cultures XYZ off a checklist.

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Originally Posted by Ghost_of_Ebina

I can understand how people can get tired of the Scions. However, comments such as "I don't want to see any of them in the future" sounds too melodramatic.
The word "Scion" seems to be used to indicate specific characters, but the Scions include a larger group of characters who were with you in Mor Dhona.
I would be glad to see some of them back, such as Riol, Isildor, Hoary Boulder, etc... but I doubt that's what this topic is about.

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I do agree that it would have been nice for the background Scions to get their time to shine. (*•̀ᴗ•́*)و ̑̑

3. At this point, I don't think the writers have/had a real plan or direction for Y'shtola; she's just here to explain things, pontificate theories that are later proven true, and give some dry-humor quips. I'm of the cracked out opinion that for the next expansion, she should be tempted by Golbez to join his cause of shard traversal.

4. Has Krile gone through any development? She felt more like a role-filler then a character, i.e. Minfilia's old second-echo-haver role only they gave her a more playful personality. If the next expansion involves the Students of Baldesion, I can see her involvement, as her post-Scions goal is to bring the Students back to their former glory and the stresses and challenges of doing that would give her something.

5 + 6. To me, while EW is both Estinien and Graha's first official soiree with as Scions, both have had their stories and development in previous games (Estinien has been in the story since HW, supporting use and our allies from SB and ShB and Graha since the Crystal Tower raids and all of ShB).
However, I'll give Estinien this: He (along with the twins) feel the most like an actual friend to the WoL to me versus the rest of the Scions, who feel like close work-place associates of various degrees (and Graha being a fanboy). I think him being with us in our adventures purely as a friend who has our backs and can have actual conversations with could work. As for Garha, I could see him working if the writers gave him moments where he can see the WoL as a person and no just as a legendary monolith (they probably won't but still). （*´▽｀*）

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

All I know is that I no longer care to go to locations that are little more than lazy caricatures of cultures like Thavnair. I don't want to suffer through a Meracydian expansion with kangaroo beastmen who live on a giant rock copypasted from actual Australia. They need to get creative and stick with high fantasy instead of ticking off representing cultures XYZ off a checklist.

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I always assumed Meracydia is more of an Africa allusion then Australia; Eorzea is a mix of the Western Europe and the Mediterranean (which includes the top of Africa and the Middle East), Ilsabard being Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and most of Asia (excluding East and South-East Asia), and Othard being East Asia. (๑•̆૩•̆)

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I always assumed Meracydia is more of an Africa allusion then Australia; Eorzea is a mix of the Western Europe and the Mediterranean (which includes the top of Africa and the Middle East), Ilsabard being Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and most of Asia (excluding East and South-East Asia), and Othard being East Asia. (๑•̆૩•̆)

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In either case, I truly believe that trying to do 1:1 references to various real-world regions was a mistake. It's made some aspects of the setting boring at best and borderline offensive at worst.

Neither fantasy Africa nor fantasy Australia is a good starting point for this next arc, not when so many more appealing aspects of basic fantasy elements are so lacking in this game outside of what we had back in Heavensward and Shadowbringers. Especially if the scions tag along and engage in another deluge of preaching to the native cultures.

Whilst am indifferent about the Scions generally, I do hope that - if we visit Meracydia - Estinien might come along. We know that Bahamut, Tiamat and Azdaja lived there, and depending on how events play out in 6.4, Azdaja may want to go back there.

And this would actually give us a reason to go there in the first place.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Neither fantasy Africa nor fantasy Australia is a good starting point for this next arc, not when so many more appealing aspects of basic fantasy elements are so lacking in this game outside of what we had back in Heavensward and Shadowbringers.

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Like what? （*・o ・*）?

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Like what? （*・o ・*）?

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Well for a start thanks to the genius writing of Endwalker, every other culture's religions outside Eorzea were pretty much confirmed as fake and the gods we are seemingly stuck with are goofy individuals who inspire more cringe than awe.

Magical civilizations - such as in the style of Mhach and Amdapor would be extant in most other mmorpgs and it would be wonderful to visit such civilizations as the player character and experience storylines set there. Instead all we have in terms of that in this game are ruins, and confined to raid storylines only. Although WoW had a writer who went rogue and destroyed Teldrassil, cities like Silvermoon and Suramar are some of the sort of places that I feel FFXIV would benefit from including in its setting.

https://i.imgur.com/jI9n51g.png

The destruction of Garlemald and both a location and its government also has left behind a vacuum for those of us who enjoyed its intrigue and aesthetics. Had it not been so unceremiously done away with, its involvement in future world affairs could have been something I'd have looked forward to. Especially if the royal family was not ridiculously tied to the Ascians and had their agency taken away from them. In any case, Ishikawa has killed off or written out any surviving members as opposed to FFXII having at least a level-headed Larsa figure survive.

Imagine if FFXIV lived up to the claims it respected FFXII so greatly, how much better its handling of that entire situation could have been.

As to the remaining nations in the world there is also the issue of how far the poison of Sharlayn democracy has spread and infected nations like Ishgard and Ala Mhigo - and now Garlemald as well with its reversion back to having a faceless senate that doesn't interest those of us who liked the empire as an empire in the slightest. The number of traditional kingdoms on the Source is far smaller, down one further thanks to Ahewann's heroic antics leaving Thavnair with a sad dragon as its leader. All that is left now is Doma, now isolated and irrelevant to the story, and Dalmasca which once again was handled poorly in terms of how its storyline wrapped up and has seemingly no plans to ever be revisited.

Corvos with its soldiers and their "unyielding blade" techniques could very well do for a kingdom of mystic knights. Any number of former imperial territories that were once kingdoms or duchies could also fulfil a similar role. It could even accomplish the sort of Taj Mahal like fantasy with its architecture that was teased for Thavnair back in Stormblood only for Radz-at-Han to look as tacky as it does in Endwalker. I believe that a middle eastern like city for either the main city or the endgame hub combined with a more European inspired one for the other would be an excellent combination for 7.0's fresh start.

Assuming we are spared more commentary of "monarchy bad!" and having the scions bulldoze their way to setup more republics in their place of course.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

All I know is that I no longer care to go to locations that are little more than lazy caricatures of cultures like Thavnair. I don't want to suffer through a Meracydian expansion with kangaroo beastmen who live on a giant rock copypasted from actual Australia. They need to get creative and stick with high fantasy instead of ticking off representing cultures XYZ off a checklist.

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Just wait until they get to North America!

Oh joy the very hyperbolic generalization that every country got turned into a democracy has made its way into the chat... waves a flag in fake excitement

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Just wait until they get to North America!

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The US is already a caricature of a functioning nation as it is.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Just wait until they get to North America!

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I honestly dread what would become of a New World expansion given how previous regions like Ala Mhigo's messaging and Thavnair's beastmen were handled. I do not wish to see Latin American culture turned into comic relief the way the Arkasadora were. To say nothing of the chance that in keeping with the style of Endwalker's writing that the last thing we need is a scene in which the scions go to Taco Bell, where they are waited upon by talking cactuses or piñatas.

No doubt that some of the current playerbase of the venue frequenting kind would have little to no issue with this but as someone who would much rather not endure such spectacle, it is best to simply not walk down this path again. In any case, I feel like a repetition of Mayan/Aztec aesthetics comes too soon after Rak'tika - leaving them with little else to draw from in terms of New World material except colonial era or conquistador aesthetics, which I imagine would bring controversy of their own.

Apparently Perfect World is also releasing a new korean version of itself as "Perfect New World" which combined with Amazon's own New World mmorpg makes far too many for my liking.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

The US is already a caricature of a functioning nation as it is.

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That's when the fat sliders will be featured.

Admittedly, sometimes Kingdoms are pretty fun. The form of governance aside, it would be nice to visit a Kingdom or similar hegemony that isn't the primary antagonistic force of the expansion for once. Final Fantasy XIV has already done the stereotypical evil ruler and sometimes pope, so why not save a Kingdom from an external threat this time? Like the Kingdom of Voeburt from Shadowbringers before it's fall, or the Elvaan empire decimated by the Flood of Light. I found the desiccated lore of those nations rather fun, and think it'd be nice to visit and help such a place before they sink under the sea or are rendered hollowed out husks.

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Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl

Admittedly, sometimes Kingdoms are pretty fun. The form of governance aside, it would be nice to visit a Kingdom or similar hegemony that isn't the primary antagonistic force of the expansion for once. Final Fantasy XIV has already done the stereotypical evil ruler and sometimes pope, so why not save a Kingdom from an external threat this time? Like the Kingdom of Voeburt from Shadowbringers before it's fall, or the Elvaan empire decimated by the Flood of Light. I found the desiccated lore of those nations rather fun, and think it'd be nice to visit and help such a place before they sink under the sea or are rendered hollowed out husks.

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Likewise, back in Shadowbringers I ate up every and any lore I could find on those two kingdoms. The aesthetics were just so on point especially in the case of Lakeland and both the ruined castle there along with the Grand Cosmos.

Benevolent monarchs are very much a thing, despite the way the game seemed to try and paint them with the former leaders of the empire and Ala Mhigo...while Nanamo seemingly wanders around the halls of her palace in Ul'dah doing not much of anything I can take interest in.

There are loads of us who, when we have to be selective as to what game world we want to spend time in, will easily choose the world that delivers on the sort of fantasy that kingdoms, grand duchies, empires, etc. bring. I may have at one point been willing to entertain a system like Sharlayan's but we can't even get a decent republic with some intrigue after they declawed the nation in Endwalker. So, if that's all we can get copypasted several times over throughout the world, I can't see myself sticking around for the same in 7.0.

At least FFXVI seems to be delivering on the sort of world elements I like to see in abundance. We get a Grand Duchy we can fight to save, an Empire whose cultural lore has seemingly been developed extensively, a kingdom shrouded in mystery, and even a hint at things not all being well within the Dhalmekian Republic, given Hugo's direct criticism of his country's parliament. Meanwhile in FFXIV once the story reaches the point where the liberated nation XYZ now is in the process of forming its new democratic system we're expected to hooray! And readily accept this as inherently good.

All that's done is suck magic out of the world nation by nation, and I don't want to play a story that has me doing the same thing again to yet another country the Scions feel the need to go "liberate."

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

post

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I felt like the manner in which Final Fantasy XV handled monarchies was rather enjoyable. Not always framed as in the right, General Glauca's primary motive was that he felt not enough was being done for non-Insomnian refugees and citizens and he was far from the only individual who saw Regis' Kingdom and people as a more antagonistic force. While the game largely painted Insomnia as the good guys, it was nice to see too separate sides represented semi-equally. I imagine the primary reason Kingsglaive Titus was framed as the aggressor is due to his violent and radical methods, but otherwise his motivations were largely sympathetic.

All of this just goes to say while there's nothing inherently wrong about non-monarchic settings, it doesn't feel like Final Fantasy XIV has done this quite yet and it would simply be nice to see in my humble opinion. Heavensward got the closest, but then Thordan kinda kickstarted the apple barrel's spoiling and so it all went splat in the end. I never quite felt like it went as far as Titus/Glauca and his subordinates did, even if most of that lore comes from side-content lore like the Kingsglaive movie.

Dude I wish I could "like" this ten times. The ONLY thing I liked about the base Endwalker story was the implication at the end that the Scions were disbanding. I was hapyp that maybe I wouldn't have to see another fakeout death from Y'shtola in the future or more of the same again and again...

...then literally the VERY next major patch, they're back. Where is the emotional weight of them disbanding?

If someone is playing XIV MSQ for the first time as-of 6.3, they can see the scions disbanding and reforming in less than 10 minutes of gameplay. They need to just get rid of them and maybe have them make VERY SMALL cameos/sidequests in the future.

There is a way to not see any of the other Scions in 7.0

Unsub.

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Originally Posted by OvernightSiren

Dude I wish I could "like" this ten times. The ONLY thing I liked about the base Endwalker story was the implication at the end that the Scions were disbanding. I was hapyp that maybe I wouldn't have to see another fakeout death from Y'shtola in the future or more of the same again and again...

...then literally the VERY next major patch, they're back. Where is the emotional weight of them disbanding?

If someone is playing XIV MSQ for the first time as-of 6.3, they can see the scions disbanding and reforming in less than 10 minutes of gameplay. They need to just get rid of them and maybe have them make VERY SMALL cameos/sidequests in the future.

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They didn't disband. You missed the next part of the cutscene. Alphinaud says that's what the story will be. They told the outside world they disbanded and keep the truth among themselves.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

They didn't disband. You missed the next part of the cutscene. Alphinaud says that's what the story will be. They told the outside world they disbanded and keep the truth among themselves.

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But it's still horrible paced though. (●´ω｀●)ゞ
"Oh, we're going to let people think we disbanded and lay low for a bit."
4/7 of the main-battle Scions come back the next patch.

Another issues I have is that it feels like focus shifted to Y'shtola for no real reason.
They advertised 6.1 as being a brand new adventure, where we return to our adventuring roots and go on a fun treasure hunt with Estinien, which we do but immediately once we get to the end of the dungeon, she spearheads us into her world-traversal plot. Y'shtola's one of the scions who regularly take the leadership position (along side Thancred and Alphinaud depending what needs to be done) so it just feels like we're back to business as usual.
It doesn't help that she's been getting a lot of the cutesy fanservice bits (sleeping on a pile books, froth and foam, her interactions with Zero, etc.). (；´д｀)ゞ

I'm like 99% sure this is a troll thread to offend every player who actually enjoys the game and story. I love my scions and wish to see a lot more of them. They genuinely make me happy to be around and i love when the story involves them. Great job op, you and your several other threads have bothered me, you can move on to greater heights elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Zachia

I'm like 99% sure this is a troll thread to offend every player who actually enjoys the game and story. I love my scions and wish to see a lot more of them. They genuinely make me happy to be around and i love when the story involves them. Great job op, you and your several other threads have bothered me, you can move on to greater heights elsewhere.

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Just because someone has an opinion you don't like automatically makes them a troll. (●´∀｀●)
A person can like something and still see flaws in it and voicing their opinions in a constructive way is in-service of that.
Instead of shooting other's opinions down, maybe you could show your support of the Scions and the story by articulating what it is you like about them in a civil and constructive manner. ヾ(・∀・｀*)ﾉ☆

Other than alphie being annoying because he felt above everyone else in ARR, and got better in Heavensward, to actually being enjoyable in Stormblood there is absolutely nothing wrong with them? Who cares if they don't die to tragedies? They are friendly, lovable, relatable, and have personalities unlike a lot of players in most video games who's personality boils down "me kill and get loot, me happy" or "me have biggest dps, me the bestest". The scions are written to actually care about you (WoL) and thats a welcome change that i don't experience in most video games let alone real life. I don't need some advance complicated character who goes through 20 hoops to get to some plot twist in the end. I enjoy simple things and most of these people just want the scions to die because their lives arent at risk in the story? I mean its a MMORPG the good guys are always going to win in the end. We may or may not lose some characters but you the main character will always live, and will always win in the end in one form or another. OP has several threads he has posted up which is just sheer negativity, it makes it look like he's actively trying to say that everything about the game sucks and such negativity suits no one. He seeks attention, and negative attention seekers are more likely trolls.