Option to privatize or opt-out of lodestone displaying character. Show your support!

a year ago some made a reddit post about this as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ling_stalking/

and you may ask how often. It happens a decent amount of times but how ever how often do we all hear about them?

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Originally Posted by Corrupted

Given what I said already, how else am I supposed to know who they are in order to blacklist if I don't keep track of them (and their frequent name changes)? I don't know how the blacklist handles characters on a different data center, but if it is anything like friendlist then yeah I would first need to wait for them to be in the same DC/world to blacklist them (which they currently aren't, and is the problem)

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Ideally, you should blacklist players as soon as they do something that makes you not want to talk to them again and you don't need the lodestone to do this. If they are on the same world region on another data center, I think you are able to travel to their current server and blacklist them*. It's a healthier alternative than tracking someone for years.

*https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...25cb0c1c99b3c4

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Blacklist

Players blacklisted from the other logical DC will remain on the list and no change will be made to the display.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Ideally, you should blacklist players as soon as they do something that makes you not want to talk to them again and you don't need the lodestone to do this. If they are on the same world region on another data center, I think you are able to travel to their current server and blacklist them*. It's a healthier alternative than tracking someone for years.

*https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...25cb0c1c99b3c4

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You can blacklist players, as long as you are not in a duty, or in a number of other instaced areas, and it will do nothing to keep them from seeing you or being able to mess with you, just sending messages or other requests to you.
The blacklist system as it is needs work. I've seen plenty of disagreements in parties where it could be solved by blacklisting. You have to leave the instance, blacklist them, and then go back into the instance, which is a lot of work as well as in DF you are going to take a 30 minute ban on queueing.

and this is all besides the fact that blaclisting is per character, so it can be side stepped by making a new character, and then going to a major city to harass the player. There's no way to currently deal with this since things are treated as a per-character basis instead of account wide. If someone wants to they can make as many alternate level 1 characters as they want to harass you, and you cannot do anything about it until each character sends a message

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

You can blacklist players, as long as you are not in a duty, or in a number of other instaced areas, and it will do nothing to keep them from seeing you or being able to mess with you, just sending messages or other requests to you.
The blacklist system as it is needs work. I've seen plenty of disagreements in parties where it could be solved by blacklisting, particularly the people who have extremely long macros with sounds in them. If you don't like that you have to leave the instance, blacklist them, and then go back into the instance, which is a lot of work as well as in DF you are going to take a 30 minute ban on queueing.

and this is all besides the fact that blaclisting is per character, so it can be side stepped by making a new character, and then going to a major city to harass the player. There's no way to currently deal with this since things are treated as a per-character basis instead of account wide. If someone wants to they can make as many alternate level 1 characters as they want to harass you, and you cannot do anything about it until each character send their first chat message to you.

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And how is tracking the perp on the lodestone an upgrade compared to using the blacklist feature?

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Originally Posted by Reinha

And how is tracking the perp on the lodestone an upgrade compared to using the blacklist feature?

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It's not, but there needs to be an overhaul on both features since both are entirely awful for dealing with abuse. Both the Blacklist and the Lodestone do basically nothing to stop someone from finding you, and spamming level 1 alts at you until you either delete your character or they get bored.
Both need heavy overhauls and the privacy options are completely insufficient for a modern game this size.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's not, but there needs to be an overhaul on both features since both are entirely awful for dealing with abuse. Both the Blacklist and the Lodestone do basically nothing to stop someone from finding you, and spamming level 1 alts at you until you either delete your character or they get bored.
Both need heavy overhauls and the privacy options are completely insufficient for a modern game this size.

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I agree. Blacklisting someone should blacklist all characters on the entire account, and only show a snapshot of the name+server of the blacklisted character from the time it was added to the blacklist (this would prevent blacklist from being used as a tracking tool).

I'm not sure what other things can be done about harassment done with lvl 1 trial characters but being able to hide yourself on the lodestone before changing your name would be a sure way to prevent that.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Who's job is it then? If you care about someone then it isn't about who's job it is, it's providing them a courtesy by making them aware of their own mistakes. And no, they will not self-reflect and correct if they are coddled. This is not how the human brain works. They will in fact do the exact opposite.


Listen to what you're saying here. The victim has to make their lodestone private, change their name, change their server. And in the worse cases, they might have to start all over again. All the while you give the harasser the ability to do the same thing with their own account(s). If you cannot see what is wrong here, then I do not know how to explain it further. You need to realize that in one breath you're saying that a player making their lodestone private will protect them, and then when you argue in the next breath you say that the harasser making their lodestone private won't protect them.


If this is how you feel, then let them do their job. If this is how you feel, then what is the point of this thread? Please understand that I am on your side, and I don't want harassment and stalking taking place in any form on this game, or any other, or any other platform. I want the offenders punished, and made an example of to let others would be arseholes know what awaits them should they decide to violate the ToS instead of allowing others to maintain an enjoyable experience while online.

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I'm sorry, but do you understand the concept of the information that player would have access to and the information that GMs would have access to? Because it sounds like it flew right over your head, and that makes the world of difference here.

If the profile is set to private, it protects someone who may be the victim of harassment since there is no way for a user to find them as they can't access that profile and have no access to internal identifiers - i.e. system identifiers. It protects them from a harasser.

However, there should be internal systems at SE that don't care about whether the profile is private or not, and there are people with access - possible SE employees, maybe not - could be GMs, whatever- who can look up a character and track them no matter what they do. Thus a harasser is NOT protected, if they change their name , change their profile settings, change servers, etc.

Personally, I would have the lodestone profile set to private by default, but at least- have a private option.

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Originally Posted by Senn

It doesn't matter. People should have the option to privatize regardless of how common stalking and harassment is. If you change your username in WoW, their version of lodestone doesn't link the profile with the old username. There are plenty of MMOs that don't even have a lodestone-like feature. It's not necessary. We don't need to play this game of "Just how common is it really?"

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It wasn't a game. It was a simple wonder but alright. Can't wait for the day where everything is locked down to prevent anything from happening /s

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I'm sorry, but do you understand the concept of the information that player would have access to and the information that GMs would have access to? Because it sounds like it flew right over your head, and that makes the world of difference here.

If the profile is set to private, it protects someone who may be the victim of harassment since there is no way for a user to find them as they can't access that profile and have no access to internal identifiers - i.e. system identifiers. It protects them from a harasser.

However, there should be internal systems at SE that don't care about whether the profile is private or not, and there are people with access - possible SE employees, maybe not - could be GMs, whatever- who can look up a character and track them no matter what they do. Thus a harasser is NOT protected, if they change their name , change their profile settings, change servers, etc.

Personally, I would have the lodestone profile set to private by default, but at least- have a private option.

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Exactly this. Stalking and harassing is against the ToS, so just report the person doing it. Even if they hide their lodestone profile, change their name, and transfer their server, a GM can still find them. I don't know why people seem to think this system can be abused, and the harassers hiding their lodestone will have zero consequences. That's not how it would work at all. Just make sure you fill out all the necessary information in your report (date, time, etc...)

Wondering if there has been any news regarding privatization options. Haven't really been keeping up with any liveletters or anything.
Also, has the friendlist 2-way removal thing been implemented yet?

I seen a youtube video earlier about that Bill Murray guy. Someone dropped his lodestone ID in the youtube comments so people could keep following him through name changes. Now I don't condone what Bill did. But the fact that it's as simple as dropping a lodestone ID in a comment section is all it takes to stalk a person eternally is really alarming to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Remish

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Don't know anything about it. What happened?

Private lodestone profiles would mean I can’t dig up someone’s profile and ad hom them on the forums for how bad they are at the game. Which kinda defeats the purpose of the OF.

Does anyone expect Square Enix Holdings co., Ltd. to invest in decent online infrastructure? This is the same company that made FFXIV 1.0, Forespoken, and Foamstars. A broken clock is right twice a day, and it’s published exactly two good games in the past decade (FFXIV and FF7R). Don’t count on them caring about stalking and privacy anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Don't know anything about it. What happened?

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This video link probably explains it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8spqIpQBfM

TL;DR, This guy named Bill who ran the Achievement hunting discord for NA was caught cheating and using hacks. Was called out, reported and other things. In a fit of rage he deleted the discord and now the FFXIV community has seen to it that he get's banned from several discords like Balance, Revival Wings, PvP, and other things so that he is basically incapable of ever enjoying the game, since he lied, gloated, bragged, and was a hypocrite. Rumor has it that he name changed and still uses mods/hacks to cheat so his lodestone is put on public blast so people can keep tabs on his whereabouts. Things got so bad, he deleted his Twitter, Twitch, and Patreon to go into hiding. He was a somewhat successful small time content creator before this. Additionally, he was supposedly caught buying clears. The people he bought clears from leaked his logs and client information to prove he bought carries from them. But the thing that has the community up in arms is that he used speed hacks in Rival Wings and then tried to act like he wasn't cheating.

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Originally Posted by Remish

This video link probably explains it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8spqIpQBfM

TL;DR, This guy named Bill who ran the Achievement hunting discord for NA was caught cheating and using hacks. Was called out, reported and other things. In a fit of rage he deleted the discord and now the FFXIV community has seen to it that he get's banned from several discords like Balance, Revival Wings, PvP, and other things so that he is basically incapable of ever enjoying the game, since he lied, gloated, bragged, and was a hypocrite. Rumor has it that he name changed and still uses mods/hacks to cheat so his lodestone is put on public blast so people can keep tabs on his whereabouts. Things got so bad, he deleted his Twitter, Twitch, and Patreon to go into hiding.

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Wow. I really don't condone what either side is doing here. I think some people just have sick satisfaction harassing others and feel justified in doing so. Yeah they cheated and should be reported. It's wrong and action should be taken on their account for violating ToS for sure, but having other players take it upon themselves to track this guy... Just report it and let GM's handle it. Crazy.
Does this guy get harassed via /tells?

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Originally Posted by Senn

Wow. I really don't condone what either side is doing here. I think some people just have sick satisfaction harassing others and feel justified in doing so. Yeah they cheated and should be reported. It's wrong and action should be taken on their account for violating ToS for sure, but having other players take it upon themselves to track this guy... Just report it and let GM's handle it. Crazy.
Does this guy get harassed via /tells?

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I'm not sure. I have heard other stories that after this incident happened, he was supposedly sexually harassing women. Flexing his achievement score to get women to want to be romantically involved with him but I haven't seen any proof to back those claims up.

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Originally Posted by Remish

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There is zero excuse for that level of personal harassment from anyone who plays this game. Present evidence to SE for a possible ban? Sure. But this ... it's way overboard, regardless of how ticked off someone might be.

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Originally Posted by Remish

I'm not sure. I have heard other stories that after this incident happened, he was supposedly sexually harassing women. Flexing his achievement score to get women to want to be romantically involved with him but I haven't seen any proof to back those claims up.

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huh, "sexually harassing women" is one of the most common accusations everyone gets on the internet, I stopped believing this sort of stuff after the 2nd time it turned out to be just vindictive people trying to pile on stuff on someone they didn't like

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Originally Posted by Remish

I'm not sure. I have heard other stories that after this incident happened, he was supposedly sexually harassing women. Flexing his achievement score to get women to want to be romantically involved with him but I haven't seen any proof to back those claims up.

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What woman gets the hots for that?

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Originally Posted by Remish

I seen a youtube video earlier about that Bill Murray guy. Someone dropped his lodestone ID in the youtube comments so people could keep following him through name changes. Now I don't condone what Bill did. But the fact that it's as simple as dropping a lodestone ID in a comment section is all it takes to stalk a person eternally is really alarming to say the least.

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I mean he kind of did it too myself. From what I understood he got caught cheating and his account should have been perma banned. the game is ridiculously easy for most things barring savage and ultimates. I also heard lodestone character id number doesn't change and its a fixed thing server side as long as someone has that, they can always find the character information, but thats just what I heard. The dude took a chance with cheating and got busted by the discord and such. bur people rely on the data for more accurate player population and such because of said achievements being public.

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Originally Posted by Remish

I'm not sure. I have heard other stories that after this incident happened, he was supposedly sexually harassing women. Flexing his achievement score to get women to want to be romantically involved with him but I haven't seen any proof to back those claims up.

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Not much else to say on that since it's just a rumor but if that's happening inside the game, all people need to do is report it. Anything happening outside of ffxiv, like in discord and etc. I don't think SE can do anything about it? Unless it's a super rare instance like when people got warned/banned for having mods on stream.
I know some people are going to look at this and say that having your lodestone information public is a good thing so guys like this don't get away but... You have to look at the other side of this as well. If he keeps acting like a punk in the game, then that behavior is easy to spot even with a name change. Perhaps you won't know it's the same exact person, but if they are violating the ToS all the same, then you can just report that. But what about an innocent person who is just trying to get away from a creepy stalker? They can't ever get away unless they leave everything behind.

I'm just typing my thoughts by the way, I'm not disagreeing with your post - not that there was anything to disagree with.

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

What woman gets the hots for that?

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I just told my husband to quit his job and work on that achievement score.

Achievement scores...

https://i.imgur.com/aCa33PT.gif

Public directory being around since the beginning and a decade is great because your player number never changes and that is why it's excellent. Stealing from free companies, or people, changing server and name. You're not going kapoof. Harass raid group or people in a different life, people will know. The great achievement "hunter" was taken down over their own ineptitude. Tried to cover it up saying they play on PS5, but when you open their profile in-game they had no PSN ID. It's public knowledge if you are console to other console players. It's always better to police in-policy than take away functionality that has way more upside.

Also several people might just have outdated information. ToS was beefed up a in 2021 to allows SE to connect you to the game in anyway they see fit. Whether streaming, videos, or social media. YoshiP went after TOP world firsts that posted their video of mods. People being toxic to players on stream? Ban. Spoiling patch content on twitter before game is live? Banned. General nuisance behavior such as stalking episodes is covered, and maybe some just need to start sending reports. It doesn't matter if they see your name in blue or orange, it doesn't change the policy.


Please note that Square Enix may conduct investigations and issue a penalty in its discretion even if a report has not been filed if the act was confirmed publicly through online video, streaming services, or other means."

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Originally Posted by technole

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I don't agree with this.
- Don't give people you don't know well enough access to your FC chest.
- If you are being harassed in ffxiv, just report it, block them, and move on.
- If someone is cheating/violating the ToS, report them and move on.

I don't think the lodestone was ever meant to be used as a tool to publicly ostracize and stalk people, but that's what some people are using it for. It is not your responsibility to track people down like that - let the GM's handle it.
We also don't know for sure if this person was sending inappropriate and harassing messages to women on ffxiv. It's a rumor. But if it's true, then these women should report it and then block him. In fact, I think it would be far worse if these women were being stalked and harassed by him and can't get away without deleting years worth of progress because they can't hide their lodestone.

I find it more important to protect people from harassment and stalking than it is to track down a cheater for cheating in a video game. Yes, cheating is such a stupid thing to do, but the priority should be the victims of harassment and stalking.

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

What woman gets the hots for that?

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Same thing I thought. Actually laughed someone using that as a pickup line.

"Hey baby, my achievement points prove I know how to score."

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Same thing I thought. Actually laughed someone using that as a pickup line.

"Hey baby, my achievement points prove I know how to score."

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""Sup Girl, How do I get our Reputation to Rank 9?""

...god that would be so awful XD

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Originally Posted by Kyssa

I just told my husband to quit his job and work on that achievement score.

Achievement scores...

https://i.imgur.com/aCa33PT.gif

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Wait you married him BEFORE he had a good achievement score? Girl get some standards damn.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Same thing I thought. Actually laughed someone using that as a pickup line.

"Hey baby, my achievement points prove I know how to score."

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Unfortunately it only proves he knows how to use his hands and most likely nothing else…

Just wanted to bump this thread as I think it's a topic worth discussing, and the change this thread is requesting is worth supporting. Please remember to leave a 'like' on the OP of this thread to show your support.

Here's a recent article I found in regards to stalking/harassment on ffxiv. Not only is it hard to get away from stalkers in real life, you can't even get away from them in game - a place where you're supposed to have fun and chill.
Tokyo Resident Arrested for Stalking, Including in Final Fantasy 14
Reddit post on this topic


Post from the reddit thread: "Friend of mine had a stalker in game. Reported to gm they told them they cannot reprimand the user Peraon stalked them endlessly, following them between tp zones and even server moving. Would harass in shout and whisper chat. Friend took a year quit cos of the harassment. Came back swapped server again and name changed out of fear. The stalker found them within a day and resumed the harassment. Gm once again said nothing to be done about it. Friend has permantly quit due tonthe game enabling abusive stalkers. :,("

There's a bit of a issue...well planet ending one really. You allow people to privatize their lodestone..this gonna be used by stalkers, trolls, groomers, pedos, ragers, ppl who burn bridges, scammers, fc scammers etc

The idea would work if the bad element wasn't in the game. It's fine as it is. If you end up making people mad then expect to be looked up...if you change your character name then expect it to be found. If you like a certain person on Ada then don't expect to hide.

Just don't give people a reason to even wanna look you up and you golden

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Originally Posted by Senn

Post from the reddit thread: "Friend of mine had a stalker in game. Reported to gm they told them they cannot reprimand the user Peraon stalked them endlessly, following them between tp zones and even server moving. Would harass in shout and whisper chat. Friend took a year quit cos of the harassment. Came back swapped server again and name changed out of fear. The stalker found them within a day and resumed the harassment. Gm once again said nothing to be done about it. Friend has permantly quit due tonthe game enabling abusive stalkers. :,("

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So having been thru this. Gm's are useless as anything. Even with proof they won't do anything and the one GM that did anything got in trouble for it on primal when it came to venue spam.

On the other side of the blade though. There is known instances of GM's literally saving their friends when reported. I knew of a fc on adamantoise that one of its members was friends with a GM. So they got away with a ton of stuff. Came crashing down on that fc when the person who knew the gm left though.

A major overhaul of the GM core needs to happen and they frankly need to take stuff more seriously when reported.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

You allow people to privatize their lodestone..this gonna be used by stalkers, trolls, groomers, pedos, ragers, ppl who burn bridges, scammers, fc scammers etc

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No, because it doesn't matter to a GM if your lodestone is private or not. If you violate the ToS and are reported for it, action will be taken on your account by a GM.
I'm not sure why the GM didn't help that one reddit poster's friend, but I think more often than not, GM's will step in if the ToS is violated.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

There's a bit of a issue...well planet ending one really. You allow people to privatize their lodestone..this gonna be used by stalkers, trolls, groomers, pedos, ragers, ppl who burn bridges, scammers, fc scammers etc

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If people invent locks to lock their doors at night it enables criminals to do the same, but having locks is still better than the alternative. Something being imperfect is not a reason to discard it.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Just wanted to bump this thread as I think it's a topic worth discussing, and the change this thread is requesting is worth supporting. Please remember to leave a 'like' on the OP of this thread to show your support.

Here's a recent article I found in regards to stalking/harassment on ffxiv. Not only is it hard to get away from stalkers in real life, you can't even get away from them in game - a place where you're supposed to have fun and chill.
Tokyo Resident Arrested for Stalking, Including in Final Fantasy 14
Reddit post on this topic


Post from the reddit thread: "Friend of mine had a stalker in game. Reported to gm they told them they cannot reprimand the user Peraon stalked them endlessly, following them between tp zones and even server moving. Would harass in shout and whisper chat. Friend took a year quit cos of the harassment. Came back swapped server again and name changed out of fear. The stalker found them within a day and resumed the harassment. Gm once again said nothing to be done about it. Friend has permantly quit due tonthe game enabling abusive stalkers. :,("

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but honestly after reading, there is more to what was going then just lodestone. Sounds like they exchange personal information hence the mention of getting parents involved on what was said and that. but this is actually what should happen if stalking/harrassment bleeds over to real life. You need to get local law enforcement involved. GMs don't rely on them, they're not verse on laws and such but I agree they need to enforce the ToS more stringent and not give so many strikes before a ban. Harrasement and stuff in game should be an auto perma ban.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

If people invent locks to lock their doors at night it enables criminals to do the same, but having locks is still better than the alternative. Something being imperfect is not a reason to discard it.

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And let's not forget the fact that a lot of these stalkers are making new characters, new accounts, or trial accounts to continue stalking. These stalkers are already "hiding" their lodestones.
So yeah... allowing people to privatize their lodestone, or having lodestones be private by default is the best way to go about this. At least then people who are being stalked and harassed have a way out without losing years of progress on their account.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

but honestly after reading, there is more to what was going then just lodestone. Sounds like they exchange personal information hence the mention of getting parents involved on what was said and that. but this is actually what should happen if stalking/harrassment bleeds over to real life. You need to get local law enforcement involved. GMs don't rely on them, they're not verse on laws and such but I agree they need to enforce the ToS more stringent and not give so many strikes before a ban. Harrasement and stuff in game should be an auto perma ban.

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GMs can't get involved in matters like these outside of the game obviously, but at least make it so that's not possible in the game. The current lodestone system is no good because it can enable stalking/harassing behavior.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

There's a bit of a issue...well planet ending one really. You allow people to privatize their lodestone..this gonna be used by stalkers, trolls, groomers, pedos, ragers, ppl who burn bridges, scammers, fc scammers etc

The idea would work if the bad element wasn't in the game. It's fine as it is. If you end up making people mad then expect to be looked up...if you change your character name then expect it to be found. If you like a certain person on Ada then don't expect to hide.

Just don't give people a reason to even wanna look you up and you golden

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You allow people to privatize their lodestone..this gonna be used by stalkers, trolls, groomers, pedos, ragers, ppl who burn bridges, scammers, fc scammers etc

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Yeah so just like now, except that as of right now, only the victim of harassement gets stalked and harassed, while the stalker/harasser has no repercussions since they'll just keep making new chars to avoid blacklist.

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Just don't give people a reason to even wanna look you up and you golden

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Nice victim blaming there, good job chief, you're also the type to tell women "Well dont wear a skirt if you dont want to get harassed on the street" arent you ?

I support this completely. I don't wholly get the detractors, I understand how the thirst for vigilante justice is irresistible in this community but personally? I firmly believe getting rid of the tools for terrible people to victimize others is a good thing.

People who wish to stalk have all the tools to do it without even trying whereas the person on the receiving end has to watch their surroundings in-game, even if the person is blacklisted. You can and should report them but hear me out: It's easy to make free trial accounts after being banned. There are players notorious for that.

Not to mention the blacklist system is broken, I played this game for TEN years and I didn't know how broken it was until recently. Doesn't matter if you remove someone and blacklist them, you're still on their friendslist and they can easily find out where you are. They can't teleport to your estate but if they already know where it's at then it wouldn't matter if they can't teleport anyway. A friend and I found this out by testing this with each other and we were appalled. Even if the blacklist system had been fixed, if the person who is obsessed already has your lodestone address then nothing will impede them from knowing what name you have and what server you changed to. What then? Delete your character, something that obviously means more to you than it does to them?

I don't believe for a second that GMs can't do anything, they simply choose not to. They could look up chat history, and see what is really going on, especially if the stalker is being reported. Also, if it gives people more privacy, I'm always for that. It's ludicrous to say that privacy helps the aggressor when they're able to make as many alt accounts as necessary while the victim risks their main account that they want to use.

That said, there's a trend, especially with online stalking for victims to almost want some connection with the stalker, if only to track them and feel like they know what they're up to or something. Please, cut off ALL contact with someone stalking you. Any communication, even a "I've reported you" is a win for the stalker. They love to think that you're still thinking about them, focusing on them. The worst you can do to them is never acknowledge them. If you're part of a FC that allows the stalker to participate, then they're enabling the stalker and you need to find a new FC.

It doesn't make sense that others can just look me up. I want to be able to do more than just toggle my achievement to private in lodestone.

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Originally Posted by Senn

GMs can't get involved in matters like these outside of the game obviously, but at least make it so that's not possible in the game. The current lodestone system is no good because it can enable stalking/harassing behavior.

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The Lodestone is only an issue if the player transfers their character to another world and/or name changes.

Other tools already available in game are far easier to use to harass/stalk a player that is online when you know their character name.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The Lodestone is only an issue if the player transfers their character to another world and/or name changes.

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Yeah. That's the problem.