Elitist Housing Must Go. Every Single Player Should Have A House.

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Originally Posted by Akkarin

Yes. This is the 6th time. Same story. FC made of alts winning plots. It's a joke.

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So you blame them for using the solution to the housing issue which is to make an FC and fill them with alts to get more chances to win

Okay then

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

So you blame them for using the solution to the housing issue which is to make an FC and fill them with alts to get more chances to win

Okay then

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No, I don't blame them at all. Mad at them yes. Ultimately the blame lies with the developer - not the individual. I happen to know this particular individual owns another two houses on mains between FC and Private. Ergo; greedy selfish bastards :)

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Originally Posted by Akkarin

No, I don't blame them at all. Mad at them yes. Ultimately the blame lies with the developer - not the individual. I happen to know this particular individual owns another two houses on mains between FC and Private. Ergo; greedy selfish bastards :)

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Or smart because they got the house and you dont.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Or smart because they got the house and you dont.

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Nah, I'll go with greedy and selfish. Noone needs 3+ houses.

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Originally Posted by Akkarin

Nah, I'll go with greedy and selfish. Noone needs 3+ houses.

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I'm sorry who are you again to decide what people should and shouldnt do ?

End of the day, he got the house and you didnt, instead of acting like a child, you can make an FC yourself and get a house instead of crying like a baby that you arent getting it while the solution is right in front of your eyes.

Oh and shall I add, is there anything preventing you from doing the same as them which is to make an fc and get a house ? No ? Didnt think so.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Get more people to bid with you then, and if a plot is too popular, go to a different one. Once again, not rocket science.

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Such sagely advice, thank you.

Apparently what IS rocket science is recognising there's a problem.

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Originally Posted by Akkarin

Such sagely advice, thank you.

Apparently what IS rocket science is recognising there's a problem.

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There is no problem from the moment you can make an FC yourself, which obviously you already did, so get more people to chip in with bids, and then refund them if they win.

If those people didnt bid on multiple characters, so called "real fcs" would anyway, why does it matter who does it ?

The only problem is how scarce housing is on high populated worlds, but they arent going to fix it, so the only solution is to either fill fcs with alts to make sure you win, or move to a different world with less people.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

There is no problem from the moment you can make an FC yourself, which obviously you already did, so get more people to chip in with bids, and then refund them if they win.

If those people didnt bid on multiple characters, so called "real fcs" would anyway, why does it matter who does it ?

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It matters, because the real FC's are real FC's and are entitled to the plots the developers reserved for real FC's.

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Originally Posted by Ramiren

It matters, because the real FC's are real FC's and are entitled to the plots the developers reserved for real FC's.

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Who decides what is a real FC ? What if someone just want to be on their own in their own FC because they dont want to deal with drama or for any other reason, because they are the only ones in it they shouldnt get one ? Based on what ?

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

There is no problem from the moment you can make an FC yourself, which obviously you already did, so get more people to chip in with bids, and then refund them if they win.

If those people didnt bid on multiple characters, so called "real fcs" would anyway, why does it matter who does it ?

The only problem is how scarce housing is on high populated worlds, but they arent going to fix it, so the only solution is to either fill fcs with alts to make sure you win, or move to a different world with less people.

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It's ok, we're not going to see eye to eye here which is fine. You either don't agree with or are missing the point I'm making entirely.

I think it's wrong, greedy and selfish to be monopolising housing in any way. Building systems predicated on players being "reasonable" is a pipe dream. So do I blame the players? No. Am I mad at the situation? Yes. Do I think the solution lies with the developer? Yes. Is it arguably too late at this point for any real solution? Pretty much.

So what's the next steps?

Bid again. For the 17th time. Fight against personal buyers using alt-populated-FCs to get around the system. You think that's ok, I don't.

Bottom line: Noone needs 3+ houses. Period.

Oh please, stop with the sophistry, an FC is intended to be a social group as you well know.

How do you build a social group with you and your alts.

I mean, at the end of the day, whatever the reason, anyone “collecting” houses when there’s a shortage is selfish. Yeah maybe the rules allow it, but that doesn’t make it any less of a selfish thing to do. And people have a right to be upset about it.

Yes the ire should be directed towards getting the rules locked down so it doesn’t happen anymore. No doubt.

But when multi-house owners and their supporters come here and defend the practice, it’s just adding insult to injury, and usually quite heavy on the insult side. No one complaining about the housing shortage is a crybaby. Maybe we could all get houses by creating fake FCs, and I don’t judge anyone who felt like they had to do it to get A (read: single) house. But if you’re doing it for multiples when there’s a shortage, and feel not one onze of empathy for your fellow players going without, or worse come here to ridicule them? That’s just making a bad situation worse.

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Originally Posted by Ramiren

Oh please, stop with the sophistry, an FC is intended to be a social group as you well know.

How do you build a social group with you and your alts.

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And yet anyone can do it. Which the previous poster can also do, alts are free to make, they can populate their fc with alts to get additional bids, even more if they have other accounts or other friends willing to do the same.

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Originally Posted by Akkarin

It's ok, we're not going to see eye to eye here which is fine. You either don't agree with or are missing the point I'm making entirely.

I think it's wrong, greedy and selfish to be monopolising housing in any way. Building systems predicated on players being "reasonable" is a pipe dream. So do I blame the players? No. Am I mad at the situation? Yes. Do I think the solution lies with the developer? Yes. Is it arguably too late at this point for any real solution? Pretty much.

So what's the next steps?

Bid again. For the 17th time. Fight against personal buyers using alt-populated-FCs to get around the system. You think that's ok, I don't.

Bottom line: Noone needs 3+ houses. Period.

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Not up to you to decide who needs 3 houses or above and who needs less. For some people its their hobby, I dont know who you think you are that you can dictate who gets what.

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

I mean, at the end of the day, whatever the reason, anyone “collecting” houses when there’s a shortage is selfish. Yeah maybe the rules allow it, but that doesn’t make it any less of a selfish thing to do. And people have a right to be upset about it.

Yes the ire should be directed towards getting the rules locked down so it doesn’t happen anymore. No doubt.

But when multi-house owners and their supporters come here and defend the practice, it’s just adding insult to injury, and usually quite heavy on the insult side. No one complaining about the housing shortage is a crybaby. Maybe we could all get houses by creating fake FCs, and I don’t judge anyone who felt like they had to do it to get A (read: single) house. But if you’re doing it for multiples when there’s a shortage, and feel not one onze of empathy for your fellow players going without, or worse come here to ridicule them? That’s just making a bad situation worse.

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I'm telling them that if they want a house that bad, the solution is right there, they already have an FC, they can add additional chances by creating alts, bidding with their friends and hell shall I say even ask the friends to add additional bids. There is literally nothing preventing them from doing so

Genuine question: do the plots in the mixed wards (i.e. bids can be placed by FCs and Private buyers) generally have more or less bids on them than the ones in the FC only wards? Is there something more attractive (to the sort of people who engage in the behavior being discussed) about the FC-only wards?

I'm over this conversation now.

tldr; there's no problem with the system and it's on the players for being dumb or not doing it right/using exploits/loopholes. Got it.

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Originally Posted by Akkarin

Why woud anyone need, note the use of and the meaning of the word, 3+ houses? Help me understand that.

Want != Need.

Hobby != Need

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Are you asking me why someone who's hobby is housing why they would want more house ?

So if your hobby was buying cars for example, are you only going to buy 2 or 3 of them or are you going to buy more if you have the means ?

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Genuine question: do the plots in the mixed wards (i.e. bids can be placed by FCs and Private buyers) generally have more or less bids on them than the ones in the FC only wards? Is there something more attractive (to the sort of people who engage in the behavior being discussed) about the FC-only wards?

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FC's mostly go on FC wards because there's no personal bids on them which makes it easier to bid and get houses instead of fighting agaisnt people bidding as personal.

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To the below posts since limit reached

You are talking about getting houses to sell them and make profit, which is not true at least for most.

And if people want to bid as FC for fc wards, in their own FC, they can have at it, blame SE for the house scarcity ,not the players using fcs to get easier access to houses.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Are you asking me why someone who's hobby is housing why they would want more house ?

So if your hobby was buying cars for example, are you only going to buy 2 or 3 of them or are you going to buy more if you have the means ?

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I guess the point being made here is, to use your analogy, the person is buying lots of cars but has no intention of actually driving/enjoying them and only purchased them in order to sell them off and make a profit?

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Are you asking me why someone who's hobby is housing why they would want more house ?

So if your hobby was buying cars for example, are you only going to buy 2 or 3 of them or are you going to buy more if you have the means ?



FC's mostly go on FC wards because there's no personal bids on them which makes it easier to bid and get houses instead of fighting agaisnt people bidding as personal.

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"there's no personal bids" aside from those building FCs for the express purpose of getting additional housing with less competition. As discussed.

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Originally Posted by Akkarin

"there's no personal bids" aside from those building FCs for the express purpose of getting additional housing with less competition. As discussed.

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Fair enough. It was me who posed the question - she answered. I admittedly haven't paid enough attention to the whole process to notice this one way or another.

I refer you back to this:

"note the use of and the meaning of the word" the "word" here being NEED.

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Originally Posted by Akkarin

When people are sitting on 3+ houses between them and their alts and there's others with no houses it's far from equal.

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I'm sorry to hear my friend... I also lost my bid 5 bids was the lowest it went on any house on my server and now they are all pretty much gone so no hope in sight of owning a house anytime in the next 6 months to a year if I continue to play this game which I probably won't be doing very much until they fix this ridiculous ancient outdated system they have.

Instanced gaming is the future please come to the future the bar has been set by other MMOs and SE is falling behind hard.

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Originally Posted by Pablomaldito

Wanna know what's more boring than having an instanced house?

Having no house.

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Hell yeah!!! Instanced housing is fun as hell!!

We have instanced housing and nobody uses it.
There are 27,000 apartments per world, which dwarfs the demand for housing.

I know apartments are only a small space, but you'd think people desperate to decorate their own space would at least want that much over nothing at all.

Yet I very rarely ever see players with apartments. I think I have about 3 (out of 30+) on my friendslist with apartments.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Happy

Instanced gaming is the future please come to the future the bar has been set by other MMOs and SE is falling behind hard.

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This… because all the other arguing and animosity goes away if everyone just has access to an instanced house. Heck let the hobbyists have multiples if they want to, because with instanced, no one else has to go without so you can indulge your passion!

To be clear though, when I say instanced, what I want from that is the inside and outside of a plot, that works the same way it does now, only instanced, with the ability to choose the ward theme/plot appearance/size. I don’t want the existing wards to go away or take anything away from anyone else. I just want everyone to be able to have the house they want.

And realistically, it’s the only way that everyone can have their dream home. There are never going to be enough mediums and larges to satisfy demand without some serious redesigns that are most likely not going to happen. There’s what? 6 larges a ward, including the subdivision? Instanced housing allows for the possibility of upgrading, whether they make it through just paying the extra gil or some kind of remodeling permit. Or the ability to go back and forth between sizes and decide what you like best.

I have an apartment an FC apartment a shared house and an my FC has a large house but NO house of my own...

Zero reason for all players to not have a house or multiple houses. Look at any other current/successful MMO with housing...

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

We have instanced housing and nobody uses it.
There are 27,000 apartments per world, which dwarfs the demand for housing.

I know apartments are only a small space, but you'd think people desperate to decorate their own space would at least want that much over nothing at all.

Yet I very rarely ever see players with apartments. I think I have about 3 (out of 30+) on my friendslist with apartments.

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Apartments are great! I have one and also an FC room. But they’re overdue for an update too… you can only squeeze so much in there. There’s so many ideas out there for different apartment sizes and layouts that I really wish would happen.

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

This… because all the other arguing and animosity goes away if everyone just has access to an instanced house. Heck let the hobbyists have multiples if they want to, because with instanced, no one else has to go without so you can indulge your passion!

To be clear though, when I say instanced, what I want from that is the inside and outside of a plot, that works the same way it does now, only instanced, with the ability to choose the ward theme/plot appearance/size. I don’t want the existing wards to go away or take anything away from anyone else. I just want everyone to be able to have the house they want.

And realistically, it’s the only way that everyone can have their dream home. There are never going to be enough mediums and larges to satisfy demand without some serious redesigns that are most likely not going to happen. There’s what? 6 larges a ward, including the subdivision? Instanced housing allows for the possibility of upgrading, whether they make it through just paying the extra gil or some kind of remodeling permit. Or the ability to go back and forth between sizes and decide what you like best.

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Very well written my friend :)

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

Apartments are great! I have one and also an FC room. But they’re overdue for an update too… you can only squeeze so much in there. There’s so many ideas out there for different apartment sizes and layouts that I really wish would happen.

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I couldn't agree more, especially with the squeezing comment. 100 items isn't easy to stay within, especially when most of those items either take up most of the apartment or are tiny objects. Least give us two apartment options, normal (what we have now) and an expanded or upgradable version. Doesn't necessarily have to be two floors or anything, but make it bigger and give more item limit. Even half an apartment-size extra and make apartments 200 item slot.

I know gardening is one of the biggest issues. They need to at least come up with an apartment garden type patch that is 4-6 garden slots to allow apartment owners their own ability to crossbreed pants. Apartments already have a chocobo stable so why not allow apartment users a potted plant item that has 4 slots at the minimum so people can be able to grow their own onions or fruits (?) to change the appearance of their chocobro.

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

This… because all the other arguing and animosity goes away if everyone just has access to an instanced house. Heck let the hobbyists have multiples if they want to, because with instanced, no one else has to go without so you can indulge your passion!

To be clear though, when I say instanced, what I want from that is the inside and outside of a plot, that works the same way it does now, only instanced, with the ability to choose the ward theme/plot appearance/size. I don’t want the existing wards to go away or take anything away from anyone else. I just want everyone to be able to have the house they want.

And realistically, it’s the only way that everyone can have their dream home. There are never going to be enough mediums and larges to satisfy demand without some serious redesigns that are most likely not going to happen. There’s what? 6 larges a ward, including the subdivision? Instanced housing allows for the possibility of upgrading, whether they make it through just paying the extra gil or some kind of remodeling permit. Or the ability to go back and forth between sizes and decide what you like best.

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I agree with what you're saying, but I think we need to bear in mind that even instanced stuff uses server capacity, I'd love instanced housing, I think it'd be a massive improvement to the game, but there need to be limitations. I don't think every newbie on a free trial should get a house, and while I understand that people will want multiples for aesthetic reasons, that's going to be a really hard thing for the developers to sell to their management unless additional housing, beyond your first, is a paid feature, akin to additional retainers.

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Originally Posted by Akkarin

I refer you back to this:

"note the use of and the meaning of the word" the "word" here being NEED.

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Then it should be noted that there is no player in FFXIV that literally "NEEDS" a house.

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Originally Posted by Ramiren

I agree with what you're saying, but I think we need to bear in mind that even instanced stuff uses server capacity, I'd love instanced housing, I think it'd be a massive improvement to the game, but there need to be limitations. I don't think every newbie on a free trial should get a house, and while I understand that people will want multiples for aesthetic reasons, that's going to be a really hard thing for the developers to sell to their management unless additional housing, beyond your first, is a paid feature, akin to additional retainers.

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Adding more wards that need to be permanently loaded is adding more server stress though, while players still aren’t getting what they need, let alone what they want. Just throwing more wards out there hasn’t helped. On my server, we’re maybe one or two more lottos from being full, and there’s 10+ bids on most smalls. All we really have to look forward to now is auto-demo.

I’ve been on the record as saying I would pay for an instanced house if that’s what it takes. I know many feel they’re already paying a sub, why should they pay more? But if that’s what it takes to make it happen, fine, I’ll shell out an extra $5 a month. But yeah I do like the whole “first one free, additional pay a fee” idea! lol

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Originally Posted by PintyMcEars

Then it should be noted that there is no player in FFXIV that literally "NEEDS" a house.

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Need is irrelevant, it's a game, nobody even needs to play in the first place.

The point is, people paid for the game and also pay a sub, and they're gated from content they paid for because SE can't provide enough of it to satisfy demand.

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Originally Posted by Ramiren

Need is irrelevant, it's a game, nobody even needs to play in the first place.

The point is, people paid for the game and also pay a sub, and they're gated from content they paid for because SE can't provide enough of it to satisfy demand.

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Squares Housing Advertisement shows Apartments and shared Houses as Housing too (at least in JP, FR, DE) so content is provided.

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Originally Posted by Ramiren

Need is irrelevant, it's a game, nobody even needs to play in the first place.

The point is, people paid for the game and also pay a sub, and they're gated from content they paid for because SE can't provide enough of it to satisfy demand.

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100% I feel like I need housing in an MMO for me to fully commit to a game.

We have a global standard in the MMO community and expect a certain level of polish/features or we can just go play a different MMO.

I can keep playing this game to see how the raids turn out but with how predatory the housing system is I have no reason to keep playing long term since housing is one of the most important things for me in the endgame.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

Squares Housing Advertisement shows Apartments and shared Houses as Housing too (at least in JP, FR, DE) so content is provided.

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Apartments are not housing, they're "housing lite", you're still missing some functionality, and they aren't nearly as customizable.

All apartments are is FC rooms no ty.

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Originally Posted by Ramiren

Apartments are not housing, they're "housing lite", you're still missing some functionality, and they aren't nearly as customizable.

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Well you dont. Square has a other view on them till they decide that apartments are not going to be advertised as housing in the future. So what you or I want doesnt matter

Can someone please explain the fairness of RNG to me? Or shall we go back to pre totem mount farming?

Please see attached image of my suggestion

https://imgur.com/a/5y1pX4r

https://imgur.com/a/5y1pX4r

lets go to the doctors office or dmv and make the line random because it got too long because a popular streamer broght in a bunch of clients.... seems fair right!?

There are still plenty unsold plots on the new EU servers, idk how the NA ones are looking but. If people want a house there are quite a few available!

I still hope they add larger apartments, I would have one on every single character in a heartbeat. A large apartment with maybe a separate instanced gardening area might be nice, although the amount of ppl wanting a garden just to grow onions should realise a couple things. It takes ages to grow them with cross breeding and also if everyone does it the price tanks and it is no longer worth the time invested. I spent a few months across my own and friends plots gardening and I have hundreds of thav seeds sitting there atm. Although I got lazy one week and lost a couple mill :x

But for those who are desperate for a house idk why you do not either transfer or make an alt. You don't even need to move your main character at all, if housing is important enough you put the effort in. It sucks that you need too but the option is there.