The Lessons Not Learned.

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The Pixies are not benign creatures.

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Chaotic neutral with no moral sense and no conscience. Hence the leafmen.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Chaotic neutral with no moral sense and no conscience. Hence the leafmen.

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Fun for the whole family

Bloody hell you whinge a lot; having an absolute blast in the new 4 mans, relic weapons have happened since ARR and you still don't understand how they work (they are the same as last xpacs start too).

Instead of paying a sub to get attention on the forums just unsub and play things you enjoy more. You'll be better for it (and lord do you need to be better).

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but even so the situation regarding what just released today has to be addressed.

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Nah its fine.

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For a blessing, the Manderville Weapons aren’t the dreaded joke weapons from the Weapon Design Contest but all it takes to get one is 1500 poetics? Seriously?\

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This is stage one. The pain comes later.

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How on earth is this ok?

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Given the tiny fraction of people here, the massive majority playing and enjoying it..Id say thats a rather silly question.

I wonder if Yoshida working on 2 games (or more) is now becoming a detriment. Square-Enix loves to run their talent into the ground. Greetings, Balan, Babylon, Chocobo Racing GP, all these rereleases, crap sequels, etc.

It's a result of a lot of them leaving ;)

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Originally Posted by Minifie

Bloody hell you whinge a lot; having an absolute blast in the new 4 mans, relic weapons have happened since ARR and you still don't understand how they work (they are the same as last xpacs start too).

Instead of paying a sub to get attention on the forums just unsub and play things you enjoy more. You'll be better for it (and lord do you need to be better).

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"I enjoy it so you will do it and you will like it, okay !"

Im curious, Aveyond, if you dont like it..whats YOUR solution?

Lets hear it..what would YOU do differently?

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

"I enjoy it so you will do it and you will like it, okay !"

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Question. Are you here to discuss or are you here to take shots at people taking shots? You've contributed nothing to this thread

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Question. Are you here to discuss or are you here to take shots at people taking shots? You've contributed nothing to this thread

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Say that to all the people attacking OP.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

"I enjoy it so you will do it and you will like it, okay !"

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That's exactly what I said, you are very good at this reading thing. When are you going to move up to conquering Dr Seuss?

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Say that to all the people attacking OP.

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Doesn't answer my question tbf. I'm asking you. I was told I was wrong for pointing out that OP seemingly has shields defending him. Yet I see you here seemingly doing that. I won't say that's 100% what you're doing but I'm wondering if thats the goal here or if you're really here to talk n discuss

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Doesn't answer my question tbf. I'm asking you. I was told I was wrong for pointing out that OP seemingly has shields defending him. Yet I see you here seemingly doing that. I won't say that's 100% what you're doing but I'm wondering if thats the goal here or if you're really here to talk n discuss

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You came to the wrong place if you are after people looking to discuss, because you won't find it here.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Doesn't answer my question tbf. I'm asking you. I was told I was wrong for pointing out that OP seemingly has shields defending him. Yet I see you here seemingly doing that. I won't say that's 100% what you're doing but I'm wondering if thats the goal here or if you're really here to talk n discuss

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It's exactly what's going on. Every so often, we get these garbage takes posted and some people actually white knight the fool in question with their own baseless and awful takes.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

It's exactly what's going on. Every so often, we get these garbage takes posted and some people actually white knight the fool in question with their own baseless and awful takes.

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Thing is I don't think they realize many people would actually be more civil if OP actually discussed things with people. To many times they drop these topics, says a few things to take the high road then dip while others finish for them. Again I won't call it coordinated but it happens all the time. I've asked OP many normal questions but never get a response as ik I'm ignored by him n many of his friends

Also to the person below me...is OP you alls martyr or something?

Honestly glad my subscription expired Thursday Aveyond. I am finally free from this gods awful game. Please continue being the voice of reason amongst the toxic positivity here.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

For a blessing, the Manderville Weapons aren’t the dreaded joke weapons from the Weapon Design Contest

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Contrary to this, I'm kind of low key disappointed that they weren't the joke weapon winners, because I really want to see those weapons added to the game asap. Some peope might be mad about those weapons, but they are outliers. We get those fun weapons once upon a lifetime.

I didn't especially love the Manderville weapon designs because they look kinda generic, giving a "I've seen something like this before" vibe - I hope it turns out to be (subjectively) better with the next steps.

I'm sure the fun weapons will be in there somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I'm sure the fun weapons will be in there somewhere.

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Well sage got tiny spaceships xD

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Contrary to this, I'm kind of low key disappointed that they weren't the joke weapon winners, because I really want to see those weapons added to the game asap. Some peope might be mad about those weapons, but they are outliers. We get those fun weapons once upon a lifetime.

I didn't especially love the Manderville weapon designs because they look kinda generic, giving a "I've seen something like this before" vibe - I hope it turns out to be (subjectively) better with the next steps.

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it'll probably be added to the Gold Saucer

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

Basically if you're the type of person who's bored by normal difficulty stuff but either can't get 8 people together for savage or you just aren't interested in the prog process of wiping for potentially weeks because of other people, you get 1 EX trial roughly every time a new tier comes out and that is it. And people sorta stop running it after the first week because of how the content rollouts work. For example, when Barb EX came out, a week later the new savage came out so everyone I knew stopped caring about barb EX and the PF quality plummeted. I might be off-base here but I think the game's making a mistake by not appealing to this middle of the road group. Maybe criterion dungeons will scratch that itch. idk. People have been asking for harder dungeons for years, but the way the devs phrased its implementation, it sounded like they wanted to just make even more shit for the savage raiding crowd, since it's tuned for savage bis. I genuinely wonder if there's even a place for mid-tier difficulty stuff in this game anymore.

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Lately, I frequently feel like social media is strangling the middle of the road, the ordinary gamer (who are likely like myself, older, decently skilled but definitely had our gaming prime years ago) - specifically, the community's massive over-reliance on Discord.

I'm not against the idea of hopping in voice for content that benefits from it, I'd be fine with having to install Ventrilo or TeamSpeak like old times, but Discord specifically is problematic - specifically the way their Trust and Safety enforcement works, which more or less makes it impossible to run a publicly visible community unless you have an incredible amount of free time. As a result, middle of the road working adults are shut out from having much of a voice; the public face of XIV's community disproportionately slants to the hardcore crowd and SE likely is influenced by what they see.

We need a new platform. Even going back to TS/Vent/IRC would likely be better than the warping effect Discord (a fitting name) has. I'm not sure how to go about persuading people to stop doubling down on Disc, though :(

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Originally Posted by Amarande

Lately, I frequently feel like social media is strangling the middle of the road, the ordinary gamer (who are likely like myself, older, decently skilled but definitely had our gaming prime years ago) - specifically, the community's massive over-reliance on Discord.

I'm not against the idea of hopping in voice for content that benefits from it, I'd be fine with having to install Ventrilo or TeamSpeak like old times, but Discord specifically is problematic - specifically the way their Trust and Safety enforcement works, which more or less makes it impossible to run a publicly visible community unless you have an incredible amount of free time. As a result, middle of the road working adults are shut out from having much of a voice; the public face of XIV's community disproportionately slants to the hardcore crowd and SE likely is influenced by what they see.

We need a new platform. Even going back to TS/Vent/IRC would likely be better than the warping effect Discord (a fitting name) has. I'm not sure how to go about persuading people to stop doubling down on Disc, though :(

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you should try playing in JP DC.
With a strat approved by the community and macros for positioning. No voice chat is necessary.

For once I actually thought this was a good patch. I'd say the best since Endwalker launched. I've been asking for more 4-player content since forever, and dungeons that actually feel like dungeons.
I really don't care that much for DD because I don't think 50~200 floors that recycle squares endlessly are that interesting. Variant and Criterion are the first time since Heavensward I have a reason to be excited for instanced duty.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Question. Are you here to discuss or are you here to take shots at people taking shots? You've contributed nothing to this thread

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They're contributing a lot more than the usual suspects mentally stuck in their 14 years who think their personal obsession with the topic creator justifies derailing the topic.

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For once I actually thought this was a good patch. I'd say the best since Endwalker launched. I've been asking for more 4-player content since forever, and dungeons that actually feel like dungeons.

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I am hearing this sentiment a lot...hope you have a blast with it.

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Originally Posted by Tint

I am more than fine with that. The relic never was about hard content, there are enough weapons you can get from extremes, savage and ultimate fights.

But... the relic was about grind.

It is simply not okay that I can just buy it with the tomestones I already had with me and be done.

I don't want a free weapon. I want something to do.

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im suspecting the grind may come later during the upgrade stages for the relics. It kind of made sense in a way to not the gate initial base relic weapon this patch behind a huge gate like last time.

If I can counter your complaint a bit here: I think the dungeon content was approached just like Island Sanctuary. They were not sure if people would even like it because its a new project they took on. So they kept it rather limited. Why add so much rewards to it if no one likes it by chance? If the project is a major success; I am pretty sure they will have content not just for Uldah, but for Limsa, Gridania, Ishgard, and perhaps more/new locations. Every release will add more and more rewards, and any late player coming in will think of it like a treasure trove. If they put a ton of rewards at the get go, most players will expect that all the time, and therefore they need to spread it out. (Though I do understand waiting is frustrating.)

As for the relic; relics in every expansion is always a grind. However think of it this way; they only gave us the first step of the weapon and now we have to wait for the next update. You will in fact have more than enough time to get 1,500 astronomy tomes for several weapons of your choosing. Heck you could even get all of the first step weapons before the next patch if you ran your rolos everyday, and do other content that drops the tomes. Its not hard to accumulate them with the amount of time they give us between patches. It only will feel like a real grind when a player is late to the show to where one has to do all of the steps back to back, and the grind gets intense. So that is why its easy at the moment, because we are just starting at step 1. I have no idea how good the items will look, but I do know they are trying to appeal to new players more so than veterans.

But let me be honest here; do I think they did the 100% perfect job for rewards? I honestly can't answer. I do feel its rather subjective. If we did not get detective clothes, but instead got a fairy princess glam; the community will still have major agreements and disagreements about that too. Tons of people will support it because its the new thing, and a lot won't. Same thing is happening with what is current. Its hard to please everyone, so I am only speaking from a neutral standpoint.

I don't have any high hopes to begin with, but damn this patch manage to surprise me. I was waiting for relic, for nearly a year, and look at what we get. Another spend X amount of tomestones. ShB had covid as an excuse as to why its first step of relic was such a lackluster. What excuse does EW have?

Some people tried to defend this by saying HW relic isn't that different, but I disagree completely. HW first step require us to farm fates, something that EW relic doesn't even ask of us.

It's tiring how the devs keep getting away with this because the shill knights always work overtime defending the game. For a game that claim to want to go for another 10 year, it certainly feels like it's on managed decline phase.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Im curious, Aveyond, if you dont like it..whats YOUR solution?

Lets hear it..what would YOU do differently?

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Just copy SB relic and continue Bozja/the IV legion story for starter. Smh.

Hasn't the relic always been inferior to tome weapon and raid weapon until the final form which is on par with raid? Am I missing something here?

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Just copy SB relic and continue Bozja/the IV legion story for starter. Smh.

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And thus gate it behind Bozja, which in turn was gated behind Ivalice.

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Just copy SB relic and continue Bozja/the IV legion story for starter. Smh.

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And thus gate it behind Bozja, which in turn was gated behind Ivalice.

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Not to mention virtually no one does it now, finding people for DR is a headache. I liked what i saw of it, but tbh it wasnt future proofed, same with Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

I don't have any high hopes to begin with, but damn this patch manage to surprise me. I was waiting for relic, for nearly a year, and look at what we get. Another spend X amount of tomestones. ShB had covid as an excuse as to why its first step of relic was such a lackluster. What excuse does EW have?

Some people tried to defend this by saying HW relic isn't that different, but I disagree completely. HW first step require us to farm fates, something that EW relic doesn't even ask of us.

It's tiring how the devs keep getting away with this because the shill knights always work overtime defending the game. For a game that claim to want to go for another 10 year, it certainly feels like it's on managed decline phase.

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Who here is shilling though...were pointing out facts. You aren't required to do Fates. That's ONE way to get them. You can turn in your ARR relic to skip that step entirely. Am I a shill for saying I like this first step due to being someone who always gets all 1st step weps for all classes? Or am I just someone who sees things differently? People like you don't get that people can GENUINELY just like something that others don't. Doesn't make them a shill or white knight. You use that terminology to devalue their opinion which only makes you look bitter and upset.

It's also funny you opt for them to copy SB relics...when I've seen your camp complain about the devs being lazy. I bet if they did copy you'd just be upset at the lack or new relic ideas. If the game is on managed decline mode, hey! Save your money now and spend it on things you like n see going the way you want

A person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums with the pretense of sincerity, when in fact he is being paid for his services.

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with said person or organization.
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Just gonna leave these here because it's kinda laughable when people throw words around that they don't know the full meaning to. To be a shill, you kinda need to be in close association with/hired by the company in the question. It's not just anyone with an opinion that doesn't match yours & is in favor of the game is a shill.
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Oh this one is great for shill too:

A word used by conspiracy theorists when they are losing an argument.
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Thanks for coming to my TedTalk, have a good day.

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Originally Posted by Gember

If I can counter your complaint a bit here: I think the dungeon content was approached just like Island Sanctuary. They were not sure if people would even like it because its a new project they took on. So they kept it rather limited. Why add so much rewards to it if no one likes it by chance? If the project is a major success; I am pretty sure they will have content not just for Uldah, but for Limsa, Gridania, Ishgard, and perhaps more/new locations. Every release will add more and more rewards, and any late player coming in will think of it like a treasure trove. If they put a ton of rewards at the get go, most players will expect that all the time, and therefore they need to spread it out. (Though I do understand waiting is frustrating.)

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You’ve just described a self-fulfilling prophecy. Players do content that has rewards they are interested in. The more rewards there are, the more they do it. There are only a handful of rewards and most of them not very compelling attached to this content. They’ve all but ensured that it won’t last long and that interest in doing it will drop sharply after a certain point, with whatever engagement metrics they use reflecting that.

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Originally Posted by Gember

As for the relic; relics in every expansion is always a grind. However think of it this way; they only gave us the first step of the weapon and now we have to wait for the next update. You will in fact have more than enough time to get 1,500 astronomy tomes for several weapons of your choosing. Heck you could even get all of the first step weapons before the next patch if you ran your rolos everyday, and do other content that drops the tomes. Its not hard to accumulate them with the amount of time they give us between patches. It only will feel like a real grind when a player is late to the show to where one has to do all of the steps back to back, and the grind gets intense. So that is why its easy at the moment, because we are just starting at step 1. I have no idea how good the items will look, but I do know they are trying to appeal to new players more so than veterans.

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We wanted something to do that was a little more compelling than run the same content we’ve been running all the time even more. Hence why well-balanced relic zones like Bozja and Zadnor were breaths of fresh air, or even having a reason to hang out in the overworld doing fates in current-expansion zones. To quote another poster:

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Originally Posted by Tint

I don't want a free weapon. I want something to do.

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Moving on then.

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Originally Posted by Gember

But let me be honest here; do I think they did the 100% perfect job for rewards? I honestly can't answer. I do feel its rather subjective. If we did not get detective clothes, but instead got a fairy princess glam; the community will still have major agreements and disagreements about that too. Tons of people will support it because its the new thing, and a lot won't. Same thing is happening with what is current. Its hard to please everyone, so I am only speaking from a neutral standpoint.

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What this content should’ve received is gear that was actually useful, as in I can equip it for stats. Preferably with aesthetics that make sense in the context of the given content. I am not going to entertain anyone that tries to claim that this detective gear is appropriate for a storyline that has to deal with desert ruins. Eureka Pyros and Hydatos rewarded intricate armor pieces that drew upon some aesthetics from Amano artwork. Bozja rewarded gear for its warzone, and then the more Ivalice got involved the more Ivalice gear they gave in Zadnor. WoW Mythic content also rewards gear, so I have no idea why they thought they would get away with just dumping this glamset and unappealing mounts on us and bailing.

Considering that both Eureka and Bozja had "catch-up" gear that was slightly worse then the best stuff available in the same patch cycle, maybe 6.3 will have it available from the new deep dungeon or something.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

You’ve just described a self-fulfilling prophecy. Players do content that has rewards they are interested in. The more rewards there are, the more they do it. There are only a handful of rewards and most of them not very compelling attached to this content. They’ve all but ensured that it won’t last long and that interest in doing it will drop sharply after a certain point, with whatever engagement metrics they use reflecting that.



We wanted something to do that was a little more compelling than run the same content we’ve been running all the time even more. Hence why well-balanced relic zones like Bozja and Zadnor were breaths of fresh air, or even having a reason to hang out in the overworld doing fates in current-expansion zones. To quote another poster:



Moving on then.



What this content should’ve received is gear that was actually useful, as in I can equip it for stats. Preferably with aesthetics that make sense in the context of the given content. I am not going to entertain anyone that tries to claim that this detective gear is appropriate for a storyline that has to deal with desert ruins. Eureka Pyros and Hydatos rewarded intricate armor pieces that drew upon some aesthetics from Amano artwork. Bozja rewarded gear for its warzone, and then the more Ivalice got involved the more Ivalice gear they gave in Zadnor. WoW Mythic content also rewards gear, so I have no idea why they thought they would get away with just dumping this glamset and unappealing mounts on us and bailing.

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Well I for one will be doing the content cause it's fun to do. The rewards are just extra for me. Hell I may nab the glam for Halloween Parties.

If WoW Mythic does it better hey, WoW is a sub away. We already have numerous ways to get gear in the game. I for one am not bent outta shape that they didn't add another.

Boz n Zad weren't exactly fresh air as they were basically Eureka 2.0 but less engaging. Those zone were just glorified hunt trains (fun ones mind you).

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Just gonna leave these here because it's kinda laughable when people throw words around that they don't know the full meaning to. To be a shill, you kinda need to be in close association with/hired by the company in the question. It's not just anyone with an opinion that doesn't match yours & is in favor of the game is a shill.

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PFFFT, people actually understanding the meaning of the Words they use?
Nah, stop that noise, just throw it around cause its a cool sounding Buzzword.

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Originally Posted by Lustre

You use major patch as an example like they aren't just the same patch, neatly sliced into pieces as not to... "overwhelm the community". Which we all know is a lie, it's to drip-feed it for subs and to give the illusion there's "heaps" of content to do, when some things listed will be as minor as a yellow quest with a single cutscene. Nice bad faith take though.

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So you'd want a new MSQ chapter, new side stories (Hildibrand), a new raid tier, a new trial, V&C Dungeons and a relic grind, tribal quests etc... all released at the same time? I'd hate that. The large majority of players can't sit down and play the game 10 hours a day and just dumping a bunch of content all into one patch would be stupid. Its not about "overwhelming" the community, its about giving them time to do things individually and not feel rushed. I absolutely loved that savage this tier was delayed a week for example. For once I felt like I could log in during a new raid tier and actually enjoy the MSQ chapter and do the normal raids and watch all the cutscenes at my own leisure and not feel rushed to burn through it all for raid night.

You also act like all this stuff is just "done" before a major patch comes out, but that's not how development works and that's why other stuff is released in minor patches.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

Honestly glad my subscription expired Thursday Aveyond. I am finally free from this gods awful game. Please continue being the voice of reason amongst the toxic positivity here.

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Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

I don't have any high hopes to begin with, but damn this patch manage to surprise me. I was waiting for relic, for nearly a year, and look at what we get. Another spend X amount of tomestones. ShB had covid as an excuse as to why its first step of relic was such a lackluster. What excuse does EW have?

Some people tried to defend this by saying HW relic isn't that different, but I disagree completely. HW first step require us to farm fates, something that EW relic doesn't even ask of us.

It's tiring how the devs keep getting away with this because the shill knights always work overtime defending the game. For a game that claim to want to go for another 10 year, it certainly feels like it's on managed decline phase.

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i think the making step 1easy now is due to the fact relic comes out 1 year after epac unlike arr were it was available after msq

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

They're contributing a lot more than the usual suspects mentally stuck in their 14 years who think their personal obsession with the topic creator justifies derailing the topic.

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They didn't choose the twitter life, the twitter life chose them, lmao.
While this patch is a bit lean, it's also a .5 update so it is pretty sizeable in that regards. Though considering it was dropped in a .5 patch I wonder how much of this was pushed back from 6.2 or even 6.1 ala the island sanctuary.

But haven't almost all relics started with a stupid easy, done in no time flat, first step? The only one I can think of that took any time was ARR when you had to go out into the world to find the treasure that got turned into the relic. The others were mostly tomestone related, were they not(been a while since I did them, so I could be wrong on some of them)?