What Zero Could've Been

The OP certainly seems to have a grudge against Y’shtola. Shame, outside of her habit of throwing herself into the life stream I think she is an awesome character. I like how the game does not stereotype much of its cast by their gender in the way some RPG games do, like how in the twins its the boy who is the healer/more intellectual of the pair, whilst the girl is the more hot-headed frontline fighter. It should be noted that whilst they may not be popular with the OP and others, overall the playerbase seems to have embraced them. I am not saying that we should not have like, sexy seductress characters or muscle bound hunks (What about a seductive sexy guy?) more variety in character is always a boon, and we will likely be seeing more of that in 7.0, but thats the default for so many games and I think it would be a shame, and unnecessary, to try and make FFXIV fit such a mould when instead it could do its own thing.

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Originally Posted by Thenightvortex

I don’t think liking traditional gender presentation has to do with forcing everyone to fit this mold or thinking that there are things men and women can’t be. It’s about personal enjoyment of an aesthetic in the game and/or irl. I prefer seeing characters who to an extent correspond with their gender role/presentation(without getting into extremes, of course), but I won’t hate a character for straying away from this particular way.

I think most people still enjoy traditional masculinity in men and femininity and women, it doesn’t seem like it will change drastically soon.



Well, good luck with making that happen. Telling people they “should” be in a minority for their tastes comes off as very rude.

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Seconded on the above.

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

I'd rather him have revived Milfilia, I mean Minfilia.

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Always disappointed me they killed off Minfilia. Character got robbed big time.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Always disappointed me they killed off Minfilia. Character got robbed big time.

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But everyone hated minfilia and said she had no character....

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Always disappointed me they killed off Minfilia. Character got robbed big time.

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Having her defect to team Zodiark after she was manipulated by Hydaelyn would've served to make her more compelling, sadly such ideas don't seem to even be anywhere on the radar of the writing team.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Having her defect to team Zodiark after she was manipulated by Hydaelyn would've served to make her more compelling, sadly such ideas don't seem to even be anywhere on the radar of the writing team.

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The real problem was zodiark was a 3 so he couldn't talk to minfilia.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

But everyone hated minfilia and said she had no character....

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Disagree. Especially given her prominence in 1.0 if one knows where to look.

They really got into a habit of killing off some of their characters in Realm Reborn. Minfilia and Moenbryda among these.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Disagree. Especially given her prominence in 1.0 if one knows where to look.

They really got into a habit of killing off some of their characters in Realm Reborn. Minfilia and Moenbryda among these.

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The forums were full of people making threads on how much they disliked minfilia during 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The real problem was zodiark was a 3 so he couldn't talk to minfilia.

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Almost chokes on their soda from laughing so hard

Holy crap.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The forums were full of people making threads on how much they disliked minfilia during 2.0.

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You should know by now that this forum you and I included are just a vocal minority.

Minfilia's role became being used by Venat and giving birth to a new character in Ryne.

I like Ryne but also feel that Minfilia was done a disservice.

With teleportation magic there were clear consequences with Minfilia but it seems Yshtola is immune to these.

Falls back on the writing team. It's disappointing but here we are.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

You should know by now that this forum you and I included are just a vocal minority.

Minfilia's role became being used by Venat and giving birth to a new character in Ryne.

I like Ryne but also feel that Minfilia was done a disservice.

With teleportation magic there were clear consequences with Minfilia but it seems Yshtola is immune to these.

Falls back on the writing team. It's disappointing but here we are.

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Ahh, so you agree it's only a minority who dislike venat and graha, and think endwalker was bad.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Disagree. Especially given her prominence in 1.0 if one knows where to look.

They really got into a habit of killing off some of their characters in Realm Reborn. Minfilia and Moenbryda among these.

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Part of the problem with Minfillia is that anyone joining XIV post it's relaunch tends to not have as deep of a connection with her as she does spend most of ARR behind her desk. Only being shown to "do her job" I want to say twice as I want to say we walk in on a linkshell conversation with Krile and then during a conversation with us she gets an important linkshell ding. Then she isn't seen as a strong character because she never is shown fighting.

There's many who don't think her decision to go with the Garleans in order to stop any more killing as what a strong leader would do. Then that kidnapping and the one Nabrialis gets played up as her getting kidnapped all the time some how. That one being Midgardsormr's fault due to what he did to the WoL's Blessing of Light. I know a lot say they would want to be shown more of her skills as a diplomat ect but I'm also fairly certain that if we did see her do they'd probably complain about the pacing or how much longer the already fairly long ARR cutscenes and msq was. Even after they cut some of the chaff many still feel its still too long.

Now imagine if we got a scene where you walked into the waking sands around the time the Scions were deciding in where to move to where a representative from each city state and someone like Hancock from ETC was leaving her office arguing about the meeting and either glaring at the WoL or asking them to do something to change that woman's mind. All the while leading into one of the other existing CSes where we check base with her. You know a character many have called unbearable. Even if we ignore those who say such things about her character while just wanting to meme.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Ahh, so you agree it's only a minority who dislike venat and graha, and think endwalker was bad.

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Oh for sure. Character complaints towards Venat, Graha, Scions and Zenos is a minority problem just like it is with job balance among raiders. A lot of players in the 20 something million playerbase aren't going to care and instead play the game.

Is it a problem sure but the majority isn't invested enough to care and if it gets changed by 7.0 then the issue addresses itself.

Only longtime players since 1.0/2.0/3.0 are going to point out flaws.

The way PLD/WAR and WHM/SCH play today is very different from what they started out as. But to a new player just coming in they are just going to think how they play now is how they always played and as a result won't be too invested in them.

And that's for a lot of the OG 1.0/2.0 jobs.

Always disheartening to see the same people use their queerness for easily exploitable cover to deflect from some of their truly terrible takes.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The real problem was zodiark was a 3 so he couldn't talk to minfilia.

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I wish I could give you more than one upvote for this.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

I like how the game does not stereotype much of its cast by their gender in the way some RPG games do, like how in the twins its the boy who is the healer/more intellectual of the pair, whilst the girl is the more hot-headed frontline fighter.
more variety in character is always a boon, and we will likely be seeing more of that in 7.0, but thats the default for so many games and I think it would be a shame, and unnecessary, to try and make FFXIV fit such a mould when instead it could do its own thing.

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SO MUCH this.
I was surprised to see Alisaie take on a Combat role, while Alphinaud took on the Support Healer Role. These were good design choices as it also fit their personalities.
I LOVE RPGs...but lately I have been pretty bored of them because just about ALL of them follow the same Formula for Casting. Diversity Good, but I feel like its lacking when its the same tropes.
FFXIV has won me over partially because of its cast and how its not the same typical casting. Plus I love how everyone has developed.
Always looking foreword to more

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Originally Posted by Silvarer

I wish I could give you more than one upvote for this.

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I agree. Someone gonna need a Raise from that Tankbuster of a burn. Classic Uno Reverse card.

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Originally Posted by Aexnidaral

Always disheartening to see the same people use their queerness for easily exploitable cover to deflect from some of their truly terrible takes.

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Why, worried they'll intrude on your monopoly?

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Oh for sure. Character complaints towards Venat, Graha, Scions and Zenos is a minority problem just like it is with job balance among raiders. A lot of players in the 20 something million playerbase aren't going to care and instead play the game.

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Try 1.3m. The most it's ever peaked at is 1.7m.

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Originally Posted by Aexnidaral

Always disheartening to see the same people use their queerness for easily exploitable cover to deflect from some of their truly terrible takes.

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LGBT people are not here for the convenience of pushing and sharing your exact thoughts, feelings and opinions. Especially those of us who aren't even part of the same country and culture as you are.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Why, worried they'll intrude on your monopoly?

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You must have me confused for someone else! Understandable, I know -- there's lots of bunny boys around these days. Unfortunately in all of my 26 (or, 27th after this post) comments in my entire history on the forums I don't believe your snark makes any sense given that I've only self-referenced my queerness once! I apologize for any confusion. :)

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Originally Posted by Aexnidaral

You must have me confused for someone else! Understandable, I know -- there's lots of bunny boys around these days. Unfortunately in all of my 26 (or, 27th after this post) comments in my entire history on the forums I don't believe your snark makes any sense given that I've only self-referenced my queerness once! I apologize for any confusion. :)

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Then pray enlighten me, what's "terrible" about their "takes"? Your own posts thus far have been dripping with snark, so cut the act.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Then pray enlighten me, what's "terrible" about their "takes"? Your own posts thus far have been dripping with snark, so cut the act.

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While I appreciate your sharp eye for sighting snark, I don't think there's any good faith engagement that's going to be engaged in by either of us that's going to lead to constructive dialogue! :)

https://c.tenor.com/wmEPrw0ouQcAAAAC/joker-popcorn.gif

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Originally Posted by Aexnidaral

While I appreciate your sharp eye for sighting snark, I don't think there's any good faith engagement that's going to be engaged in by either of us that's going to lead to constructive dialogue! :)

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Then why bring it up in the first place if you're going to be vague and not elaborate further?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Try 1.3m. The most it's ever peaked at is 1.7m.

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Active players yes. Total players over time is 24 million. So essentially 1.3 million players are still playing the game but I wager that a large majority of that number aren't putzing around on the Official Forums.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Active players yes. Total players over time is 24 million. So essentially 1.3 million players are still playing the game but I wager that a large majority of that number aren't putzing around on the Official Forums.

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I don't disagree, though that goes for any of the sites the game's discussed on.

So...about Zero...you know...the main topic...?

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

So...about Zero...you know...the main topic...?

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Meh. Zero is meh.

Let's see where she goes, then maybe I'll give her a cookie.

A Void cookie.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

So...about Zero...you know...the main topic...?

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Do you have the aether(50 million gil) to get us back on topic? It'll cost you a lot.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

So...about Zero...you know...the main topic...?

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I was shocked when he turned out to be the leader/founder of the Patriots.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

I was shocked when he turned out to be the leader/founder of the Patriots.

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Dang and here I thought Zero was the cooler version of Mega Man. Or you know Jack Skellington's dog

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Dang and here I thought Zero was the cooler version of Mega Man.

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I thought zero was the ninja from borderlands.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I thought zero was the ninja from borderlands.

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Nah, I'm pretty sure she's a member of the Companions in Skyrim.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Do you have the aether(50 million gil) to get us back on topic? It'll cost you a lot.

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Idk if they do, but I do unless you mean 50mil in gil to everyone then no.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I thought zero was the ninja from borderlands.

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Oooo. I love that Alien robot or whatever they're supposed to be. Their Haikus are really great just as they're finishing landing a cool sword blow on an enemy. Way better then that Genji guy who's just a Storm Shadow ripp off who I hear always needs healing. He probably should stop standing in all the bad.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Ill jump the shark and say that there is probly more to Zero then we know.
We JUST met her, so any in depth analysis or What she COULD have been, will feel premature.

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Well, it read there: my thoughts exactly, about this thread and Zero in general.

You can't be serious right now.

It's been one patch and you're already drawing conclusions like she's been around for as long as a Scion. It took two expansions for some people to warm up to Zenos but you're already set on Zero?

That said, you're entitled to your opinion. Just don't act surprised if people call you too reactionary later.
Really bad take imho, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Sweetness

honestly id say to just report this thread as sexist/off topic from original discussion and move on. most of aveyond's posts are a stretch but i've never wanted one to be nuked so badly.

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Nothing that I have said is sexist, no matter how much you are eager to throw around the term. We didn't need another "wow she's so strong and cool" sort of party member, both FFXIV and modern media in general is oversaturated with this sort of thing and it's exhausting.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Nothing that I have said is sexist, no matter how much you are eager to throw around the term. We didn't need another "wow she's so strong and cool" sort of party member, both FFXIV and modern media in general is oversaturated with this sort of thing and it's exhausting.

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So you’re mad about this strong woman trope. I can guarantee you’d be on here complaining about if the new character was a damsel in distress trope. It’s all subjective and everything has been done before.
Not to mention we JUST got introduced to her.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Nothing that I have said is sexist, no matter how much you are eager to throw around the term. We didn't need another "wow she's so strong and cool" sort of party member, both FFXIV and modern media in general is oversaturated with this sort of thing and it's exhausting.

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I mean since Lyse and Ryne departed Alisaie has been the only frontline female member, so its cool that we have another one who hopefully will be added to the Trust list! One can never have enough badass strong women in my personal opinion either.