Is it necessary to advertise "LGBTQ+ friendly"

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Originally Posted by YukinaErde

calling lgbtphobia "different views" really just drives home the fact you are one of them. I urge you to try and be a better person.

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Your reply drives home the view that you’re as bigoted as they come. An eye for an eye will leave the world blind...thinking your view is righteous and those that oppose it are evil is about as bad as it get.

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Originally Posted by Serenitey

I am just going to say this. Why let anything someone else is advertising upset you THIS much? :/ Maybe learn to live and let live?

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I’m making a joke about snowflakes. It’s not bothering me if I’m laughing about it.

Ok cool, learn and let live. Why did you feel the need to tell me this then? Pretty much the same as why I commented on a public post

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Originally Posted by Jybril

https://media2.giphy.com/media/TD0NYrLpcnsTm/giphy.gif
This is our life now.

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The life of a snowflake

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

Your reply drives home the view that you’re as bigoted as they come. An eye for an eye will leave the world blind...thinking your view is righteous and those that oppose it are evil is about as bad as it get.

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The fact you think you have any morality to stand on here is hysterical. Go away lgbtphobe.

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Originally Posted by Mat13295

In a perfect world yes it would be redundant.

But this is not a perfect world.

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Quoting for truth.

I'm one of them LGBTs. In my extensive history of being Online I have come to avoid "LGBT" advertised groups like the plague. In 14 specifically, Gayorzea still clings to the back of my mind. Wretched place.

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Originally Posted by YukinaErde

The fact you think you have any morality to stand on here is hysterical. Go away lgbtphobe.

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Although he's coming off blunt and ham fisted, as well as irreverent, I don't think it's fair to call him an Ist/phobe. After going back and looking at their statements, he has not actively condemned LGBTQ people, but rather, a type of notable oversensitivity that seems to surround the group.

And there IS an oversensitivity in that group. That's one of the smaller reasons I don't associate with the LGBTQIAA+ movement, despite being someone that fits into that alphabet.

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Originally Posted by Vav2021

Although he's coming off blunt and ham fisted, as well as irreverent, I don't think it's fair to call him an Ist/phobe. After going back and looking at their statements, he has not actively condemned LGBTQ people, but rather, a type of notable oversensitivity that seems to surround the group.

And there IS an oversensitivity in that group. That's one of the smaller reasons I don't associate with the LGBTQIAA+ movement, despite being someone that fits into that alphabet.

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making jokes out of misgendering trans people and calling them snowflakes for not wanting to be harassed is literally LGBTphobic.

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Originally Posted by YukinaErde

The fact you think you have any morality to stand on here is hysterical. Go away lgbtphobe.

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Lol where’s the proof that I’m a lgbtphoob? I have not said one negative thing about the lgbt community.on the other hand, you admitted that you’re an intolerant person. You are a bigot.

Every time I see someone advertising LGBTQ+ friendly I get the same knee jerk reaction I do everytime I see the all totally women discord/FC/exclusive event or the come hang out with my ooo wooo cat girl on stream adverts. Some might be completely fine, and friendly legitimately. I would honestly love the idea of a recreation of gay day at six flags great adventure when I was in high school. It was so amazing finding a bunch of people who were just super cheerful to be around, and open about their sexuality. They even had super cool rainbow themed glowy rave cups you could buy for cheap. It was the best time I think I ever had at any event. Given I do not go to many events recently, so who knows how everything is now. This was over ten years ago so I would imagine things might have changed.

I digress, bringing this up, I know for a fact that these FC 9 time out of 10 are most likely similar to every other FC without the label. I like that it is there if someone may wish to be open about their sexuality and preferences, but many are not usually....I guess the best word is chill/laid back vibe. It is great for people who wish for a place with like minded individuals, but now a days groups will be a bit terrifying. Anything you do could be offensive even if you yourself as a specific sexual preference do not find these things offensive. It is like stepping on egg shells. I am thinking I just do not have the social graces to interact and remember every single small thing that could send someone into a spiral. I wish to just relax with people I am comfortable around, and say a dry humored joke about the salty sea man being one of my favorite pubs and not be considered intolerant to plights of every individual within an FC. "What if Johnny is very upset about the thought of a sea captain, he has a trigger warning specifically for sea fairing vessels after all and you mention sea men and they remind him of a captain and the sea and ships. Oh god and fish! This has made Johnny very upset and you should be ashamed for bringing about this traumatic event back into his mind. You monster!" After seeing things like this, I would much rather be alone with a small group of close friends who understand my dumb jokes and not misconstrue them as some random low handed insult that had nothing to do with what I was even talking about.

Edit: Yes some of this thread is really reminding me why I stay far away from most FC's in general.

I mean, there's no real reason to overthink it.
I think most people are not even trying to make a point with it, they see everyone doing it and decide to go along.
You could maybe argue about "virtue signaling", but at the same time no one is really getting anything out of it.

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Originally Posted by Sky_Sumisu

I mean, there's no real reason to overthink it.
I think most people are not even trying to make a point with it, they see everyone doing it and decide to go along.
You could maybe argue about "virtue signaling", but at the same time no one is really getting anything out of it.

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Honestly theres no virtue signalling whatsoever. For example my FC advertises we are LGBT since a large portion of our members are LGBT, and we want to make sure all potential new members know that. This keeps people who are uncomfortable with LGBT people out of our FC, and allows LGBT players to join knowing they will be welcomed into a positive environment.

How people choose to advertise their guilds has no effect on me, personally. Having said that---and this is just an observation on my part from seeing thousands of guilds across different games going back to the EQ days---guilds that go out of their way to use this as a selling point more often than not have the most drama. I've even seen members of that community avoid those guilds for that very reason.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

How people choose to advertise their guilds has no effect on me, personally. Having said that---and this is just an observation on my part from seeing thousands of guilds across different games going back to the EQ days---guilds that go out of their way to use this as a selling point more often than not have the most drama. I've even seen members of that community avoid those guilds for that very reason.

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I'd go so far as to say, doubling down on your point, that I have seen more anti-LGBT behavior in communities advertised as such. As people have said, sometimes these groups are completely genuine, but more often than not it's just bad. Something about "haha it's all a joke!" Those that make you tag your alphabet letter are the worst, as you can see clear caste systems form. This is more so for groups that are specifically LGBT, but I've seen it enough to be extremely wary.

I don't really see any reason not to use the tag if you feel it's appropriate for your guild. It's funny to me that some of the posters here approach it as if LGBTQ+ people are some sort of weird hive mind that all think and act the same. But they're just, well, people. Is there drama in LGBTQ+ flagged guilds? Sure, but there's potential for drama in every guild (goodness knows as someone who has run guilds in other games, I've seen it). Do some LGBTQ+ people like the out and proud and loud form of representation? Sure, and some don't. Do some LGBTQ+ people like the in your face, vulgar humour about their gender/orientation? Sure, and some don't. Do some LGBTQ+ people like to talk about their orientation and/or gender? Sure, but some don't.

All the LGBTQ+ tag does is tell someone that when they're enjoying their hobby, they aren't going to have to deal with as much of the same crap as they may experience in the real world because their gender and orientation won't be an issue. It's not some silver bullet that will automatically remove any and all interpersonal difficulties, and if someone believes that it will it has nothing to do with the tag the guild has chosen to go by.

Personally, my guild doesn't advertise as LGBTQ+ friendly but I wouldn't have any issues at all joining one that did if I was ever on the lookout for a new one.

In short, no. It's not necessary to advertise a certain LGBT+ community.

But on the other hand, there are some that may prefer to join a group / community that they know (or at least, are lead to believe) that they are tolerant and accepting of people being who they want to be.

There are certainly more malicious groups out there and sadly, there are plenty of LGBT+ communities that make it really hard to accept them at times. I cannot list off the number of times I have been called a this-phobe, or a that-ist because I did something they personally despised.

And those things I did? Those were simply pull at my own pace, instead of wall-to-wall. Or keeping to myself, instead of worshiping the people that "come out" on XIV as if it's some big achievement that only they can get.

If you want to be that way, you shoot for the stars. You dont need a strangers approval to feel validated. Just be you.

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Originally Posted by YukinaErde

making jokes out of misgendering trans people and calling them snowflakes for not wanting to be harassed is literally LGBTphobic.

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Take a shot every time someone says "Phobic" or "Bigot".

You're talking about how him making jokes about misgendering is bad, him calling folks snowflakes is inaccurate and insensitive... yet here we are. Your reactions are inadvertently proving him right. By reacting as dramatically as you are to his statements rather than saying "Eh, he's a jerk, i'll ignore him" you are showing that misgendering someone or calling someone a snowflake has EXTREME power over them.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Gayorzea

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https://c.tenor.com/qh3kD_Kc6L4AAAAC/doomer.gif

About as necessary as people seem to think qualifying FFXIV as a friendly community is... in other words it doesn't matter. Every game will have friendly people and bad ones. Every single one of them that involves you interacting with random strangers is going to be that way. It's a matter of luck whether or not you come across either, though you'll have a smaller chance of encountering the bad ones simply due to the way the game is moderated.

Bottom line is that if anyone has any issue with someone saying something as benign as it being LGBTQ+ friendly, they're not the brightest of sorts you or anyone should be interacting with. People should just have realistic expectations in with the reality that every community has terrible, neutral, and overly friendly people, as stated above. There is no hive mind utopia of friendliness lol.

It isnt redundant because people dont follow "all" the tos rules when it comes to respect. Ive been in fc's where they still thought homophobic jokes were funny, used awful stereotypes to actively mock and when challenged was like "chill its just a joke" and made it my issue.

With my fc i do say it is LGBTQ+ friendly because that is what it is. But beyond that it has zero impact on what we do or do not do besides allowing people to just be themselves. I think that is the point. At some point, in the very distant future we wont need to have these kind of labels. But then i hope we wont also need to "come out" or be assumed to be "straight" until that day, well keep the notice on the door, so that maybe just occasionally we wont need to do the "am i safe to be myself" check

just as a point of reference, while they moderate in game, if i'm joining an FC, i want to know they aren't going to harass me based on those things outside of the game in the inevitable discord i'd be joining, so yeah, not redundant tbh

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

It isnt redundant because people dont follow "all" the tos rules when it comes to respect. Ive been in fc's where they still thought homophobic jokes were funny, used awful stereotypes to actively mock and when challenged was like "chill its just a joke" and made it my issue.

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People don't follow all the ToS when it comes to Mods and third party tools. They surely won't for other aspects of the ToS as well.

I don't rly see the issue with it, what it essentially communicates to me is that the FC/ group will be more actively talking about that stuff.
That said, I think the types of people who want to talk about their identity 24/7 tend to first and foremost not even be part of that identity but secondly also be on a more fringe extreme.
Most trans people don't want to actually talk about being trans all the time, they just want to be accepted and exist as a normal person and not be defined by that.
Having people constantly bring it up is usually not something they want.

I think it's the same with '' womens only '' groups or FC's, I can kinda understand it to some extent but I also think it tends to attract a very particular type of person.
It'd be the same with politics if you had a FC marketed as '' conservative friendly '', I'd probably expect the FC to attract a fringe extreme rather than the average conservative.

Just wanted to say that "LGBTQ+ friendly" does not mean its excluding straight people, thats why its not against ToS OP linked. Hope this helps :)

All it adds is the fact that theres higher chance of being accepted being part of LGBTQ+ and not receiving heated gamer moments if its brought up. In perfect world this wouldnt be needed. But we are on the internet

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Originally Posted by InkB

Just wanted to say that "LGBTQ+ friendly" does not mean its excluding straight people, thats why its not against ToS OP linked. Hope this helps :)

All it adds is the fact that theres higher chance of being accepted being part of LGBTQ+ and not receiving heated gamer moments if its brought up. In perfect world this wouldnt be needed. But we are on the internet

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I'd say it may not be excluding straight people but thats how it can come off. Some folks just want a nice n solid group. Seeing advertisements like that tells me there's special treatment going on and let's me know thats a bigger focus.

Best groups I've been a part of are groups that just opt to treat everyone fair. No singling out or special focus. I don't don't see "black friendly" or any other advertisement like that (nor would I want to btw) as it's not needed. I prefer to treat people like people so that may be why I see it as unnecessary.

this thread, in summary:
https://files.catbox.moe/ahphfs.jpg

I'll be honest. When I see LBGTQ+ Friendly, I IMMEDIATELY run. I have not found a guild that is NOT LGBTQ+ friendly by default, but usually when a group is labeled as such just means they are just a different type of toxic. This obviously does not stand for all groups that label themselves as such, but just my own experience.

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Originally Posted by Denji

this thread, in summary:
https://files.catbox.moe/ahphfs.jpg

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If we are applying the comic's logic into this situation then wouldn't the situation be the fact that the pink ghosts made an MMO and now the grey ghosts are now playing said MMO asking why they are not grey?
*scratches chin curiously*

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

If we are applying the comic's logic into this situation then wouldn't the situation be the fact that the pink ghosts made an MMO and now the grey ghosts are now playing said MMO asking why they are not grey?
*scratches chin curiously*

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We even abandoned western games to them. Go be woke over there.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

We even abandoned western games to them. Go be woke over there.

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*Stares at the SE ethics department*
Y-You too.

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Originally Posted by Denji

this thread, in summary:
https://files.catbox.moe/ahphfs.jpg

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I mean not rly, neither of those would be allowed.
As far as I know at least you're not allowed to exclude people based on these things in the game.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I'd say it may not be excluding straight people but thats how it can come off. Some folks just want a nice n solid group. Seeing advertisements like that tells me there's special treatment going on and let's me know thats a bigger focus.

Best groups I've been a part of are groups that just opt to treat everyone fair. No singling out or special focus. I don't don't see "black friendly" or any other advertisement like that (nor would I want to btw) as it's not needed. I prefer to treat people like people so that may be why I see it as unnecessary.

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If they were to exclude straight people then they'd just say "LGBTQ+ only". My FC has a lot of straight people, and some are gay or trans.

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Originally Posted by Veranolth

If they were to exclude straight people then they'd just say "LGBTQ+ only". My FC has a lot of straight people, and some are gay or trans.

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I said that's how it comes off to me. I've been in plenty where folks get offended at any little thing. Can't make this joke or use this word because a few folks don't like it. Have to constantly monitor yourself and to me that's to much. I don't even know why your orientation should even matter in the game frankly. The person themselves is what's important, not who they prefer to sleep with but I digress.

A simple "Be respectful to everyone" is all you need. None of this extra label stuff. If it works for ya it works, but to folks like myself we steer clear.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

We even abandoned western games to them. Go be woke over there.

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we did what?

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Originally Posted by Knetik

I'll be honest. When I see LBGTQ+ Friendly, I IMMEDIATELY run. I have not found a guild that is NOT LGBTQ+ friendly by default, but usually when a group is labeled as such just means they are just a different type of toxic. This obviously does not stand for all groups that label themselves as such, but just my own experience.

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Same here, I made the big mistake of joining one a long time ago and one of the members started to hit on me...sorry but im 100% straight i won't tolerate those levels of disrespect.....but ohh I was the demon....the one that was in the wrong...I need to tolerate that! Like....boi ...gtfo, I would punch you if I could :/

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Originally Posted by keichirou

Same here, I made the big mistake of joining one a long time ago and one of the members started to hit on me...sorry but im 100% straight i won't tolerate those levels of disrespect.....but ohh I was the demon....the one that was in the wrong...I need to tolerate that! Like....boi ...gtfo, I would punch you if I could :/

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Did the person that hit on you back off when you let them know you're straight? Because if so I'm not sure how they were being disrespectful unless they hit on you in a really not ToS friendly way. But if not, obviously that's not okay for them to continue and that'd be really out of line for them. I'm a lesbian and have gotten hit on by straight men many times playing this game. As long as the guys are cool and back off/don't start being creepy about it when I let them know I'm not into men, it's never been a big deal. (sadly they don't always back off or get really weird and want really personal details about my love life when I let them know)

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I'd say it may not be excluding straight people but thats how it can come off. Some folks just want a nice n solid group. Seeing advertisements like that tells me there's special treatment going on and let's me know thats a bigger focus.

Best groups I've been a part of are groups that just opt to treat everyone fair. No singling out or special focus. I don't don't see "black friendly" or any other advertisement like that (nor would I want to btw) as it's not needed. I prefer to treat people like people so that may be why I see it as unnecessary.

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If you see "LGBTQ+ friendly" as "no straights", then you have some serious self thinking to do. Do you see "handicap accessible" as "only disabled" people as well? If the answer is no, ask yourself why you see "LGBTQ+ friendly" as wanting no straights, ask yourself why you THINK it's that way. Do you think it's because you yourself would exclude those people and expect them to do the same to you? Are you uncomfortable because you're scared of finding out you yourself are in fact not straight? Are you terrified of having your own world views challenged? Or do you just not want to have to come to terms with the fact that some minorities are still fighting to keep their own rights and lives safe, and that the world is in fact a hell of a lot more intolerant than you thought?

This thread continues again and again to prove that 'LGBTQ+ friendly' is a necessary indicator for this community. So those who want it can find it, and those who wish to avoid it can avoid it.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

If you see "LGBTQ+ friendly" as "no straights", then you have some serious self thinking to do. Do you see "handicap accessible" as "only disabled" people as well? If the answer is no, ask yourself why you see "LGBTQ+ friendly" as wanting no straights, ask yourself why you THINK it's that way. Do you think it's because you yourself would exclude those people and expect them to do the same to you? Are you uncomfortable because you're scared of finding out you yourself are in fact not straight? Are you terrified of having your own world views challenged? Or do you just not want to have to come to terms with the fact that some minorities are still fighting to keep their own rights and lives safe, and that the world is in fact a hell of a lot more intolerant than you thought?

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Your attitude is the one I expect from people who feel the need to design themselves as ''LGBTQ+ friendly'' and it is the reason why some people want to avoid those kinds of groups.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Your attitude is the one I expect from people who feel the need to design themselves as ''LGBTQ+ friendly'' and it is the reason why some people want to avoid those kinds of groups.

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Talk to me when you've been bullied, harassed, ostracized by family, treated like crap, and actively beaten up irl for being something other than straight. This stuff still happens to this day to people, so having the indicator that the space is friendly for the LGBTQ+ people is important. Acceptance is the main thing people want here, and there's a hell of a lot of people who won't accept LGBTQ+ people in this day and age.