On Extreme Role-playing Within XIV

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Originally Posted by Lunalepsy

Why does RPing bring so much drama?

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Better question is why does Lalafell hate go unabated, we have feelings too we are not just not meant to be tossed in a stew.

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Originally Posted by Lunalepsy

Why does RPing bring so much drama?

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Because role playing is basically performing a drama itself.

And that people put too much of themselves into it, to a point where it becomes very common to create their own bubbles in order to regulate theirs and those with similar mindset's fun. So when discussions about it are created, all these bubbles bursts as soon as they join in.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

That is as dull as dishwasher if it makes up the majority of the rp scene. It does not make use of lore, it does not make use of the world, and it is a narrative devoid of soul. In my opinion it's not but cringey discount second life.

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Lay it on me: show me an RP character that isn't cringe

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Originally Posted by Lunalepsy

Why does RPing bring so much drama?

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Why are people so anti drama lol...

Drama is awesome and fun to watch. Its also extremely entertaining.

I sware if we took a liat of your last 12 things watched at least 3 would be dramas.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Fine, be transparent then. Do you find OOC comments made towards lalafell uncomfortable, like the memes and jokes that are made at the expense of them? It falls within the scope of the thread cause depending on where you stand it will either weaken or strengthen your position and will more or less put this tangent to rest. In the end if you are really concerned about keeping the tread on topic you would just answer the questions instead of beating around the bush as to where you stand on OOC comments made towards other characters.



I think it is safe to assume such a stance if they refuse to clarify and or use their stance this is about RP as a point mean to clarify especially after they have made comments like I am simplifying their stance, normally one would not say that unless their is a but in this case such actions are okay.

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You're the one going off topic here, to the point where I have to wonder if you're trolling. Maybe just, I don't know, stop? You don't hold some sort of moral high ground by badgering others. If you have an issue you want to discuss that isn't the main topic here (I mean, it's very obvious that you do and that it bothers you) then make your own thread. Then you can get the validation you seek or something. The direction it takes is entirely up to you.

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Originally Posted by FusiaRain

Why are people so anti drama lol...

Drama is awesome and fun to watch. Its also extremely entertaining.

I sware if we took a liat of your last 12 things watched at least 3 would be dramas.

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Now do they have to be listed as dramas, or just be shows that have drama in them even if that was not why you watched them? Cause my last 12 shows are not listed as dramas but have drama going based off the definition of an exciting, emotional, or unexpected series of events or set of circumstance. Though you probably right, I bet if I look at my top 25 shows a few of them could be viewed as dramas.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

You're the one going off topic here, to the point where I have to wonder if you're trolling. Maybe just, I don't know, stop? You don't hold some sort of moral high ground by badgering others. If you have an issue you want to discuss that isn't the main topic here (I mean, it's very obvious that you do and that it bothers you) then make your own thread. Then you can get the validation you seek or something. The direction it takes is entirely up to you.

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Cause avoiding the question and telling me to make my own thread or post elsewhere is keeping the thread on topic, when you could just as easily answer the question that at the very least has this topic in mind unlike your comment just now and others. It is okay you guys have a double standard that is life and it is cool we are all humans riddled with double standards.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Now do they have to be listed as dramas, or just be shows that have drama in them even if that was not why you watched them? Cause my last 12 shows are not listed as dramas but have drama going based off the definition of an exciting, emotional, or unexpected series of events or set of circumstance.



Cause avoiding the question and telling me to make my own thread or post elsewhere is keeping the thread on topic, when you could just as easily answer the question that at the very least has this topic in mind unlike your comment just now and others. It is okay you guys have a double standard that is life and it is cool we are all humans riddled with double standards.

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So you have chosen to continue being obnoxious. Got it. Personally, I won't even give you an answer from my point of view just because it's the principle of the matter now. You don't deserve one. It'd actually be a positive one, too!

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Originally Posted by FusiaRain

Why are people so anti drama lol...

Drama is awesome and fun to watch. Its also extremely entertaining.

I sware if we took a liat of your last 12 things watched at least 3 would be dramas.

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You think so? It's probably my least favorite thing to watch, I couldn't/can't stand GTA RP and IRL streams on Twitch for that very reason.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

Lay it on me: show me an RP character that isn't cringe

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From experience, I cannot provide examples of from 14. In other mmos it's not too hard to find non-cringey rp. The two that come to mind are ESO and LoTRO (atleast when I played years ago.) SWTOR in its prime was also pretty decent. Then again two of those have pretty decent pvp system to assist with more confrontational rp.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

That is as dull as dishwasher if it makes up the majority of the rp scene. It does not make use of lore, it does not make use of the world, and it is a narrative devoid of soul. In my opinion it's not but cringey discount second life.

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Tbf again, people usually don't announce their story-driven RP events outside of FC or small groups of friends, because there's some individuals who think disrupting fun for others is cool or something, and such events usually are well planned for everyone in a party to have time to shine and randoms ain't gonna fit in very well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

So you have chosen to continue being obnoxious. Got it. Personally, I won't even give you an answer from my point of view just because it's the principle of the matter now. You don't deserve one. It'd actually be a positive one, too!

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Funny thing was I asked respectfully for clarification before all of this but you guys were the one that sidestepped it so let us not pretend to ourselves and frame me as the only obnoxious one here. Y’all got defensive from the get go, and dismissed me and my questions which I understand it is a sensitive topic that can easily spiral out of control.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

From experience, I cannot provide examples of from 14. In other mmos it's not too hard to find non-cringey rp. The two that come to mind are ESO and LoTRO (atleast when I played years ago.) SWTOR in its prime was also pretty decent. Then again two of those have pretty decent pvp system to assist with more confrontational rp.

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Oh yeah SWTOR guilds especially early on when Jung ma had a much higher server pop we had some interesting story lines regarding sex trafficking, xenophobia, slavery, drug trades etc . . . With Lords would not pause to degrade and or belittle non force users, or aliens though it did fit more within the universe.

Another good example would be Conan Exiles many of their RP storylines lean into the heavier side outside of what we mostly see here tavern RP.

I do wonder if people are against such topics / characters in RP because they are afraid they will be used as means to promote irl views masked as a safe and fun activity. Which does seem like a weird stance cause OOC comments made by many players could also be seen as hateful remarks geared towards certain characters due to race though normally they are okay, or has RP changed over the years where the character is considered a person because of the player behind the keyboard. Which is also weird cause a character is not the person so anything done to the character should not be taken personally.

SWTOR was my first mmo and also the first type I RP’ed and this was a general rule I was told to follow do not take RP actions personally. Though it seems to differ here or maybe RP has shifted idk.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

role-playing a character who might be racist, xenophobic or intolerant. A Garlean loyalist who believes in the cause, or a Xaela ultra nationalist. A moral compromised character. I've found these types of role-playing within XIV to be almost nonexistent and even treated as taboo.

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Good. Lets keep it that way.

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Originally Posted by Hatfright

Tbf again, people usually don't announce their story-driven RP events outside of FC or small groups of friends, because there's some individuals who think disrupting fun for others is cool or something, and such events usually are well planned for everyone in a party to have time to shine and randoms ain't gonna fit in very well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Then better to have no rp at all. That'd be better than what rp has morphed into in 14, which is to say wish fulfillment and thinly veiled cybering.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

From experience, I cannot provide examples of from 14. In other mmos it's not too hard to find non-cringey rp. The two that come to mind are ESO and LoTRO (atleast when I played years ago.) SWTOR in its prime was also pretty decent. Then again two of those have pretty decent pvp system to assist with more confrontational rp.

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Therein lies the crux of your current dilemma. Successful confrontational RP, incorporating themes of xenophobia for example, require an MMO with an "us vs. them" mentality between game players where the RP theme is a reflection of the game mechanics themselves: hatred of the "other", whether it be Horde vs. Alliance in WoW, the Three Alliances in ESO, or Jedi vs. Sith in SWTOR.

As you've mentioned, this game does not have that sort of "us vs. them" mentality, which is reflected in PvP, which is reflected in player attitudes toward confrontational RP.


Also, you really need to polish your argument. When asked to provide an example of a non-cringey RP character, you obfuscate by mentioning MMOs where you didn't think things cringey. Not the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Then better to have no rp at all. That'd be better than what rp has morphed into in 14, which is to say wish fulfillment and thinly veiled cybering.

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Why tho? People are having fun on their own terms, that's all. Who are we to say they can't, honestly?

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Then better to have no rp at all. That'd be better than what rp has morphed into in 14, which is to say wish fulfillment and thinly veiled cybering.

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You appear to have a complete lack of understanding of the RP communities (plural) within this game if you truly believe such a gross generalization. Sadly, you can never be satisfied, as you see only this vague caricature of the actual RP communities where you might actually flourish.

I'd suggest searching for one of the RP Discords dedicated to this game, but with your preconceived notions of the entirety of the RP community in general, I doubt you'll take the time to actually look.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Therein lies the crux of your current dilemma. Successful confrontational RP, incorporating themes of xenophobia for example, require an MMO with an "us vs. them" mentality between game players where the RP theme is a reflection of the game mechanics themselves: hatred of the "other", whether it be Horde vs. Alliance in WoW, the Three Alliances in ESO, or Jedi vs. Sith in SWTOR.

As you've mentioned, this game does not have that sort of "us vs. them" mentality, which is reflected in PvP, which is reflected in player attitudes toward confrontational RP.


Also, you really need to polish your argument. When asked to provide an example of a non-cringey RP character, you obfuscate by mentioning MMOs where you didn't think things cringey. Not the same thing.

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That is an interesting view, and I can see the point cause the cases of confrontational RP are in games and worlds where it does foster an us verse them storyline from the start. Though it does make me wonder is that also the reason people that create such characters are judged to be assholes just based around a character they have created. I can see why the game world would not foster such types of RP, but where does the divide come when people who engage in fringe type of RP are for the most part are ostracized by virtue of their character, not just the character itself but they themselves. As noted in the thread people who have x character are assholes / jerks.

I do get the line of reasoning why someone may not want to engage in such RP, but I do nto get the reasoning as to why someone should view another person as an simple by virtue of a character they created. I do not think people would feel it is reasonable for me to say I think all barkeeps are assholes because I disagree with that type of RP. Forgot to mention one more thing, the thing is FFXIV story does tackle more darker themes, so it is not something the community has been exposed too. Also as a community to mock certain races all the time with our memes. They are characters, and as many have mentioned yes RP can be used as means to wave away any aggression and can be used to willfully harm people I agree, but should bad actors detract and thus be the reason why everyone that engages in fringe style of RP as unreasonable monsters.

It is all fictional, none of it is real sure it can be used to harm but even then that requires the person to willfully take offense and view such attacks on a character as a personal attack which should never be the case in RP.

Well even if FF14 has no PvP which fully solidifies divides, it's still assumptive to say that every single person born in Eorzea is cooperative. PvP does not always have to reflect lore. In FFXIV lore there are Elezen discriminatory based on class and wealth (Ishgard wouldn't transform in one night would it?), there are territorial Xaela - somewhere in these forums there is an elaborate official thread about naming conventions which talks about all the Xaela tribes - and there's good old Garlemald. You can have a Garlean willing to be friends with Eorzeans - see Maximus, Cid and Lucia - and you can also have Eorzeans friendly towards the Garlean cause, right? Fordola for instance. Experience and life shaped their views.

If NPCs are allowed to have disagreeable views, why can't an RPer make such a character? Why is it suddenly different in RP? Sure, most of the "bad opinion" characters get painted as villains in the story (although I can't help think back to this one Hyur quest NPC at Hawthorne Hut labelling all Duskwight as poor thieves...) but they exist, right? Why not let someone who has opinions that don't align with yours just exist - heck, it's a fictional character...

I know nowadays saying "what happens in RP is only RP" is seen an excuse to hand-wave aggressive creepers or problematic people. I don't think it makes the statement any less true.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

You appear to have a complete lack of understanding of the RP communities (plural) within this game if you truly believe such a gross generalization. Sadly, you can never be satisfied, as you see only this vague caricature of the actual RP communities where you might actually flourish.

I'd suggest searching for one of the RP Discords dedicated to this game, but with your preconceived notions of the entirety of the RP community in general, I doubt you'll take the time to actually look.

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My notions of the rp community within 14 are founded on what I've seen of them over the 6 years I've played. Although I will say during the HW era it was far better than it is now.

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Originally Posted by FusiaRain

Why are people so anti drama lol...
Drama is awesome and fun to watch. Its also extremely entertaining.

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of course you'd say that, you're a fae (or was it pixie?) after all, they relish in those things!

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Greetings, and baiting title aside I would like to begin a discussion over fringe role-playing within the game. No, not the usual degenerate type often debated, but rather what is almost never discussed. That being topics such as role-playing a character who might be racist, xenophobic or intolerant. A Garlean loyalist who believes in the cause, or a Xaela ultra nationalist. A moral compromised character. I've found these types of role-playing within XIV to be almost nonexistent and even treated as taboo. More so than even actual unseemly roleplay of the other type. This is strange to me, as I come from other games that have a much more varied community when it comes to types of characters roleplayed. It makes XIV's scene seem stagnant and boring. Thoughts on why?

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What a lovely person you must be behind that avatar.

Crystal Generation.

I don't RP in FFXIV, but I remember roleplaying in SWG a bit, when I was young. Everyone knew never to take offense to anything that was RP. And if someone was RPing and they encountered a non-role player, the non-role player would often play along anyway. It didn't matter if the RPer was playing a shady or even xenophobic character. Yes, the xenophobic characters were generally Imperials but the role was still played. Ironically, the Imperials players were often far more mature OOC than many of the Rebel players. Perhaps, they had an easier time separating themselves from their characters and seemed to have played roles of people they would despise IRL.

I think the aversion to less savory characters is perhaps a part of a false narrative of 'so many racists in X country.' As for actual people of low moral caliber, when you let them open their mouths, they will do themselves in. Going after random people, just in case, is actually beneficial to people that are actually xenophobic, because now they have people they can try to hide behind. It's also highly immoral to make such assumptions, and it's not even a political issue. People of various political views agree it is bad form to make these lofty allegations without actual proof.

Never had any lewd tells or any forced sexual behavior in other games either, but that's acceptable to some here. That's not RP but generally an act of either desperation and/or harassment, but its somehow claimed to be under the RP umbrella by those that do it and those that approve of these actions.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

of course you'd say that, you're a fae (or was it pixie?) after all, they relish in those things!

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Oh good, I'm not the only person who picked up on it.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Oh good, I'm not the only person who picked up on it.

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No wonder they felt familiar! It was niggling at the back of my head and I couldn't figure out why.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

My notions of the rp community within 14 are founded on what I've seen of them over the 6 years I've played. Although I will say during the HW era it was far better than it is now.

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Just a question here -- is you main really on the Aether Data Center then? 'Cuz I've found that RP there is much less active than Crystal.

Siren isn't a world I'd normally consider for RP opportunities.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

It is all fictional, none of it is real sure it can be used to harm but even then that requires the person to willfully take offense and view such attacks on a character as a personal attack which should never be the case in RP.

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In an RP setting within an MMO, we become our Avatar. Unfortunately, certain behaviors can be perceived as attacks. Such attacks, without consent by all parties involved, may be taken personally. And rightly so.

The key in all events that involve more than one person is informed consent. If I know what someone else intends and agree to it, I cannot take offense. Such is the basis for any number of RP events.

When we are anticipating an evening of light conversation in Costa del Sol with friends, we do not expect to be rounded up and dragged off to Garlemald as slaves. Unless, of course, all involved have agreed that such behaviours are within the parameters of the RP event. When we are anticipating a fight event between warring tribes of Miqo'te, showing up dressed for a beach party could be outside the parameters of the RP event, and as disruptive as the first example.

Most RP events I've encountered are pretty light and angst-free. It's fun to meet up with friends and acquaintances in-game, to chat and to develop RP skills. Sharing your Avatar's story isn't easy without practice.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Just a question here -- is you main really on the Aether Data Center then? 'Cuz I've found that RP there is much less active than Crystal.

Siren isn't a world I'd normally consider for RP opportunities.

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Prior to cross world travel I was on Jenova, but Siren has quite alot of "rp". Although its the kind I strongly dislike.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

In an RP setting within an MMO, we become our Avatar. Unfortunately, certain behaviors can be perceived as attacks. Such attacks, without consent by all parties involved, may be taken personally. And rightly so.

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You aren't your character.

No one is suggesting your character is forced to play slave. I have not seen anything like that in this conversation.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

In an RP setting within an MMO, we become our Avatar. Unfortunately, certain behaviors can be perceived as attacks. Such attacks, without consent by all parties involved, may be taken personally. And rightly so.

The key in all events that involve more than one person is informed consent. If I know what someone else intends and agree to it, I cannot take offense. Such is the basis for any number of RP events.

When we are anticipating an evening of light conversation in Costa del Sol with friends, we do not expect to be rounded up and dragged off to Garlemald as slaves. Unless, of course, all involved have agreed that such behaviours are within the parameters of the RP event. When we are anticipating a fight event between warring tribes of Miqo'te, showing up dressed for a beach party could be outside the parameters of the RP event, and as disruptive as the first example.

Most RP events I've encountered are pretty light and angst-free. It's fun to meet up with friends and acquaintances in-game, to chat and to develop RP skills. Sharing your Avatar's story isn't easy without practice.

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Your example seems to be on the lines of god moding which is just poor rp. Also i have to disagree that we become our avatar when we RP but i could see if someone does become their avatar in RP why it may cause problems.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

You aren't your character.

No one is suggesting your character is forced to play slave. I have not seen anything like that in this conversation.

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It was an extreme example of why consent matters when one wishes to play darker roles in RP, which has been relevant to the conversation from the beginning.

When someone believes that darker conflict RP for which they are not prepared does not affect them personally because "we are not our Avatar", they've never been on the receiving end of such RP.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Your example seems to be on the lines of god moding which is just poor rp. Also i have to disagree that we become our avatar when we RP but i could see if someone does become their avatar in RP why it may cause problems.

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Which example? There are two.

The first is an extreme example, to be sure, but not poor RP when done properly (ie. with extensive planning beforehand and consent from all parties). I expect it is way out of the comfort zone for most players. Or, perhaps not, given the anecdotes about RP on other MMORPGs in this thread. It would definitely not be good as a one-shot event.

The second is on the other end of the spectrum; annoying and disruptive, but relatively harmless.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Which example? There are two.

The first is an extreme example, to be sure, but not poor RP when done properly (ie. with extensive planning beforehand and consent from all parties). I expect it is way out of the comfort zone for most players. Or, perhaps not, given the anecdotes about RP on other MMORPGs in this thread. It would definitely not be good as a one-shot event.

The second is on the other end of the spectrum; annoying and disruptive, but relatively harmless.

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I mean you only presented one aspect that could be seen as god moding if done poorly which would be your first one. As you mentioned is an extreme example, one can still engage with strangers and be an edgy character without infringing on their overall character. If done right of course, if done poorly like any RP encounter it is will be overall unpleasant. I just do not see why such topics are taboo if they are done properly. It is like everyone will assume it will be done poorly and everyone will try to enact their will on your character.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

It was an extreme example of why consent matters when one wishes to play darker roles in RP, which has been relevant to the conversation from the beginning.

When someone believes that darker conflict RP for which they are not prepared does not affect them personally because "we are not our Avatar", they've never been on the receiving end of such RP.

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It's an extreme example, because it doesn't happen. No one can force you to play slave.

I've seen all sorts of people RP. It's not hard to go with the flow. Only harassment is an issue. Actual RP is not the same as that.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

It's an extreme example, because it doesn't happen. No one can force you to play slave.

I've seen all sorts of people RP. It's not hard to go with the flow. Only harassment is an issue. Actual RP is not the same as that.

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It's not forcing someone to play slave, it's deliberately turning the course of the RP event into something darker because "you want to".

Protip: "I just really want to RP a racist" is, in fact, a red flag.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

It's not forcing someone to play slave, it's deliberately turning the course of the RP event into something darker because "you want to".

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You can make that claim about anyone, even someone that is 'nice.' Anyone can push things in the direction people don't want. Darker themes have nothing to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Protip: "I just really want to RP a racist" is, in fact, a red flag.

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It's funny how the people that demonstrated how RP usually is and had previous experience say otherwise. It was explained how that was not the case. This is coming from a minority, in case it makes a difference to you. Given your response, it would make a difference, even though it should not.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

No one can force you to play slave.

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No one can force you, but they can sure try.
I have literally left an RP because someone tried to force me to play a slave.

As an aside, I'd like to note that I've played multiple MMO's on various European servers including FFXIV, ESO and WoW and have rarely run into issues when it comes to role-play on European servers. I think it would be worth it if some people took a step back and considered that there's cultural differences at play - and that it's pretty sinister to be implying that European role-players are secretly big racists just because they seem to be more willing and able to separate a character with flaws from the role-player that is controlling them.

To tie in with that, I'd also note that a significantly larger amount of role-play on American servers seems to consist of 'fluff' and visiting taverns/night clubs. It isn't my intention to suggest that European role-players are necessarily better or more mature, but equally I'd note that there is less focus over on our side of the pond on things such as brothels, self inserts and wish fulfilment. A lot of us just like an interesting story with deep characters that fit the setting we choose to role-play in. It isn't necessarily more complicated than that.

Nobody is forced to interact with another role-player. They can and should politely decline interact if they feel they're not going to be a good fit - but that doesn't mean that people are necessarily doing something wrong simply by choosing to portray a character with flaws or antagonistic traits.