FIX GARUDA!!!

Or you can go back to stack ARC BLM and WAR instead of only stack BLM and get to close to 100% win rate... you know, the normal way.

I want to make a BLM burn vid for shits and giggles, but none in LS want do it >.<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kumaeru

Tanking fights like that has a lot to do with the rotation of skills and having enough accuracy for skull sunder in combo (being one of the larger boosts to enmity). Add on the large enmity boosts of Heavy Darklight and WS rotations for increased enmity based on damage. Yes gear does help, but in the end it really relies on the skill of the tank and his/her experience with the job. I believe Miko from Dancing Mad was able to do the same thing using the normal Darklight DPS body. Though with that the enmity gain would be more based on damage dealt being that that would be higher.

The nice thing about BLM is that they have 2 abilities that reduce enmity immediately, and Quelling strike that reduces the amount of enmity a blm would gain from the next spell. Blms who have known how much they're hate increases per spell based on playing with that same tank over and over will also learn a rotation of spells and abilities that will garuntee that they don't pull hate. When both parties BLM and Tank get into this routine then there shouldnt be much of a reason to pull hate ever. Don't forget the Collusion pull with maddening potion and maybe antagonize(?) stacked.

It's not like Darth and I met last week and decided to do garuda >.>


I do the same doing MNK burn on Miser. I've timed my combos so that I'll always have my Howling Fist up a couple seconds before his Collusion is ready. Keeps me in the yellow for most of that fight until the Str potion goes off and I climb back up to red.

---

sorry im not sure how this relates to what i said?

i dont care what gear you wear or what abilitys you use.

im saying that there should be a system in place to stop DD going all out, emnity reduction abilitys like freeze, chameleon allow this to happen so maybe those abilitys should be changed.. and lets face it BLM is really the only job that has to worry about emnity which should tell you something about the state the other jobs are in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rogue

im saying that there should be a system in place to stop DD going all out, emnity reduction abilitys like freeze, chameleon allow this to happen so maybe those abilitys should be changed.. and lets face it BLM is really the only job that has to worry about emnity which should tell you something about the state the other jobs are in.

---

I really do not need the game to control my output of damage or my enmity build. There is a very simple way to stop DD going all out if that is what you want or require. You simply do not do it. Or ask your party not to if you are tank.

This game already has so many spoonfed things...our combos light up, blink and have directional arrows for pete's sake. If they control the randomness of the party dynamic and the battles, then why even fight...will be a consistent (read "repetitive") result and experience. Mining ore would be more randomly dynamic and eventful than a primal fight.

And BLM is not the only one who has to worry about enmity.

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...7038001a51.jpg

Get my spear anyways on first win. oo;

Well you guys got your wish. Looks like the devs went back to the drawing board and redid the Garuda battle from the ground up. But I don't think they did a very good job at avoiding class stacking with the new update. I just so happened to sneak into Yoshida's personal Gundam in order to steal this footage of the new epic battle against Garuda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FIRh5t6VE

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rogue

sorry im not sure how this relates to what i said?

i dont care what gear you wear or what abilitys you use.

I don't even have to use freeze for this fight-
im saying that there should be a system in place to stop DD going all out, emnity reduction abilitys like freeze, chameleon allow this to happen so maybe those abilitys should be changed.. and lets face it BLM is really the only job that has to worry about emnity which should tell you something about the state the other jobs are in.

---

You see blackmage do have to worrie about hate---- Our tank just has great darklight gear- so why don't you go get yourself some gear that has enemity down and enemity Up. problem solved

There has always seemed to be a group of people on the forums who want everything to be easier for them. When any class could put up Emulate and tank any worldspawn NM and hardly take any damage people defended it. There were ARCs tanking Great Buffalo and people said, "This is fine, they made it so any class can tank!" When you could focus down a couple moogles before wiping and then raise your party and rest and rebuff before finishing the rest, people defended it: "This is working as intended. If they didn't want you to be able to do this they wouldn't have made it this way!"

There are people who refuse to step up to the plate and take something on at the difficulty level intended. Finding bugs is fine, but when you post begging for the bugs not to be fixed so it can be easier for you that's pretty sad. Complain all you want about how "BLM burn is hard, too!" but if it was truly equally challenging you wouldn't have switched to it and linkshells incapable of beating the fight normally wouldn't be winning using it.

It hasn't even been a week and people are crying that Garuda is too hard for them and clinging to a bug to make it easier for them. Garuda's not going anywhere. You don't have to master it in a week. All you're doing by continuing to use the bug is putting off learning the fight until after it's fixed. You'll log in after a hotfix and have no idea what you're doing and you'll be back on here clamoring for SE to make it easier for you again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Okipuit

As you quoted Yoshi saying:

"This is an oversight on the developer’s part, so please do not worry about this. However, as this is not recommended, we appreciate your understanding and cooperation."

---

I should point out that this is precisely the definition of an EXPLOIT, one that's been used many times in the past by SE in the context of FFXI, hardly surprising someone's worried about being sanctioned.

Yoshi's dismissal of this as not a concern is misplaced, based on the history of bannings in FFXI over exactly this sort of "developer oversight".

Ok can someone Please explain to me the Elemental Circle Cuz last night our mnk was hitting harder with Fists of fire!!
Cuz last time i checked "Wind extinguish Fire"

and its called "Taming the Tempest (Hard)" for a reason i can see SE now thinking about Nerfing BLM really Nerfing him down lol

Nerfing blm is not the solution (even if they up Garuda magic def)
People might try something different. all Mnks maybe (thorn rotation when hp is low?)
Well, its the mechanics of the fight itself where he/she does before astral blast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raikki

There has always seemed to be a group of people on the forums who want everything to be easier for them. When any class could put up Emulate and tank any worldspawn NM and hardly take any damage people defended it. There were ARCs tanking Great Buffalo and people said, "This is fine, they made it so any class can tank!" When you could focus down a couple moogles before wiping and then raise your party and rest and rebuff before finishing the rest, people defended it: "This is working as intended. If they didn't want you to be able to do this they wouldn't have made it this way!"

There are people who refuse to step up to the plate and take something on at the difficulty level intended. Finding bugs is fine, but when you post begging for the bugs not to be fixed so it can be easier for you that's pretty sad. Complain all you want about how "BLM burn is hard, too!" but if it was truly equally challenging you wouldn't have switched to it and linkshells incapable of beating the fight normally wouldn't be winning using it.

It hasn't even been a week and people are crying that Garuda is too hard for them and clinging to a bug to make it easier for them. Garuda's not going anywhere. You don't have to master it in a week. All you're doing by continuing to use the bug is putting off learning the fight until after it's fixed. You'll log in after a hotfix and have no idea what you're doing and you'll be back on here clamoring for SE to make it easier for you again.

---

Ahh, but this is a beautiful time! After moogle fix it was glorious to be coming out winning and see people who previously won routinely coming out dead time and time again even though they claimed to never use the wipe/raise strategy. Beat it how you like, but don't whine when you can't beat it anymore after they patch it.

Interesting strategy though, I'd like to have been in your shell when you first tested it, was there an element of "this is really working?" at all? Kinda crazy that the devs didn't foresee this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aikawananase

why is every biotching when there's a valid normal strategy? /yumad

---

Because most people play with picky pick up groups who suck anyways. So they blame it on the setups rather than the players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ruisu

Because most people play with picky pick up groups who suck anyways. So they blame it on the setups rather than the players.

---

Its not just pickups that do this, most of my Garuda runs have been we NEED 3 BLMs, we NEED 2 BRDs we NEED 2 WARs, the communities that actually experement after the first win are very small, I haven't been with what I see as my main LS yet, but another one says x, y, z jobs only.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raikki

There has always seemed to be a group of people on the forums who want everything to be easier for them. When any class could put up Emulate and tank any worldspawn NM and hardly take any damage people defended it. There were ARCs tanking Great Buffalo and people said, "This is fine, they made it so any class can tank!" When you could focus down a couple moogles before wiping and then raise your party and rest and rebuff before finishing the rest, people defended it: "This is working as intended. If they didn't want you to be able to do this they wouldn't have made it this way!"

There are people who refuse to step up to the plate and take something on at the difficulty level intended. Finding bugs is fine, but when you post begging for the bugs not to be fixed so it can be easier for you that's pretty sad. Complain all you want about how "BLM burn is hard, too!" but if it was truly equally challenging you wouldn't have switched to it and linkshells incapable of beating the fight normally wouldn't be winning using it.

It hasn't even been a week and people are crying that Garuda is too hard for them and clinging to a bug to make it easier for them. Garuda's not going anywhere. You don't have to master it in a week. All you're doing by continuing to use the bug is putting off learning the fight until after it's fixed. You'll log in after a hotfix and have no idea what you're doing and you'll be back on here clamoring for SE to make it easier for you again.

---

perfectly stated.

We just do the damages.

so agree with what rakki mention. the battle been very nicely design, the many phases and danger that comes with it. People that did it the normal way stepp up to the challenge and acomplish that knowing they have spend hours of hardwork and learn alot from the battle. having to just tank and spam damage kill it before it even hit its aerial blast and skip all phases just ruin the battle design it was intended to. if thats the case, they could just make a boss that is tank and spam and a time limit and everyone just stack dps and beat it. will it even be fun? to me personally not. i enjoyed the battle thru the phases and such it has to offer. and it makes it real fun when elarn all of it and manage do it. =p.

LOL Yoshi P's comment set off a feeding frenzy, there are at least 30 BLM looking for group at node now trying to get drop before the inevitable nef.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ragz

LOL Yoshi P's comment set off a feeding frenzy, there are at least 30 BLM looking for group at node now trying to get drop before the inevitable nef.

---

Dude haha.

Double melded accuracy wands on my server are like 10-13MILL............... That's just retarded. Glad I sold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geo

Dude haha.

Double melded accuracy wands on my server are like 10-13MILL............... That's just retarded. Glad I sold.

---

Too bad I blew up my double INT brand once I got my van... coulda sold it for 10mil...

Monks pretty good. Or at least some of our Monks ;v Pretty high DPS, we don't let more then 1 go in though lawls @ Aura Pulse.

Hardly call it end game...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neurosis

But if I'm understanding the fix correctly even having one war. And having them aoe one side of the plumes and having any other class aoe others. If the weapon skills are not going through the pillars this is going to cause a few issues.

Bring out the elitist people who will complain that if you do not have triple melded gear you are fail. Blah blah blah blah
I'm beyond tired of hearing this. But I am more than willing to bet that's exactly what is going to happen.

---

This depends on how the fight will be tuned at the end of the day. Though your concerns are part of the reason I am weary of the materia system. I saw this coming when I knew you could stack materia with the chance of failure on to the same item, which as I noted long ago, copies the enchant system from Lineage II. I was just thinking of the economic aspect and not thinking of how it would affect gameplay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

BLM will always outshine melee on that perspective, which is fine, you have to manage hate and MP to be efficient. However, to the extent that they completely outshine melee in the damage perspective is unsettling. Like someone said, you can't just gimp BLM, because it would be ToAU all over again. What you need to do is make melee better, simply put. Maybe not be so position heavy in melee combos, but rather do "More damage if attacked from the side.", this would keep the positioning system and make combos not such a hassle for melee.

---

I agree that melee has some built-in disadvantage. It is becoming quite apparent.

That being said, I disagree with the comment on BLM. TAU created magic resistant mobs, which really is no different than nerfing BLM's damage output. What killed the job wasn't that part of the change, but the fact that it was the only change to the job, so instead of balance what they got is a heavily nerfed BLM and left it to its fate. Like cutting off a bird's wings and leaving it in the middle of the forest.

You can adjust BLM's damage potential, or reduce its burst in some way, but you'd also need other changes so that the job still has controlled burst damage when called for, but not to the point its range advantage and DPS makes melee classes obsolete or highly undesired. If BLM is currently 95% burst and 5% DoT (these are made up numbers, by the way), the scales need to shift so that BLM is 60% burst and 40% DoT.

That aside, I agree that overly melee-unfriendly is not the way to go. I figured Matsui would have learned that from FFXI (if any of you wonder why I name him so much, he's the battle designer).

if plame, not get destoyby one any aoe ws. i thing it hardly to invite mnk or drg.. coz need war to steel~ or rain of dead to clear razor

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zezil

if plame, not get destoyby one any aoe ws. i thing it hardly to invite mnk or drg.. coz need war to steel~ or rain of dead to clear razor

---

http://i.imgur.com/7MrLc.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zezil

if plame, not get destoyby one any aoe ws. i thing it hardly to invite mnk or drg.. coz need war to steel~ or rain of dead to clear razor

---

gimme a minute i will decode this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zezil

if plame, not get destoyby one any aoe ws. i thing it hardly to invite mnk or drg.. coz need war to steel~ or rain of dead to clear razor

---

I read this 5 minutes ago but I'm still trying to translate it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by viion

gimme a minute i will decode this.

---

It's fairly obvious, what he is saying is if invite mnk or drg no steel only auo pulf and plame, no destoyby wall fell over so goradu blast~ too many strong.

Know what I mean?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zezil

if plame, not get destoyby one any aoe ws. i thing it hardly to invite mnk or drg.. coz need war to steel~ or rain of dead to clear razor

---

I don't care where you're from, but this is the English section, so please speak English when posting here (or even Engrish is acceptable), or don't post here at all. Otherwise, go to whatever section that suits your language and speak there. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Baxta

It's fairly obvious, what he is saying is if invite mnk or drg no steel only auo pulf and plame, no destoyby wall fell over so goradu blast~ too many strong.

Know what I mean?

---

i know what you mean, when i imagine gummy bears.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zezil

if plame, not get destoyby one any aoe ws. i thing it hardly to invite mnk or drg.. coz need war to steel~ or rain of dead to clear razor

---

You guys are mean. He is saying warriors are AOE monsters (AOE being necessary, or at the very least, extremely efficient against Razor Plumes) because of Steel Cyclone, which in turn causes most players to overlook the usefulness of Monk or Dragoon, although no one doubts their ability to deal damage.
Zezil, I think you articulated your point very well.
What should be considered, however, is monk has Aura Pulse (which, I know, is a weak argument for monks area of effect prowess) and Dragoons actually have several AOE options (Leg Sweep, Ring of Talons and even an AOE 15 minute ability)

As far as the BLM burn... honestly, every class has that DPS potential.
While tanking during a BLM burn I did 13k and the BLMs were at 20k
Imagine not tanking and getting to realize the full potential of combos

Honestly, there is a place for all classes on Garuda if players would open their minds...

That was enlightening... Well said Zezil

Is this a troll thread?

Guys, your level of maturity (or lack thereof) shows. Good to see at least someone bothering to minimally exercise their brain to understand what Zezil posted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rydin

What should be considered, however, is monk has Aura Pulse (which, I know, is a weak argument for monks area of effect prowess) and Dragoons actually have several AOE options (Leg Sweep, Ring of Talons and even an AOE 15 minute ability)

---

Actually, MNK has access to Leg Sweep, too, so that makes 2 AOE abilities, that are quite spammable... vs DRG's 3, one of which is on a 15 min timer, so can be neglected in the long run. I'm not sure DRG has access to PGL's aura pulse? Never saw someone use it.

What makes MNK harder to play is their range, otherwise it's not inferior to other choices, certainly not in DPS

Quote:

---

Honestly, there is a place for all classes on Garuda if players would open their minds...

---

Exactly. Not to mention players tend to perform better if they are playing a class they like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rydin

What should be considered, however, is monk has Aura Pulse (which, I know, is a weak argument for monks area of effect prowess)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Actually, MNK has access to Leg Sweep, too, so that makes 2 AOE abilities, that are quite spammable... vs DRG's 3, one of which is on a 15 min timer, so can be neglected in the long run. I'm not sure DRG has access to PGL's aura pulse? Never saw someone use it.

What makes MNK harder to play is their range, otherwise it's not inferior to other choices, certainly not in DPS.

---

between melee, range is irrelevant in this fight.

aura pulse is almost useless as AOE because it has to turn off fists of fire before every pulse to make sure it actually damages the plumes, then turn them back on for garuda or risk losing quite a lot of dps. if your monk can handle that, great. monk does have access to leg sweep, but as i mentioned before- aura pulse doesn't count unless you're gaming your fists of fire. without fists of fire on, your damage on garuda sucks. with fists of fire on, you do no damage to plumes.

dragoon's dragonfire dive shouldn't be considered not because it has a 15min cd, but because it's magic based damage- also making it irrelevant on plumes. the time to use dragonfire is when garuda summons her clones, as it does good damage on garuda and chirada both.

dragoon does not have access to aura pulse, but leg sweep is on a 30sec cooldown and ring of talons is on a 60 second cooldown. keen flurry is also quite a lot more powerful for dragoon than for monk, because the instant reduction of recast gives you more flexibility with your aoe, and makes it much easier to make absolutely certain you have at least one (usually 2) aoe up for next plumes. (but if everyone is doing their job, you should be able to use KF on doomspike or chaos thrust to help burn garuda down faster)

monk can help out a bit with aoe on plumes, but that isn't what you're bringing it for if you're trying to get the most out of every job. you bring monk along to replace blm as single-target magic-based dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

monk is almost useless as AOE because it has to turn off fists of fire before every aura pulse to make sure it actually damages the plumes, then turn them back on for garuda or risk losing quite a lot of dps. if your monk can handle that, great.

---

Hmm, good point... Didn't think of that.

Quote:

---

but really if monk is replacing anyone in the fight, it would be a BLM for the single-target magic-based dps on both garuda and chirada.

---

Don't Garuda & co. move too much for MNK to rival BLM dps? If it's possible at all.

You can still do full combos as a warrior even if tanking. Garuda turns slow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Madruk

You can still do full combos as a warrior even if tanking. Garuda turns slow.

---

You can do full combos with any class, even solo, it's all about timing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Hmm, good point... Didn't think of that.

Don't Garuda & co. move too much for MNK to rival BLM dps? If it's possible at all.

---

yes and no. if you time your combos correctly to predict her teleports, it's not as big of a problem. you can also use shoulder tackle to close distance and decrease dps downtime. this still puts monk at a disadvantage compared to blm, but only before aerial blast. after that, blm has issues with mp and is easily interrupted by damage. this is where monk is more valuable in burning down clones and garuda

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soukyuu

You can do full combos with any class, even solo, it's all about timing.

---

These are advanced tactics... Can only be performed under massive amounts of drugs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

dragoon does not have access to aura pulse, but leg sweep is on a 30sec cooldown and ring of talons is on a 60 second cooldown. keen flurry is also quite a lot more powerful for dragoon than for monk, because the instant reduction of recast gives you more flexibility with your aoe, and makes it much easier to make absolutely certain you have at least one (usually 2) aoe up for next plumes. (but if everyone is doing their job, you should be able to use KF on doomspike or chaos thrust to help burn garuda down faster)

---

I thought I was gonna be the one to have to say it. Dragonfire dive sucks against plumes, it does like 100dmg. It also has a 15 min cooldown making it effectively useless for plumes. Ring of Talons does great damage, but unless you crit its still not one-shotting plumes (barring awesome melds, but then your acc probably sucks, making a crit harder cuz you can't combo for shit). All in all, counting on drg for plume maintenance is generally not a good idea. Saving combos for plumes also really hurts the dps too, because we are made to WS and WS at all times. We aren't like monk/arcs who have good AA dmg....we need to WS. Period. Combos galore in a single target dps pwn fest. Thats what DRG is made for. Let us save our keen flurries for maintaining combo rotation. Besides the chances of us getting a ring of talons off during plumes is pretty high when working through our normal rotation. Don't count on it though. Our job is single target. Also leg sweep does shit dmg so its pretty much useless against plumes except for finishing them off.

All in all DRG is epic for the fight due to its high single target dmg output. If a party recruits a DRG, thats what they should be recruiting it for. Monk is basically for the same reason. Now if a party wants aoe dmg, then you look at support dps classes. Bard and Warrior are the two support dps classes in the game right now. Both of those classes have truly great aoes that can be used on plumes with great efficacy. Also a random question, are razor plumes magic resistant or just elementally resistant? Because if you had a balanced party, it seems smarter to leave the single target melees on Garuda and let bard/warrior/blm aoe all the plumes to death. I assumed Dragonfire Dive did crap dmg because it seems fire-based, and razor plumes are wind-based. I could be wrong though.

Actually both Razor Plumes and I believe... Chirada are extremely magically resistant (It might be Suparna, but one of the clones)