Increasing number of players using 3rd party tools

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Absolutely disgusting. It's mods like this that will destroy the game.

I can see a time where you won't be allowed into any end game group unless you are using a UI addon that shows your ping. And don't get me started on a mod that inserts a comma into damage values. That is peak cheating and completely ruins everything the game is about.

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You are trolling, ROFL
Loved your style.

My husband uses acts because he enjoys testing himself and trying to get better and better. I don't, so I could careless.

If addons was allowed. The game would have to be balanced around them. In wow that is what happen. Boss design got balanced around addons.


Addons are fine, but if you complain about the game is too easy, and use them to help. Than your input on how hard the game is in invalid. (not saying acts does that.). As long as you don't harass people when you use them or talk about it in the game. You are free to use whatever you want. After all, my husband said it best. Rules only are rules if they are enforced. And they can't enforced it. They do heavily enforce harassment and talking about it is a no no.

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Originally Posted by Elissar

You are trolling, ROFL
Loved your style.

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Yep, I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous some of these people sound. Like the comment I've quoted below.
At what point is the community going to require you changing the colour of magic damage text to blue a pre-requisite to you entering a raid.
It's just fearmongering, and I think most of it comes from a place of envy at not being able to complete hard content and wanting to take down those who do.

Toxic casuals are and have been the biggest problem this game has. Far, far worse than any client-side addons that people like to use.

I like Yoshi P's statement on it. What is a third-party addon and where does it end? Is Excel an addon? A calculator? Discord? When he says they don't know what's on your computer and will never know, he is legitimising client side addons. That was him saying they were okay. The only thing I've seen them upset about is using mods to make lewd images of children in game (Ryne mostly).

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I'd say it's a legitimate cause for concern.

SE doesn't support add ons and they're not actually legal to use, but that won't stop the community at large from requiring them if they become a common crutch for high tier content.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Yep, I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous some of these people sound. Like the comment I've quoted below.
At what point is the community going to require you changing the colour of magic damage text to blue a pre-requisite to you entering a raid.
It's just fearmongering, and I think most of it comes from a place of envy at not being able to complete hard content and wanting to take down those who do.

Toxic casuals are and have been the biggest problem this game has. Far, far worse than any client-side addons that people like to use.

I like Yoshi P's statement on it. What is a third-party addon and where does it end? Is Excel an addon? A calculator? Discord? When he says they don't know what's on your computer and will never know, he is legitimising client side addons. That was him saying they were okay. The only thing I've seen them upset about is using mods to make lewd images of children in game (Ryne mostly).

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Kinda weird since it is not real, so don't care people do that, whatever floats people boats. I guess the makers have passion and part of the chars are real to them in making the story. So it bothers them more...hey if they keep making good content with that mindset. I don't mind it.

I'm as casual as they come, and I think most casual people really don't care what raiders do or addons they use. The ones that say it is cheating or dislike it seems like a lot more because they are very loud or could be jealous console players who knows.. The only time we would have a problem, if they balance the content that we do around said addons, and they won't do it.


So if what you do and how you play will not hurt my content, or changes in the game, and I am WELL protected from being harass by players using it. I don't understand why people care, I feel like this is just a dumb sort of gatekeeping. If someone wants to use that combo addon that makes them hit the same button for a combo. Or chat bubbles. Why does that bother some people? It is weird.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Yep, I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous some of these people sound. Like the comment I've quoted below.
At what point is the community going to require you changing the colour of magic damage text to blue a pre-requisite to you entering a raid.
It's just fearmongering, and I think most of it comes from a place of envy at not being able to complete hard content and wanting to take down those who do.

Toxic casuals are and have been the biggest problem this game has. Far, far worse than any client-side addons that people like to use.

I like Yoshi P's statement on it. What is a third-party addon and where does it end? Is Excel an addon? A calculator? Discord? When he says they don't know what's on your computer and will never know, he is legitimising client side addons. That was him saying they were okay. The only thing I've seen them upset about is using mods to make lewd images of children in game (Ryne mostly).

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Add ons aren't limited to cosmetics. World of Warcraft has a alot of add ons that read incoming packets and create logistic signals to basically walk you through every mechanic in the game, sometimes making you aware of mechanics before there's even any visual indication. Reading through some of this thread it sounds like ACT has plugins with similar functions. WoWs dedicated modding community could probably expand on that considerably.

I don't even really care since I don't plan to do progression in this game; and if I did I wouldn't mind using add ons anyways (I used them all the time in WoW). I'm just stating the obvious; Mods can be crazy performance enhancers and if they become pervasive enough then they'll be required for serious progression in most cases.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

people will use these helpful tools to abuse others and shame them or just be miserable.

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And they would swiftly banned for doing so. In theory at least. This is often what gets overlooked in why WoW had so many problems with add ons, DPS meters and so forth. They literally did nothing to punish players who berated and harassed others. The tools themselves aren't going to cause toxicity to suddenly run rampant despite what many think. It's the minority of jerks being allowed to do as they please that would.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

And they would swiftly banned for doing so. In theory at least. This is often what gets overlooked in why WoW had so many problems with add ons, DPS meters and so forth. They literally did nothing to punish players who berated and harassed others. The tools themselves aren't going to cause toxicity to suddenly run rampant despite what many think. It's the minority of jerks being allowed to do as they please that would.

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But it can shape the balance of the game. That is why I say no to having them allowed and accepted.

They've made it pretty clear that the TOS is broadly written because it makes it easier to enforce correctly.

To clarify: if you wrote a TOS that was very specific and said, for instance, "parsing tools are permitted to aid in improving job performance, but using them to be abusive will be disallowed and may lead to a ban", you would have people examining all the terminology with a metaphorical scanning electron microscope looking for loopholes, because this is the internet and someone's always going to do that -- someone's going to try to find a way to obey the letter of the law while violating the spirit of it.

And then you have people who are like, "I wasn't being abusive, I just was providing constructive criticism! Very emphatically! Like Gordon Ramsay!" or whatever, trying to argue they shouldn't be banned.

Whereas if you just say "the use of third-party programs is disallowed save where explicitly indicated, and may lead to a ban" that gives them a lot more freedom in dealing with infractions.

If someone uses ACT for personal improvement (or within their static, sharing numbers with folks on console who can't otherwise measure their own performance), the devs are likely not going to care. Even if it's on a static's stream, they're probably not going to care, as long as the numbers are just being used by that static for personal improvement.

Start calling someone out in a dungeon ("You know, the healer should just leave you on the floor. Your DPS is so bad that them just casting Glare is a better use of the MP!") and hey, look, you were clearly parsing... that's a TOS violation, so long, don't let the door hit you on the way out, goodbye.

THAT SAID, there actually are a handful of third-party tools they've said are not considered problematic in any way and which are thus actually openly okay with them: notably, ReShade and its variants, used to do depth-buffer-aware post-processing via pixel shader injection. (I.e., change the colors to be more colorblind friendly, improve shadows/lighting, turn the game into a pencil sketch or an oil painting for artistic screenshot purposes, etc.) I don't feel like looking through this forum for the thread here in the last five minutes of my lunch break, because the forum search engine is kind of awful, but there is a thread somewhere here where they do explain that.

Additionally, Nvidia Freestyle (Nvidia's variant of ReShade) lists FFXIV in the officially supported games, with Square-Enix's permission and approval; you can find that one if you hit up the Nvidia website.

(The one request they did make in those threads that I recall is that if you take screenshots using shader injection, you don't manually add in the "Copyright Square-Enix" tagline on the bottom, because they don't want shader-modified images being mistaken for stock game images.)

Add-ons stole my wife, and ruined my mother! They are a menace that must be stopped!

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Threads like this remind ne that the XIV community dislikes the *potential* of aggression so much that they go full horseshoe and enshrine passive-aggression as some sort of moral imperative. They don't call you out for bad damage numbers on JP servers, nor do they often try to turn a bad pull into a teaching moment. They add you to the passive-aggressive 2ch blacklist and silently kick you going forward.

FF14 has a really pleasant community...on the surface. The "you don't pay my sub!" crowd is evidence that it's not exactly better. They're just cattier about conflict. The mere fact that the community actively hides from basic information like damage output and pretends that even knowing it is "cheating" speaks for itself.

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preach it, sister

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Add ons aren't limited to cosmetics. World of Warcraft has a alot of add ons that read incoming packets and create logistic signals to basically walk you through every mechanic in the game, sometimes making you aware of mechanics before there's even any visual indication. Reading through some of this thread it sounds like ACT has plugins with similar functions. WoWs dedicated modding community could probably expand on that considerably.

I don't even really care since I don't plan to do progression in this game; and if I did I wouldn't mind using add ons anyways (I used them all the time in WoW). I'm just stating the obvious; Mods can be crazy performance enhancers and if they become pervasive enough then they'll be required for serious progression in most cases.

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If this was a WoW forum and that's what we were discussing I'd care about your comments.

"add ons arent just cosmetic - this other game-"

I don't care about add ons in WoW, this is FFXIV.

ACT does not have the function to make you aware of mechanics before there is any visual. It's just an advanced calculator. There was a mod out there that could do what you said, but within days, a ton of people got banned for using it, and they changed stuff in the game that completely broke it so it wouldn't work.

There are no mods that the endgame community will require people to have for progression. That will never happen. Firstly, because of console, secondly because there's nothing out there that can give you such an advantage.

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Originally Posted by Jadedsins

Kinda weird since it is not real, so don't care people do that, whatever floats people boats. I guess the makers have passion and part of the chars are real to them in making the story. So it bothers them more...hey if they keep making good content with that mindset. I don't mind it.

I'm as casual as they come, and I think most casual people really don't care what raiders do or addons they use. The ones that say it is cheating or dislike it seems like a lot more because they are very loud or could be jealous console players who knows.. The only time we would have a problem, if they balance the content that we do around said addons, and they won't do it.


So if what you do and how you play will not hurt my content, or changes in the game, and I am WELL protected from being harass by players using it. I don't understand why people care, I feel like this is just a dumb sort of gatekeeping. If someone wants to use that combo addon that makes them hit the same button for a combo. Or chat bubbles. Why does that bother some people? It is weird.

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Yes, SquareEnix have morals and away of working which means they will never balance the game around add-ons like the other game does. It's why the community will never require you to use them, because at the end of the day they are not required and are only used by people to make their own experience better.

Harrasment is the problem - YoshiP said it himself, the third party tools are not the issue, it's using them to harass people. Thankfully, they are quick to ban those that do. So I don't understand the people who argue against their use. They don't affect other people and the moment that they do affect other people, they get a ban.

The vast majority of casual players are fine, but there is a small vocal minority of players who want to try and spoil it for others, because they are just pathetic. Players who think Defiance is a 10 second emnity cooldown, or pull with uncomboed mythril tempest, then go on to complain about elite players using cosmetic addons. Just need to look in the mirror and stop blaming others for their inadequacies.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

ACT does not have the function to make you aware of mechanics before there is any visual. It's just an advanced calculator.

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This isn't entirely true. There are various mechanics in the game where a packet is dispatched to the client ahead of the actual visual telegraph, allowing ACT/Cactbot to call the mechanic before any player can naturally see it. A good example of this was Optical Sight in A11s; The game packet that specified which pattern Cruise Chaser was using was dispatched at the start of the castbar, while the actual visual telegraph came out at the end of the castbar. This gave players an additional 2-3 seconds to position for the mechanic, which is definitely an unfair advantage.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

ACT does not have the function to make you aware of mechanics before there is any visual. It's just an advanced calculator. There was a mod out there that could do what you said, but within days, a ton of people got banned for using it, and they changed stuff in the game that completely broke it so it wouldn't work.

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This isn't actually accurate; a lot of times, an MMO will have to send data to the client ahead-of-time so that the client knows which animations to start and such, and if something is parsing network activity and people learn what that particular data represents in that particular fight, they could certainly add early callouts. (That said, I've been in groups where a raid-caller can recognize a mechanic a full second or two before the caller in another group can based on just the beginning of an animation, or a difference in sound effects, so there's going to be variance in that stuff even without third-party tools in use.)

The thing you mention about an addon that they shut down/broke was actually with regards to waymarks. Specifically, the game did not previously have a way to save some marker presets (which can be very important in raids), and there was a third-party tool that would let you save markers, and then place them automatically. A lot of statics used that, simply so they had a way to have standardized markers.

And that wasn't really an unbalancing factor, nor (demonstrably) one Square-Enix cared about at the time. Sure, you saved time at the start of raid because you could click one button to put down your waymarks, instead of having to sit there for five minutes while someone carefully set them up by hand. It wasn't like it was going to wildly unbalance the raiding scene.

But then I gather some folks used the same method of setting waymarks to make triggers that would swap the markers around mid-fight, based on reading-ahead-of-time network stuff, like mentioned above. So, I guess there was a program which would change the raid markers per-mechanic without requiring anyone to call-out or think, allowing everyone to execute on stuff by just blindly following those. That, Square-Enix didn't like (rather understandably), and so they blocked it by making it impossible on the server side to change raid markers while in combat.

(And they gave us five in-game marker preset slots while doing so, since the functionality for setting them up outside of combat was useful.)

Admittedly, I feel like five isn't enough presets for folks who run a lot of content regularly, so I know there are people out there who still use the original "let me store as many raid marker presets as I want" tools -- I've raided with some of them. But you can no longer change the markers mid-fight, so it got rid of the move-them-automatically-for-the-mechanic tool that was the thing actually causing problems.

As long as SE doesn’t design the game with them in mind, it doesn’t matter

You have to remember, without third party tools, we wouldn't have player concerts. Well, I guess we would, but they'd be rare and harder for people to pull off. Not all tools/plugins are this evil bad bogyman yet people seem to think so.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Threads like this remind ne that the XIV community dislikes the *potential* of aggression so much that they go full horseshoe and enshrine passive-aggression as some sort of moral imperative. They don't call you out for bad damage numbers on JP servers, nor do they often try to turn a bad pull into a teaching moment. They add you to the passive-aggressive 2ch blacklist and silently kick you going forward.

FF14 has a really pleasant community...on the surface. The "you don't pay my sub!" crowd is evidence that it's not exactly better. They're just cattier about conflict. The mere fact that the community actively hides from basic information like damage output and pretends that even knowing it is "cheating" speaks for itself.

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Very often being sympathetic is all that it takes, players who do that are very rare.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

They've been in use since coil.

Nothing has changed.


The only ones people got real up in arms were the radars for hunts. That really pissed people off, and rightfully so.

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If I recall correctly there was also a tool at the start of Shadowbringers that automatically placed markers for safe spots from certain mechanics that people were using to basically trivialize content by having a tool read the game for you and tell you what to do, and they ended up patching that out by not letting you update markers after the start of a fight

A lot of people seem to forget that this is a cross-platform game. Addons that give players an advantage over others will never be fully supported and nor should they as long as this game has a split playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

They've made it pretty clear that the TOS is broadly written because it makes it easier to enforce correctly.

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That and the TOS is more of a CYA than a hard and fast rule. Square Enix makes it very clear that playing third party music is not allowed. However...do you see them ever enforcing it? The reason they don't is because they don't really care that you're doing it. They care about being sued if the copyright holder catches you doing it. Since Universal Music Group likely doesn't have copyright agents slinking around Limsa looking for players to sue, this doesn't really happen. The *real* point behind that part of the TOS is that, in the case of any conflict arising due to copyright claims (i.e. if you upload your performance on youtube and Sony gets pissy) they aren't liable for anything.

Take this attitude and extend it to plugins, and that's why Square isn't really all that concerned with plugins that don't give gameplay advantages. They don't produce them, they don't control them, they aren't at fault or responsible if something happens with them. Outside that, they have no impetus to care. Squawking on the forums about "cheeeeeeeating" be damned.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

They've never really been a big part of this games culture.

Add ons are a MASSIVE part of WoWs culture, though, and the WoW community is transitioning to FFXIV in not small numbers. Since there's nothing really stopping the use of add ons in this game, besides some mild inconvenience and an official/unofficial stance against them, I could see a culture shift happening.

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I do wish more WoW players would try to use the ui that is given to them instead of going straight to using add-ons. Sure if someone uses the base ui a lot and feels something is missing then go ahead and get it. However I have seen quite a lot who search for add-ons when they barely have started the game, complaining it looks too different to what they're used to...of course it looks different. IT'S A DIFFERENT GAME. I was a hardcore player in WoW and I can use the base ui of FFXIV just fine. All I had to do was get used to a new game. It's not complicated.

The worst is when I see someone who has add-ons that actively hide important things in the ui. I saw an ex-WoW player streaming and their ui was set up in a way that they could only see three buffs/debuffs on each party member...if they ever heal they will quickly find out what a terrible idea that is. Sigh. I saw someone else hide their enemy list and then complain that they can't see the castbars of anything that isn't their target lol.

I just want players to give the ui a chance and give themselves a chance to get used to it instead of immediately thinking something is wrong with it for the simple fact that it looks different.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

If I recall correctly there was also a tool at the start of Shadowbringers that automatically placed markers for safe spots from certain mechanics that people were using to basically trivialize content by having a tool read the game for you and tell you what to do, and they ended up patching that out by not letting you update markers after the start of a fight

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Not quite. Paisley Park is the tool in question that got so much attention. It didn't automatically place markers but rather could save an unlimited number of presets that you could then alt-tab to and swap placements. The backlash it received was honestly ridiculously overblown because it didn't impact TPS' World First clear in the slightest. All it did was save the SCH having to replace markers constantly, which they did during downtime anyway.

Now there were other programs that could auto place markers but Paisley is what caused the backlash.

I don't care about graphical mods but there are an increasing number of youtubers who promote the use of gameplay altering modifications and SE does nothing about it, which imo tacitly approves their use for everyone.

There are people who don't use addons?

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Originally Posted by Khancer

I don't care about graphical mods but there are an increasing number of youtubers who promote the use of gameplay altering modifications and SE does nothing about it, which imo tacitly approves their use for everyone.

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I'm going to assume you're talking about those "ping correction" mods that alter/reduce the delay between actions in order to simulate how fast you could be doing stuff with an optimal ping.

While it's technically operating within legitimate boundaries, it can very easily can be used to go beyond what is actually possible with an unmodded client, so yeah, stuff like that shouldn't be allowed to slide.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Not quite. Paisley Park is the tool in question that got so much attention. It didn't automatically place markers but rather could save an unlimited number of presets that you could then alt-tab to and swap placements. The backlash it received was honestly ridiculously overblown because it didn't impact TPS' World First clear in the slightest. All it did was save the SCH having to replace markers constantly, which they did during downtime anyway.

Now there were other programs that could auto place markers but Paisley is what caused the backlash.

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I think a lot of players conflated the two; when people heard about the add-ons that could automatically place markers *without* player action (I.e. off of automated triggers) and then saw people using a tool that could place markers automatically when a player clicked a preset in a list, they confused the two.

The one that just saved presets was, as I understand it, functionally little different than the five presets they give us in game now... just not limited to five.

do you people want se to see what you have installed on your pc? because this is how you get that

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Not quite. Paisley Park is the tool in question that got so much attention. It didn't automatically place markers but rather could save an unlimited number of presets that you could then alt-tab to and swap placements. The backlash it received was honestly ridiculously overblown because it didn't impact TPS' World First clear in the slightest. All it did was save the SCH having to replace markers constantly, which they did during downtime anyway.

Now there were other programs that could auto place markers but Paisley is what caused the backlash.

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It isn't overblown. It gave advantages. ACT and Paisley are different. ACT just calculate numbers, Paisley literally helps you perform better by helping you place markers faster, during a mechanic that matters the most.

This game was made in such a way that add-ons aren't required, and it's kinda disgusting how many new players are thinking that they are the norm when they really aren't.

There are a ton of Add-ons that make the QoL in the game so much better. People don't install add-ons because they are the norm, they install add-ons to have a better gaming experience.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

They've never really been a big part of this games culture.

Add ons are a MASSIVE part of WoWs culture, though, and the WoW community is transitioning to FFXIV in not small numbers. Since there's nothing really stopping the use of add ons in this game, besides some mild inconvenience and an official/unofficial stance against them, I could see a culture shift happening.

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Eh, people have been coming here from WoW for years. There's just more folks now.

The difference is that WoW is designed with add-ons in mind, and FFXIV is not.

And, admittedly this is just my personal opinion, WoW's base UI is hot ugly spiced garbage. It's not half as customizable as I'd like, a lot of the defaults just don't look good, and the font scaling options leave a lot to be desired. I have godawful eyesight and had to spend FAR too much time just trying to find an add-on that would change WoW's quest text into something I could read without leaning in and squinting at my screen. I had to get an add-on to make the chat log text bigger too.

I don't have that problem in FF. Partly because the font they use in the quest log is actually readable, but also in large part because it already has a lot of customization and scaling options built in.

Most of my add-ons in WoW weren't even really oriented toward combat at all, outside of the small handful that also make a pretty darn big difference in raiding (even then I only used a handful... Dbm, decursive, and details were all I really needed beyond basic UI stuff). It was mostly cosmetic and fun stuff anyway, like transmog and achievement trackers, rare spawn maps, adding coordinates to the map, etc etc.

I don't use add-ons here because I don't need to.

well op you can pretty much go to any streamer and see act SE should just ban the whole lot of them when they make their tos violation so blatantly obvious that's like filming your self robbing a bank then posting it online and wondering how you got caught

it's not even a violation of your rights as your using their game they are fully within their rights to ban you for media you made public showing you in bold violation of the terms of service

If you ever want to do raiding / high end content you do need dps meters that's the best tool to improve and see what you're doing wrong.
FF XIV does provide that too with raid / extremes dummies but it's far less efficient than having real numbers obviously, still act / fflogs when you're in mood to learn / improve is an amazing tool and it hurts no one.
Some will use this tool the wrong way but can you blame a compagny that makes hammer if ppl use it wrongly and get hurt ? No you dont, that's ppls fault not the tool.
The devs do know those tools and they do know it's really useful that's why they'll never do something about it.
I did play on ps4 for years, so no ACT and only training dummies to git gud, you can still be good at the game only with those but it lacks way too much stuff if you want to do things perfectly.

I love how some make it like "huh dps meters in MY game ? god no" cool, no one force you to use it anyway, but some wants to be at least decent at the game and it's the best tool for that.

That being said there is some third party tools that are straight up cheating and yeah it's a bad thing for the game overall but that's the price to pay to not have spyware on our PC checking everything, and i'm fine with that i dont mind ppl cheating in PvE content just to flex later, i do stuff the legit way and i enjoy my game that way with ppl with the same mindset as me that's it.
And you do hard content only for you, if you do it to brag that's just sad and shows how insecure you are to flex on that but w/e.

I dont blame ppl modding their game for glamour and housing despite i do hate those parts of the game and cant stand most RP players, still i wont try to shut them down because they use third party tools for their experience and i expect the same with ppl regarding raiding stuff.

Btw they do "shadowban" streamers / youtubers and ppl using ACT, i know few ppl that are blacklisted by SE for a video using third parties.

SE has banned people who have posted on youtube videos of 3rd party tools. But it's rare and far between. But if it gets bad enough where it is a clear advantage they will lock down the code.

If a timer goes off to avoid something they have said that crosses the line.
If it is up to put icons in a different place they don't care.

Sadly SE has taken a stance of DADT, Which will sadly blow up in their face at some point.

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Originally Posted by Izscha

If you ever want to do raiding / high end content you do need dps meters that's the best tool to improve and see what you're doing wrong.
FF XIV does provide that too with raid / extremes dummies but it's far less efficient than having real numbers obviously, still act / fflogs when you're in mood to learn / improve is an amazing tool and it hurts no one.
Some will use this tool the wrong way but can you blame a compagny that makes hammer if ppl use it wrongly and get hurt ? No you dont, that's ppls fault not the tool.
The devs do know those tools and they do know it's really useful that's why they'll never do something about it.
I did play on ps4 for years, so no ACT and only training dummies to git gud, you can still be good at the game only with those but it lacks way too much stuff if you want to do things perfectly.

I love how some make it like "huh dps meters in MY game ? god no" cool, no one force you to use it anyway, but some wants to be at least decent at the game and it's the best tool for that.

That being said there is some third party tools that are straight up cheating and yeah it's a bad thing for the game overall but that's the price to pay to not have spyware on our PC checking everything, and i'm fine with that i dont mind ppl cheating in PvE content just to flex later, i do stuff the legit way and i enjoy my game that way with ppl with the same mindset as me that's it.
And you do hard content only for you, if you do it to brag that's just sad and shows how insecure you are to flex on that but w/e.

I dont blame ppl modding their game for glamour and housing despite i do hate those parts of the game and cant stand most RP players, still i wont try to shut them down because they use third party tools for their experience and i expect the same with ppl regarding raiding stuff.

Btw they do "shadowban" streamers / youtubers and ppl using ACT, i know few ppl that are blacklisted by SE for a video using third parties.

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I very much disagree.
When I had more time. I was doing all EX content as it was current. Never used 3rd party tools.
All the console players that clear it do it without using 3rd party tools.
Just people some people aren't good enough to play without cheating or they need the crunch doesn't mean everyone does.
At one point my raid group had one person who used act, There was also one player who really needed help on how to play he want from bottom DPS just above me as a Warrior. to 2nd DPS by the info the 2 of them worked out.
But I as a warrior knew my job 95%, and my BRD my main DPS I was good with. my WHM I was happy with my over cure numbers/DPS But act didn't help me get there I already was.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

SE has banned people who have posted on youtube videos of 3rd party tools. But it's rare and far between. But if it gets bad enough where it is a clear advantage they will lock down the code.

If a timer goes off to avoid something they have said that crosses the line.
If it is up to put icons in a different place they don't care.

Sadly SE has taken a stance of DADT, Which will sadly blow up in their face at some point.





I very much disagree.
When I had more time. I was doing all EX content as it was current. Never used 3rd party tools.
All the console players that clear it do it without using 3rd party tools.
Just people some people aren't good enough to play without cheating or they need the crunch doesn't mean everyone does.
At one point my raid group had one person who used act, There was also one player who really needed help on how to play he want from bottom DPS just above me as a Warrior. to 2nd DPS by the info the 2 of them worked out.
But I as a warrior knew my job 95%, and my BRD my main DPS I was good with. my WHM I was happy with my over cure numbers/DPS But act didn't help me get there I already was.

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Extremes aren't high end content but i do understand where you're coming from to some it might be.
You clearly dont need to play good to do those hence the clear rate and the number of groups doing it in party finder.
But you can't take extremes as exemple when i talk about playing right / be good, those dont need that at all.
I'm not judging you or anything but let's face it extremes aren't hard, at all and that's the first step to do raiding stuff later if you want and think those are easy.
It's a difficulty spike for most ppl because they're not used to have to respect mecanics with dungeons / raid 24 as the only real content before max level, even under gear you can fail mecanics and still be alive no big deal, extremes aren't so soft about it.
And sorry to doubt it, but you cant see by yourself how good you are or not only because you do pass extremes, when i use the word good is ppl that do mecanics right 95 % of the time ( fails do happen no one is perfect ) and do have a good dps at the same time, our difference must be mostly about the definition of good and i'm probably in the wrong here because i judge ppl's skill around content that i do, which is content most ppl dont bother to even try.
Once again i'm not saying that what you do is bad and you're a terrible player, just that we dont do the same stuff and our definition of things aren't the same.

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Originally Posted by Arabellez

It isn't overblown. It gave advantages. ACT and Paisley are different. ACT just calculate numbers, Paisley literally helps you perform better by helping you place markers faster, during a mechanic that matters the most.

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The SCH in TPS placed markers down during downtime/Alex burn when he literally had nothing else to do. All Paisley did was safe him tedium of doing that every single pull; of which they were doing several hundred. They didn't auto position during mechanics.

One thing I always dislike about these types of threads is it assumes Square Enix is staffed by morons blind to everything on Twitch even after issuing multiple statements with more clarification then we have gotten in years.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

This game was made in such a way that add-ons aren't required, and it's kinda disgusting how many new players are thinking that they are the norm when they really aren't.

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Disgusting? What's the need for such word? If people come from a game where add-ons are very common, it's not surprising that they would look for stuff like that in ffxiv as well. Tbh I don't care. I don't feel the need of many addons but most of the time it doesn't change anything for me if people are using then so whatever.

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Originally Posted by Melorie

Disgusting? What's the need for such word? If people come from a game where add-ons are very common, it's not surprising that they would look for stuff like that in ffxiv as well. Tbh I don't care. I don't feel the need of many addons but most of the time it doesn't change anything for me if people are using then so whatever.

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But FF14 hasn't an addon API. There are no real addons possible like in WoW. I see no danger here. But i wished that the UI would be more configurable.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by HolyReign

I'm not a fan of Addons, far too many people using them, and for what, to tell if they're top dog on the charts/parses?

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Nope. To tell whether or not I already own a minion or mount or orchestrion roll at a glance.

That is all. That and text improvement so my old broke-ass eyes can actually read the text.

Think about users like myself when you formulate your opinion about addons, not just the people wanting to be "top dog on the charts."