People that say this game is too easy

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Originally Posted by linay

If you've been playing the game and are caught up with gearing, you should not be on Weathered gear by the time Copied Factory was released, at least not on your main. But the fact there are people who are late at gearing (or are playing alt job) might increase your chance at getting higher parse at the beginning, assuming you are caught up with the game.

But yes, everything is harder at min ilvl.

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Well that's what I did,
I started in Weathered while earning the tokens for Ronken, while simultaneously grabbing pieces of Yhorah and earning the tokens for Deepshadow just like you would have if you'd have started off.

Its a whole new experience playing it at the iLvls it was intended at.

Or how about this since I saw a lot of it... go put on your old Deepshadow and see how well you do at the new raids. You're not going to be getting orange parces in it unless you are really really good... or the first person to lay down a parce.

That's the way its going to be for a new player, because they aren't going to have tens of millions of gil to be dropping on HQ Ishgardian gear.

They are going to have to gear up slowly, which means a ton of Copied Factory runs to even GET Augmented Deepshadow. Let alone the Eden Titan runs to get the Deepshadow Weapon. They might be able to scratch up enough for a HQ Ishgardian weapon but that will be about it.

Comparing the game to itself, I think the game has become...not easy, but too comfortable over the years due to the amount of streamlining that has occurred.
Almost everything within the game is pretty cookie-cutter as expansions go. In some areas the streamlining is good , some aren't, but oh well. I personally don't like the direction but I still somewhat enjoy the game nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Lol no its not. Not at the original gear levels it was intended at.

Go put on your old Weathered Gear from the ending of the Shadowbringers campaign... then run Copied Factory which is how you would have originally played it and see if you can parce Orange. Hell even in Ronkan Gear.

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It doesn't work that way, logs don't have ilv brackets so you'd be compared to everyone even with Savage gear.

Darsien is correct anyway. Gearing is part of putting effort in too and many players don't even care about that, despite Crafted being the easiest so far, 8 man Normal loot being the easiest to obtain so far and Hunt trains raining tomes and materia on you.

I've never done current Savage thus have no Savage gear, I play on a laptop with a 2 button office mouse and even I can hit orange on pretty much any casual content I want, even with a few minor mistakes. It's definitely easy if you care about performance.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

"Put yourself 30-60 ilvls lower then the current average player then do it! See? Can't do it!"

1) Anyone who had been playing even casually at that time was 460 when Copied Factory came out. At 460 I could get Orange+ easily. It's only a 16kish DPS req at the moment, which is trivial with a Dancer.
2) If you intentionally gimp your own gear as a challenge, easy things become harder. News at 11.

Did you even think before you made this response? It's easy. If you find it isn't, then you need to improve. If you feel you don't, then you need to improve all the more because that sort of mentality is counter-productive to a discussion about the difficulty of hitting certain skill breakpoints.

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Oh no I absolutely did think it through before I posted... you obviously did not.

Many people on this thread directly stated to you the game is NOT easy at the gear score and levels it was intended to be played at originally.

My point stands.

Go put on your old Weathered Gear or your old Ronken gear and go run Copied Factory... see if its still "faceroll easy" like is claimed. And you are not going to be "parcing orange" with it.

Never confuse Gear Score with Player skill or game difficulty.

I am an old-school MMO player (coming from Ragnarok Online, Lineage 2 and mostly FFXI) and compared to those games, FFXIV for me is easier in the sense of way more approachable and casual friendly.

On those games, trying to upgrade your gear and failing meant you could completely lose that piece of gear.
Dying meant losing experience points and even levels and moving from one city to the other meant having to physically travel between zones, or take ships which you had to wait for and that took several minutes before they reached their destination.
The open world was dangerous, and getting aggroed by a monster even 10 levels below you meant they would chase you across half the map if you were lucky enough to survive, or getting killed in a few hits depending on your class. Travelling alone in the high-level areas was never a good idea.
Obtaining the best gear available in the game was something you had to earn after putting months worth of effort, due to them having extremely low drop rates or being gated behind extremely long and hard quests.

Take relic weapons on FFXI as an example. They were hands down the hardest pieces of gear to get, and they rewarded you for your efforts by unlocking exclusive weapon skills that were most of the time extremely strong, and the weapons themselves were leagues above the others in the game in terms of raw damage output.
On the other hand, the hardest weapons to get on FFXIV are the ones you get from Ultimate raids, yet they only reward you with an extra materia slot which isn't really worth the hassle, so that casual players don't need to worry about not being able to get them.

Another example would be the Blessed Tackleking's Rod, which can be obtained after fishing 780 unique types of fish. If this was an old-school MMO, that fishing rod would undoubtedly be the best in the game, due to the effort required in order to get it.
However, on FFXIV that piece of gear is solely for glamour purposes, since the currently best fishing rod can be bought from the market board for around 300k gil, which are easily affordable by anyone.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

If you're unaware, here's 2 things to consider:

1) It's very possible to play more then 1 game at a time.
2) When I first made my account has no bearing on when I decided to care about my performance.

Your strawman aside, it doesn't change the fact that anyone who puts forth effort can achieve purples, or higher, in all casual content and likely the first 2 turns of the current savage tier. Your statement that it is difficult is false for the reason I mentioned earlier: the vast majority of the player base doesn't care about their performance. Even just learning the basic fundamentals of this game is enough to get orange in casual content/extremes with little or no job knowledge.

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Thats very humble of you to assume everyone around you is stupid and cannot play the game right way. :D

Your conceity walks before you, since you main 3 jobs for over 7 years, who would have thought that you may be able to get them to such high number with so much time of practice.
Prove me wrong and play War and get orange because it sooo easy apparently not asking for too much war is the easiest tank to play. Since you are claiming that it only requires basic understanding of game mechanics and you dont need to know how jobs works.

i was grey GNB 5 minutes ago and i am no longer one, guess what happened hehehe

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Originally Posted by MoonPhaseAlpha

FFXIV is a lot of rinse and repeat. Once you memorize the mechanics, you can go into a dungeon, raid or trial blindfolded with one hand tied behind your back. This game is a choreographed dance. Learn the steps and practice. Rinse and repeat.

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For those of us who only run a given dungeon once per month - at most - there is no chance of being able to memorize all the mechanics, let alone the timing. Then it is not so easy when you have to react on the fly and figure out what to do. Or rather where to go, since what to do is 90% of the time to avoid an AOE.

Somedays ago, I talked with someone on instagram who complained about that the boss fights have mechanics and that the combat should be like in ff 11 where there are no mechanics.

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Ehm, no wonder the game is made easier if people like dat complain about learning mechanics.

Everything outside instance is dumb filler where the concept of "failing" doesn't even exist, and most instanced content are made to be accomplished with 99.99% certitude. And since it wasn't enough, updates are done so that older content get even easier.
Also, the game doesn't use many parameters to construct its difficulty. Even the "hardest" boss is just that : a boss. Do your rotation as always, follow gimmicks, and voila. Every boss since ARR are the same.

Thus, as a whole, the game is very easy.

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Originally Posted by foussi

Somedays ago, I talked with someone on instagram who complained about that the boss fights have mechanics and that the combat should be like in ff 11 where there are no mechanics.

.............

Ehm, no wonder the game is made easier if people like dat complain about learning mechanics.

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That's doubly false, since, first, FFXI boss do have gimmicks, but, second, FFXI doesn't rely only on boss gimmicks to build its difficulty : as a whole, it's harder ; there are more challenges.

not being "the easiest thing you can think of" doesn't mean it's not easy?

i will give XIV credit that it's difficulty DOES scale way up if you look for it, but the part that most players spend most of their time engaged with (plot, roulettes)... IS super easy.

most dungeons can be done by any 2 jobs so long as one of them is a healer. this becomes a problem because players can progress so far while being SO bad. then when they reach anything where their contribution matters even the tiniest amount, they struggle and drag the party down hard. every expansion we get hundreds of pages of posts about how X plot trial is WAY too hard... is it really? was nidhogg THAT bad? was shinryu SO hard? is hades TRULY unbeatable?

VRIL!? the whole trial is solved by one button... i've NEVER done that trial where all 8 players just hit the button. not ONCE.

the bar is so low you can ROLL over it, and that causes problems down the line.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

I've been gaming in general for close to 40. Games in general have been getting easier and that decline really started when companies started pandering to noisy minorities of their playerbase that wouldn't stop crying on the internet.

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So, basically, for the past quarter century.

Your reminiscence of past MMOs may be fond, but I remember the frustration of spending two days trying to figure out where to swim to reach the half-an-amulet necessary for Druid water-form. Folks didn't read quest text back then either.

Dropping the slot car race track design of instances wouldn't result in better, more interesting instances. For an example, I refer you to the circa 2008 version of the Mauradon dungeon, including the map. It results in a long journey, frought with an almost guaranteed 30 minutes of getting lost/having to backtrack, or abandon the instance after an hour. Or the new-and-improved slot car race track design of Mauradon.

Those of you saying FFXIV is easy once you memorize the mechanics on boss fights...uh...well, you literally just described every video game ever.

Seriously.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Those of you saying FFXIV is easy once you memorize the mechanics on boss fights...uh...well, you literally just described every video game ever.

Seriously.

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There's also the fact that boss fights are heavily scripted so they will do the same routine every encounter without fail unless you skip/cheese mechanics. It makes the game feel...predictable.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

There's also the fact that boss fights are heavily scripted so they will do the same routine every encounter without fail unless you skip/cheese mechanics. It makes the game feel...predictable.

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It's a great learning tool.

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Oh, you mean like how SAMs rotation currently relies on incredibly tight timings of your rotation or you risk losing tons of dps due to skills not lining up?

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No, it's not at all like that.

A samurai who clips a few skills is still pulling competitive damage.

Feral druids who had ping above a certain number were doing damage so much lower than other dps that they either had to reroll to something else, sit on raids, or learn how to heal.

We're talking like "I might sneeze a few times before this boss dies, so I'll be doing tank dps" on a class that also had to effectively use double to triple the consumables of caster dps.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

There's also the fact that boss fights are heavily scripted so they will do the same routine every encounter without fail unless you skip/cheese mechanics. It makes the game feel...predictable.

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Again, that's every video game ever. And I'm not even trying to be snarky. Just stating a fact. Super Mario Brothers on NES was easy once you memorized the levels and the mechanics. So was Contra and Castlevania. You can go all the way back to Donkey Kong and Pac-Man. Dragon's Lair and Space Ace were the first animated games. They were as intimidating as they were cool.

Until you realized it was all a matter of simply memorizing the moves.

The point is, every scripted video game ever becomes trivial if you memorize the mechanics involved. The only games that can legitimately be unpredictable are PvP and sports games, where you are competing against other humans. So, saying FFXIV is easy once you know how it works doesn't really hold water because you can say that about virtually every game.

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Originally Posted by Lium

The point is, every scripted video game ever becomes trivial if you memorize the mechanics involved. The only games that can legitimately be unpredictable are PvP and sports games, where you are competing against other humans. So, saying FFXIV is easy once you know how it works doesn't really hold water because you can say that about virtually every game.

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...Which really doesn't disregard FFXIV being an easy game then? Basically you're saying every other game is easy because of that, and FFXIV is the same. So how does that make FFXIV different then?
I'm personally not saying that FFXIV is easy though, but that's a pretty contradictory statement.

Ngl, at first I thought this thread title said sexy instead of easy so I was like, "Wellll, just look at the army of waifus and husbandos SE keeps throwing at us!"

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Can confirm, I am not that good at the game, even after 7 years, and I have quite a bit of ping, and even I managed to pull an orange deeps in casual content, which I don’t use food or pots for.

I am kinda depressed that my only orange (I think) is on ingles, of all things, lol

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Not sure if someone already replied to this. But I'd its casual content then yes it is easier to get an orange but not to burst anybody bubble but its because the higher skilled players don't bother with ex primals usually. Only a hand full go outta their way to sit and parse an ex primal.


If you want to test your skill and knowledge of the fight, savage is where its at.
Not ex primals and especially 24man.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

...Which really doesn't disregard FFXIV being an easy game then? Basically you're saying every other game is easy because of that, and FFXIV is the same. So how does that make FFXIV different then?
I'm personally not saying that FFXIV is easy though, but that's a pretty contradictory statement.

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What I'm saying is, the counterargument being used by some in this thread, that FFXIV is easy once you memorize boss mechanics, isn't really a counterargument at all, because you can say that about, essentially, any game ever made. That still doesn't mean FFXIV isn't more challenging than a game like WoW.

It just means it becomes easier when you memorize things. But again, so is, like, everything in life.

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Originally Posted by Lium

What I'm saying is, the counterargument being used by some in this thread, that FFXIV is easy once you memorize boss mechanics, isn't really a counterargument at all, because you can say that about, essentially, any game ever made. That still doesn't mean FFXIV isn't more challenging than a game like WoW.

It just means it becomes easier when you memorize things. But again, so is, like, everything in life.

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Hmm...Fair enough. I wouldn't want to over-complicate things further.
What I think though, difficulty is very subjective thing and it depends on someone's ability to do certain tasks. For example, memorizing things can be difficult for some people, for some it's not. I just think it's a debate that would hold no objective conclusion.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

If you want to test your skill and knowledge of the fight, savage is where its at.
Not ex primals and especially 24man.

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Yeah, that’s my point :P I was responding to a guy who said it was easy to get purple and oranges in casual content :P

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Yeah, that’s my point :P I was responding to a guy who said it was easy to get purple and oranges in casual content :P

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Ooo ok. Sorry, this thread is big and didn't really read anything. Take it as expending your comment to said person!

I just got back in after a couple month break and yeah Holy smokes I forgot how hard this game gets there is comparatively a ton of micro art the job level, I'm back to staring at my hot bars again and getting boofed by mechanics or watching mechanics and doing crappy trick /pb windows.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

If you want to test your skill and knowledge of the fight, savage is where its at.
Not ex primals and especially 24man.

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Well, if you want to test your skill and knowledge of a fight, you just do that particular fight. Doesn't really matter if it's Ultimate/Savage/EX/Alliance/NM/etc.

I know... semantics. I get what you mean though and have to agree to a certain extent. Ultimate/Savage is the top of the skill tree when it comes to FFXIV. It has the tightest windows, the highest demand, and far more punishing when someone screws something up. This doesn't necessarily mean it's, "where it's at" though. All this means is that the content outside Savage/Ultimate has less of a demand from players; it isn't absent of it.

As players improve with their chosen disciplines, they progress through the casual content and get better at those respective encounters. Their skill progression becomes stagnant in this content though, and the only thing left is to seek encounters with greater demands to continue to put their skill and reaction times to the test. What you probably need to know is that it is not the content, but the player that determines this. For some (and I know of such players), they start to have trouble with anything after dungeons. For others (I know of these too), they literally yawn in any content outside Ultimate and Savage.

To say the game is "easy", or "difficult" is entirely subjective. What I do find to be true is that the game does tier the difficulty (demand from players). I'd say it goes something like: Dungeons < NM Trials < NM Raids < EX trials < EX raids and Ultimate. I actually left alliance raids out of that altogether because you can basically lump those in with dungeons, but on a much grander scale. I included dungeons only because we all have to start somewhere when it comes to grouping with others. However, it would be really difficult to gauge player skill level based on dungeons and 24-man. This data can be collected from anything 8-man though. That is where it's at.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I am kinda depressed that my only orange (I think) is on ingles, of all things, lol

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Worth reminding people, because it's easy to lose sight of in a thread discussing how easy everything is and how lots of people don't try, that even a blue log in casual content is more than fine and anything higher is good. It's much easier than Savage, but you still need to avoid mechanics and know your rotation properly to do well. If you do that, great job. And orange is better than the large majority of players at your content level.
So you can give yourself a pat on the back if you do well, even on casual and if you die on Normal mode or struggle starting off, that's fine as long as you keep trying. We aren't machines, we all slip up and we all have to start somewhere. Take good runs as motivation to keep improving.

I'd be very happy with a full group of low-green players in an EX trial, if they were friendly, trying their best, communicating and learning mechanics. I'd consider them all decent and could see them going on to do far better in the future.
The issue is with players who don't want to try. Who can't even be bothered getting the 480 gear before they jump into endgame groups when it's practically handed to them. Who refuse to take advice on rotations. Who fail SSS once and decide it's stupid and overtuned and ignore it. Who don't meld or use food. Who refuse to dps on a healer because healers heal, and so on. Then content is continually made easier and easier to get that type of player through and they get lazier and lazier in response, creating a never ending cycle of increasing simplicity. Those are the bad players.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Well, if you want to test your skill and knowledge of a fight, you just do that particular fight. Doesn't really matter if it's Ultimate/Savage/EX/Alliance/NM/etc.

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You don't say? I never would have guessed! Strawmans argument but you already said its semantics so why even say it?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I know... semantics. I get what you mean though and have to agree to a certain extent. Ultimate/Savage is the top of the skill tree when it comes to FFXIV. It has the tightest windows, the highest demand, and far more punishing when someone screws something up. This doesn't necessarily mean it's, "where it's at" though. All this means is that the content outside Savage/Ultimate has less of a demand from players; it isn't absent of it.

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But it does actually, the raid community set the standard not I.
If you go to look for a static nobody is gonna look at your ex primal parses and be like Yup, this guy is good. I mean to be fair, it does show you know how to play your job if its a high parse.
So I want to say I don't fully disagree because you can know how to play your job but still be crappy at a certain fight, however nobody will really care if you don't know how to play your job in actual punishing content ((though since Ultimate is kinda the top of the top, nobody really cares if you did crap dps as long as you cleared seeing as less then 5% of people can even clear it in NA.))

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Originally Posted by Gemina

As players improve with their chosen disciplines, they progress through the casual content and get better at those respective encounters. Their skill progression becomes stagnant in this content though, and the only thing left is to seek encounters with greater demands to continue to put their skill and reaction times to the test.

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Which is why people look at your savage parses not your ex primals or your 24mans.
They want to see that you can actually play at high level and still perform well at your job at an acceptable level.
((Also again nobody really looks how well you did in ultimate as long as you cleared honestly. Because there is a low chance you got carried unless you like....bought the clear. Only very small group of hardcore people might care how well you did but more often than not, nobody will. Even a majority of hardcore statics.))