Primal drop system, still no changes?!

Its fine the way it is.

I dont want 100% drop rate on anything in a MMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinheart

Knew this was going to happen when I was reading the JP rep post and translating lol.



Most likely because they are adding Garuda in 1.22 so 20 for Garuda, 10 for Moogle, 5 for Ifrit and later patch with next primal. __(next primal)__ 20, Garuda 10, Moogle 5, Ifrit 5 (or 3) is my guess.

---

you may be right, only time will tell. If patterns persist, one day you will just go talk to the npc and he will give you the weapons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hello everyone!

We looked into increasing the drop rate and allowing each party member to receive a inferno totem or kupo nut charm with each winning encounter, but instead of touching up on the drop rate, we decided to make adjustments to the number of required totems and nut charms.

In patch 1.22, the below changes are what we have planned:

• Inferno Totems: 10 → 5
• Kupo Nut Charms: 20 → 10

The reason we decided on this change is because if we changed the drop rate, there would still be unlucky players who would complain that they can't get an item, so we decided to not play with the drop rate and instead just change the amount of items required for exchange for a weapon.

---

Or in other words, your luck may still royally suck!

What's another 60 runs for 1 totem now that I need only 5 of them, right?
Better yet, maybe I get another duplicate I cannot trade or pass loot or exchange for GC seals /joy.

The new primal fight is soon to be introduced (Garuda) as well as the AF weapons. I love how the devs actually "think" ahead and reason that people will surely bother with this indefinitely when, frankly, you can do just as well in game with a crafted weapon that's been melded. I do admire the enthusiasm of completionists (in the lack of a better word).

Definition of SE logic

1. Seemingly improving something by making questionable or otherwise illogical choices.

2. Procuring a tedious solution as to stop RMT, but crippling the player instead.

3. A paradox.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Firon

Hell even XI was grindy and even for a full ls of 45 people never had to kill Byakko 120+ times to get 45+ Byakko pants i mean this drop system makes no sense whats so ever.

---

You couldn't just walk to a cave and fight Byakko 50 times in a single day either.

Drop rates will reflect the difficulty over time to obtain the items. I'd rather the fights have longer lockouts do reflect a better drop rate but people feel they need to be able to smash their heads into a wall until they win and expect a prize right out the gate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

You couldn't just walk to a cave and fight Byakko 50 times in a single day either.

Drop rates will reflect the difficulty over time to obtain the items. I'd rather the fights have longer lockouts do reflect a better drop rate but people feel they need to be able to smash their heads into a wall until they win and expect a prize right out the gate.

---

People are not expecting a prize right out of the gate. People expect to have something to show after they have killed a boss 40 times other then grade 5 dark matter. Not exaggerating I know some one who had 40 wins and 2 totems.

This last weekend I ran him 6 times we got one cudgel and nothing else besides dark mater and vampire plants. This is with 8 people using lamps each time. Just to make you understand how bad that is that is a 2% drop rate we got or 1/48.

I still don't get why they don't allow the loot be able to be passed to another member if you got dupe, so much dupes seems to be going to waste ><

Does this mean after .22, totems required will be 1 and nuts required will be 5?... :/

They cut the number of totems and nuts in half needed for the fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vire

Not exaggerating I know some one who had 40 wins and 2 totems.

---

Those lucky bastards, I've fought him probably 200 times and have 2 totems and 1 weapon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Those lucky bastards, I've fought him probably 200 times and have 2 totems and 1 weapon.

---

37 fights, not one totem

/e also no weapon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ssppiikkeeyy

drop rate would still be better i think. i done ifrit 73 runs and got 1 totem no weapon drop the rate is beyond to low, this is nice if the totem would acully drop.

---

Look i know you all like to have all the weapons as possible in the less time as possible, but do you really want to dumb down content? Im actually happy that the dev team said that Darklight gear wont be easily drop, if you put effort in something you should have a reward for that, thats why i feel that this dumbs down a lot the rewards, yeah i dont have all he ifrit weapons yet but its been a long time that those weapons were released and are still the best.

If you make runs daily even if you're so unlucky you can get at least one totem, nut charm so if u need 10 well maybe in 10 days you can have enough items to trade a weapon and maybe another weapon droped in those 10 days, i think that people that are even saying that its unfair is the people who does 2-3 runs and then leaves it for a few days, i've done over 250 runs and i have 4/7 weapons even one i had to buy it because it had low drop rate, but im glad that i got it, i keep going there to get my axe i dont mind not having mage weapons.

Maybe in 2.0 they will add the greed/need system and im glad they wont dumb down drop rate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Those lucky bastards, I've fought him probably 200 times and have 2 totems and 1 weapon.

---

Now I know how bad the drops on those are.... must of been subligar power... 5 Ifrit runs first time I tried Ifrit - 1 weapon (cane) and 3 totems....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinheart

Now I know how bad the drops on those are.... must of been subligar power... 5 Ifrit runs first time I tried Ifrit - 1 weapon (cane) and 3 totems....

---

oh, I've got a ton of Ifrit canes. Whole lot of good that does me though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinheart

Now I know how bad the drops on those are.... must of been subligar power... 5 Ifrit runs first time I tried Ifrit - 1 weapon (cane) and 3 totems....

---

You can't take a sample size of one and then say the rest are just unlucky. You have to look over a large body of data really anything under 100 its to small a sample size to have a proper margin of error but with 50 kill you should have a pretty good idea what drop rates are actually like.

Killed him once and got 1 totem, omg 100% drop rate confirmed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vire

You can't take a sample size of one and then say the rest are just unlucky. You have to look over a large body of data really anything under 100 it to small a sample size to have a proper margin of error but with 50 kill you should have a pretty good idea what drop rates are actually like.

---

Yep I agree, it was just me and my wifes first time run we went to Ifrit and we both got weapon + totems while others didn't get anything and I didn't pay too much attention to the drop rates info on the forums so I thought that was normal then, kind of feel bad for others that was there... maybe should of passed the totem but then later wife and I talked about how it would of been better if wife or I passed the totems to each other to get other weapon we wanted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

Killed him once and got 1 totem, omg 100% drop rate confirmed.

---

LOL grats

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Can I have some of your DM? I'm starting to run low

---

lol yes u may i have 23 stacks of it atm lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hello everyone!

We looked into increasing the drop rate and allowing each party member to receive a inferno totem or kupo nut charm with each winning encounter, but instead of touching up on the drop rate, we decided to make adjustments to the number of required totems and nut charms.

In patch 1.22, the below changes are what we have planned:

• Inferno Totems: 10 → 5
• Kupo Nut Charms: 20 → 10

The reason we decided on this change is because if we changed the drop rate, there would still be unlucky players who would complain that they can't get an item, so we decided to not play with the drop rate and instead just change the amount of items required for exchange for a weapon.

---

Should have been

In patch 1.22, the below changes are what we have planned:

• Inferno Totems: 100% drop rate - Untradeable
• Kupo Nut Charms: 100% drop rate - Untradeable

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Answa

They said changing the drop rate, not adjusting it to 100%. Can't you understand that they're intentionally not changing it to 100% for a reason?

---

Well I suppose if that reason is to be asinine and awkward.

I don't know any modern MMO that requires you to kill something 100 times and not have something you want at least 1 of those times.

Yoshi-p may as well make an achivement named
LOL you suck - 100 primal kills and you still don't have a weapon. Lolololol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

Yoshi-p may as well make an achivement named
LOL you suck - 100 primal kills and you still don't have a weapon. Trolololol

---

Corrected that for you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hello everyone!

We looked into increasing the drop rate and allowing each party member to receive a inferno totem or kupo nut charm with each winning encounter, but instead of touching up on the drop rate, we decided to make adjustments to the number of required totems and nut charms.

In patch 1.22, the below changes are what we have planned:

• Inferno Totems: 10 → 5
• Kupo Nut Charms: 20 → 10

The reason we decided on this change is because if we changed the drop rate, there would still be unlucky players who would complain that they can't get an item, so we decided to not play with the drop rate and instead just change the amount of items required for exchange for a weapon.

---

Lame. Should increase totem drop rate and lower that especially since it is older content now. Though the item drop rate itself should stay the same. After a good 50 runs I have only got 3 totems, and another 50+ prior to when totems dropped. Just saying.

Glad i saved all my nuts!

Please give totems/nuts instead of dark matter thanks :) If you're worried about people not going to Ifrit after they have all of their weapons (though who would want to?) then make the No-Lamp chest drop materia, high level potions, and maybe a chance at HQ crafted equipment. Or items you can turn in for GC seals or something.

Also even if the drop rate goes to 100% the kupo nut amount required should match the inferno totem amount required. No reason for them to be more expensive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hello everyone!

We looked into increasing the drop rate and allowing each party member to receive a inferno totem or kupo nut charm with each winning encounter, but instead of touching up on the drop rate, we decided to make adjustments to the number of required totems and nut charms.

In patch 1.22, the below changes are what we have planned:

• Inferno Totems: 10 → 5
• Kupo Nut Charms: 20 → 10

The reason we decided on this change is because if we changed the drop rate, there would still be unlucky players who would complain that they can't get an item, so we decided to not play with the drop rate and instead just change the amount of items required for exchange for a weapon.

---

I'm really sorry you have decided to make this change. And I fear that you are going to request 20 Items for Garuda. The point is that people don't fight Moogle or Ifrit just for the RIDICOLOUS drop system. Users give you a lot of feedback about, but you are still not hearing...

EDIT:
"The reason we decided on this change is because if we changed the drop rate, there would still be unlucky players who would complain that they can't get an item" I need an explanation of this statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

Please give totems/nuts instead of dark matter thanks :) If you're worried about people not going to Ifrit after they have all of their weapons (though who would want to?)

---

^ Problem with MMORPG gamers today, you're right who would want to help others? That would be silly in a community based online game.

Quote:

---

No-Lamp chest drop materia, high level potions, and maybe a chance at HQ crafted equipment. Or items you can turn in for GC seals or somethin

---

If there becomes too many sources for HQ gear outside of crafting or even high level materia (guild marks will run out) you kind of negate the reason to make it as it'll become largely common place and not worth making or selling anymore. This is how you ruin markets in MMOs.

Quote:

---

Also even if the drop rate goes to 100% the kupo nut amount required should match the inferno totem amount required. No reason for them to be more expensive.

---

If it becomes 100% you would need a lot more for balance. It wouldn't make sense to need say 4 Nuts for your weapon @ 100% drop rate, since it's 100% drop you should be perfectly fine with it costing 10+ because you'll get one every battle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enma

I'm really sorry you have decided to make this change. And I fear that you are going to request 20 Items for Garuda. The point is that people don't fight Moogle or Ifrit just for the RIDICOLOUS drop system. Users give you a lot of feedback about, but you are still not hearing...

---

That is a lie, i see ifrit shout everyday. Drops are perfecly right, why people want to get a weapon or totem per fight? It's just ridiculous and easy. More at this time that there aren't a lot of things to do in game...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

Also even if the drop rate goes to 100% the kupo nut amount required should match the inferno totem amount required. No reason for them to be more expensive.

---

I agree with this especially considering the Moogle weapons are mostly inferior to the Ifrit ones.

Oh and please please please make the CNJ/WHM weapons having healing stats this time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Godking

I could care less about the horrible drop rate. I'm sure others will agree with me when I say just change it so it goes in the loot bag. That's all it needs.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Treach

Being able to give your 15th ifrits bow to the archers/bards who are 0/150 would solve alot of things imo.

---

This. Problem solved.

But I am honestly surprised that the Primals drop weapons at all. I would have thought that with Yoshida wanting to keep crafters relevant that they would have had a hand in crafting the Primal Weapons.

I would have liked to have seen Ifrit drop horn fragments that could be crafted into whichever of the 7 weapons you choose, or something to that effect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vax

That is a lie, i see ifrit shout everyday. Drops are perfecly right, why people want to get a weapon or totem per fight? It's just ridiculous and easy. More at this time that there aren't a lot of things to do in game...

---

Maybe on your server... I don't want to appear arrogant but beating Ifrit 1 time or 100 times it's the same (And come on guys, who now can't clear Ifrit battle?!). It's not harder but more annoying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vax

That is a lie, i see ifrit shout everyday. Drops are perfecly right, why people want to get a weapon or totem per fight? It's just ridiculous and easy. More at this time that there aren't a lot of things to do in game...

---

How many fights did you do? Just to know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enma

I'm really sorry you have decided to make this change. And I fear that you are going to request 20 Items for Garuda. The point is that people don't fight Moogle or Ifrit just for the RIDICOLOUS drop system. Users give you a lot of feedback about, but you are still not hearing...

EDIT:
"The reason we decided on this change is because if we changed the drop rate, there would still be unlucky players who would complain that they can't get an item" I need an explanation of this statement.

---

Theres really nothing to explain. Even if they change the drop rate there is a chance that you do 50 runs and still get nothing which will result in unlucky players QQing. Not hard to understand that statement.

They lowered the requirements so half of what was needed before so thats good enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hello everyone!

We looked into increasing the drop rate and allowing each party member to receive a inferno totem or kupo nut charm with each winning encounter, but instead of touching up on the drop rate, we decided to make adjustments to the number of required totems and nut charms.

In patch 1.22, the below changes are what we have planned:

• Inferno Totems: 10 → 5
• Kupo Nut Charms: 20 → 10

The reason we decided on this change is because if we changed the drop rate, there would still be unlucky players who would complain that they can't get an item, so we decided to not play with the drop rate and instead just change the amount of items required for exchange for a weapon.

---

While I do appreciate the amount being lessened, I don't understand how every member getting a totem per win can allow more bad luck than continuing to make totems and weapons randomly drop to whoever... how is it bad luck if I beat Ifrit 10x, get 10 totems, and pick my weapon? VS beating Ifrit 10x and getting dark matter every time while the other guy did the same 10x and got 3 weapons in a row or something.

I really do appreciate all the good SE is doing but I think you guys are still lost about just how BAD random number generators are and how they strangle your game in every way possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elreed

Look i know you all like to have all the weapons as possible in the less time as possible, but do you really want to dumb down content? Im actually happy that the dev team said that Darklight gear wont be easily drop, if you put effort in something you should have a reward for that, thats why i feel that this dumbs down a lot the rewards, yeah i dont have all he ifrit weapons yet but its been a long time that those weapons were released and are still the best.

If you make runs daily even if you're so unlucky you can get at least one totem, nut charm so if u need 10 well maybe in 10 days you can have enough items to trade a weapon and maybe another weapon droped in those 10 days, i think that people that are even saying that its unfair is the people who does 2-3 runs and then leaves it for a few days, i've done over 250 runs and i have 4/7 weapons even one i had to buy it because it had low drop rate, but im glad that i got it, i keep going there to get my axe i dont mind not having mage weapons.

Maybe in 2.0 they will add the greed/need system and im glad they wont dumb down drop rate

---

You can't dumb down what's already retarded. How can you claim repeating the same fight 500 times is challenging. I can do Ifrit on god damn autopilot by now. Again, a challenging fight is challenging, the same fight 500 times isn't challenging it's tedious.

As for working for drops sure that's fine but can we have visible progress with each run please, not just hoping pigs suddenly grow wings and fly when we check the chest?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thanos

Theres really nothing to explain. Even if they change the drop rate there is a chance that you do 50 runs and still get nothing which will result in unlucky players QQing. Not hard to understand that statement.

They lowered the requirements so half of what was needed before so thats good enough.

---

I don't know what is so hard to understand about this. They decided that giving a 100% drop rate on totems would make unlucky players complain. You can not be unlucky if you get something every time. If you can beat ifrit 10 times you can beat him 20 or 30 or 50 or 200 its not hard after you figure him out its not some great achievement. People stop running ifrit because they are so sick of the fight after 80 times and they finaly get the 2 weapons they want and generally don't go back. That is your problem not the drop rate. Make a reason for people who have there weapons to go back its really simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thanos

Theres really nothing to explain. Even if they change the drop rate there is a chance that you do 50 runs and still get nothing which will result in unlucky players QQing. Not hard to understand that statement.

They lowered the requirements so half of what was needed before so thats good enough.

---

Thank you for your explanation. Now I can say that is a wrong argument. Increasing drop rate is not the only solution they have. If so many people complain about it, there is a reason...

I just stopped doing them ^^:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hello everyone!

We looked into increasing the drop rate and allowing each party member to receive a inferno totem or kupo nut charm with each winning encounter, but instead of touching up on the drop rate, we decided to make adjustments to the number of required totems and nut charms.

In patch 1.22, the below changes are what we have planned:

• Inferno Totems: 10 → 5
• Kupo Nut Charms: 20 → 10

The reason we decided on this change is because if we changed the drop rate, there would still be unlucky players who would complain that they can't get an item, so we decided to not play with the drop rate and instead just change the amount of items required for exchange for a weapon.

---

While lowering the amount tokens it takes to get weapons sounds good it is not Took me over 80 runs to get 10 tokens.

I would like to see the following change. 100% drop on totem/nut (untradeable) and make them 15 or 10 tokens per weapon.

At the same time you cant have 100% drop rate on anything though.

To me nothing in a MMO should come easy. You gotta work for it regardless if its a repetitive fight or some long stupid quest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CamAlch

This. Problem solved.

But I am honestly surprised that the Primals drop weapons at all. I would have thought that with Yoshida wanting to keep crafters relevant that they would have had a hand in crafting the Primal Weapons.

I would have liked to have seen Ifrit drop horn fragments that could be crafted into whichever of the 7 weapons you choose, or something to that effect.

---

Yes x1000

I'd be happy with any of the following:

A) Allow Primal weapons to drop to loot lists so ppl aren't throwing multiples away while others are going at 0:150 (easy fix)

-or-

B) Kill all weapon drops and increase Totem/Nut drop rate to guaranteed 2+ per run (also easy to do)

-or-

C) Kill all totem/nut/weapon drops and have primals drop U/U crafting materials that can be forged into weapons (difficult to do pre 2.0, because no system in place for crafting U/U items)

The 50% price drop is nice, but I would much prefer one of the above options.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chinook

Why not push this into a 1.21b patch since you already announced it ?

I see nerd rage incoming for people who recently exchanged totems/nuts or from the people who don't read the forums and wil exchange them in the next few weeks.

It takes a lot of fights (and/or good friends) to gather 10 totems / 20 nuts, anyone who's been collecting them for more than one weapon is stuck waiting until 1.22 (unless they like to see their time wasted).

---

They're going to keep doing this every time a new Primal is released, that's the trend. When Moogle was released, Ifrit needed 10. Now that Garuda will be released, Moogle is going down to 10 and Ifrit is going down to 5. I'm assuming 5 will likely be the lowest, and more will hit 5 needed as more Primals are released.

ya this is still crap, should be original number but 100% drop on totem or nut

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thanos

At the same time you cant have 100% drop rate on anything though.

To me nothing in a MMO should come easy. You gotta work for it regardless if its a repetitive fight or some long stupid quest.

---

Even XI had plenty of mobs who drops stuff 100% of the time spew that bs plenty of mmos have 100% drop rates on stuff no one is asking for free hand outs. I'm sure almost everyone in this thread is willing to kill ifrit 20 times if they knew on the 20th kill they was gonna get a weapon.