Well the issue with Thancred side of things is that he still had 5 years with Ryne by the time the story began for WoL.
The others only been in the First for 3 year or less. Lack of understanding Thancred's change of heart and acceptance of Ryne can be more contributed to the fact we did not get much detail of those 5 years nor get to see how it proceeded since he grew to accept Ryne as a family member and as a another person during that moment but never got a chance to say what he wanted to say due to it developing into being more of a personal struggle that there may not be a way to save them both. This is one part of the story that I felt should have been included but they cut it down to those small moments in Shadowbringer and hide it until the very end when Ryne and Minfillia had to make a choice for REASONS.
They could have included moments in Shadowbringer where WoL had a chance to talk to Ryne or Thancred once in a while through the course of 5.0 MSQ during their breaks and get Echo visions to see how Thancred and Ryne developed through the process of the 5 years so players can see how Thancred started out as someone who only say Ryne as another Minfillia or her replacement into being a daughter figure and another person he valued as a family.
[SPOILERS]Considering that new Minfilia feature.
Printable View
-
10-14-2019, 12:22 AMEdwinLi
-
10-14-2019, 12:57 AMAlleluia
I thought Urianger and Y'shtola had been on the First for 3 years?
-
10-14-2019, 01:02 AMEdwinLiSorry forgot about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleluia
-
10-14-2019, 01:03 AMAlleluiaNp. Just glad I didn't hallucinate that detail. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by EdwinLi
-
10-14-2019, 02:28 AMLemuel81I never liked thancred much till shadowbringers, I felt his character development was nice as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorimachi87
-
10-14-2019, 10:25 PMAntoine_LenheimGuess not only Minfilia suffered from neglection of "show, dont tell" policy x) I seriously doubt thought that he will get even a portion of hate that Minfilia got for the same reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwinLi
-
11-12-2019, 11:00 PMAntoine_Lenheim
Just started doing new 5.1 MSQ line and how happy I am! Was mentioned at the start that ryne and Thancred are still minding their business at Empty so they wont joining us! Finally I can do msq (or at least a part of it) without skipping and cringing! /yay motion
-
11-12-2019, 11:57 PMKalinOrthos
Okay. Dude? You have some serious issues if you're this obsessive about a character. Skipping cutscenes because they prominently feature a character you don't like? Making up romances that had been thoroughly debunked by the story itself? The last post you just made? For someone who claims to like the story, you happily admit to skipping integral parts of it when it suits your warped biases.
Minfilia is dead and gone. Her essence has been given to Ryne, who is attempting to restore her world. Don't like it? Unsub.
I think the most telling aspect about you as a person is that you empathize with Emet-Selch. Not sympathize, as most of us do, but empathize. Emet is a great example of a sympathetic villain, as his motive is a very real feeling that most of us have, that longing for a time long past. Yet, the best way to describe Emet as a narrative device is: "Cool motive; still murder." He and his kin have orchestrated the wanton slaughter of millions, if not billions, of lives, in pursuit of a long-gone past that recklessly used magicks to create their own destruction only to be saved by by the intervention of a god they also created who would only do something if it could Thanos-snap half the population out of existence. Regardless of the motives, both the society in which he lived and the means he pursued to get back to that society are so heavily flawed that it would be impossible to justify their reappearance. Yet you empathize with him because, like him, you single-mindedly want a thing, regardless of the logic to the contrary, and will shut out any other arguments. Your arguments in this thread have been nothing but bad faith justifications of "NO BUT I WANT HER BACK THO" or "GOD I HATE RYNE" for no other reason than your own personal feelings. You've taken literally nothing from the story, have done no contemplation towards the subtext and narratives of the expansion, almost as if you don't understand what subtext and narrative actually are.
Pardon if I sound harsh, but having gone through the beginning to the end of this thread and looking through your posts, it's abundantly clear you have no intention of having a "discussion", you're just looking for an outlet to express how much you hate Ryne and how much you love your precious OTP Minfilia xAntoineThancred. -
11-13-2019, 12:55 AMAntoine_LenheimI guess if it really was the outlet for me to express my hatred towards ryne and how much I want Minfilia back, this thread wouldnt reach 13 pages and people would stop discussing and answering to my posts by page 2. But it was a discussion, sometimes a very heated one. Yes, it was a biased discussion because as you can see with this thread, nobody but Riastrad felt like me and everybody who answered and was in discussion been telling me how good for plot and for its "between the lines" plot intoduction of ryne is and how strange I am for liking Minfilia because she was quite frankly, for them, a bad character, So yeah, my posts mainly consists of defending and justifying, maybe I wasnt prepared for the amount of hate and arguments that people will cover me with.Quote:
Originally Posted by KalinOrthos
Though, have to tell you that if the only thing that you noticed in my arguments was "NO BUT I WANT HER BACK THO" or "GOD I HATE RYNE"... then you werent been paying attention to "subtext" at all x) Subtext of my arguments is how bad for plot and poor that idea to include ryne was and how it doesnt tie with the character of Thancred but yeah, thoroughly seasoned with my personal feelings.
And I already answered in my previous posts why Im getting so attached to characters. I can even give you a link to that post, though Im fairly sure you've read it already, since you went through the beginning to the end like you said :3 -
11-13-2019, 01:07 AMKalinOrthosIt's 13 pages of people dunking on you and you continuing to show that you have no grasp on the story, you just want the cute girl back in the story. People have repeatedly, over and over, time and time again, in elaborate detail, showed you why Minfilia was such a poorly done character, how her appearance in HW and in ShB ultimately develops her into something far more than the nothing she was before in ARR, and why her story wraps up in a satisfying way that develops not only her character but that of Thancred as well and passes the torch to a new character who can become something great. Instead, you willfully ignore ALL of this, every single time, in favor of just how much your desire has clouded your judgement, present contradictions that only further show your bias (you say you like story, then admit you skip integral cutscenes because "i dun like da girl"), and continue to present this delusional outlook on the game that runs directly contrary to the themes that are central to the narrative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoine_Lenheim
Case in point. If you genuinely think that she doesn't tie in with Thancred at all? You're insane. Or you, again, have no idea what subtext actually is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoine_Lenheim
-
11-13-2019, 05:10 AMQT_Melon
This thread is still going? It's already another patch!
The story is not going to be rewritten, it's far too late. -
11-13-2019, 08:06 PMAntoine_LenheimI did the very same, repeatedly, over and over, in elaborate detail, explained, why Minfilia wasnt a poorly done character, that she did a lot for the story to progress, for our character to progress and for other characters ( Scions) to progress. That she wasnt useless like people kept claiming, she only suffered because of neglection of "show, dont tell" policy and that she was locked behind two loading screens. Someone also brought up her outfit, yeah. Im not going to repeat again what I said multiple times tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by KalinOrthos
And her story wraps her up in a satisfying way just for those who hated Minfilia, now she actually have purpose in their eyes. Yep, in their eyes she was useless and poorly done, she did nothing for a story besides being an annoying quest giver and an eye-candy. And after they locked her away for good, shutting down all possible options for her to redeem herself because they realized that shes an unwanted character and to actually fix her they would need to rewrite the story which is effort. So the most easier solution is to bring out her out of the story. And now yes, they finally gave a purpose, yay! She will commit an "uLtImAtE sAcRiFiCe, woooah" and will pass her powers to a new, lovely and cute character, admittedly redeeming herself. A perfect finale for a flawed character!.. But is it? Is it for those who actually liked this character and wanted people to remember her as something more than just another NPC who sacrificed herself in the name of the plot?
And yeah, I said that I liked the plot because I did big times up until that outcome in Amh Araeng. I loved that emotional battle that Thancred had to withstand, I loved story behind Ascians, Vauthry and Exarch, I loved the setting. It just so happened that I had high hopes that Miniflia would make a comeback and when she did not, that influenced my value judgment too much, I couldnt enjoy storyline anymore and just skipped through it. I didnt skip through Amaurot though and I absolutely enjoyed going through Tempest, fighting Hades and all that. Its a very nice expansion which has amazing storyline, just when your favourite character dying in it, especially when its dying for no particular reason except being a plot crutch, you will be disappointed.
Its just my opinion. I do think that she was a bad inclusion because it just screams plot device, just like Minfilia in HW. They had to somehow get rid of a character they didnt know what to do with and its been there, locked away behind "Im a vessel of Hydaelyn" thing for two expansions alredy. They couldn't keep pretending that nothing happened and continue keeping her there so they decided to take her down for good. It was just a lucky state of things that Minfilia's eventual demise tying well with core themes of the expansion: impermanence, death and rebirth, memory and legacy, nothing lasts forever, one cannot return to the past, and has to let new life grow in its place etc etc. Yet they continue to bring Yshtola back from the dead second time for unknown reason. Maybe shes "too valuable" for the plot, that is x)Quote:
Originally Posted by KalinOrthos
And about Thancred, their chemistry and relationships up until his eventual decision was cool and well-written, like I mentioned. Its his sudden acceptance what bugs me. I do think that it was out of tune, not because love for Minfilia clouded my judgement but because I think it was a plot crutch cuz they didnt want Thancred look like a complete asshole. It was shown through half of the expansion how cold he is towards ryne and a cutscene before he was still cold then cutscene later hes in acceptance and acting like her loving father. I wrote a lenghty post about it a page later, you can acquaintance yourself with it if you want.
Also, like someone mentioned before, relationships between Thancred and ryne lacks that "show, dont tell policy". The very same thing that eventually ruined Minfilia as a character in the eyes of haters. They didnt show how their relationship progressed through years, you could only assume that Thancred was acting like a father to her. What we did see is how bitter and cold he is towards ryne and how bad he want his Minfilia to come back, which was showed in that flashback. What other conclusions can you draw from what you see? Yeah, you can assume that their relationships were warm, that Thancred were like a father to ryne, that she saved her countless times because he wanted her to make her own decision about her destiny. Yeah, thats all possible. Yet when it was a thing with Minfilia, nobody were reading between the lines and assuming that shes doing all the hard work and researches off-scene, everybody continued labeling her as useless. Thats why I think its only fair to pull the same standards onto Thancred, we didnt see how their relationship progresses, we only see bitterness and coldness. Inference: he hates ryne or at least doesnt like her too much. Rest you can debate all you want about.
I only judge from my feelings and emotions that I get from the plot and the reason why I think what I think is not because Im insane or I dont know what subtext is, believe me, I do. I think like this because of how everything was presented to us, from how ryne is clearly a plot device and how Thancred eventual decision was stretched and out of tune.