New Instanced Raids (03/07/2012)

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I don't know, I think SE can find a happy medium between timed and untimed content. I mean look at Shosphea... it's a great dungeon and has no time limit. You have a puzzle (ish) you have to solve to release the boss.

I mean I don't hate time limits, but a lot of times it becomes a nuisance -_-

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I aren't saying untimed content has no place, but the general consensus is nothing should ever be timed on these forums.

I am just trying to say a well designed dungeon forces people to use stratagy, especially how instances in FFXIV work with your return sending you to the start, it just makes everything easy mode with no time limits.

The only way to add any stratagy with no time limits is setting return to your HP in instances rather than the start then it would mean you need stratagy, but it would be 1000x worse than time limits because one wipe and your out.

while new mob models are nice. do you really need them to have a good time? really?

take FFXI bcnms for example, they seldom used new models but the hell if they weren't fun.

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Originally Posted by Laf

So,

a) 1 unique mob
b) all other mobs are copy pasted
c) whole dungeon is copy pasted

some enormous efforts over here

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Really? Are we really going to complain about graphics? Creating a dungeon is difficult enough. Creating mobs and AI for them is very labor intensive. Balancing it all with the new job system...releasing all the new crafting items. I'm surprised they even added Chimera. I was expecting them hold that till 2.0.

I don't expect even 1 new graphical asset in the dungeon...we got at least one...

We see barely 3 minutes of dungeon footage and people are going to make full assumptions. You know what they say when you assume?

If I threw any of you complainers into the coding and design room I wonder what I would get in a month ... no wait a years time. You might actually spend 6 months just to draw 1 3D image.

YES THE WHITE KNIGHT HAS ARRIVED better then being a TROLL!

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Originally Posted by Shiggysonson

I agree. Keep the time limits!

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I agree. If they don't have time limits people would have too much time to find exploits i think. They always give enough time to do the content so i don't see what the issue is. Oh, and keep slappin that bass mon.

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Originally Posted by Agoven

Cough...cough Strongholds...cough...cough.

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achoo..achoo THATS NOT A STRONGHOLD achoo... achoo

I think people just dont realize that most of the dungeons implemented for now will be things that were already in game, just unfinished.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

It depends how the dungeons are made, look at FFXI and dynamis, limbus, einherjar and nyzul.

Dynamis and limbus you had plenty of time to kill the bosses and farm in the time you had as long as you knew how to pull them, alot of stratagy was needed, Einherjar and nyzul, time was very tight and you had to keep up dps to get through in the time limit, and with the hard pulls and some objectives you had to know exactly what you are doing.

If you take the time limits away you can just charge through not care how you pull because as long as you kill one mob before a wipe on every pull (extreme example) you can still get through and win, whereas with a time limit you need to pull carefully knowing that every wipe costs valuble time.

About the first couple of tries at DH and primals being losses because you timed out, thats the key, you have to know how to do them in time its all about stratagy, we found out how to do DH and primals and we rarely time out on em now, while DH wasnt what we wanted it was the stratagy that worked.

But we atleast agree on one thing QUIT CLASS STACKING!!!

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I completely agree with this. Whether it's one hour, 3 hours, or even 30 min I think time limits are needed in order to provide an environment to encourage some sort of strategy. Whether the strategy is to kill/clear certain areas first, work at time extenders or clear hurdles that are meant to make a boss fight actually "fightable" (e.g., clearing area X makes boss actually damageable to magic dmg, etc. etc.), or maybe even something as plain and boring as "Don't die, or we won't clear it in time". Something, anything, that involves a plan of action other than then LOL-AOE-XP-PT-YAY-LOOKATME that we currently have.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

If they don't have time limits people would have too much time to find exploits i think. They always give enough time to do the content so i don't see what the issue is. Oh, and keep slappin that bass mon.

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??? I wasn't being sarcastic.

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Originally Posted by Shiggysonson

??? I wasn't being sarcastic.

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I know, I was agreeing with you, lol. I edited my other post to show I agree:)

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Originally Posted by Agoven

Really? Are we really going to complain about graphics? Creating a dungeon is difficult enough. Creating mobs and AI for them is very labor intensive. Balancing it all with the new job system...releasing all the new crafting items. I'm surprised they even added Chimera. I was expecting them hold that till 2.0.

I don't expect even 1 new graphical asset in the dungeon...we got at least one...

We see barely 3 minutes of dungeon footage and people are going to make full assumptions. You know what they say when you assume?

If I threw any of you complainers into the coding and design room I wonder what I would get in a month ... no wait a years time. You might actually spend 6 months just to draw 1 3D image.

YES THE WHITE KNIGHT HAS ARRIVED better then being a TROLL!

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I like your logic. As paying customers no one should complain. We should accept every last morsel of this mediocrity and accept it warmly as if it were amazing. Shame on them for expecting more!

This patch could be awesome, I am not saying anything negative about it. However, I think some of us are dissapointed in the lack of what "seems" to be coming out. They key word being "seems". Not everything is included in the notes, and there could be so much cool shit that we just wont know what to do first. I hope so! I think the job system, combined with classes seem overly convoluted. 2 new time rush dungeons. Recipes, my mind is blown.

Ultimately when it boils down, anyone who wants to complain, will do just that. Also we will always have to deal with white knights who worship something so mediocre. We coexist. Know that not all of us are trying to pick e-fights, we are just simply stating our opinions. We are more than happy to listen to yours.

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Originally Posted by Agoven

Really? Are we really going to complain about graphics? Creating a dungeon is difficult enough. Creating mobs and AI for them is very labor intensive. Balancing it all with the new job system...releasing all the new crafting items. I'm surprised they even added Chimera. I was expecting them hold that till 2.0.

I don't expect even 1 new graphical asset in the dungeon...we got at least one...

We see barely 3 minutes of dungeon footage and people are going to make full assumptions. You know what they say when you assume?

If I threw any of you complainers into the coding and design room I wonder what I would get in a month ... no wait a years time. You might actually spend 6 months just to draw 1 3D image.

YES THE WHITE KNIGHT HAS ARRIVED better then being a TROLL!

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Being sensible and respectable to a labor intensive effort is not being a "White Knight." Bravo for you pointing it out.

To Laf: I had to point this out to my 12 year old son the other day, (you are probably less mature) the "original" FFXIV was a product that took five years to get to us and it had very little content. In less than a year, in months these people have programmed and coded some amazing new content. Lighten up, douche

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

I like your logic. As paying customers no one should complain. We should accept every last morsel of this mediocrity and accept it warmly as if it were amazing. Shame on them for expecting more!

This patch could be awesome, I am not saying anything negative about it. However, I think some of us are dissapointed in the lack of what "seems" to be coming out. I think the job system, combined with classes are seemingly overly convoluted. 2 new time rush dungeons. Recipes.

Ultimately when it boils down, anyone who wants to complain, will do just that. Also we will always have to deal with white knights who worship something so mediocre. We coexist.

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There are proper ways to complain and constructive criticism. WE KNOW 2.0 has the new graphics...we know up till 2.0 that NEW CONTENT is surrounding mainly the umbral storyline...why would they put new assets in a graphical system they moving off of? It'll take that much more time to convert to the new system.

We know that many of the patches thus have been system overhaul intensive. You have to balance those systems and design before you add content. Content is not difficult but labor intensive. Battle systems change the entire way you play that content.

So everyone should be focusing in on how is the battle system changing...and how does the game play. The content will come we know it's coming...2.0!!! FTW!!!!

As a paying customer I complain with my checkbook. I don't like it, I don't pay for it...you paying means there's something keeping you from leaving something you like perhaps?

Plainly stating that they put no effort in something is ludicrous. Especially when one has seen a lil video and not played it at all...and when you play it you may not like it...others might.

That was my point...plain and simple. If you want to make blanket statements by all means...but when you make them in an asinine way I'm going to comment about it.

I'm in no way defending SE. I'm defending developers and designers in general...if you gonna bleep such a statement at least analyze it and give constructive feedback.

It was most likely a troll post.

They should know we're getting more content than just two dungeons.

The quick sand seems like it will add a real unique touch compared to other content. I cant wait to see how it works.

A Copperbell mine revamp, I see..

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Originally Posted by Alise

A Copperbell mine revamp, I see..

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That whole underground dunes area with tons of tunnels and entrances we haven't been able to enter guess that's this raid he heee...Now all the quicksand holes around Thanalan make sense.

I guess in a way Chimera fits...but I have always reckoned Chimeras to be in dark forests. I guess they are related to Manticores...which is what I would have expected as the main beast...but this works.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind time limits, IF the content is correctly designed around them. You had to clear Darkhold within 30 minutes to get the best possible treasure? It just doesn't seem possible to clear every trash group directly in your way in that time frame.

If the mob placement in the new dungeons will keep in line with the time allotted I have no problem. I fully expect to run out of time at least one attempt to get a feel for the dungeon. But if they put in objectives that rely on clearing the dungeon at a rapid pace and you have to train through packs of mobs to achieve it, let alone clearing it, that I feel is poor design.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind time limits, IF the content is correctly designed around them. You had to clear Darkhold within 30 minutes to get the best possible treasure? It just doesn't seem possible to clear every trash group directly in your way in that time frame.

If the mob placement in the new dungeons will keep in line with the time allotted I have no problem. I fully expect to run out of time at least one attempt to get a feel for the dungeon. But if they put in objectives that rely on clearing the dungeon at a rapid pace and you have to train through packs of mobs to achieve it, let alone clearing it, that I feel is poor design.

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Well Darkhold isn't so bad...they designed it with multiple ways to play and multiple outcomes. Some people only like doing things 1x some like to do them 100x. This is just a conflict in play styles and what people ultimately run a raid for.

Do you run an instance to play together? for treasure? for fun? for serious? for story....etc etc.

Hi All,

Very cool video of the first new Raid! :)

The new Chimera Boss looks *amazing*! :)

That type of quality (the model, details, texture, and great animation) is hopefully just a preview of the level of quality we'll be getting much more of in 2.0! :)

And the fact we're getting Chimera now is pretty awesome.

We can always hope that Chimera is only the Sub-Boss (like how they only showed off Ogre when Dzemael Darkhold Video came out), and that there's another Boss after it (which would be amazing).

But even if it isn't, we'll also be getting a 2nd Raid Dungeon with this patch as well.

Even though it's a "recycled" looking dungeon (Sand / Desert / Brown / Mines-like), I don't mind if the layout and encounters and overall experience is fun and engaging.

Right now, even with the Sand / Desert of Thanalan, we really don't spend much time in them any more. And we know that we'll be getting completely new Levels / Areas with 2.0 (that show great promise). :)

I just hope that we get some new Music with the 2 new Dungeons (but I loved the Batraal Boss Fight music regardless, so I don't mind hearing it again). ;)

Did anyone else notice the NPC Archer with the "Dragon Scale-like Bow" @ 2:14? At first I thought it was the Bard/Archer New Weapon, but I think it's just the one we've seen in previous Storylines with that Archer (it still looks cool). :)

Can't wait for the new patch! :)

Kiara needs moar :)

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...08fdc1e873.JPG

Can anyone translate this?

French community rep has put the emphasis on party members being split in his comment.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

If you take the time limits away you can just charge through not care how you pull because as long as you kill one mob before a wipe on every pull (extreme example) you can still get through and win, whereas with a time limit you need to pull carefully knowing that every wipe costs valuble time.

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So what let people do the content the way they want to, surely its better if people are having fun.

Are you really saying that there is more strategy in training a whole dungeon of trash mob than killing it all.

I would rather see the boss monsters spawn after an area is cleared of trash, kind of like how the Coeurl does in Shposhae.

I know that is an open world dungeon but its a lot more fun than any of the others if you are the appropriate level.

Rushing people through an instance is not the right idea.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

So what let people do the content the way they want to, surely its better if people are having fun.

Are you really saying that there is more strategy in training a whole dungeon of trash mob than killing it all.

I would rather see the boss monsters spawn after an area is cleared of trash, kind of like how the Coeurl does in Shposhae.

I know that is an open world dungeon but its a lot more fun than any of the others if you are the appropriate level.

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It urks me to agree with you. Do not manifest a situation where it happens again.

IT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

It urks me to agree with you. Do not manifest a situation where it happens again.

IT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

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Awwww /comfort

The monk skill looks awesome no more runing to get to the mobs

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Originally Posted by Jinko

So what let people do the content the way they want to, surely its better if people are having fun.

Are you really saying that there is more strategy in training a whole dungeon of trash mob than killing it all.

I would rather see the boss monsters spawn after an area is cleared of trash, kind of like how the Coeurl does in Shposhae.

I know that is an open world dungeon but its a lot more fun than any of the others if you are the appropriate level.

Rushing people through an instance is not the right idea.

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Agreed. They could just make it have force conditions. Like have to kill such and such mob to progress or like most other raids I've done you have to kill mobs in a path (can't train it no matter what or else wipe/fail and have to restart)

Same sand cave we have had since beta... more of the same ants... same teleport design from darkhold and same music... Chimera was the only thing cool here. /yawn

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Originally Posted by Chinook

French community rep has put the emphasis on party members being split in his comment.

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I find this interesting.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

Agreed. They could just make it have force conditions. Like have to kill such and such mob to progress or like most other raids I've done you have to kill mobs in a path (can't train it no matter what or else wipe/fail and have to restart)

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Im sure they will have this kind of content again in the future, this however is not one of them. We don't even know what the other dungeon is, although it is prob timed as well. My point is, there is no point in saying it should have been this or it could have been that. It is what it is and theres always next time.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Are you really saying that there is more strategy in training a whole dungeon of trash mob than killing it all.

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Rushing people through an instance is not the right idea.

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That's not really what I understood from his post, but maybe I misunderstood - perhaps he could clarify for both of us.

Assuming that's not what he meant, though, if these new dungeons are meant to be played like DH was (i.e., "speed runs" by running past 90% of the mobs just to make it to a mob that's just standing there - well, after you stand on the light anyway) I'd be pretty disappointed myself. However, based on the feedback/comments Yoshida and the devs provided when they learned groups were doing that, I'd be very surprised if these new dungeons will operate the same.

Of course!..... of course... NONE of us will know for sure until tomorrow evening (at the earliest)... that is, of course, if there isn't any long-winded pre-req. stuff to do before hand in order to get access.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Well the white knights need something to defend against huh ?

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I don't recall there being anything wrong from have a positive opinion of something in this game. Or perhaps looking at something that one finds negative differently.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

So what let people do the content the way they want to, surely its better if people are having fun.

Are you really saying that there is more strategy in training a whole dungeon of trash mob than killing it all.

I would rather see the boss monsters spawn after an area is cleared of trash, kind of like how the Coeurl does in Shposhae.

I know that is an open world dungeon but its a lot more fun than any of the others if you are the appropriate level.

Rushing people through an instance is not the right idea.

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The time limit in DH wasn't the only reason people trained through the mobs. It was the easiest and fastest way to do it because the mobs gave up/despawned so easily. You can have a timer on a dungeon and still require trash to be cleared.

I agree coeurl in Shposhae was pretty cool.... the first time. It wasn't really fun to do over and over. Time limits adds a flavor of intensity that keeps the same content interesting every time imo.

A time limit in a dungeon doesn't mean you have to rush through it. It just means you have to use time efficiently and effectively to clear it. Sure you can have content that lets players play the way they want to, but then you get people that play carelessly because the consequences aren't so bad. (Like people who don't kill boneknitters first in Natalan for some reason -_-)

1 PLD, 1 BRD, 2 WHM, 4 BLM Freeze Burn Chimera down.... next!

For those saying "take away the time limits", just think about this: If time limits are gone and the areas stay instanced, parties will just clog up those instances and prevent ppl from experiencing the content.

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Originally Posted by Bittereye

1 PLD, 1 BRD, 2 WHM, 4 BLM Freeze Burn Chimera down.... next!

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Will you even be able to make it to the end with that combo...being that your party is going to be split up throughout the instance...

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I don't recall there being anything wrong from have a positive opinion of something in this game. Or perhaps looking at something that one finds negative differently.

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Difference of opinion marks you as a troll or white Knight these days. Most people don't even know the meaning of the words. It's just something cool they heard "that guy" say, you know?

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Originally Posted by Agoven

Will you even be able to make it to the end with that combo...being that your party is going to be split up throughout the instance...

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Switch jobs at fight... problem solved.

I'll be "that guy". DRG will be LeeT DD!

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Originally Posted by Shiggysonson

The time limit in DH wasn't the only reason people trained through the mobs. It was the easiest and fastest way to do it because the mobs gave up/despawned so easily. You can have a timer on a dungeon and still require trash to be cleared.

I agree coeurl in Shposhae was pretty cool.... the first time. It wasn't really fun to do over and over. Time limits adds a flavor of intensity that keeps the same content interesting every time imo.

A time limit in a dungeon doesn't mean you have to rush through it. It just means you have to use time efficiently and effectively to clear it. Sure you can have content that lets players play the way they want to, but then you get people that play carelessly because the consequences aren't so bad. (Like people who don't kill boneknitters first in Natalan for some reason -_-)

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Yup, I agree. Even with time limits there's lots you can do with content and mechanics - e.g., clear this room to pop this, kill these mobs to pop that, etc. etc.

Hopefully we'll see more content in 2.0 (or maybe before) that has longer time limits than an hour, but either way I think time limits adds to the intensity of the content; especially in the early days of playing the content when you're still trying to learn the tricks, hints, etc.