Revelations from Patch 4.56

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Just to make sure, you meant Varis each time you wrote 'Gaius' yes?

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Yeah... For some reason I got Varis, Gaius and Solus all mixed up in my head.

Names are not my strong point :<

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Originally Posted by RaphAlar

Watching threads and posts on the theory it's G'raha Tia, and I think the idea is brilliant...but the question of why doesn't the WoL know his voice bugged me.

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There's one slightly meta explanation that he was never voiced in-game before (outside the fully-voiced Chinese version, which I believe is running an expansion or so behind the international client), and a second slightly meta explanation that his voice actor (going by Japnese here) has a really wide range. I had a joke with myself about it because of Ysayle, but if I had heard before 4.X that Yuma Uchida actually was being brought on to voice G'raha Tia, I would have immediately assumed he'd use the higher end of his range, because that would fit G'raha's bratty, immature, shounen manga protagonist image. (Hells, I would've sooner guessed he'd be sharing Taku Yashiro with Magnai.) The Enigmatic Figure we spoke to has none of G'raha's usual speech patterns, and might as well be a different character from our perspective.



Though in my head I took the "Who are you?" option to mean, "Stop pretending. I know who you are but I need you to say it." But obviously not everyone imagines the same emotional attachments for their characters.

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Originally Posted by RaphAlar

Watching threads and posts on the theory it's G'raha Tia, and I think the idea is brilliant...but the question of why doesn't the WoL know his voice bugged me.

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It's possible that his crystal corruption has affected his vocal chords and thus changed his voice somewhat.

The other side of it, is that the MSQ at this point doesn't have completion of the Crystal Tower raid storyline as canon. So not everyone has met G'raha Tia before this point.

I'd say a good reason for both not recognizing his voice if he is G'raha and why our character doesn't seem to quite get what they need to do when they wake up can be chalked up to how disorienting and/or dream-like a state they were in at the time, even more so compared to how the times initiated by Hydaelyn are. Our character HAD just been near-mortally wounded before finally being sucked into a talk with Enigimatic that also still didn't suck them into the First like it seems to have done with the rest.

At a more mundane level... unless he has a really distinctive voice, I don't think it's unreasonable for the WoL to not connect this ominous voice with that of a friend who they didn't know for all that long, and might not have expected to see again.

And as much as he might be visually obvious to us as observers of a story, our character is most likely in no state to recognise him at the time - running on adrenaline, panicked that they were just (and may still be) about to die, pulled into this bewildering place and realising this is the guy who's been snatching all our friends' souls... well, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be looking at the shape of the guy's face to try to work out whether I recognise him.

On the other hand, once we're safely back in reality with an instruction to seek out the Crystal Tower, our minds might start to turn back to memories of what happened there, and begin to wonder...


But then again, our character can be rather dense at times.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

But then again, our character can be rather dense at times.

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At the same time, oddly sharp.
Immediately recognizes Gaius based on mask and vague hinting that we've met before.
Quickly joins the dots in final SB Hildibrand questline regarding the sekiseigumi coincounter guy being drug controlled.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

At a more mundane level... unless he has a really distinctive voice, I don't think it's unreasonable for the WoL to not connect this ominous voice with that of a friend who they didn't know for all that long, and might not have expected to see again.

And as much as he might be visually obvious to us as observers of a story, our character is most likely in no state to recognise him at the time - running on adrenaline, panicked that they were just (and may still be) about to die, pulled into this bewildering place and realising this is the guy who's been snatching all our friends' souls... well, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be looking at the shape of the guy's face to try to work out whether I recognise him.

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Anger would have also helped to drown out his voice. The WoL was just constantly pissed until something like halfway through the conversation with Aymeric.

msq thoughts :

considering this was supposed to be the finally of SB, leading into ShB and what not, i felt kind of dissapointed. nothing really felt resolved, no loose ends were tied up. the empire still poses a threat, not Zenos is still alive, real Zenos (who only showed up for two cs's post 3.0) is still unresolved, the last msq update left me with countless questions regarding the empire and Ascians that never got answered. for a conclusion to the SB msq it feels rushed, and i'm left wondering if there was supposed to be more msq updates but they forgot/ran out of time.

On the subject of the Enigmatic Figure, perhaps he's a G'raha Tia, but not our G'raha Tia. We still don't have any actual evidence that there are alternate versions of characters from the Source on the First, but it's not an impossible concept. If this is the case, it could make things a little more coherent for players who may not have yet done the Crystal Tower raids, as this version of G'raha wouldn't know us one way or another, reducing the need for context, but also rewarding those who have cleared the raids with some possible additional dialogue in reference to that storyline. As further conjecture into the possibility, it could also explain some of the trailer as well. Perhaps the Y'shtola of the First was adopted by the Matoya of the First, and carried on the name and teachings of her adoptive mother? Perhaps who we see in the trailer are the alternate versions of the Scions? Or perhaps something ill befalls the versions from the First, and the Scions from the Source are forced to take up their torches and assume their places on the First? There's a lot that could happen.

From the way the alternate worlds have been presented - evolving separately since they split, with different cultures and races - I think it's logically very unlikely that we would encounter duplicate people. That's 12,000 years of every single person in your family tree finding the same partner - implausible to happen once, let alone for a whole group of people, especially when the world they live in is so different to the Source.

I'll be disappointed if we get alternate versions of people - it simply shouldn't happen unless the split was recent and the worlds are mostly identical.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

From the way the alternate worlds have been presented - evolving separately since they split, with different cultures and races - I think it's logically very unlikely that we would encounter duplicate people. That's 12,000 years of every single person in your family tree finding the same partner - implausible to happen once, let alone for a whole group of people, especially when the world they live in is so different to the Source.

I'll be disappointed if we get alternate versions of people - it simply shouldn't happen unless the split was recent and the worlds are mostly identical.

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From a realistic standpoint, you'd be very likely correct, and as I said there's no substantial evidence yet to suggest there even will be alt versions of characters. But this is also a fantasy setting, so I'm aware that "suspension of disbelief" does make these alts somewhat of a possibility. Either way, I have no strong feelings with whatever path they choose on the matter. However, I will be interested to see what they do with the story in either case.

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Originally Posted by ChaoticCrimson

From a realistic standpoint, you'd be very likely correct, and as I said there's no substantial evidence yet to suggest there even will be alt versions of characters. But this is also a fantasy setting, so I'm aware that "suspension of disbelief" does make these alts somewhat of a possibility. Either way, I have no strong feelings with whatever path they choose on the matter. However, I will be interested to see what they do with the story in either case.

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I really don't think alts would work, even in this setting, at least not without a good explanation. That said, it is possible that G'raha was cloned, and then sent to the First, this explains the alternate version of a character, but the alternate version is also still from the Source. I'd consider this option quite unlikely tho, more likely is that it actually is G'raha.

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Originally Posted by Vulcwen

I really don't think alts would work, even in this setting, at least not without a good explanation. That said, it is possible that G'raha was cloned, and then sent to the First, this explains the alternate version of a character, but the alternate version is also still from the Source. I'd consider this option quite unlikely tho, more likely is that it actually is G'raha.

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Considering were going to an alternate world and not a parallel one, means the likelyhood of us finding duplicate is rare, except maybe Rowena, we know she's gonna appear somehow, lol. That being said until further information is gathered, it's not unlikely that the "mysterious man/Miqo'te" isn't our G'raha Tia. The biggest hint is he knows who we are, even the Warriors of Darkness didn't know who we we're until we showed proof. Secondly, we know now, and it was hints way back when that the Crystal Tower can trancend dimensions, which given it's source material should of been a given in hindsight. G'raha said he was going to sleep until the time came to reopen the tower. But that has been some time, and we don't know if he was summoned to the tower on the first during his "slumber". Plus I've seen this a few times but I don't think he's a clone, like others have speculated. His story depicts him as a natural desendent of the Allagans. Whether some Allagans were Miqo'te or not, because of the Allagan creation debate, or if he is just a very diluted mixed breed is debatable.

Personally though, I am glad to see him return for 2 reasons. 1, he was a really interesting character, that I enjoyed interacting with. And 2, we finally have our first male Miqo'te main character, it only took 3 expansions, lol.

Also appologies for any spelling mistaken this tablets auto correct sucks.

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Originally Posted by Waffles298

i'm left wondering if there was supposed to be more msq updates but they forgot/ran out of time.

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Interestingly, in retrospect I think that they produced precisely as much story as they planned to. If you recall, it was noted in Patch 4.5 that there were more Main Scenario Quests than usual. At the time, I took that to mean that they had a lot of story left to tell, and that there'd be a lot to sink our teeth into both then, and again now at this patch. Now, instead, I suspect that they simply had run into the problem that the Ghimlyt Dark just couldn't be penciled into the schedule any earlier than it was - and since they HAD to have a dungeon added with 4.5, they were left but no choice to give us the lion's share of the remaining MSQs in that patch, leaving us the pitiful two quests we got to wrap things up in 4.56.

So, the problem wasn't running out of time or budget, but simply that the story they decided to tell was poorly plotted. Taken as a whole, the the 4.5 + 4.56 MSQs work a little bit better. Folks were excited about the revelations in 4.5, and talked about it in the forums for months. If those MSQs had been released NOW instead of THEN, the hype could have tided us over for most of the three months until Shadowbringers. Unfortunately, the 4.56 quests pretty much did nothing but maintain the status quo, so there isn't really anything new to get hyped about.

I will say, though, that even taken as a whole, the MSQs really ought to have done more to cement our reason for playing along with the Enigmatic Dude. Right now, we don't have an awful lot of reason to trust him - he's clearly the ones responsible for the Scions' current state, after all. We had definite goals at the end of ARR (clear our names!) and HW (prepare for war!), but our intentions right now are a lot more nebulous. The Garleans are a clear and present danger, but we're somehow supposed to be faffing about with the Enigmatic Dude? Perhaps the expansion will offer a good reason why we'd choose NOW to go to the First Shard, but I honestly wish we'd gotten some of that in this patch.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Interestingly, in retrospect I think that they produced precisely as much story as they planned to. If you recall, it was noted in Patch 4.5 that there were more Main Scenario Quests than usual. At the time, I took that to mean that they had a lot of story left to tell, and that there'd be a lot to sink our teeth into both then, and again now at this patch. Now, instead, I suspect that they simply had run into the problem that the Ghimlyt Dark just couldn't be penciled into the schedule any earlier than it was - and since they HAD to have a dungeon added with 4.5, they were left but no choice to give us the lion's share of the remaining MSQs in that patch, leaving us the pitiful two quests we got to wrap things up in 4.56.

So, the problem wasn't running out of time or budget, but simply that the story they decided to tell was poorly plotted. Taken as a whole, the the 4.5 + 4.56 MSQs work a little bit better. Folks were excited about the revelations in 4.5, and talked about it in the forums for months. If those MSQs had been released NOW instead of THEN, the hype could have tided us over for most of the three months until Shadowbringers. Unfortunately, the 4.56 quests pretty much did nothing but maintain the status quo, so there isn't really anything new to get hyped about.

I will say, though, that even taken as a whole, the MSQs really ought to have done more to cement our reason for playing along with the Enigmatic Dude. Right now, we don't have an awful lot of reason to trust him - he's clearly the ones responsible for the Scions' current state, after all. We had definite goals at the end of ARR (clear our names!) and HW (prepare for war!), but our intentions right now are a lot more nebulous. The Garleans are a clear and present danger, but we're somehow supposed to be faffing about with the Enigmatic Dude? Perhaps the expansion will offer a good reason why we'd choose NOW to go to the First Shard, but I honestly wish we'd gotten some of that in this patch.

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Taking both your points into account, my gut says that this is a bit of storytelling that will feel better in a single big binge than played on release. I think (or at least hope) that there's a big, complicated story arc being built up that will make a lot of sense fully laid out in hindsight with 5.0 out, but is currently lacking because of the enforced periodic release schedule of an MMO. Kinda like the opposite of the 2.X series in terms of pacing, which infamously have the daunting reputation of 100 MSQ in a single block.

Anyway, much moreso than 2.4 and 2.5's build up to 3.0 and 3.4 and 3.5's to 4.0 with their climaxes, 4.5 feels a lot like the middle part of an arc started with 4.4 and will hopefully be fully resolved in 5.0. And this ultimately might be better narratively. Like, considering the deaths thread currently in the forum, 2.5 was very climactic but ultimately wrote a lot of checks for the narrative that ended up bouncing--it was a very hollow climax. 4.5 is kinda lacking in any significant climaxes and revelations, but that just might mean a better payoff come 5.0. Just my thoughts on the situation anyway, in trying to make the most of my mild dissatisfaction with 4.56's presentation.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's called "A Requiem for Heroes", and nobody died.

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for what it's worth

it's a Requiem for Heroes because the next time the gang gets together we're turning into (Jet-black) Villains

(When do we actually stop putting spoiler tags on everything? It should be safe to leave MSQ spoilers uncovered now, right? It's been a week and a half, and we've accidentally slipped out of it anyway.)

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I will say, though, that even taken as a whole, the MSQs really ought to have done more to cement our reason for playing along with the Enigmatic Dude. Right now, we don't have an awful lot of reason to trust him - he's clearly the ones responsible for the Scions' current state, after all. We had definite goals at the end of ARR (clear our names!) and HW (prepare for war!), but our intentions right now are a lot more nebulous. The Garleans are a clear and present danger, but we're somehow supposed to be faffing about with the Enigmatic Dude? Perhaps the expansion will offer a good reason why we'd choose NOW to go to the First Shard, but I honestly wish we'd gotten some of that in this patch.

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At this point, even if our character doesn't trust him at all, he's our best (and only, and important) lead on what has happened to the other Scions. So for now we *do* have to play along, at least until we can work out what's happened to them and how we can bring them back.

We want to rescue our friends, of course, but we also need their support to be able to stand our best chance against the Garleans and Ascians. So it's still furthering our goals in that way as well.

On the pacing of 4.50/4.56, I wonder if ideally the Ghimlyt Dark was meant to happen in 4.56 - or maybe there wasn't supposed to be a 4.56 at all (or had further plot ideas that got pushed into 5.0 instead), so they insisted on splitting it.

I was rewatching some older cutscenes to review what we've heard from "the voice" each time the Scions are taken, and the last is Alisaie in the post-dungeon scene there - shortly before 4.50 comes to its awkward halt and we get sent back to the Rising Stones to rest up for a vague amount of time.

But in 4.56, when we wake up after that vision... one of the specific dialogue choices we get is between [Is Alisaie alright?] or [How are the Scions?] - and it seems really odd to single her out like that if it's been some time since she fainted, but makes perfect sense if we went straight from Ghimlyt into the battle sequence of this patch.

It also accounts for the time anomaly of Edmont telling us that Artoirel had just departed for Ghimlyt in 4.56, despite Emmanellain telling us that back in 4.50.

So if that's correct, the intended progression would have been:

- The Ghimlyt Dark, with multiple teams of characters on the battlefield.

- post-Ghimlyt, Alisaie faints; maybe we return to Raubahn at the base and get some combination of the end-of-.50/start-of.56 scenes with him.

- "Zenos" arrives on the battlefield, and fights Hien, Yugiri and Lyse.

- everything else plays out as for 4.56.

So having finally caught up with the MSQ:

I can see why a lot of people are frustrated and it might be that I binged a lot of the MSQ recently but I see a hell of a lot of moving pieces being set up here and some peoples concerns miss some huge things that have been implicated.

First and for most is the issue with the balance between the Light and Dark. We know we cant deal with the Ascians yet because if we do we trigger a flood of light and lose. My suspicion is the thinning of aether is the first sign of a flood of Light approaching. That means even just beating the Garleans might start it. We need to learn how to solve that before we finally come to a climax against Acians and by proxy, Garlemald.

This last bit, as small as it is, set up a lot of explanation on why we have the time to deal with that. We see that Thancred's idea has paid off and it has forced the Garleans to divert their attention to stabilising their control before pressing against Eorzea again. That gives time for things to brew, including the Black Rose.

We get our in game indication that the Crystal Tower is a way to travel to other shards. As for why, apart from getting our allies back, we are told outright that either outcome of our current war ends in us losing, something which has been very strongly hinted at already and told that the solution lies on the First. That, more than anything else, would be an extremely compelling reason to go there. It is an answer we have needed rather desperately since we found out about the First from Albert.

Finally we see a lot of set up of things happening at home which almost certainly will brew to pay off later. We see Solas, probably possessing his grandson now, seems to have a plan involving the Black Rose and the rising light. My guess is he has seen a potential way of using how the Black Rose is effected by the Light to trigger a Calamity event which would probably cause a lot of rebalancing. I suspect he is hiding this from Elidibus because "he was ever the worrier" and there is a risk in allowing the Light to continue to rise. Ironically, I suspect becoming the WoD will lead to us effectively stopping the next calamity.

Finally we see our old friend, Zenos, still in some poor Elezen's body, and seemingly making the decision to 'reclaim what is his'. I think this will be important in two ways. Firstly he is a massive wildcard and I think he will end up throwing a major wrench in the Ascian's plans, maybe even managing to kill off Elidibus to reclaim his body. Secondly, I could see our final confrontation with Zenos being with him leading Garlemald in 6.X, particularly if Solas is riding in Varis's body and we end up killing Solas next expansion.

One other aspect of this I have been wondering about is if our assumption that it is just the Silvertear lake which is the 'Source' of Aether on Hydaelyn. This makes me a lot more interested in the Crystal Tower as it strike me as something that could very much be a relic of the pre split world or something created on each world when the split happened, sort of like the Aetheric epicentre. It would explain why the tower could be used to travel between the shards.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

We see that Thancred's idea has paid off and it has forced the Garleans to divert their attention to stabilising their control before pressing against Eorzea again.

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What if the very last scene with Varis means more he will use the blaqck rose for this and will destroy much of the Garlean empire this way?

He went back from the front to stop an internal fight for the leadership and rigth after this he gehts the information the black rose is ready for production.

Remembering the scene with Gaius in the camp, he already was using the black rose this way.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

What if the very last scene with Varis means more he will use the blaqck rose for this and will destroy much of the Garlean empire this way?

He went back from the front to stop an internal fight for the leadership and rigth after this he gehts the information the black rose is ready for production.

Remembering the scene with Gaius in the camp, he already was using the black rose this way.

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The Garleans seem to be definitely using it already and apparently wanted to use it against the Eorzean Alliance.

I think Varis intended to use it regardless but Solas seems to have something specific planned. He seemed particularly interested in how it would interact with the Light's rising influence.

This is why I think becoming the WoD will ironically stop a Cataclysm. I think Solas has some idea where the Black Rose's interaction with the light will turn it into some kind of supertoxin that will gas everything. In gaining the ability to tone down the Light's influence we will be able to stop this plan from going off. That is my hunch. Solas is on the poster art after all.

On a side note, I wonder what the twins new outfits will look like. I kind of want to see them grow up a bit too though that might be messing with the whole 'bubble of time' thing.

Something came to me, concerning the lack of voiceover in the CT quests: what if the voice calling to G'raha during the escape from the World of Darkness was actually Enigma? The visual effect is different (a flash of white instead of a dark blur), but the overall look is similar to the caliings from this past patch cycle. We were meant to assume it was Salina at the time, but it would really bring down the suspension of disbelief required in the final quest if G'raha got the entire "seal the Tower" gambit from some version of himself, rather than coming up with it on the spot after hearing from some random princess he'd never heard of before from memories that weren't even his to begin with.

Before moving into 5.0, some thoughts...

Loose ends

There's a number of outstanding plot points, which remain "hanging":

1. How the Resonance came to be and what its real purpose is
   
2. Whether the Ascian Overlord in Solus's guise was possessing him before he sired Varis's father
   
3. What Solus has been doing all this time
   
4. Why Elidibus was so eager to test the vessel

Unfortunately, Banri Oda couldn't be drawn into answering questions about these quite yet, so I'll be indulging in quite a bit of speculation. :p

A slumbering Overlord's true colours...

Solus's role in all this is interesting to me. It's odd that an Ascian Overlord should even need to "rest" - they're tireless immortal beings, don't seem to take long to recover from whatever battles they get into and have a singular devotion to resurrecting Zodiark. Even assuming he managed to rejoin a world, why would he suddenly go to rest whilst the other Overlords were about their work on the Source? We know that they don't necessarily tell each other what they're doing at any given point and enjoy considerable autonomy, beyond not messing things up by causing floods that write off entire worlds for the Rejoining. It's a hard pill to swallow that he's just been lying in that coffin all this time. So what has he actually been up to?

Let's assume for a moment that he is possessing Varis (or even a cloned version of him, given his remarks about Allagan cloning techniques), and has been since the tent scene in the Ghimlyt Dark... going over his lines, although he clearly respects Elidibus, to a degree, the implication that he's a "worrier" might be a sign of frustration at him and his methods. He seemed none too pleased about being dragged back into this all, and highly critical of Lahabrea, but again, dragged in from what? As an Ascian, what else would he be doing with his time? Regardless, the lines at the end of 4.4 essentially involve him instructing Varis to do his duty, and reminding him he has no decision-making authority in the whole affair.

Following that, there is the scene in 4.5 regarding Seiryu's Wall - Varis is hesitant about resuming the production of the Black Rose but wishes to do so to preserve Garlean lives; Solus, meanwhile, is excited about the possibilities it has in a place where the deluge of Light has worked on the local aether, suggesting this will enhance whatever effects it has if, for instance, the flood were farther ahead than on the Source, e.g. on the First, which is no doubt where he will be headed. Then comes the speech in the tent scene; for the first half, Varis mostly deflects the Alliance leaders' barbs, and the portrayal is consistent with his usual self. Then come the flickering lights in the second half, with the black moths drawn to them, which is a classical signifier of possession. The speech he gives is at odds with wanting to preserve Garlemald, because he admits that his new plan would involve Garlemald's erasure, and he speaks of taking things back to how they were at the beginning, before the races of man split... (bearing in mind Solus had also alluded earlier to restoring mankind to its rightful state in his earlier chat with Varis.) This is all with the aim of eventually hoping to render the Ascians a non-threat... but essentially by delivering exactly the fate they intend to bring about, anyway. The dramatic flare was also at odds with Varis, who but a few cutscenes before, Solus had described as being unable to mask his feelings well.

Now, if you re-cast this as Solus possessing Varis, it has some interesting implications. One, he clearly likes to parrot some of his own lines through Varis. Two, perhaps that mindset is not at all Varis's - pretend or otherwise - but Solus's. Better yet, perhaps he is frustrated at the progress the Ascians are making on the Source and Elidibus's fairly (to him, overly?) cautious leadership, and has a masterplan to take Elidibus out of his role and assume the part of Emissary for himself. A more radical agenda, yet, could be to try take over the very role of the Crystal of Darkness and unshackle himself from servitude to it, but it's not clear to me that he's that ambitious or whether it's even feasible, although we know there's means by which such a crystal could be created anew. Three, when he speaks of this becoming a family enterprise, perhaps he is not just joking and means to use Varis to come and go as he pleases within the Empire. I think edging Elidibus out of the scene seems to be a pretty reasonable possibility as to where Solus could be taking this. In either event, he needs the Rejoining to proceed apace, and tilting the First more towards the Dark through indiscriminate slaughter via the Black Rose could be his preferred means to do so.

Like (great grand)father, like (great grand)son...

In turn, that brings Zenos back into the picture. I've been rather dismissive of the prospect of whether being sired by an Ascian would have any effect on the resulting offspring, and this all ties into an as yet unknown chronology of events, but reflecting on that, it's not clear to me why it must be so that the offspring would not be affected in some way. Life on Hydaelyn is both corporeal and aethereal in nature. Ascian possession appears to erase the host for the most part and forms a bond with the body whilst the Ascian is possessing them. So what if this has in fact altered the Galvus bloodline? It may not express itself in Varis or his father, because they have the regular Garlean inability to manipulate aether, but Zenos's potential has been unlocked through the Resonance. It's not clear to me whether an Ascian - Solus included - guided this project, but it most likely took advantage of Allagan aetherochemistry to manipulate the Pureblood genome so as to remove any inhibitors it has to utilising magic.

That could also lead into what is so special about him as a host - if the above is true, he'd be part Overlord by nature, with the Resonance unlocking that power and giving him hold of something like the very potent Echo an Ascian Overlord would possess; he'd be a synthetically produced Overlord/Pureblood hybrid. So, rather than Aulus just implanting a particularly powerful imitation of the Echo in Zenos (Fordola's version is nothing like Zenos's, for instance), he could instead have been harnessing his latent potential. This would make him an excellent counterpart to the WoL.

Assuming these two plot elements both hold true, I wonder whether they could interact, and we could see Solus edging out Elidibus (I can't help but wonder if they've decided to move some of his intended role to Solus, due to Solus's popularity - Elidibus's has waned a lot since he faded into relative obscurity following ARR), assisting Zenos in reclaiming his body and teaming up with him to sow as much chaos as feasible on the Source and First. Zenos would serve as a useful means to Solus to distract you - he wouldn't even need to kill you whilst he busied about his work, but just unleash this obsessive frenemy of yours onto you, in order to distract and slow you down. I don't see Zenos taking out Varis as a good thing for the Empire (as a nation, not Ascian tool of chaos), as Varis is at least mentally stable and interested in the nation's and its people's continued existence, whereas Zenos essentially oppressed two regions with crushing brutality, having no regard for any life... on a whim, and allegedly has had no change of heart or desire for penitence. However, that's assuming Varis will be around to dispose of, and is not possessed by Solus. If Zenos were to cause such chaos, given Solus's own agenda and style, he might even embrace it.

I also like the comedic value of Solus taking some joy in repeating Varis's usual lines and severe tone.

Granted, they could just do whatever feels "cool" in the moment (rule of cool, and all that), and Varis may not be possessed and simply managing the situation as best he can, but I think this would make for a pretty awesome plotline/twist. I don't consider it plausible that Varis will unleash the Black Rose on the Empire, nor do I think he relishes in using it on the Alliance - his words pointed to a strong reluctance and that it was being done out of perceived necessity to limit Garlean casualties. The alternative is he may plan to use it on the Ascians, but that'll be futile since they'll just jump bodies without the right tools at hand. In turn, if it is Solus, he could just want to ensure Elidibus doesn't get in his way, but if he really thinks he's better at the job than Elidibus would be, I could see a takeover bid regardless.

If all they intend for Zenos is to be a wrecking ball in the Empire, I'd say meh. Waste of potential uses they could put him to.

Even more dangling loose ends...

On a side note, I also wonder what they're planning to do with Construct 7. Its ability to open portals to the very centre of the planet was interesting - the implication being that this could access the Aethereal Sea? - but I have a feeling that the way this raid content could be used is enabling Garlean reinforcements to circumvent Seiryu's Wall, increasing the pressure on Dalmasca and reinforcing Noah von Gabranth's IVth Legion. Yoshi P had alluded to Orbonne tying into some aspect of understanding 4.5, but as yet, there's nothing any of it clearly tied to that I could see. Again, it does reinforce the possibility suggested by many here that there was some re-writing that went on as the patch progressed, and we all know they were severely pressed for time, so mayhap this will resurface at a later point, tying in either to the two Crystals, or Dalmasca... or maybe something else.

MSQ thoughts I suppose.

I'm not surprised at the disappointment there seems to be in this thread about it. I've generally not been a fan of Stormblood's MSQ as a whole, so it having an unsatisfying ending is almost fitting. I was hoping/expecting for them to wrap up Elezen!Zenos though, if only because I think Zenos is a super boring character so I want to know what purpose they think bringing him back could have served.

...I don't mean to sound negative I just really haven't enjoyed Stormblood's MSQ at all.

I'm very excited to see where Shadowbringers takes us, but maybe there should have been a stinger at the end of the Scions all waking up in Nordrant or something. Something to tie it together better. The ARR->HW and HW->SB transitions were all very fluid, but this one wasn't.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Before moving into 5.0, some thoughts...

Loose ends

There's a number of outstanding plot points, which remain "hanging":

1. How the Resonance came to be and what its real purpose is
   
2. Whether the Ascian Overlord in Solus's guise was possessing him before he sired Varis's father
   
3. What Solus has been doing all this time
   
4. Why Elidibus was so eager to test the vessel

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Well I feel we have something of an answer already to some of these:

1. The Resonant are an attempt by the Garleans to overcome their inherent inability to channel Aether, which being a race that currently thinks themselves better than everyone else is a sore point. This evolved into effectively creating an artificial Echo by basically forcing the Anima from many souls into a single host. This is the basis for both Fordola and Zeno's resonant 'echo'. It is basically an artificial echo the Garleans managed to develop while researching how to overcome their inability to channel Aether. I suspect the reason we don't see a lot more is that it requires a lot of souls to make and sounds like it often kills the host. Zenos was pleased but surprised Fordola survived the process.

2. I think it is all but certain that from the start of his rise to power, Solas was an Ascian. They have pretty much outright stated he built the empire as a tool. Considering Solas was pretty young when it started it seems likely he sired the Garlean Imperial line.

3. We know that when their bodies die the Ascians can go to a place between worlds. It could be, having done his part, he handed the work over to Lahabrea. Alternatively he could have taken up a role in one of the other shards. We honestly don't know a great deal about the Ascians. However, effectively they seem to be souls with a powerful echo so maybe they can fatigue. After all we know they aren't without limit because we have beaten them down before and even destroyed several of those souls. It might be that every thousand years or so they take a rest to recharge the Aether in their shadow realm.

4. Its a powerful new toy. He wanted to take it for a spin. More importantly we are approaching a flood so naturally he wants to curtail that by putting us down. The balance actually might hint at us why the Ascians tend to allow Astral Eras to run for a while. After a Calamity they probably need to allow the Balance to correct back before having another huge disaster.

On the dangling threads:

I suspect that many of these threads will be left dangling till late in the patch cycle or even till next expansion. The only tie in to Orbonne I can think of is the Dalmascan Fusalier who was at the Eastern Alliance meeting and pretty much said that the Dalmascans still need to get organised and unified before they can be proper members of the Eastern Alliance. There is also the fact that it does tie into old MSQ as it establishes there is very likely a link between the High Seraph and the Ultima spell we ran into at the end of ARR, which suggests to me that the Heart of Sobek was a chunk of Auracite.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

MSQ thoughts I suppose.

I'm not surprised at the disappointment there seems to be in this thread about it. I've generally not been a fan of Stormblood's MSQ as a whole, so it having an unsatisfying ending is almost fitting. I was hoping/expecting for them to wrap up Elezen!Zenos though, if only because I think Zenos is a super boring character so I want to know what purpose they think bringing him back could have served.

...I don't mean to sound negative I just really haven't enjoyed Stormblood's MSQ at all.

I'm very excited to see where Shadowbringers takes us, but maybe there should have been a stinger at the end of the Scions all waking up in Nordrant or something. Something to tie it together better. The ARR->HW and HW->SB transitions were all very fluid, but this one wasn't.

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I don't think it helped that a lot of the reveals happened after Fanfest when things like us going to the First were already known. It would have been a much bigger twist if we didn't already literally know that.

I wouldn't say it isn't fluid per say because frankly we haven't seen the Shadowbringers half. There is a limit to what they can do at this point as we are still on the source. The need to go to the first isn't without context however. Finding a way to beat the Ascians while avoid a Flood of Light has been a problem we have had no solution too since we found out it was a problem from Albert in 3.4.

As for Zenos, I am afraid if you don't like him much I have a bad feeling that after Shadowbringers will bother you. My hunch is he is going to become a much greater antagonist in the expansion after Shadowbringers which is when I suspect we will deal with Zenos properly. I think it is very likely he will end up on his father's throne.

Thanks for the response - I think we have some inklings on where those threads are going, but there's still ambiguities...

What I am getting at with the Resonance is whether it was just a discovery by Aulus, or whether there was a "guiding hand" involved. I'm aware of the official lore behind it, hence my reference to aetherochemistry being the basis for it given what it essentially accomplished, which was also manipulation of the Garlean genome, but we're also aware of the Ascians doing their bit to contribute to the advance of knowledge, e.g. by teaching the Allagans how to bind Primals. Where it suits them, they'll share such knowledge - and implanting an artificial Echo seems like the sort of thing they could have taught the Garleans to ensure they don't fall too far behind in serving as their means to counterbalance the spread of Light on the world. It doesn't make too great a difference really; I was just wondering whether an Ascian, like Solus, was planning something with it all along. Soul transfer is something very much within their domain of expertise, after all. And yes, it was a pretty experimental technology, with many failed experiments in its wake.

On 2, I agree that that's the probable answer to the question. The gaps in that are around how old he'd have been when he had his children but it would in all likelihood be after he became possessed. I find this point very intriguing because I really want to know now whether this has affected the progeny in the way I outlined in my post and whether the Resonance was the key to unlocking this potential.

On 3, I mean we know that through very taxing means they can be permanently destroyed, but that aside, they just get right back up and battle after regular defeats, with the only down time being to find a new host if need be. Recharging the aether sounds plausible. At the same time, they operate on relatively large time horizons, so who knows... maybe they need a bit of time to kick back and chillax, and do things like research new ways of bringing about Calamities. No doubt he was alluding to an expectation that things were set in motion for their plans to proceed apace, until Lahabrea's defeat resulted in the balance being tilted too far towards the Light. So now the issue is not just restoring the First but also the Source, meaning it's not just a case of Elidibus fixing matters on the First, but both being required to restore the balance across both worlds, drawing him away from whatever else he was doing. Rest after all can just be leisure time. Still, that leaves me to wonder what he's been up to in that time. His role, up until now, has been unknown to us, besides his time as Emperor Solus, and that ended when Varis took over.

On 4, what I was trying to convey was that the Ascians seldom seem to care at all about their host's latent abilities, at all. They simply mould and enhance them as they see fit, like Nabriales's supernatural strength. My suspicion is that a host who possesses the Echo (or, equivalently, the Resonance) might have particularly special value to them, and this is because there's probably more interaction between the soul and body I had previously given credit for; particularly since the game often ties things like job abilities to being vestigial within the soul (acting as the mind), which was my takeaway from things like soulstones. Yet Elidibus is drawing on Zenos's knowledge of sword arts merely through possessing the body. I think it's an interesting take away that they may be able to do more with a host whose latent potential is enhanced e.g. by possessing the Echo/Resonance - in Zenos's case perhaps a very special kind of it.

Lastly, on the Orbonne thing, yeah that may be it. I'm thinking that they'll just leave the whole Construct 7 thing until they're ready to put Gabranth to greater use, which may be as far away as 6.0. Could also be that the "surprises" Yoshi was discussing in 4.5 were actually those to be found within Orbonne.

As such, the majority of these things remain unresolved and developing plot points... we have some idea of what's going on but still not the full picture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Belhi

As for Zenos, I am afraid if you don't like him much I have a bad feeling that after Shadowbringers will bother you. My hunch is he is going to become a much greater antagonist in the expansion after Shadowbringers which is when I suspect we will deal with Zenos properly. I think it is very likely he will end up on his father's throne.

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Yeah, I'm thinking a use they could put him to in that case is have him be the "capstone" on the Source Varis was intended to be, and Solus the "anchor in the shard" on the First. So a "family enterprise" after all, just with some of the figures rearranged. As far as Solus is concerned, that'd be conducive to spreading chaos on both worlds, which is his primary aim, as opposed to stability in the Empire. So, a win-win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I don't think it helped that a lot of the reveals happened after Fanfest when things like us going to the First were already known. It would have been a much bigger twist if we didn't already literally know that.

I wouldn't say it isn't fluid per say because frankly we haven't seen the Shadowbringers half. There is a limit to what they can do at this point as we are still on the source. The need to go to the first isn't without context however. Finding a way to beat the Ascians while avoid a Flood of Light has been a problem we have had no solution too since we found out it was a problem from Albert in 3.4.

As for Zenos, I am afraid if you don't like him much I have a bad feeling that after Shadowbringers will bother you. My hunch is he is going to become a much greater antagonist in the expansion after Shadowbringers which is when I suspect we will deal with Zenos properly. I think it is very likely he will end up on his father's throne.

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More MSQ talk.

That's absolutely the case regarding the timing of this patch. If 4.5 had come all at once instead of being divided, and so we didn't know what we know now, the reveal of Crystal Tower at the end would have been a huge bomb drop moment.

It's true we haven't seen the Shadowbringers intro yet, but I'm thinking about how ARR ended with us in Coerthas and a goal of going to Ishgard, and HW ended with the Shinry and Baelsar's Wall stuff and knowing full well war was around the corner. Someone else mentioned it earlier in the thread, but right now we're kind of just left hanging with a "what's next?" and it feels weird compared to the last two expansion endings. It's not necessarily a bad spot to leave us at, but in comparison to the last two it's just out of place. I don't hate it or anything.

Regarding Zenos, I'm also prepared for basically what you said. The thing is I just don't think he's very compelling. Maybe they can turn that around for me, but right now all I see is two-dimensional blood knight. "I love fighting, the thrill of the hunt" is basically the only aspect of his personality. And as things stand right now, with EleZenos having done nothing since his introduction, it feels really unnecessary to have him be revived at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

More MSQ talk.

That's absolutely the case regarding the timing of this patch. If 4.5 had come all at once instead of being divided, and so we didn't know what we know now, the reveal of Crystal Tower at the end would have been a huge bomb drop moment.

It's true we haven't seen the Shadowbringers intro yet, but I'm thinking about how ARR ended with us in Coerthas and a goal of going to Ishgard, and HW ended with the Shinry and Baelsar's Wall stuff and knowing full well war was around the corner. Someone else mentioned it earlier in the thread, but right now we're kind of just left hanging with a "what's next?" and it feels weird compared to the last two expansion endings. It's not necessarily a bad spot to leave us at, but in comparison to the last two it's just out of place. I don't hate it or anything.

Regarding Zenos, I'm also prepared for basically what you said. The thing is I just don't think he's very compelling. Maybe they can turn that around for me, but right now all I see is two-dimensional blood knight. "I love fighting, the thrill of the hunt" is basically the only aspect of his personality. And as things stand right now, with EleZenos having done nothing since his introduction, it feels really unnecessary to have him be revived at all.

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To be fair, ARR ended with us in Coerthas ready to head to Ishgard for several months after becoming a wanted criminal across Eorzea, with Kan-E and Merlwyb needing to cover for us. It was kind of an awkward transition period.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daralii

To be fair, ARR ended with us in Coerthas ready to head to Ishgard for several months after becoming a wanted criminal across Eorzea, with Kan-E and Merlwyb needing to cover for us. It was kind of an awkward transition period.

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To be honest, being a wanted criminal, that very few people could recognize was an amusing concept.

Like, imagine the wanted posters:

Wanted: Warrior of Light
Race: Unknown
Appearance: Unknown
Profession: Unknown
Personality traits: Likes to help people for no personal gain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

More MSQ talk.

Regarding Zenos, I'm also prepared for basically what you said. The thing is I just don't think he's very compelling. Maybe they can turn that around for me, but right now all I see is two-dimensional blood knight. "I love fighting, the thrill of the hunt" is basically the only aspect of his personality. And as things stand right now, with EleZenos having done nothing since his introduction, it feels really unnecessary to have him be revived at all.

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I've always found him kind of terrifying in a more metatextual sense in that his motivations and style is basically that he's a bored player character and that's probably made it more interesting to me than any in-universe arc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cybylt

I've always found [Zenos] kind of terrifying in a more metatextual sense in that his motivations and style is basically that he's a bored player character and that's probably made it more interesting to me than any in-universe arc.

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That tends to go over a lot of peoples' heads...

MSQ, regarding Solus and Enigma.

In regards to Enigma and Solus, both characters who flank Minfilia in the Shadowbringers artwork, rewatching some cutscenes I realized something that could be interesting.

https://i.imgur.com/F29AIZV.png
https://i.imgur.com/QGZD7To.png

Look at their gear. They share the same color scheme. Not just that, but also the white gems in their attires, mainly Enigma's staff and chest and Solus' coat ornaments.

I know enough to realize outfit choices are rarely random. This similarity probably means something. We do know Solus is an Ascian, so what could exactly relate him to Enigma?

I am convinced that Enigma has some connection to Zodiark. His call was tinged with Darkness and he is probably who will make us Warriors of Darkness. He might be even Zodiark himself, or his chosen vessel like Minfilia is Hydaelyn's.

Now, it has been pondered if Emet-Selch, the Ascian that most likely is Solus, might be actually two related entities, since Emet-Selch is the counterpart of Zalera, the esper associated with the Zodiac sign of Gemini. Could Enigma be an opposed part of Emet-Selch's being, trapped within the Crystal Tower? Or this similarity might underline something different? What are your thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShadowMeowth

We do know Solus is an Ascian

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Maybe its a little bit to separated, but

Solus is a garlean body with an Ascian Soul.

I still see there a difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShadowMeowth

MSQ, regarding Solus and Enigma.

In regards to Enigma and Solus, both characters who flank Minfilia in the Shadowbringers artwork, rewatching some cutscenes I realized something that could be interesting.
https://i.imgur.com/F29AIZV.png
https://i.imgur.com/QGZD7To.png

Look at their gear. They share the same color scheme. Not just that, but also the white gems in their attires, mainly Enigma's staff and chest and Solus' coat ornaments.

I know enough to realize outfit choices are rarely random. This similarity probably means something. We do know Solus is an Ascian, so what could exactly relate him to Enigma?

I am convinced that Enigma has some connection to Zodiark. His call was tinged with Darkness and he is probably who will make us Warriors of Darkness. He might be even Zodiark himself, or his chosen vessel like Minfilia is Hydaelyn's.

Now, it has been pondered if Emet-Selch, the Ascian that most likely is Solus, might be actually two related entities, since Emet-Selch is the counterpart of Zalera, the esper associated with the Zodiac sign of Gemini. Could Enigma be an opposed part of Emet-Selch's being, trapped within the Crystal Tower? Or this similarity might underline something different? What are your thoughts?

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On the above...

The thing about "Enigma's" outfit is that it looks much closer to outfits associated with the Garlean Republic (e.g. the Signifier or Medicus set) than anything we've seen out of the Allagan Empire, but it could just be a similarity in design. There are elements in the design, such as the hood and the rod, which do appear to be Allagan, and given how long the Allagan Empire lasted, it could have been characteristic of what was worn in earlier time periods. Could even be civilian apparel that we simply haven't seen yet. If so, then maybe Solus's outfit's design draws on Allagan designs, given his own fascination for the Allagan Empire.

Given all that we know about the Allagan Empire, with the Ascians teaching them how to bind Primals, and the fact that the Heart of Sabik, powering Ultima Weapon, contained a sliver of Zodiark's essence, their ties to it are strong. We don't really know which Ascian(s) oversaw it, but there is every possibility it was Emet-Selch, especially as one of the Overlords tied to the Source. Although the Allagans were an ingenuous bunch, whenever they ran dry with ideas, the Ascians very helpfully stepped in, and I wonder if this also applied to the Voidgate itself, since they are intimately familiar with travelling shards and the Void itself, electing to then impart their secrets to the Allagan magi. Funnily enough, like Xande, he too was cloned, but by Varis, probably concerned about what would happen with the war of succession in Solus's absence, which makes the reasons a bit similar to Amon's for bringing back Xande to deal with the empire's stagnation.

This isn't necessarily G'raha we're dealing with, but a time traveler version of him does seem plausible - could also be something else, like a clone. Either way, a connection to Zodiark remains a possibility. A vessel of Zodiark would be an interesting prospect - also not impossible, since Elidibus plays a different role to Minfilia in his capacity as Emissary, and isn't her Ascian equivalent, leaving the role open to someone else, but I was expecting that to be Unukalhai, if anyone, which also acts as a reference to him being kept child-like in the Ivalice universe. The way he throws the question at you, as to how might you accomplish your goal on the First, when you're a Champion of Light, almost seems like an open taunt. It just seems like a fitting destiny for him. A link between this Enigma and Solus would certainly possible, given Ascian involvement in the Allagan Empire, however I'm reluctant to draw too much from a similarity in the outfits, since it could just be the usual Garlean love of all things Allagan - and Solus is no exception there, Ascian though he may be.

On another note, the Tower presumably has to be powered by something to allow it to function as a sustained portal to other worlds - if that's what it will be - and I'm guessing that will be whatever power source Nero had hoped to find beneath the Tower, which his discarded device picked up on. Probably won't require as much power as sustaining the Voidgate took, but still a considerable amount.

Emet-Selch's star sign being linked to Gemini is something I hope that they will embellish and draw on a bit more, since they do appear to inspire the Ascian Overlords' personalities a bit from their associated FFXII espers, but on a selective basis and only in certain regards. I've no doubt they'll make use of the Death Seraph aspect.

All that said, the destination of the expansion has me pretty psyched... the cutscene toward the end of 4.56, rising up with the Tower, evoked some old FF nostalgia, especially for IX. I'm hoping that the actual method of travel won't require the Echo and will allow travel between the worlds, assuming the end-game isn't them merging with the Source (rejoining them but without the destruction the commonly understood method results in), in some capacity. The interesting thing is that this time, the Tower will actually serve as a beacon of hope on the First, and fulfill that purpose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cybylt

I've always found him kind of terrifying in a more metatextual sense in that his motivations and style is basically that he's a bored player character and that's probably made it more interesting to me than any in-universe arc.

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It comes across quite strongly, but I'd have to say I am far more intrigued by the in-universe arcs at this point.

On the subject of FFIX, it always bugged me how G'raha had Zidane's hairstyle. They could definitely do interesting things if they decide to work the Allagan cloning angle, though. I got a sudden mental image of G'raha (and the entire line of Desch) not really being Miqo'te of the G, but a bunch of Genomes. Probably nothing, but still...

Would that make the other one Kuja? :p The funny thing is, he did seem concerned about that (the cloning) at first, until Doga assuaged his fears... but who knows, given the Allagan predilection for messing with just about everything, maybe he didn't have the full picture.

Regarding Elezenos

When the cutscene opens on Elezenos, his eyes are glowing red like Fordola's do when she's having an echo flashback, does Zenos possess the same power?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenral

On the subject of FFIX, it always bugged me how G'raha had Zidane's hairstyle. They could definitely do interesting things if they decide to work the Allagan cloning angle, though. I got a sudden mental image of G'raha (and the entire line of Desch) not really being Miqo'te of the G, but a bunch of Genomes. Probably nothing, but still...

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I am absolutely always up for more IX references, if my character's last name didn't make that obvious enough. The Allagan cloning angle could certainly be a way to approach Genomes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

Regarding Elezenos

When the cutscene opens on Elezenos, his eyes are glowing red like Fordola's do when she's having an echo flashback, does Zenos possess the same power?

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To answer your question:

Both Zenos and Fordola were given an Artificial Version of the Echo known as the Resonance. The Technique was pioneered by a Garelan Scientist named Aulus mal Asina. Creating the Resonant is apparently a very dangerous process for the individual undergoing it, as Fordola's success was apparently a bit of a surprise. It apparently involves someone with the echo to "copy" off of, since Krile was kidnapped for exactly that reason. Evidence from Stormblood suggests it also involves the execution of a lot of people in order for it to work. The Eorzean Alliance had to remove piles of bodies from the machine when they removed Krile from it at the end of Stormblood. I'm kind of expecting the Resonant to come up a lot more in the future.

The Echo can provide a wide variety of powers, including the potential to possess Primals (as shown by Zenos' possession of Shinryu and Ysale's control over Shiva). It can show visions of the past, allow you to interpret any language, and allow you to possess new bodies after death, as shown by both Zenos and the Ascians. Since the Resonance is an artificial version of the Echo, it can also (apparently) do most of the same things. When Resonant Users activate their powers, their eyes appear to change. We don't know for sure that Zenos gets visions from the past, but it's certainly possible, and would be consistent. It's also possible he can use it for that, but chooses not to since Zenos appears to have more control over his echo powers than we do.

Regarding Elezenos

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

When the cutscene opens on Elezenos, his eyes are glowing red like Fordola's do when she's having an echo flashback, does Zenos possess the same power?

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We already saw original-Zenos doing that in Stormblood - I think when he was taking control of Shinryu.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Claymore65

Evidence from Stormblood suggests it also involves the execution of a lot of people in order for it to work. The Eorzean Alliance had to remove piles of bodies from the machine when they removed Krile from it at the end of Stormblood. I'm kind of expecting the Resonant to come up a lot more in the future.

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Just a quick aside on this:

The impression I got was not that these people were executed to enable the process, but that they were other individuals who were slated to be given the Resonance, and the process failed. Lethally. Basically, out of scores of test subjects, there were only two (known) successes: Fordola and Zenos. The rest all died, instead in a risky experimental procedure with a ridiculously high lethality rate. It's not too surprising that Fordola would have been willing to try (assuming she'd even been informed of the risks at all). At the point where she agreed to be augmented, she'd just failed a major initiative against the Alliance and fully expected Zenos to execute her on the spot. The fact that Zenos gambled with his own life is a bit more startling - but then, he's not exactly the sanest of individuals. Possibly also his narcissism left no doubt in his mind that he would be among the gifted...