Revelations from Keynote II

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Oh, yeah, and our oft-forgotten magitek armor "Maggie" arguably has a soul too.

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As far as I can tell, though, self-awareness/self-determination and having a soul seems to be separate things in FFXIV.

Specifically, I'm thinking of Alpha. He was totally self-aware and could do plenty of things against and apart from his created purpose, but it was only at the end of the Omega raid series that the Echo works on Alpha, which Cid speculates is because Alpha has grown a soul just then.

We never did "hear" Maggie through the Echo, but that could be because her story is "done" for now. (And possibly because the lore team hadn't come up with that piece of lore about souls at the time.)

AFAIR, Maggie had a mammet core; mammets have soulkin quasi-souls.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I can't help but find it a bit curious that Varis is absent from the Shadowbringers art, nor was he noted as being a major player in the expansion.

I'm wondering if Solus's words that he probably wouldn't see him again are an implication that the Ascians intend to get rid of him. It would be simple enough for them to have Elidibus replace him when he's already ceded control of the imperial armies to him.

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I thought about that but equally, Gaius is also absent, as are many other key figures. Part of why I think he is, is because I don't believe the Garlean conflict is going to remain the main issue for too long - it may come to the fore when venturing to Dalmasca, but I think it'll fade into the background fast, to give way to the issue of the "twin dooms". Solus's words, and Varis's performance at the second half of the meeting, do make me think he could have been removed from the equation, but at the same time it could just be Solus expressing confidence in Elidibus's plan, so much so that he is no longer required on the Source.

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Originally Posted by ShinShimon

It's absolutely time travel. I don't see how people can support a "we're going to the First!" interpretation with all the hints that Yoshida's been dropping. Specifically, we're going into an apocalyptic future, but also trying to avert it... this will probably mean splitting the timeline, which will justify us being able to go back to visit the alt-future zones even after we've prevented the calamity/flood of light.

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They're not mutually exclusive possibilities, though. Also, how much sense does it make to go to the future? If anything, the time travel will be to the past, or it will involve someone from the future coming to the present. The situation on the First may be so dire that it requires it. It could also explain the aged down Minfilia, but the fact that she retains the Word of the Mother aspect to her is in need of further explanation. Unless something else is at play.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm pleasantly surprised that they've thus far managed to avoid disclosing any information that really spoils what's going to actually happen at the end of the 4.5 MSQ. There's really only fuel for theories at this point.



There's been multiple instances of non-Echo related soul shenanigans in side quests, such as with Genbu and Soroban in the Four Lords quests and Lalai and Shatotto in the SB BLM quests. You could probably consider what happened with Nidhogg and Estinien a similar case.

It seems like anyone who's powerful enough and has the know-how can potentially linger after the loss of their physical body.

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To add to this, we don't even know whether she has it or not - she might. She's an expert on aetheric transfers, though, and probably could figure out how to enter a currently empty body. I think the scene is fairly clear-cut in what is going on (as always, there's potential for misdirection) - scepticism is fine, but simply because we don't know how it's occurring doesn't mean that it's not. The Echo allows for the soul to endure and persist even when untethered from a body, and more besides that. Simple soul transference between bodies is an easier affair, by all appearances.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

i think we kill Elidibus as well as Solus releases a light aspected Black rose killing both the Alliance and Garlean main forces and this tips the balance on the source within the maelstrom of death we plead to Hydalen for a way to stop it and we get sent to the source to fetch Minifilia and bring her back but she refuses to leave the 1st to their own suffering and to combat the light there we become the WoD

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The problem with that hypothesis is that Solus is interested in resurrecting Zodiark, not destroying a world that the Ascians want to rejoin, through a flood of light. If anything, I think Solus may want to tip the balance back to darkness, but it ultimately depends on how much chaos it would even cause at this point on the First - of course, he'll probably do his utmost. I think there is a good chance that the "absorption" of Light Minfilia is effecting is seeping into the Source and not just into Hydaelyn, meaning both worlds are on the brink. The presence of the Light-aspected beings is as yet unexplained, in terms of their nature, origin, motives etc - maybe they will mirror Voidsent. Elidibus's fate is as yet to be determined. Whilst they may kill him off permanently, I think it's too soon, and hinges heavily on many other aspects of the plot. This soon, I'd consider it to be a waste. I think he'll just leave Zenos's body, and take on another to accomplish his revised agenda. Alternatively, the WoL could "die" and at this point be whisked away for an audience before Zodiark. :) The soul could return to the body thereafter. There's a lot of variables involved here, including the things I mentioned regarding the true nature of the crystals, so we're stuck with guesswork for now.

I think there is also another issue with this. The lore appears to suggest two methods of spreading light or darkness: either championing one of the two crystals (we know Hydaelyn grants the BoL, but it's unclear whether Zodiark is in a position to grant an equivalent to the Overlords and any other champions of his), or engaging in actions which are aligned to one or the other (spreading chaos or order, as far as I can tell.) Now, the WoL whilst bearing Hydaelyn's blessing spreads light, and I think this is irrespective of what actions he takes. So, I think to become the WoD in such a manner it will be necessary to gain Zodiark's blessing, because I believe the alternative is that you'd have to drop the BoL and engage in actions conducive to spreading chaos, like the Ascians (or I guess the First's WoDs planned to) do. At least based on our present state of knowledge, this is how I see things.

Arbert may appear to be a confounding factor here, but my understanding is he does not bear the BoL as the WoD, and on top of this he and the others were working with Elidibus anyway. Bearing the Blessing of Darkness may be what makes our WoD more effective than him.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

We haven't seen any other Ascian hosts looking "corrupted" like that though, so it's more likely to be unrelated and (if it is indeed G'raha) attributable to the Crystal Tower's influence.

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Yes, the corruption is probably unrelated to any possession, as such; I brought it up because it explains the odd appearance and such divergences as there are with G'raha's known appearance. It could also be attributed to a certain dark crystal using him as a vessel through his Emissary. ;)

There are many very good reasons as to why an Ascian would want him as a host, mainly involving the Crystal Tower. Although it would need some modifications to allow for a sustained portal to another world (or even timeline), an Ascian would be precisely the sort of individual to know how to accomplish this. They were enmeshed in the Allagan Empire as one of their projects, so they would no doubt be aware of the potential uses the tower could be put to, alongside whatever other uses an individual of Allagan blood could have.

Conversely, he may become relevant just due to that reason anyway, even with no possession, but I think if he is the missing link with the mysterious, echoing voice, there may well be some connection to the Crystal of Darkness, based on how these echoes began - the unleashing of the energies in the House of the Crooked Coin. I don't think the auri NPC's comment on the sliver of darkness she now sensed in the WoL was accidental, and in my mind, this could have been the opening of a channel of communication with Zodiark, or a servant of his. I think you're right that the robes have an Allagan flair to them, and particularly a resemblance to the Dreadwyrm hood of healing, so I will grant that it's not particularly decisive, but I think it's certainly a promising route they could explore if they wanted to via Ascian possession, and maybe take it even further and use him as a vessel for the darkness equivalent of the Word of the Mother, the closest to which at the moment is Elidibus.

For the time being the only certain thing is that they've gone to some effort to obscure his appearance and he has undergone some really puzzling mutations. The Crystal Tower does seem like an excellent prop for any time or world travel that might come into it, albeit it'll need something to power this. Maybe a new use for the Heart of Sabik?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Alternatively, the WoL could "die" and at this point be whisked away for an audience before Zodiark. :)

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Given the level of sass the WoL has shown throughout SB, I think it'd be hilarious to go meet big daddy Zodiark.

Just think of how that particular conversation will go! xD

I firmly expect more than a few nods or head shakes.

Also...

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Originally Posted by Kalise

#GunbreakerHype

Wonder where it's gonna sit in terms of Tank balance.

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An early answer.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The thing makes me doubt time travel is involved is the fact that we're inevitably going to have to return to all of the different expansion zones for the post-5.0 MSQ. What reason would we have to return to a bad future if things have been patched up?

On the flipside, if we're going to the First to curb the flood of light, there's all sorts of reasons we could have for going back over there once matters have been seemingly resolved.

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We'll probably end up forking the timelines, leaving the original hellhole future intact while we create a different one for ourselves. Whatever time machine BS we used to get to the hellhole future will stay intact, along with that timeline, even after we finish the SH main quest.

I'd just like to point out that we know very, very, very little of what Ilsabard and Garlemald in particular are like. We do know that Garlemald is in a very inhospitable region. We don't have that great an idea about what makes it inhospitable, except that since it's so far north, it's climate is likely like that of Siberia. The FFXIV team could do pretty much anything with Ilsabard and it wouldn't contradict what we know of the continent. I'm kinda wondering if the new raid and the zones we haven't seen yet are in Ilsabard and the team just doesn't want to spoil that yet.

As it is, Ilsabard is huge. It's the clouded-over center part of the map and is at least as big as Othard is if not bigger. Thavinir is also an option for locations as well. There's plenty of space for the FFXIV team to fit in six zones on the preexisting world map with room to spare if they would just lift the cloud cover.

http://i.imgur.com/qYMg2XF.jpg

Well, my thoughts are that they have already revealed 3 zones. One of these is near Dalmasca, and the other two, although potentially in Ilsabard, may well lie within its fringes. Orbonne nudged heavily in Dalmasca's direction, so that will probably occupy a zone or two, as would Thavnair if we went there. It'd be an opportune time to go there, as it's not far from Dalmasca and it may become treacherous to access Ilsabard through other avenues. Amh Araeng had a pretty unique look to it, with those large natural crystalline walls, so I can see why some may get the impression that it could be at the epicentre of a flood of light.

So, I'm leaning to the view that they're reserving most of Ilsabard and a perhaps few other zones (e.g. Sharlayan) for 6.0, with the New World coming in 7.0, perhaps departing from Sharlayan.

The new raid may well be in Ilsabard, and there is also that giant figure on the map, which some think could be used as a XIV interpretation of the Giant of Babil. It's a question of how much of Ilsabard will we see.

The prospect of world hopping and/or time travel, and lack of any clear resemblance to existing areas, are proving to be real confounding factors here.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That's apparently due to the "mammet core" we installed in her - however they're supposed to work.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

AFAIR, Maggie had a mammet core; mammets have soulkin quasi-souls.

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Ah yeah, I did forget the "quasi-soul." That makes things potentially easier.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

As far as I can tell, though, self-awareness/self-determination and having a soul seems to be separate things in FFXIV.

Specifically, I'm thinking of Alpha. He was totally self-aware and could do plenty of things against and apart from his created purpose, but it was only at the end of the Omega raid series that the Echo works on Alpha, which Cid speculates is because Alpha has grown a soul just then.

We never did "hear" Maggie through the Echo, but that could be because her story is "done" for now. (And possibly because the lore team hadn't come up with that piece of lore about souls at the time.)

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Alpha never really does anything outside his prime directive until after the defeat of Omega-M/F. He certainly went above and beyond the scope for which he was intended, but until then he just got us to fight Omega's test subjects and then Omega itself, which is the entire reason he was created. Going on a journey was the first independent thing he willed himself to do outside of his intended purpose.

Might be why we can't Echo-talk with mammets - they have some degree of intelligence, but no real will of their own. Except maybe Vivi.

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Originally Posted by ShinShimon

We'll probably end up forking the timelines, leaving the original hellhole future intact while we create a different one for ourselves. Whatever time machine BS we used to get to the hellhole future will stay intact, along with that timeline, even after we finish the SH main quest.

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If we create a timeline where the future is fine, we would still have no logical reason to return to the bad timeline for future MSQ purposes.

It's things like this that make me really dubious about the inclusion of time travel. It usually works fine when the plot is completely written around it, such as in Chrono Trigger, but when it's suddenly introduced into a setting as a major plot point things can get messy. Not to mention that whole Alexander questline suggested that XIV operates under the "stable time loop" principle, meaning that an attempt to change the future will actually end up causing the future to happen...though that may explain why they keep going on about how fate cannot be changed (Such in the new year's message) or embracing fate (As Y'shtola/Matoya said in the trailer).

After watching the additional scenes I'm leaning more towards us going to the first. The hints seems to point to more than just time travel. How can Thancred use magical bullets? Why do Yoshida point out how Y'shtola is not exactly a black mage? We already know the scions are never purely one job at why make this destinction with her? Then I started thinking about the WOD scene and remembered their jobs are different than ours. Maybe things seem close but not exactly the same. Plus Minfilla is back so that means the WOD storyline is coming back to focus. Everyone was called before us so maybe the scenes we are seeing are happening on the first prior to our arrival and that is why the forest is burnt before we arrive.

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Originally Posted by RukiaFae

After watching the additional scenes I'm leaning more towards us going to the first. The hints seems to point to more than just time travel. How can Thancred use magical bullets? Why do Yoshida point out how Y'shtola is not exactly a black mage? We already know the scions are never purely one job at why make this destinction with her? Then I started thinking about the WOD scene and remembered their jobs are different than ours. Maybe things seem close but not exactly the same. Plus Minfilla is back so that means the WOD storyline is coming back to focus. Everyone was called before us so maybe the scenes we are seeing are happening on the first prior to our arrival and that is why the forest is burnt before we arrive.

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I think we are not time traveling. We will be Reflection jumping.

This forest in the cutscenes where is exactly located in Hydaelyn?

They haven't specified where any of the zones are, though the fact that the Nu Mou are seemingly present in the Rak'tika Greatwood suggests that it's likely somewhere in southern Othard/southeastern Islabard.

The forest in the cutscenes is in the Rak'tika Greatwood and they specifically mentioned the forest looking very similar to a forest we had already seen. Probably they were referring to the forest in the Osborn Monestary zone. The tree designs do look very similar to those...

WELCOME TO YOKO TARO'S WILD RIDE

My initial reaction while standing in the Hall (number of seats, SE? What's that about?), was that perhaps "Matoya" is a title, and that is the reason for her close relationship with Y'shtola all these years. She wasn't simply training her, but training a replacement or successor?


And on Gunbreaker, I wondered if the abilities mentioned might not be the old Weapon Break / Armour Break etc from previous games.



Lastly, at the risk of stirring the pot, the robed figure on the right of the artwork, with the straps and ornate bangles on the wrist... well, it's a little like the original Bard AF hands, and Bard is all about performance, which is.... maybe a bit like... dancing?

Anyone else remember when before SB Yoshi mentioned stuff abut Thavnair that ultimately never had a single appearance in SB outside of oh hey they have an embassy i'd like to go there one day same with sharlayen but i doubt we will for a long time :(

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Anyone else remember when before SB Yoshi mentioned stuff abut Thavnair that ultimately never had a single appearance in SB outside of oh hey they have an embassy i'd like to go there one day same with sharlayen but i doubt we will for a long time :(

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Wasn't that about the Uznair Canals in treasure maps ?

What bugs me is how the areas are not known. Surely before heavensward we had heard of Dravania, Isle of Val, Ala Mhigo, these kind of things. And we knew about Othard / Doma.
But here it is plain unknown.

If it is on Ilsabard, do we really know so little about it?
If it is from another continent, that could be hydaelyn. (Do we know where did the Miqotes come from when they crossed the frozen seas during the Xth Umbral Era ?)
If it is in another shard, then it's ok I guess...

These areas look Light aspected (at least Ahm Araeng, Il Mehg and that pinkish area we have an artwork for). I'm in the side of "We are going in a Light imbalanced shard, and we'll learn from it so we can change things in Hydaelyn"

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

[*]Preview of the TRUST system showed Thancred tanking, Urianger healing, and Y'shtola on DPS in a forest dungeon

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What job was Yoshi-Ps character in that screenshot?
http://www.novacrystallis.com/wp-con...9_PARIS_13.png

Usually he's BLM, but I really can't tell what a weapon he is holding there.. doesn't really look like a staff, MNK would be 2 weapons, MCH would have an aethet condensator...

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

What job was Yoshi-Ps character in that screenshot?
http://www.novacrystallis.com/wp-con...9_PARIS_13.png

Usually he's BLM, but I really can't tell what a weapon he is holding there.. doesn't really look like a staff, MNK would be 2 weapons, MCH would have an aethet condensator...

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looks like stardust rod can't tell if atma version or base

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Wasn't that about the Uznair Canals in treasure maps ?

What bugs me is how the areas are not known. Surely before heavensward we had heard of Dravania, Isle of Val, Ala Mhigo, these kind of things. And we knew about Othard / Doma.
But here it is plain unknown.

If it is on Ilsabard, do we really know so little about it?
If it is from another continent, that could be hydaelyn. (Do we know where did the Miqotes come from when they crossed the frozen seas during the Xth Umbral Era ?)
If it is in another shard, then it's ok I guess...

These areas look Light aspected (at least Ahm Araeng, Il Mehg and that pinkish area we have an artwork for). I'm in the side of "We are going in a Light imbalanced shard, and we'll learn from it so we can change things in Hydaelyn"

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we've known about Thavnir since ARR with the relic npc before Othard was even mentioned Thavnir's location is South of Ilsabard big island below Ilsabard on map it's unclouded like Sharlayan so my hope back before 4.0 was that 5.0 we visit these two or Thavnir on our way to Othard but ofc that never happened Yoshi could've just meant the canals pretty disappointing that was all we got

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

looks like stardust rod can't tell if atma version or base

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Indeed it does a bit... just a bit short, but that might be the perspective.. I'll ask one of my lala blm friends to get the i80 replica and try to do a similar screenshot for proof.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

If we create a timeline where the future is fine, we would still have no logical reason to return to the bad timeline for future MSQ purposes.

It's things like this that make me really dubious about the inclusion of time travel. It usually works fine when the plot is completely written around it, such as in Chrono Trigger, but when it's suddenly introduced into a setting as a major plot point things can get messy. Not to mention that whole Alexander questline suggested that XIV operates under the "stable time loop" principle, meaning that an attempt to change the future will actually end up causing the future to happen...though that may explain why they keep going on about how fate cannot be changed (Such in the new year's message) or embracing fate (As Y'shtola/Matoya said in the trailer).

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Good point that "future-changing time travel" doesn't really fit with creating new stable locations in other time periods. On the other hand, it could definitely work with a stable time loop - whatever we do while we're there, was always going to happen.

Of course, what it is incompatible with, is Trailer Voice Guy telling us we need to unwrite history.

But then I said from the start, I'm not convinced that we're actually going to do that just because an as-yet-untrustworthy Voice claims that we need to - and I don't think it fits with the themes of the game so far. (And particularly with the Alexander quests, having replayed them recently.)



Inescapable prophecies fit with the unchangeable nature of a stable time loop, I think. Though a good question in that case is: how specific is this fortune or prophecy? Have their exact actions been dicatated to them, or is it vague enough that by 'accepting' their fate and acting in accordance with it, they can decide the exact circumstances and retain some control over the outcome?

For what it's worth, we have at least one solid example of a card reading - the Dawn Cross, according to the lorebook (Vol.1, p.244), is one of the two most common fortune-telling methods and is "believed to provide more detailed information regarding a subject's fate" compared to the three-card Trinity. (The book and quest dialogue have more detail on card placement but what's relevant here is the resulting format of the 'told fortune'.)

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JANNEQUINARD (relaying Leveva's reading)
In the center of the Dawn Cross we have the Spear. To its left, the inverted Arrow. To its right, the inverted Balance. Beneath, we have the inverted Spire and the inverted Bole. And finally at the crown, is the Ewer.
“Though peace hath settled upon our great land, it will be along the path of coming destruction that friends new and old shall discover the bush that doth bear the fruit of knowledge and hope.”

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If that's the level of detail Urianger is getting out of his cards, that's going to leave plenty of room to get a thoroughly ominous reading, accept that it's going to happen, and do their best to turn it around.



Vagueness is the key to running a stable time loop and still letting the heroes "defy fate". The climax of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban is an excellent example - despite being present for both versions of the looped time, neither the reader nor the characters are aware of what really happened by the end of their "first time through", so they are still acting freely during their second time through.

They take action to prevent something that (they thought) happened the first time around, only to set up the circumstances that mean it never happened in the first place - while giving their past selves the impression that it did. And then ending up in the right place at the right time for Harry to save his past self, except that's not why he went there, and he doesn't work it out until the last moment.

It's really clever, it comes together perfectly, and it's a great example of how you can stage a stable time loop without giving the audience the entire story - even while they're in the middle of fulfilling the second half of the looped events.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

What job was Yoshi-Ps character in that screenshot?
http://www.novacrystallis.com/wp-con...9_PARIS_13.png

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That page isn't allowing hotlinked images.

Here's an alternate page with all the new images: https://twinfinite.net/2019/02/final...ingers-images/

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Originally Posted by Mieck

Lastly, at the risk of stirring the pot, the robed figure on the right of the artwork, with the straps and ornate bangles on the wrist... well, it's a little like the original Bard AF hands, and Bard is all about performance, which is.... maybe a bit like... dancing?

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That's quite a stretch.... but come to think of it, guess what class G'raha is?

Yeah, okay, archer rather than bard. But still.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That's quite a stretch.... but come to think of it, guess what class G'raha is?

Yeah, okay, archer rather than bard. But still.

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Well, Encyclopaedia Eorzea Vol. 1 retconned him into an archer who also sings the song of his people. Pretty sure there's a specific Job for that, but I'm drawing a blank...

(Still has nothing to do with Dancer, though he may end up in that gear anyway if I want to do a retainer respec...)

I still haven't got my head round the Alexander lore, but isn't the idea that the characters were trapped in a time loop (where the later events put in motion the earlier events required for them in the first place) and that due to Alexander being benevolent, he would not interfere?

Isn't this exactly where a being like Zodiark could differ? That is, putting aside whether he is benevolent, malevolent, or neither. Potentially sitting outside such a loop, given that he appears to have power over time.

Let's go a step further and say he can see past, present and future all at once, would he not then be able to speak of changing history, as in changing the course of actions you are engaged in now? In which case, there is no time travel, as we would usually understand it.

To me, Alexander sounded a lot like an entity overseeing a simulation and capable of interfering with what was going on inside the simulation.

I'll have to admit, I'm not a huge fan of such narratives (the Harry Potter type plot turn you mentioned) and it would potentially interest me even less than straight up time travel. It's the kind of thing I don't mind reading about in a book or the occasional game but it'd be pretty meh for me if this is what they have in store.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I still haven't got my head round the Alexander lore, but isn't the idea that the characters were trapped in a time loop and that due to Alexander being benevolent, he would not interfere?

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The plot is a time loop, but it's a single time loop, not infinite - and not directly affecting the characters.

Alexander itself is essentially a time-travelling supercomputer, able to calculate all possible futures and manipulate time so the "best" future plays out. But it's also a primal, and its mere existence is draining aether from the land, so it concludes that the actual best future is one where it doesn't exist. In the end it can't be destroyed, so to remove itself from the world, it traps itself in a self-contained time bubble - allegedly sealed forever, though there are implications that some things can still get in and out.

There's an running theme throughout the script on the idea of being able to rewind time and undo past events, but with the conclusion that it shouldn't be done.

Just to clarify, do you mean Alexander's plot?

The thing that eludes me about it is the "why" behind the whole plot - as in, why did it all need to happen in the first place? Like the creation of the stable time loop.

All that just makes me wonder how things would differ if the being in question lacked Alexander's limitation of being a primal. Still, I think there's other ways of parsing some of the time-related references which can exclude time travel altogether.

Going back to Minfilia, I have to wonder if what's going on with her is not perhaps rebirth, as opposed to being aged down. So that the body she's reborn in would plausibly look like a younger Minfilia as we know her, but is not really the same, and therefore gives the illusion that the trailer is hinting at time travel. This would align with her retention of the aspect of the Word of the Mother, and may also link into the cover art for ShB, with the DRK holding the luminescent child.

I'm also wondering if the trailer may be hinting at a time skip, given some of the narration.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Just to clarify, do you mean Alexander's plot?

The thing that eludes me about it is the "why" behind the whole plot - as in, why did it all need to happen in the first place? Like the creation of the stable time loop.

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It needs to happen for its own sake, as well as events that would change as a consequence of the time loop not happening. The Hotgo tribe, of which Mide is one of the few survivors, wouldn't exist if not for the time loop that Alexander's events take place within.

We can't observe what started the time loop or why, because we're part of it and it exists in perpetuity.

I think it's worth keeping in mind that the trailer is deliberately misleading. As in, basically anything it appears to be communicating "clearly" will almost certainly change meaning drastically as we come to understand the surrounding context.


Unless Yoshida's comments on misdirection are the true misdirection... Hmmmm...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Alpha never really does anything outside his prime directive until after the defeat of Omega-M/F. He certainly went above and beyond the scope for which he was intended, but until then he just got us to fight Omega's test subjects and then Omega itself, which is the entire reason he was created. Going on a journey was the first independent thing he willed himself to do outside of his intended purpose.

Might be why we can't Echo-talk with mammets - they have some degree of intelligence, but no real will of their own. Except maybe Vivi.

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Alpha did try to bash against the trap Omega put us in, which was the reason Midgardsormr acknowledged Alpha's will and bravery. I would put that in the same degree of free will as Maggie coming to save us when the Praetorium was blowing up.

On the topic of the cloaked figure in the Artwork - I don't really think it's G'raha Tia. They try their best not to intertwine Raid Story with the MSQ, and then again, wouldn't they have told players to complete the Crytal Tower Raids by now...?

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

On the topic of the cloaked figure in the Artwork - I don't really think it's G'raha Tia. They try their best not to intertwine Raid Story with the MSQ, and then again, wouldn't they have told players to complete the Crytal Tower Raids by now...?

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I was writing about this the other day (link), but I think if there's time travel in play and this is "Future G'raha" that we're dealing with - whether we go to his time or he comes back to ours - then it's not necessary to have completed the Crystal Tower raids. He is from a point in time where those events have already taken place, whether you have personally experienced them yet or not.

If players haven't completed the questline yet, I think it could be easily sorted out with some variable dialogue at the start - he'll recognise and greet you, because he's been through that story with you, even if you-at-the-current-time have never met him. So your character would react in one of three ways: (for those who haven't started yet) no idea why this unfamiliar person knows you; (for those partway through) confusion because you do know him but not like this; and (for those who completed it) full recognition and wanting to know how he got out of the tower.

That would lead into a customised explanation of what's going on, possibly with some "you mustn't speak a word of this to my past self next time you see him!" warnings for those who haven't finished.

My main problem with the theory of G'raha is that it hinges on that smirky mouth face, but that's not a face unique to him, that's a default face every catboy has access to. Who's to say Emet-Selch isn't using a Miqo'te body?

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Originally Posted by alimdia

My main problem with the theory of G'raha is that it hinges on that smirky mouth face, but that's not a face unique to him, that's a default face every catboy has access to. Who's to say Emet-Selch isn't using a Miqo'te body?

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Well, it's not just the smirky face, but also the purple stuff on his face/neck and arms.

Which, is best guessed at being some sort of crystalline corruption that G'raha may receive from his time in the Crystal Tower.

So far, there haven't been many other plausible theories about what the purple stuff all over the dude actually is.

I mean, any catboy player has access to that face, but there are a lot of possible combinations for each face type. With barely a dozen named male Miqo'te NPCs in the world, one happens to have that exact skintone, mouth, nose, jaw, and (if you look closely) eyebrows. For a truly new character, they would almost certainly have come up with a unique face model as they have for major players in Stormblood, rather than recycle the exact presets used by a noteworthy character from 2.X.

Either way, most of the stuff being talked about with regards to G'raha himself has come up in other threads in response to him suddenly coming up in places like Eureka and the Omega storyline, as well as the casual name-dropping Salina and Desch got in the Heaven-on-High story, almost as if they want to make sure he's back in player consciousness for some reason. It's not so much that the cover art has suddenly inspired speculation about his return, as the new art reveal seems to be in line with speculation that was already going on after the last few major patches.


(And the reason I'm so sure about the accuracy of the presets is that, like some of the ARR key visuals, this one appears to be painted over actual in-game character models. See also: The Art of Eorzea, pages 10-11.)

Unpopular opinion, but I think the stuff covering the neck and face looks more grey-ish and not really crystalline. At least for the part covering the face, I would claim it looks more like a nasty scar than crystals.

It's me or his right arm is thinner than his left ?

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Originally Posted by Cilia

It needs to happen for its own sake, as well as events that would change as a consequence of the time loop not happening. The Hotgo tribe, of which Mide is one of the few survivors, wouldn't exist if not for the time loop that Alexander's events take place within.

We can't observe what started the time loop or why, because we're part of it and it exists in perpetuity.

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I see. That way it makes it sound like it's a bit of code gone wrong, and Alexander is the debugging tool. Particularly when you say the tribe wouldn't exist otherwise; my question would be, why would it need to? However, if there's some unobserv-ed/-able causal agent it begins to make sense.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I think it's worth keeping in mind that the trailer is deliberately misleading. As in, basically anything it appears to be communicating "clearly" will almost certainly change meaning drastically as we come to understand the surrounding context.


Unless Yoshida's comments on misdirection are the true misdirection... Hmmmm...

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Indeed, I fully appreciate that. It's also incomplete in its present form.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I was writing about this the other day (link), but I think if there's time travel in play and this is "Future G'raha" that we're dealing with - whether we go to his time or he comes back to ours - then it's not necessary to have completed the Crystal Tower raids. He is from a point in time where those events have already taken place, whether you have personally experienced them yet or not.

If players haven't completed the questline yet, I think it could be easily sorted out with some variable dialogue at the start - he'll recognise and greet you, because he's been through that story with you, even if you-at-the-current-time have never met him. So your character would react in one of three ways: (for those who haven't started yet) no idea why this unfamiliar person knows you; (for those partway through) confusion because you do know him but not like this; and (for those who completed it) full recognition and wanting to know how he got out of the tower.

That would lead into a customised explanation of what's going on, possibly with some "you mustn't speak a word of this to my past self next time you see him!" warnings for those who haven't finished.

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I think given the nature of time travel in the game, it does make sense that that might be how he becomes relevant to the plot... whatever his role might be.

Read through this thread in one sitting, and was a bit amazed to see the G'raha theory postulated and catch on so fiercely. I don't see it, at all - even after the sketched-in G'raha eye marks. The stuff on the neck and face looks exactly like Au Ra scales to me, with the exception that they're gray rather than black or white. It brought to mind the discussion a while back about there being a third tribe of Au Ra (maybe more) who might come into play in the future. Perhaps this is it! I was also certain that the face was female - until I took a good look at that arm. That does not look like a female Au Ra arm; way too beefy. On the other hand, the face is way too effeminate to be a male Au Ra face. Someone discounted the Au Ra idea by noting the lack of horns, but the hood could cover up several of the Au Ra horn styles.

While it'd be nice to see G'raha again, I don't think this is it. Honestly, I also don't think it will happen, ever. The way G'raha promised to guard the sealed tower until the world was ready for its secrets was a HUGE flag, in my opinion. "When the world is ready" can pretty much be translated to "never" in any work I've ever seen it appear in. A time travel plot MIGHT be able to work around that, I suppose, but I still think it unlikely. G'raha's exit from the storyline had an all-too-familiar "we're getting rid of this character because we've told his story and having him hanging around would be inconvenient" feel to it. I detest that all-too-common sort of tidying up of loose ends, but can easily recognize it when I see it. (Was happy to see it averted with Alpha, even as easy as it would have been to have him disappear with Omega!)

I've talked about most of the other stuff in other threads, so will leave it at that!

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I don't see it, at all - even after the sketched-in G'raha eye marks. The stuff on the neck and face looks exactly like Au Ra scales to me, with the exception that they're gray rather than black or white. It brought to mind the discussion a while back about there being a third tribe of Au Ra (maybe more) who might come into play in the future. Perhaps this is it! I was also certain that the face was female - until I took a good look at that arm. That does not look like a female Au Ra arm; way too beefy. On the other hand, the face is way too effeminate to be a male Au Ra face. Someone discounted the Au Ra idea by noting the lack of horns, but the hood could cover up several of the Au Ra horn styles.

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Yeah, it's a pretty sneaky teaser for sure... Since, yes, the facial markings look very similar to Au Ra scales, but the face looks very effeminate while the arm looks quite manly.

Also, while the facial markings look like Au Ra scales, the weird stuff all over the arms do not. When most Au Ra have scales on their forearm and/or their upper arm.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

While it'd be nice to see G'raha again, I don't think this is it. Honestly, I also don't think it will happen, ever. The way G'raha promised to guard the sealed tower until the world was ready for its secrets was a HUGE flag, in my opinion. "When the world is ready" can pretty much be translated to "never" in any work I've ever seen it appear in. A time travel plot MIGHT be able to work around that, I suppose, but I still think it unlikely.

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I dunno... Trailer Voice Guy said that the Calamity that needs undoing, is "Greater than even the 7th Umbral Calamity"

If the world is ever ready for the secrets of the Crystal Tower, it'd probably when trying to stop something this powerful from destroying it... (Especially when we're actually in a spot where we're getting pretty dangerously close to 1) The world being engulfed by Light/Darkness given the effect that the First is having as well as it seeming to be setting up for some massive shenanigans with Black Rose and 2) Ascians feeling as though their plans to cause a rejoining so as to resummon Papa Zody are coming to fruition)

Not saying this means G'raha, but he's a possible candidate. Especially given the references to time travel in the trailer (Having to "Undo the Calamity" and "Rewrite History" suggests some form of travelling to the past) - Not to mention, the trailer shows lolifillia while this art shows an adult Minfillia (Some have posited it could also be Lyse, but Lolifillia is wearing the same dress as the girl in the art (Or at least, one very similar))

It could equally be some kind of new dragon femboi, though I feel that might be less likely given SB had a significant focus on Au Ra already due to the Xaela tribes.

Inb4 it turns out to be Hildibrand or something xD