Fan Fest Lore Revelations [Spoilers]

Something that came to mind was how the WoL minion describes that the WoL usually appears in the Umbral Era when they're most needed and mysteriously disappears afterward (don't quote me I have no access to the game rn).

Is Kuribu what happens to the WoL when their work is done? Dragging and dropping WoL.exe into the recycling bin as it were?

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

It's my personal prediction that this dungeon is in THE FUTURE. In the next patch, the voice that's been stealing away the Scions' consciousnesses will succeed in doing the same for the WoL, and will take us to the Bad Future represented by the Gimlet Dark. We'll then run the dungeon, and be returned to our body in the past, having witnessed first-hand the horrors we need to prevent.

That's just a guess, however!

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Thats honestly my guess too. Otherwise we would have a garlean invasion or huge attack in the last patch which would still feel quite sudden. This way they could have the WoL see the effects of the actions (even though I still dont know what we should do against that..) and still dont have to change the map at all.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Something that came to mind was how the WoL minion describes that the WoL usually appears in the Umbral Era when they're most needed and mysteriously disappears afterward (don't quote me I have no access to the game rn).

Is Kuribu what happens to the WoL when their work is done? Dragging and dropping WoL.exe into the recycling bin as it were?

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Only my guess so no proof here: Couldnt it simply be that the WoLs died? I mean they did not manage to stop the calamities so maybe they simply died there.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Well, a big problem I have with the whole "balance" shtick is that we still haven't seen any indication that it's tipping too far one way or the other (on the Source, our own world). Yes the Burn is a good illustration of what an aether-bleached (Light-flooded) world will end up like and yes we've been told time and again that primals drain the land's aether... but other than the unresolved aether readings from before Wilred was killed and the deaspected crystals Y'shtola found mirroring those from before the Calamity, we have no evidence anything strange is going on.

There are simply too many unknowns to figure out much at the moment (which was the intent).

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We've been seeing more indications of spontaneous aether depletion since the latest patch. Without veering too far into "Hydaelyn is evil territory," it's possible we've been inadvertently feeding her the land's aether as we grow stronger. It may be possible that the balance needs to be maintained between more than just two points, with the land itself as a possible third (which would also throw a wrench in the "Hydaelyn == planet" hypothesis and pave the way for more concrete answers). Man as the fourth to give it a proper second axis?

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The wording in the Shadowbringers synopsis implies to me that the WoL vs. Elidibus fight is just the start of the events that led to a calamity in another history (Presumably that of the first shard's), so I don't think things actually went bad until well into the campaign against the Garleans or after it was over.

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Shards aren't parallel worlds or alternate timelines, though. The Ascians also travel between the shards, so there isn't another Elidibus out there. Just the one.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

I really shouldn't be starting mobage conversations on a board intended for the lore...

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I'll be moving my eponymous "alt" (actually my original character from 2010) to the Primal datacenter in the next round of free transfers. Seems like a good place for Lore/other discussion.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Only my guess so no proof here: Couldnt it simply be that the WoLs died? I mean they did not manage to stop the calamities so maybe they simply died there.

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That's definitely a possibility. It's also possible the minion's description was written just with the 1.0 WoL in mind.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Only my guess so no proof here: Couldnt it simply be that the WoLs died? I mean they did not manage to stop the calamities so maybe they simply died there.

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Doesn't mesh. The WoL appearing in the Umbral Era means they are working to create an Astral Era (Like we did). The WoL disappearing means they aren't usually around when a Calamity hits.

Which does beg the question, did the 1.0 WoL mess things up by...Being Warriors of Light at that point? I mean, I don't recall having crystals for what I did of the story, but I never finished it, and I...Assume (correct me if I am wrong) that the 1.0 players who finished the story still got their first crystal the same way. I suppose all this rambling is getting at is that there were no WoL until after the Calamity. We may literally be upsetting the balance by being around when a Calamity *might* hit.

Something that came to mind after the 4.4 stuff was wondering if Bahamut was actually meant to be the Seventh Calamity, and not just something that came along, because I feel like the whole "Create Garlean Empire to create Calamity" idea kinda falls apart if the idea was to have them still pull off another Calamity. This is the first time (That I recall from when I read the lorebook) that nations actually continued to exist as they relatively were when a Calamity hit. The idea of still having planned not one, but two Calamities triggered via the Garleans...Was either just a massive case of hedging their bets, since there was no guarantee there would be a Garlean Empire post-Bahamut or a massive case of "Pulling things out of our rear."

The 7th Umbral Calamity was a bit of a weird one. Loiusioux's sacrifice meant that the destructive effect of it on the immediate surroundings was lessened a lot. So while a 7th Rejoining probably happened as usual (wall between a Shard and the Source being destroyed) it didn't slam everyone in the Source as hard as the Ascians were probably planning and hoping it would. As much as somethings got moved around, we don't see entire City-States being destroyed like in the 6th Umbral Calamity or anything like that. Which would have happened if Dalamud had fallen like it was supposed too...

This is both good and bad. Hydaelyn has confirmed that she's sent WoL to try to avert every Calamity that has happened, but that she has never been successful. The forces of good/order survived the 7th Umbral Calamity intact and are probably a huge reason why the 7th Umbral Era was so short compared to previous ones. On the flip side, the forces of evil/chaos survived as well. I'm very suspicious that the Garlean Empire never was supposed to survive the 7th Umbral Calamity. However, the smarter Ascians are never ones to look a gift horse in the mouth and probably started planning for the 8th Umbral Calamity as soon as the 7th hit. It's just that... for most Calamities, it's taken Society a long time to get stable enough for the Ascians to cause the large-scale chaos needed for a Calamity. Here, they didn't have to wait. Of course, this also means that Hydaelyn doesn't have to go find new champions for once (if you're from 1.0).

I don't understand why Hydalyn and Zodiark's struggle matter so much. It's been established there are other planets now. So are these deities just born out of the aether/lifestream that created our world? Do Ascians only care about our world? Are zodiark/hydaelyn just the guardian gods of this planet? Did Omega's homeworld have twin gods born of the aetheric sea? Dragonstar?

I've wondered the opposite thing about the Seventh Umbral and Astral eras... did they declare the start of the Astral era too soon? It seems like it to me. They defeated a military opponent and forced Lahabrea to retreat (but didn't truly defeat him or prevent him from continuing to act). All good for them, but is that really enough to declare history is out of its Umbral stage? I'm not sure it is.

I'm inclined to agree, and it makes me wonder how an Astral Era is declared. What are the criteria? Clearly an Umbral Era is declared when a Calamity happens. But what if a Calamity happens and the whole world doesn't know? Did Doma know about Dalamud falling? If they didn't, what if they still thought it was the sixth Astral Era?

Astral and Umbra eras, as far as most of Eorzea is concerened, are just ages that are named at certain points. The Ascians probably don't care at all what they are called, its just that usually the Calamities/Ardors they cause start what Eorzeans call an Umbral age, and usually the start of the next Calamity/Ardor happens when the Eorzeans enter what they call an Astral age. Because thats when society has come back.

One of the things to remember is that the events of HW happen in part because Lahabrea and Igeyorhm start trying to cause the next Calamity REALLY early. Which in part is possible because the last one ended up not being as catastrophic for the societies around at the time as it has been for every other one. The same for ARR I believe with Ultima Weapon, even if Lahabrea survived that one long enough to try again in HW.

Elidibus so far is more patient, but also is taking advantage of society, specifically the Garleans, still being around to try and start the next Calamity. Both he and Solus are also currently pushing for moving into Ala Mhigo and crushing them NOW, rather than the plodding along that Varis is doing. Which also, to me, says that the next dungeon isn't in the future. It just means that Elidibus and Solus got what they want.

Back to Astral and Umbral eras...As far as I remember they only really pertain to Eorzea due in part to this paticular continent having the most aether on the planet. While certain ages spread beyond Eorzea like the Allagans, it doesn't seem like other regions get hit by Ascian-made Calamities. Though they certainly have their own problems as we are seeing in the Four-Lords storyline for Doma. Course if Dalamud had actually hit Eorzea full-on it probably would have affected the whole word pretty badly.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

[*]Koji Fox went into the history of the Padjals, but nothing we didn't already know, and I think the implication is that for now the Padjals we see are the ones that exist currently, and the total number that ever existed is "less than you can count on three Simpsons hands" (whatever that means). I could be mistaken.

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Less than 12, Simpsons charactes have 4 fingers on each hand. I hope it means ever existed "at the same time" otherwise we're talking very few Padjali in history since we currently have just over half a dozen living ones.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

Less than 12, Simpsons charactes have 4 fingers on each hand. I hope it means ever existed "at the same time" otherwise we're talking very few Padjali in history since we currently have just over half a dozen living ones.

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If I remember correctly Padjal also have longer life-spans compared to the rest of the mortal races. Probably still been more than 12 overall but depending on how long they can live I could see there still being under 100 total throughout the existance of Padjals.

my two cents. First take note of the gremlin, kiribu and the lion beast in the trailer to me that screams amdapor. Perhaps this represents the so called flood of light. It is possible to confront this wave of light beside being being wod. This light was fought in the 5th astral era by nymians and more importantly mhachi. I suppose derplander never specked into blm or sch.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I've wondered the opposite thing about the Seventh Umbral and Astral eras... did they declare the start of the Astral era too soon? It seems like it to me. They defeated a military opponent and forced Lahabrea to retreat (but didn't truly defeat him or prevent him from continuing to act). All good for them, but is that really enough to declare history is out of its Umbral stage? I'm not sure it is.

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I always wondered about that too. Did the astral era really start there just because Minfilia declared it to be so? That seems like the sort of thing historians would argue and decide on after the fact, with the people of the time never even knowing.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

I don't understand why Hydalyn and Zodiark's struggle matter so much. It's been established there are other planets now. So are these deities just born out of the aether/lifestream that created our world? Do Ascians only care about our world? Are zodiark/hydaelyn just the guardian gods of this planet? Did Omega's homeworld have twin gods born of the aetheric sea? Dragonstar?

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In the broad scheme of the entire universe? No, their struggle doesn't amount to much. The Source, the Reflections, Hydaelyn, Zodiark, all the drama in the game are nothing more than a tiny speck of light to anyone living on Middy's or Omega's homeworlds (assuming, indeed, that anyone still lives on those worlds). However, those worlds, and presumably all others, are far too remote to be of any use. Even an impossibly high-tech entity like Omega traveled through space for so long in scrambled its memories. As far as the game's storyline goes, those worlds are completely inaccessible to us. Do those worlds have deities, like ours does? Possibly, but again, it doesn't matter; those deities, too, would be out of reach.

While life goes on (or doesn't go on) on distant worlds, THIS world is the only one that matters to the movers and shakers. The Ascians care about ZODIARK, not about some distant Dragonstar god that may or may not exist. If Hydaelyn goes kablooie, there's not some other world that her inhabitants can escape to. We need to protect THIS world. While the existence of other inhabited worlds is an interesting curiosity, it's pretty much irrelevant to the conflicts we need to deal with.

The universe might not care about the fate of Hydaelyn, but the people that live on her certainly do!

An Astra Era's start is probably a lot more up in the air then an Umbral Era start is. Calamities tend towards being very, very obvious in how they start. They are most likely world-wide too (Source-wide more like it). It's only the more recent ones that are local. Although... local in this case is like saying something that happens to all of Europe is "local" so that's not quite the word I'd use to describe a Calamity.

1st - Wind Calamity. Although not much is known about it. No one even knew what element this was until the 6th Umbral Calamtiy. This is the 1st Era of all recorded history and no one knows anything about what happened before this.

2nd - Lightning Calamity. Lots of volcanic eruptions spewed clouds of ash into the atmosphere, so thick they blocked the Sun. Lighting struck out of the clouds for an entire year, forced everyone underground. Given how bad the volcanic activity would have to be for this to be the case, the effects would have been world-wide, if not as extreme. For a modern example of this, look up up the 1991 Mt Pinatubo eruption and see how far it's effects were felt... Then look at some older eruptions like Mt Tambora in 1815 and know that there are records of even larger eruptions even further back...

3rd - Fire Calamity. The sun is said to have increased in size for a long period of time, drying out the realm. Think less of global warming and more of a global drying out. Given that this is because of the sun, it's pretty much global by default.

4th - Earth Calamity. Xande directs Dalamud to stream a vast quantity of energy into the Crystal Tower to open the way for the Cloud of Darkness. The Crystal Tower can't take the strain and discharges all the energy into the earth, causing a massive earthquake. The earthquake buries the Allagan Capital and the Crystal Tower. With the Crystal Tower gone, the Allagan Empire loses its power source and the government crumbles. At a minimum this would have effected the Three Great Continents and most likely Meracydia as well.

5th - Ice Calamity. Think the worst Ice Age ever. It's said that ice got as far south as the Sea of Jade and the Bloodbrine Sea was completely frozen over. The same is mostly likely true for anything north. That would include Old Sharlayan, all of Ilsabard, and the majority of Othard (north of Doma).

6th - Water Calamity. This is the most localized Calamity we've had yet most likely. And even then, it's not that local. The seas on both coasts of Aldenard rose and flooded most of the continent. Only the regions with tall mountains like Gyr Abania (and probably Dravania) were most likely spared. However, given that it was the seas that rose, that presents the possibility of the seas rising around the coasts of the other continents too...

7th - All Elements. This is a rather weird Calamity as the severity of it was curtailed by Loiusoix. So it's very, very, likely the devastation of it would have been bigger otherwise. It's also a rather simple Calamity in concept. The Lesser Moon Dalamud fell from the sky and impacted Aldenard. Only, there was a humongous primal in the middle of it and someone managed to slow it down so it didn't impact Aldenard as hard as it otherwise would have. Which is saying a lot. The Manicouagan Crater in Canada is probably a good example of what would have happened if Dalamud hadn't been slowed. And that's just the mundane fallout of it. Who knows what Bahamut could have gotten up to if the Phoenix hadn't been there... What did end up happening was that the aether rivers under Aldenard (and probably the rest of the planet) got shifted around and one of the moons disappeared. That alone would be noticeable literally everywhere on Hydalyn.

8th - ??? We don't know how bad this will be. But given that Aldenard is still recovering from the 7th Umbral Calamity, it's probably going to hit really, really hard.

Roegadyn lore fanatic here. I am seeing a few people who are stumped on the name of the final dungeon "The Ghimlyt Dark" and wanted to shed some light on the name. The word "Ghimlyt" I believe is actually a roegadyn term which would roughly translate into "Modestly Lit" which would make the dungeon's name "The Modestly Lit Dark" which would be a rather low profile way to describe the atmosphere of the dungeon and using a roegadyn term for it doesn't surprise me given the roegadyn presence in the area.

'Ghim' being the roegadyn word for 'Modest' as shown in the roegadyn dictionary on these forums and I am going to make an assumption based on my own exposure to roegadyn terms that 'lyt' just means 'lit'.

I don't have any speculation to add though on the subjects at hand.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

If I remember correctly Padjal also have longer life-spans compared to the rest of the mortal races. Probably still been more than 12 overall but depending on how long they can live I could see there still being under 100 total throughout the existance of Padjals.

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Padjali only began to appear after the Pact of Gelmorra during the Sixth Astral Era, right? So it's been under two millenia and for a people who live for centuries.... about a dozen doesn't seem too bad?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I've wondered the opposite thing about the Seventh Umbral and Astral eras... did they declare the start of the Astral era too soon? It seems like it to me. They defeated a military opponent and forced Lahabrea to retreat (but didn't truly defeat him or prevent him from continuing to act). All good for them, but is that really enough to declare history is out of its Umbral stage? I'm not sure it is.

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I believe the declaration of an Astral Era was a PR move on the part of the Grand Companies, and not based on any hard scientific facts. That may simply be Word of Moose, though.

Now that we have an 8th Calamity on our hands, though, I guess we can say the the entire Seventh Era lasted almost-but-not-quite 6 years, 5 of those being Umbral.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I believe the declaration of an Astral Era was a PR move on the part of the Grand Companies, and not based on any hard scientific facts. That may simply be Word of Moose, though.

Now that we have an 8th Calamity on our hands, though, I guess we can say the the entire Seventh Era lasted almost-but-not-quite 6 years, 5 of those being Umbral.

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All and all the 7th Calamity was kind of different as it was interrupted due to Louisoix preventing Bahamut from continuing his rampage. It's questionable if the 7th calamity could be viewed a full calamity at all. Though it probably had the same effect either way. Then again I suppose outside of those NPCs involved in the Coil Storyline as far as anyone knows that was the calamity regardless of how short it was compared to the others.

In regards to Astral / Umbral Eras...

What constitutes the fall into an Umbral Era is a Calamity, cut and dry.

What constitutes the rise into an Astral Era is... decidedly less so. The GC leaders declaring the 7th Umbral Era was over was, yes, little more than a PR move not based in anything scientific because there's no known scientific measurement for what marks the transition.

(This was mentioned in an interview somewhere; I can't recall which one or have a source, but I do remember this.)

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Originally Posted by Fenral

We've been seeing more indications of spontaneous aether depletion since the latest patch. Without veering too far into "Hydaelyn is evil territory," it's possible we've been inadvertently feeding her the land's aether as we grow stronger. It may be possible that the balance needs to be maintained between more than just two points, with the land itself as a possible third (which would also throw a wrench in the "Hydaelyn == planet" hypothesis and pave the way for more concrete answers). Man as the fourth to give it a proper second axis?

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Well... in fairness, conflating Hydaelyn-the-planet with Hydaelyn-the-goddess might be just a bit of a stretch. It makes logical sense, but Lahabrea speaks of them as if they are separate entities before engaging us directly in the Praetorium. It's Lahabrea so he can't be fully trusted - duly noted - but it's there.

"Like a parasite, [Hydaelyn] must be burned out if the planet is to recover."
-Roughly. Perhaps we'll see what he meant.

My original way of reaching that hypothesis was by using the crystals of IX as a base; though they can't speak, they are the terminus of all souls on a given planet. If Hydaelyn is "all made one," it would stand to reason She serves a similar purpose... perhaps the point of Calamities, then, isn't to cause planetary devastation, but mass death - create an influx of souls so great Hydaelyn simply can't process them all and the strain breaks down one of Her walls?

Hmm...

Is it me or Shadowbringers intro guitar seems a lot like a sped up Prelurde played on strings.

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Originally Posted by Rocl

Padjali only began to appear after the Pact of Gelmorra during the Sixth Astral Era, right? So it's been under two millenia and for a people who live for centuries.... about a dozen doesn't seem too bad?

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The 1st Padjal was born after the Gelmorrans made peace with the Elementals and started to found Gridania, which was about 500-600 years ago.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

Is it me or Shadowbringers intro guitar seems a lot like a sped up Prelurde played on strings.

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It parallels it, I think. I don't know if its sped up, specifically. But yeah, I hear the connection, too. :)

I personnaly considered astral era to simply start when the nation's in eorzea simply consider that beside the world has recovered from the current umbral era.
The last one being overly mitigated by lousoix simply made it very easy for the people in eorzea to recover from it.

Beside the people burned to crisp by bahamut, (mostly the people fighting) there hasn't been that many casualties considering what could have happened.

No city state collapse, no mass immigration, arguably only the people of Ishgard truly struggled as their ecosystem abruptly shifted to a polar environment. Heck it was so quick so there's a place Dragon and ishgardian are frozen in place while fighting. (If I remember right that happened soon after bahamut cataclysm)

So ... tbh if the only remaining issue eorzea has is garlemald, them yes it is an astral era.

I was digging through the History section of Encyclopedia Eorzea volume 1 (my volume 2 still says it's in Pre-Order?), and it does seem to corroborate that the Umbral Era only seems to last for as long as the calamity itself, with the Astral Era starting as soon as the aftershocks subside and people start rebuilding. The Seventh seems to be a bit of an exception in that the mitigation worked so well, it not only didn't affect the rest of the world much, but people had about 5 years to rebuild before the GC leaders decided it was safe enough to call it. Still enough to trigger a Rejoining, though.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

It parallels it, I think. I don't know if its sped up, specifically. But yeah, I hear the connection, too. :)

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The notes seem to follow the same interval, well Prelurde itself has various versions in very distinct BPMs. I wish I knew enough of musical theory to analyze the scale Soken used in it. I'm just a percussionist, can't read that much into it.

Seems to me that the female voice that is singing in the traser comes off starting on Answer's motif as well.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

(my volume 2 still says it's in Pre-Order?)

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So it's not just me who's been having issues with their order. I had to manually push my payment through on Saturday, since usually those go through just before the release date. Since then, I still haven't gotten any word on shipping though... There was a delay on my Best Of soundtrack too before that finally went out days later after the release. Wonder what the deal is.

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Originally Posted by ChaoticCrimson

Wonder what the deal is.

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Outsourcing.

Apparently there's been manufacturing difficulties of Lore Book 2 (whatever that means). So pretty much no one who has pre-ordered has had their books shipped or been charged yet. Generally, the SE store only carges you for the pre-order when the order is shipped.

We know they said that it sold out at fan-fest, so I wouldn't be surprised if the book was over-ordered and SE is now having to do a very rushed 2nd print run. And that 2nd print run hasn't finished yet.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Still enough to trigger a Rejoining, though.

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It's still pretty puzzling, to be honest. I mean, this isn't the first time Bahamut has been free to rampage, and he was able to go ham for what, fifteen minutes before Louisoix put him down? What did he do during his original summoning, sit on his thumbs? And if he's able to cause a Calamity all on his own, why did the Ascians teach the Allagans how to contain him? Don't they WANT Calamities?

I suppose it might make sense if being cooped up in Dalamud actually was making him more powerful somehow. (It certainly worked wonders in making him more super hella pissed off.) Maybe the original Bahamut Primal was badass, but nowhere near powerful enough to drive a Calamity. He needed a few millennia of channeling solar power to get swole enough for the job.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

It's still pretty puzzling, to be honest. I mean, this isn't the first time Bahamut has been free to rampage, and he was able to go ham for what, fifteen minutes before Louisoix put him down? What did he do during his original summoning, sit on his thumbs? And if he's able to cause a Calamity all on his own, why did the Ascians teach the Allagans how to contain him? Don't they WANT Calamities?

I suppose it might make sense if being cooped up in Dalamud actually was making him more powerful somehow. (It certainly worked wonders in making him more super hella pissed off.) Maybe the original Bahamut Primal was badass, but nowhere near powerful enough to drive a Calamity. He needed a few millennia of channeling solar power to get swole enough for the job.

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I mean he was imprisioned to harvest power from the sun or whatever. With nowhere for that power to go i imagine that it probably went into him. It also became a "cause one Calamity and get another for free" situation for the Ascians as if even if their original plan didn't work out they still had a mega powerful and pissed off dragon god.