Level Syncing isn't the best solution

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

Nope. Great idea actually.

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It's so great that the other leading sub-based MMO, WoW, has had balancing nightmares and issues with their own dungeons from the getgo because they implemented it poorly.

Sugoi.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

It's so great that the other leading sub-based MMO, WoW, has had balancing nightmares and issues with their own dungeons from the getgo because they implemented it poorly.

Sugoi.

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Yeah, for ONE week per month, you can go through a specific set of dungeons of their choice and last I heard, the mechanics didn't work, and the dungeons were either half of the time broken or way out of whack too easy or too difficult, or just plain.... don't work that well.

Well this thread sure has nothing to do with helping low levels and is more about high levels showing off..

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

Nope, just nerf abilities above the level of the dungeon. That easy. You can choose to do the whole rotation, but you'd be better served by doing the rotation at level. You can either nerf them so much that abilities above the cap do literally zero damage or miss, or, you can nerf them so that they don't do enough damage to be more potent than a lower level rotation.

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This is the most absurd thing I've seen in this thread. Making them do 0 damage or miss is just completely pointless, and nerfing them for every single dungeon is a huge amount of resources that would have to be spent, just so that the players would be better off doing what they were doing before all those resources were wasted.

Why? Why would the devs want to do this? You have to answer this question if you want to seriously request a feature. What would be the gain, and how many people would even want the result?


If this was to be implemented as you describe it, I would honestly kick someone for wasting my time the moment I see them doing a high level rotation. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be alone in that. I'm a pretty patient person, I've even put up with Ice Mages without kicking them. But a high level player doing this, who's just doing it to show off? Get out of my party.

I want too post something more constructive to this topic. You can't just simply nerf high level abilities as way to make them useable in low level dungeons. It may seem that simple until you start comparing the potencies of high level abilities to similar low level ones. Ill break this down so it can be better understood, Ill use Cure and Cure II as examples:

Cure has a Potency of 450

Cure II has a Potency of 700

In a palace like Tam tara deepcroft. A sync'd level 70 white mages Cure easily restores +60% of low level tanks HP, note this is just from one Cure. If the 450 potency of Cure heals that much then 700 brought by cure II will be a flat out full hp heal; So for a sync'd level 70 white mage too use Cure II. Cure would need its potency lowered too a point that Cure itself becomes pointless to cast and waste of mana. As a AST currently one cast of Benefic in Tam tara does exactly what I described while Sync'd. This is why you dont get your full tool kit when sync'd, as there are higher level abilites that when dropped to lower levels make lower level abilites useless. The Unsync feature exists so High level players can run old content with their full tool kit; sync exists so high level players can help low level players. It does not exist so high level players can show off their abilities like a fashion show!!

If you want to show off what you can do, goto limsa or Gridiana and spam your abilites that work outside of combat.

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

Nope. Great idea actually.

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I have an even greater idea. Hold on to your chair now cause you gonna fall. It's so great that it can work from the get-go!

...Ready?! Here it is. Don't use the roulette! Great, isn't it?!

You can get comparable experience and other rewards from highest level dungeon available to you at any point. And with all of your skills intact. You can even get tomestones from em, so you're not going to really lose there that much either.

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

Nope, just nerf abilities above the level of the dungeon. That easy. You can choose to do the whole rotation, but you'd be better served by doing the rotation at level. You can either nerf them so much that abilities above the cap do literally zero damage or miss, or, you can nerf them so that they don't do enough damage to be more potent than a lower level rotation.

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

Just nerf abilities above the level of the dungeon. Players who've unlocked them can either choose to use them or not.

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Then what would be the point? Why should I go through my entire level 70 BRD rotation (which things won’t live the 80 seconds it would require me to do that in a dungeon like Sastasha, Tam-Tara, or Copperbell Mines) when I could just spam Heavy Shot and do the same damage as my level 15/16/17 ARC co-DPS?

“Just have them do 0 damage or miss?”

?????

What would be the point if they did 0 damage or started missing? There would be absolutely none. I can’t even find the words to express the absurdity of this suggestion.



Inb4 “People want to practice their level 70 rotation”—there is plenty of level 70 content to practice this in. Why are they not queuing for that if they want to practice so badly?

Sure, what could go wrong with a fresh lvl 15 Gladiator paired with a lvl70 DRG who spams 5-step comboes over and over and damage CDs every 30 seconds ? :p

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Well this thread sure has nothing to do with helping low levels and is more about high levels showing off..

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Less of that and more of, "I've experienced a MUCH better play style than just 1 2 and don't want to go back to 1 2 because that is boring."

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

"I've experienced a MUCH better play style than just 1 2 and don't want to go back to 1 2 because that is boring."

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If one don't want to, then one shouldn't do it. Otherwise, the game already offers significant rewards with the roulette bonuses.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

If you don't want to, then don't do it. If you want, the game already offers significant rewards with the roulette bonuses.

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Read their post again. They're not saying that they are like that, but those in the thread who want the devs to allow a full 70 skill set so they can show off are like that.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Read their post again. They're not saying that they are like that, but those in the thread who want the devs to allow a full 70 skill set so they can show off are like that.

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I fixed my comment since it was not specifically directed at Deceptus.

But like NanaWiloh said, the roulette is meant to reward one for helping low levels, not showing off. If one want to brag, it's easy to make a video showing the rotation and the DPS number on a dummy.

Syncing on paper is a good idea, but I agree that it actually takes away a lot from the game. It didn't even take very long for it to become an annoyance. I think the first time I encountered it was during a FATE which synced me to a point where I couldn't use a few of my updated skills and had to change them back to their base forms. That particular issue was eventually fixed by lumping all the leveled skills into one skill, but the problem with sync in dungeons is that it's usually just boring.

I'd much rather have my full rotation and do level 15 or whatever damage with it. Some have pointed out that it's more work for the same result, but that is totally fine with me because the alternative is just to be put to sleep or not to play at all. If the potency rebalancing was done, it could be an option related to doing synced down content. You either select to have your potency reduced, or you choose traditional level sync.

Another alternative might be to update all past dungeons to the current level cap, but this wouldn't incentivize running content with newer players and may leave earlier content unpopulated. I know that I wouldn't go into most sub 60 dungeons if they had level 70 versions.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

Syncing on paper is a good idea, but I agree that it actually takes away a lot from the game. It didn't even take very long for it to become an annoyance. I think the first time I encountered it was during a FATE which synced me to a point where I couldn't use a few of my updated skills and had to change them back to their base forms. That particular issue was eventually fixed by lumping all the leveled skills into one skill, but the problem with sync in dungeons is that it's usually just boring.

I'd much rather have my full rotation and do level 15 or whatever damage with it. Some have pointed out that it's more work for the same result, but that is totally fine with me because the alternative is just to be put to sleep or not to play at all. If the potency rebalancing was done, it could be an option related to doing synced down content. You either select to have your potency reduced, or you choose traditional level sync.

Another alternative might be to update all past dungeons to the current level cap, but this wouldn't incentivize running content with newer players and may leave earlier content unpopulated. I know that I wouldn't go into most sub 60 dungeons if they had level 70 versions.

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I touched on this matter in a previous post, potency nerfing will not work.

SWTOR does level sync without taking away all your abilities, works fine there. Just saying...

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Originally Posted by Macleod

SWTOR does level sync without taking away all your abilities, works fine there. Just saying...

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GW2 is another, and it's quite nice.

I'm personally a bit mixed on the matter. In XIV, I do rather dislike losing a good chunk of my skills when I go into lower dungeons. Also, I tend to run a lot of roulettes, and I feel like I'd be more confident on my alt jobs if I could actually practice full rotations regardless of the current dungeon level that I'm in. If I could bring my new level 70 into something lower to practice rotations, where it's not as vital, that would be sweet.

Outside of dungeons, it is nice just being able to stomp on most mobs. I generally only venture out if I have to farm up an item, I don't think I'd want to have to start dealing with strong aggro in the open world. I can appreciate though that the combat scaling would be nice for those who do a lot of FATEs.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

I want too post something more constructive to this topic. You can't just simply nerf high level abilities as way to make them useable in low level dungeons. It may seem that simple until you start comparing the potencies of high level abilities to similar low level ones. Ill break this down so it can be better understood, Ill use Cure and Cure II as examples:

Cure has a Potency of 450

Cure II has a Potency of 700

In a palace like Tam tara deepcroft. A sync'd level 70 white mages Cure easily restores +60% of low level tanks HP, note this is just from one Cure. If the 450 potency of Cure heals that much then 700 brought by cure II will be a flat out full hp heal; So for a sync'd level 70 white mage too use Cure II. Cure would need its potency lowered too a point that Cure itself becomes pointless to cast and waste of mana. As a AST currently one cast of Benefic in Tam tara does exactly what I described while Sync'd. This is why you dont get your full tool kit when sync'd, as there are higher level abilites that when dropped to lower levels make lower level abilites useless. The Unsync feature exists so High level players can run old content with their full tool kit; sync exists so high level players can help low level players. It does not exist so high level players can show off their abilities like a fashion show!!

If you want to show off what you can do, goto limsa or Gridiana and spam your abilites that work outside of combat.

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This is fine. These skills do essentially the same thing, there is no real issue here. It actually almost the same as the current level sync which would just outright disable Cure II, it's just a soft disable (of Cure I) through stats.

The more problematic skills are non potency related, like Benediction, or Sentinel. These can just have their percentages capped, like say Bene is now 25% HP and all tank CD's below level 20 are limited to 10% reduction. Coding wise I imagine that it would be similar to level abilities like Stone I-IV.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

GW2 is another, and it's quite nice.

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GW2 works insofar as it doesn't let you just clear the whole map. A synced down level 80 is still outperforming a player at level 20 even when both get synced down to level 18 for the area they are in. The additional skills, traits and equipment upgrades make a world of difference.

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Originally Posted by Macleod

SWTOR does level sync without taking away all your abilities, works fine there. Just saying...

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Really?? last time i played swtor and have been sync down for like let say Taris i'm still stupidly overpowered to the people that havent got over the planet level

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Originally Posted by Astrus

GW2 works insofar as it doesn't let you just clear the whole map. A synced down level 80 is still outperforming a player at level 20 even when both get synced down to level 18 for the area they are in. The additional skills, traits and equipment upgrades make a world of difference.

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I apologize, this is probably on my fuzzy brain this morning, but I'm not following the bolded part up above. But yeah, the gear/learned traits/advanced jobs do make a difference. I imagine that would be the case for XIV as well, but if* tuned correctly, I don't personally see that being a huge concern.

*I realize this is a big "if". I don't have much trust in SE to fine-tune things properly. :X

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I apologize, this is probably on my fuzzy brain this morning, but I'm not following the bolded part up above. But yeah, the gear/learned traits/advanced jobs do make a difference. I imagine that would be the case for XIV as well, but if* tuned correctly, I don't personally see that being a huge concern.

*I realize this is a big "if". I don't have much trust in SE to fine-tune things properly. :X

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It's alluding to a concept I brought up earlier (either in this thread or in another discussing level syncing). There's basically two things you want to accomplish by implementing a scaling system: you either want to preserve a sense of balance between players that are at different stages of progression through the game or you just want to prevent players that have reached the elder game to come back to a low level zone and obliterate everything in sight by sneezing, thereby disrupting the questing experience of players who also need to kill those enemies.

GW2 tries to do the latter, they just don't want you to wipe out an entire event by casting an aoe. This works arguably well, depending on where you are things often still die after you whack them twice but everyone gets a chance to participate and that's Anet's chief concern. That a character with all their skill slots and traits is superior to a character that barely unlocked their first trait line and doesn't have all utility skill slots or an elite is of little concern to them.
That there's no strict holy trinity in place helps them in this regard.

SquEx tries to preserve a sense of balance between players at different stages of progression. They don't want the level 18 Lancer to feel completely useless when running Sastasha with a party of synced-down level 70s. They want the level 20 Gladiator in Halatali to be able to do their job even when the two DPS are synced level 70 Blackmages.
This is a considerably harder feat to pull off. What they chose, in addition to capping stats, is limiting the kit everyone has available in those duties to be roughly the same (± a skill due to differences in the minimum and maximum possible level for the duty).
It works debatably well to achieve their goal, due to what the stat caps are a synced down player is almost certainly going to have an edge in stats but essentially everyone in the duty is on a semblance of equal footing.

They certainly could* find a way to balance a system where you retain your kit and stay on a performance level with the people who are at-level for the duty but doing that in a way that works for everyone involved is insanely hard.

One suggestion was to simply have the abilities that the current system locks to have no function when activated. While this lets people pretend to do their rotation they are essentially wasting GCDs that would be better spend on abilities that work. It's the Impulse Drive spam situation all over only now you have to know which of your abilities are "legal" for the duty you're in.

Another suggestion was to carefully balance potencies in such a way that a whole rotation of a synced player does the same damage as the skeletal rotation of the person at level. That means veterans would have to activate a lot more abilities to be on par with the guy who only has a 1-2 combo and thus a much lower margin for error. Apart from looking pretty this solution essentially punishes players for leveling up and, personally speaking, having to push 5 buttons to achieve the effect of two would turn me off synced content even more than the current system. It would also require fine tuning of abilities for every possible level and duty, I don't even want to imagine what effect the required manpower would have on our already sparse content updates.

Then there's "to hell with balance". Let's just have veterans with all their toys be superior to lower leveled players. This is almost certainly going to lead to discrimination against anyone who doesn't have their whole kit. With the ambiguous "difference in playstyle" reason for kicking people it's not going to make it any easier for people to get their MSQ duties done while leveling up.

And finally we have the solution of giving people their (core) kit much earlier on - Redmage is a great example of how this could look like, the way the abilities flow is remarkable. The issue then is how to preserve the sense of growth you get as you advance through your levels as well as class and job quests before level 30 (and let's not go into classes that don't feel complete until 70) as the additional abilities those give would already be available to you. They'd also have to rebalance the early dungeons with the additional abilities in mind but that's a minor concern if they'd be willing to go this far.

In an ideal world we'd have a system that lets players retain their abilities while keeping things balanced and fun but if I have to choose between the system we have now and one of the other solutions I can see SE actually implementing I'll begrudingly take my skeletal rotations.

*and my faith in their ability to actually get it right approaches 0

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Originally Posted by Fayt1203

Really?? last time i played swtor and have been sync down for like let say Taris i'm still stupidly overpowered to the people that havent got over the planet level

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Well I was really just referring to how they level you down and don't take away abilities...but since you mention it, using open world planetary things isn't really a good comparison because the open world level sync still puts you at a higher level than intended for the specific planets' content, so of course you're going to feel overpowered. It's better in dungeon (flashpoint) type content there, which I think for me is where it really is a drag here...nothing like queuing up for a leveling roulette in your 50s or 60s and getting stuck doing Sastasha or something...oh yay I have 2 abilities, this'll be fun! :D

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Originally Posted by Macleod

Well I was really just referring to how they level you down and don't take away abilities...but since you mention it, using open world planetary things isn't really a good comparison because the open world level sync still puts you at a higher level than intended for the specific planets' content, so of course you're going to feel overpowered. It's better in dungeon (flashpoint) type content there, which I think for me is where it really is a drag here...nothing like queuing up for a leveling roulette in your 50s or 60s and getting stuck doing Sastasha or something...oh yay I have 2 abilities, this'll be fun! :D

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Can understand that ;) I really dont hate the system we have now but there is always room for a improvement.If they would implement level Sync and don't take away abilities and have it perfectly balanced i would not complain :p

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Originally Posted by Astrus

Then there's "to hell with balance". Let's just have veterans with all their toys be superior to lower leveled players. This is almost certainly going to lead to discrimination against anyone who doesn't have their whole kit. With the ambiguous "difference in playstyle" reason for kicking people it's not going to make it any easier for people to get their MSQ duties done while leveling up.

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Or we can realize that dungeons don't matter for much other than leveling up and the community stance is largely faster they get done the better. I think the FFXIV community, which is one of the best I've seen (with a few exceptions), can handle themselves properly.

This, IMHO, is another example of the FFXIV developers wanting it their way, not our way.

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Originally Posted by Astrus

And finally we have the solution of giving people their (core) kit much earlier on - Redmage is a great example of how this could look like, the way the abilities flow is remarkable. The issue then is how to preserve the sense of growth you get as you advance through your levels as well as class and job quests before level 30 (and let's not go into classes that don't feel complete until 70) as the additional abilities those give would already be available to you

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100% agree with this. When I was leveling RDM there was no way anyone else other than a RDM was going to keep up with me by just the sheer fact of how well it was designed. Every DPS should have a decent AoE early. If nothing more than a role ability.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Smartphone online games are not really in the same basket as PC/console ones though. Otherwise we could just call FF Brave Exvius, Record Keeper etc or even Pokémon Go an MMO...

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It's a PC game.....

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Because you kept stressing it like it was some huge feat and one of your points were disputable as what's the "best" is pure opinion.

Also what's the 3rd mmo? Because SE only has 3 mmos and the 3rd one is I believe Dragon Quest, which isn't Final Fantasy.

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Read again.
Someone said that there is already another FF MMO that does storytelling better than FFXIV.
I said that there isn't.
You replied what you replied. Next time you reply, have context please.


Also, for the millionth time, FINAL FANTASY Type-0 Online. Read people.

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Originally Posted by Spiroth

Read again.
Someone said that there is already another FF MMO that does storytelling better than FFXIV.
I said that there isn't.

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Again, that's disputable, you keep saying it isn't but all of that is purely opinion

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Also, for the millionth time, FINAL FANTASY Type-0 Online. Read people.

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That's not what people consider an mmo, which is why if you google mmos by square enix (which is what I did when I saw your comment) only three comes up, one of which isn't FF.

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Originally Posted by OurMom

Again, that's disputable, you keep saying it isn't but all of that is purely opinion



That's not what people consider an mmo, which is why if you google mmos by square enix (which is what I did when I saw your comment) only three comes up, one of which isn't FF.

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1) Your point was that "it isn't a huge deal because few FF MMOS". Now it changed to "Your opinion derp". :/
2) It's an MMO. How else must it be said lol. FINAL FANTASY Type-0 Online is 100% an MMO.

Offically? Because last I checked the company doesn't count it as one.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Offically? Because last I checked the company doesn't count it as one.

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Final Fantasy TYPE-0 Online was developed by Perfect World, not Square Enix. Square Enix is the publisher. If we count that, then they publish Dragon Quest X as well, and very much consider it an MMO.

As for the TYPE-0 Online itself...Perfect World develops MMO's. Press, reviewers etc. also consider it an MMO. The reason being rather obvious. It's a multiplayer only, server-based game. It's not a peer-to-peer multiplayer. Multiplayer is not "an option" either. It's the entire game. It's no different than FFXIV duties, really.

Though Square Enix DID develop an MMO fantasy team vs team game some time ago...but it failed terribly and was canceled. I don't remember its name anymore though.

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Originally Posted by Spiroth

It's a PC game.....

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It was made purely for the smartphone market but did have a PC port. It still is not in the same basket as FFXI or XIV, seriously. And as some mentioned, it's not completely developed by SE so stop putting it under the same umbrella. SE currently has 2 main stream MMOs, FFXIV and Dragon Quest, (as well as FFXI which is still going). But again if you want to include Type 0, we should also include Dissidia Omnia, Brave Exvius etc, they are all played online by millions of players, therefore MMOs.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Final Fantasy TYPE-0 Online was developed by Perfect World, not Square Enix. Square Enix is the publisher. If we count that, then they publish Dragon Quest X as well, and very much consider it an MMO.

As for the TYPE-0 Online itself...Perfect World develops MMO's. Press, reviewers etc. also consider it an MMO. The reason being rather obvious. It's a multiplayer only, server-based game. It's not a peer-to-peer multiplayer. Multiplayer is not "an option" either. It's the entire game. It's no different than FFXIV duties, really.

Though Square Enix DID develop an MMO fantasy team vs team game some time ago...but it failed terribly and was canceled. I don't remember its name anymore though.

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Funny since the little I was able to look up about it nothing mentioned it being labeled as a mmo. With Dragon Quest X SE has stated that it's an mmo. Even Yoshida the few times he's talked about it has called it that. Anyway doesn't matter as it's not part of the main topic.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Final Fantasy TYPE-0 Online was developed by Perfect World, not Square Enix. Square Enix is the publisher. If we count that, then they publish Dragon Quest X as well, and very much consider it an MMO.

As for the TYPE-0 Online itself...Perfect World develops MMO's. Press, reviewers etc. also consider it an MMO. The reason being rather obvious. It's a multiplayer only, server-based game. It's not a peer-to-peer multiplayer. Multiplayer is not "an option" either. It's the entire game. It's no different than FFXIV duties, really.

Though Square Enix DID develop an MMO fantasy team vs team game some time ago...but it failed terribly and was canceled. I don't remember its name anymore though.

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Can you tell me what reviewers specifically are calling it an MMO? All I'm finding is "multiplayer action rpg" which is not an MMO.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

I want too post something more constructive to this topic. You can't just simply nerf high level abilities as way to make them useable in low level dungeons. It may seem that simple until you start comparing the potencies of high level abilities to similar low level ones. Ill break this down so it can be better understood, Ill use Cure and Cure II as examples:

Cure has a Potency of 450

Cure II has a Potency of 700

In a palace like Tam tara deepcroft. A sync'd level 70 white mages Cure easily restores +60% of low level tanks HP, note this is just from one Cure. If the 450 potency of Cure heals that much then 700 brought by cure II will be a flat out full hp heal; So for a sync'd level 70 white mage too use Cure II. Cure would need its potency lowered too a point that Cure itself becomes pointless to cast and waste of mana. As a AST currently one cast of Benefic in Tam tara does exactly what I described while Sync'd. This is why you dont get your full tool kit when sync'd, as there are higher level abilites that when dropped to lower levels make lower level abilites useless. The Unsync feature exists so High level players can run old content with their full tool kit; sync exists so high level players can help low level players. It does not exist so high level players can show off their abilities like a fashion show!!

If you want to show off what you can do, goto limsa or Gridiana and spam your abilites that work outside of combat.

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Premise is flawed. With this argument, no one would use Cure even unsynced. Regardless, as Cure easily restores +60% of low level tanks HP, they'll function nearly the same no matter how they're used. The White Mage will wait until the tank is low and use their Cure I or Cure II to make sure they don't die, and then resume DPS'ing (or not). All that changes is how far they let their tank drop, and heaven forbid they let their tank drop even lower than usual and end up letting their tank die on accident. In the end you get increased performance, which isn't a bad thing, which is another flaw in your premise, that things going faster and smoother is somehow a bad thing.

To begin with, Cure II isn't exactly an ability people are clamoring to use in early dungeons. They're talking about things like Draw, Jump, Blood Weapon, Deliverance, and other abilities that drastically change how you play the job if you have those abilities available or not.

In your eyes it may be showing off, but in other people's eyes it's refusing to put the training wheels back on when you can ride the bike just as well as anybody else.

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Originally Posted by Spiroth

Read again.
Someone said that there is already another FF MMO that does storytelling better than FFXIV.
I said that there isn't.
You replied what you replied. Next time you reply, have context please.


Also, for the millionth time, FINAL FANTASY Type-0 Online. Read people.

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You can't argue that people aren't reading when you're trying to pawn off a mobile game as an MMO and they're not even CLOSE towards the same genre tropes, expectations, or stipulations involved.

Online != MMO.

MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online.

When you say MMO, you are talking about a "massive" amount of people (100+) in the same persistent game world.

A game like Warframe is not "Massively Multiplayer" (or at least it wasn't until Plains of Eidolon came out and even then that's debatable) because usually you get 1-4 Tenno in one mission and everybody sits in a lobby while they're not in a mission. That's just an Online game, much like Diablo or Borderlands.

An MMO game is where you interact with a game world that hundreds of other players also occupy and you will randomly see these other players during the course of play.

Mobile games typically don't have that, they usually have lobbies and matchmaking from my understanding.

It's been a bit since I've played, but I'm pretty sure EverQuest II lowers the potency on your skills when you sync yourself down to a certain level. You retain the abilities, but they're balanced for output at that level. It works really well and it's not game-breaking because skill ranges are set so you don't overlevel content.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Can you tell me what reviewers specifically are calling it an MMO? All I'm finding is "multiplayer action rpg" which is not an MMO.

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https://mmoculture.com/2016/07/final...d-at-chinajoy/
http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Andro...ws.asp?c=70360


https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...lfantasy&hl=pl

Just check tags for these two:
https://www.gry-online.pl/gry/final-...-online/z028cc

https://mmorpg.org.pl/news/zobacz/na...iez-na-pc-tach


Frankly, it's hard to actually find ANYTHING about this game. Most searches seem to show the TYPE-0 or HD versions...It didn't help that somewhere on its way it was rebranded into "Awakening", either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwTh5rC_ZE8

Looks close enough to an MMO to me that we'd be splitting hairs, but if this is an MMO it's also fair to say that a number of other games are as well. Doesn't really matter though, 'cause it also looks like complete garbage and shouldn't be directly compared to XI or XIV.

But if you want to, uh, this is by far the worst of the three? And XI is still the best. So yeah. I don't even remember what dude's original point was anymore.

The whole thing about whether Type-0 was an MMO or not was actually irrelevant to what his point was anyway, lol.