Are the developers of XIV out of touch?

Honestly, I'm fine with the motorbike. You like the design or you don't, but lore-wise I think it makes sense.

At least, much more sense than a flying T-rex or a flying elephant...

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

At least, much more sense than a flying T-rex or a flying elephant...

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Hey now they perfectly lampshaded the T-rex's flight ability.

According to the physics of Hydaelyn, what allows something to fly is how your body processes wind aether, having wings is not necessary

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Originally Posted by Remedi

According to the physics of Hydaelyn, what allows something to fly is how your body processes wind aether, having wings is not necessary

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And if you do have wings, you might be using them to puff out aether rather than use them more traditionally, like moogles.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

The Omega facility in Aysz Lla or however you spell it had freaking holographic computer displays, and a giant flatscreen monitor built into the wall that's better than the stuff we have IRL!

Motorcycles were invented in the 1900s and they didn't have computers back then.

They got machineguns (last boss of Doma Castle has one), cannons, chainsaws, missiles, grenades and freaking VTOL jet aircraft (in Meridianum for example).... but a motorbike? Nope, we can't have any of THOSE around!

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Can't use logic on these immersion idiots. It's Final Fantasy fantasy only or bust to them.

It's not like ff has always been full of mixing of different themes........oh wait......

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Originally Posted by Remedi

According to the physics of Hydaelyn, what allows something to fly is how your body processes wind aether, having wings is not necessary

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That's what they said on the T-rex description, yes. That the wind aether changed it,but it would still needs some physical change to it. Or else, the whole theory of evolution wouldn't apply to Hydaelyn and birds wouldn't needs wings to fly. It's most likely that a being or a machine would need tremendous amount of aether to be able to fly without wings or proper device.
And don't tell me the namazu are flying the mikoshi with sheer willpower alone x)


Tough it's out of topic, it's probably a really interesting discussion and something to see on the lore forum.

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Originally Posted by Slirith

Can't use logic on these immersion idiots. It's Final Fantasy fantasy only or bust to them.

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It's still interesting to see if something fits the lore. If you just accept everything cool without caring about it, you will just end up with something really idiotic like space demons flying in galactic ships trying to take hold of a well of power or something like that.

It honestly comes down to this choice:

a) Yoshi-P and team continues the regular patch release schedule with constant toss ups of content for different slices of players and staggers QoL additions/upgrades over the course of years.

OR

b) Game content is stagnated for 6-10 months or longer while they overhaul everything and implement what you're asking for, focusing only on QoL and 0 content. When the patch drops to add these changes, there will either be no content or very little content similar to the x.0 expansion release but without the 10 levels of MSQ and side story.

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

That's what they said on the T-rex description, yes. That the wind aether changed it,but it would still needs some physical change to it. Or else, the whole theory of evolution wouldn't apply to Hydaelyn and birds wouldn't needs wings to fly. It's most likely that a being or a machine would need tremendous amount of aether to be able to fly without wings or proper device.
And don't tell me the namazu are flying the mikoshi with sheer willpower alone x)


Tough it's out of topic, it's probably a really interesting discussion and something to see on the lore forum.

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Well aether does affect the physiology of a creature as we've seen with what happens if you happen to bathe too much in a primal's eather

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

And don't tell me the namazu are flying the mikoshi with sheer willpower alone x)

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Not when they are hanging on for dear life. :D

In-game explanation is of a similar bent to how the flying chair (made by Alchemists) works - enough Cloudsbreath added during construction (intended to make it easier/light enough to carry for the Namazu) had the additional effect of aspecting it enough to wind that it can fly.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Well aether does affect the physiology of a creature as we've seen with what happens if you happen to bathe too much in a primal's eather

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Hmm, then why is the T-rex not showing any change? I mean, okay I can let it pass for the elephant since he can fly thanks to "magicked carpets affixed to its back". It's stupid but I can look away from this one.

Here's the item description from XIVDB :

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Alarmed scholars report that the “T-Rex”—as it is called by those short on ink—has gained the power of flight through continued exposure to the Isle of Val's turbulent aether.

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Wouldn't it make more sense if he some physiological modification if he was exposed so much to it? And wouldn't it take multiple generation before one of them gain the ability of flight?


Side note : I won't think the game is "unplayable" because of it. I just like to know how things tie to the lore. If the explanation is just "The T-rex can fly with the power of cool" then fine. I'll be slightly annoyed, but I can live with it.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Not when they are hanging on for dear life. :D

In-game explanation is of a similar bent to how the flying chair (made by Alchemists) works - enough Cloudsbreath added during construction (intended to make it easier/light enough to carry for the Namazu) had the additional effect of aspecting it enough to wind that it can fly.

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Oh yeah, I remember them saying something about making it "lighter". Which is probably why they are hanging to it, now that you mention it...

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

Honestly, I'm fine with the motorbike. You like the design or you don't, but lore-wise I think it makes sense.

At least, much more sense than a flying T-rex or a flying elephant...

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The only reason why I'm not okay with a flying elephant is we haven't seen any wild ones...where are the Ananta getting them from?

OP, tbh i felt this since HW. Nothing new really happens ever. It just recycled mechanics, formulas since ARR launch.

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

Hmm, then why is the T-rex not showing any change? I mean, okay I can let it pass for the elephant since he can fly thanks to "magicked carpets affixed to its back". It's stupid but I can look away from this one.

Here's the item description from XIVDB :


Wouldn't it make more sense if he some physiological modification if he was exposed so much to it? And wouldn't it take multiple generation before one of them gain the ability of flight?


Side note : I won't think the game is "unplayable" because of it. I just like to know how things tie to the lore. If the explanation is just "The T-rex can fly with the power of cool" then fine. I'll be slightly annoyed, but I can live with it.
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We don't really know because they haven't gone on a lenghty explanation on how it happens, they have just done a quest about it to explain the change on the pirates of sastasha and that was it we don't know exactly how much aether it takes to create mutations or how long it tales to be able to fly, we don't even know if it's something that can be easily learned, we do know however that a good win aetherconduction can effortlessly make island float though

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I didn't say SE were better at communicating. Doing more communication doesn't automatically mean said communication is actually good. You can say a lot without saying anything new or useful at all. As was aptly demonstrated by the latest live letter, personally I found a lot of it was mere repetition and too many questions had the same answers.

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You said other developers are silent and SE wasn't. That's very heavily implying that you believe one is better than the other. You've since clarified your position though so we can move on from this though.

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And I was also trying to dispel this myth some people believe that SE experience an outstanding epidemic of server and engine limitations compared to other mmos when the truth is all dev teams experience them daily. It just so happens SE openly mention theirs very very often.

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You didn't dispel anything and it's not a myth, it's real. SE uses that excuse by a staggering margin for many technical requests the playerbase requests. Everyone knows that other companies suffer from it. That's common sense.

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And to dispel this idea that I'm a white knight. snip

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Agreed. I will retract my statement that you are a white knight. You've successfully demonstrated the ability to have a rational discussion and cite logical examples to clarify your position. I respect that.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

while adding less dungeons during each expansion than XIV is currently on track to add even with the scaled back 2-1-2-1 pattern (assuming 5 major patches like before, we are still on track to add more in one expansion than Blizzard has ever managed with any of WoW's patches).

You're right, they weren't at the the content decline point we are currently at - they were already below it.

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Hey Buddy, haven't seen you on MMO champ in a while.

Just wanted to chime in on this one - while it's true that FF14 has more dungeons (by end of expac) than WoW does, I'm not sure that we can simply measure quantity vs. quantity and call it even.

FF14 dungeons are exceptionally linear and follow the exact same formula each time. To add to it, they're extremely narrow in focus (i.e. rewards, target playerbase, etc.), lack depth, and are released 1 to 2 at time.

WoW dungeons start you off with a lot more variety and are considerably more deep, as well as offering scalable challenges and rewards for multiple player types. Not only that, but they aren't identical in format or layout.

So while it is a factual statement that FF14 produces MORE dungeon content than WoW, I'm not sold that it's a fair comparison.

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A commendable effort...

But one that sounds significantly less impressive when you consider that it's from one version of the game's engine to a new version of the same engine, and much/most (and possibly all) of the work actually developing that engine was done by an entirely different company.

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Upgrading your games codebase from UE3 to UE4 is not some one script and done affair. It's a complete redesign of the games code...

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Originally Posted by Mhiro

It honestly comes down to this choice:

a) Yoshi-P and team continues the regular patch release schedule with constant toss ups of content for different slices of players and staggers QoL additions/upgrades over the course of years.

OR

b) Game content is stagnated for 6-10 months or longer while they overhaul everything and implement what you're asking for, focusing only on QoL and 0 content. When the patch drops to add these changes, there will either be no content or very little content similar to the x.0 expansion release but without the 10 levels of MSQ and side story.

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This is pretty reductive - but it's not far off. If SE developed more deep/robust content they could mitigate some of this risk. It would allow times when they devote more effort to QoL to not be so painstakingly shallow for the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

Wouldn't it make more sense if he some physiological modification if he was exposed so much to it? And wouldn't it take multiple generation before one of them gain the ability of flight?

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Worth noting:

There seems to be two possibilities - either they have been around for a while and developed the ability, as Eureka - once known as the Isle of Val - was described during those quests as being a fairly dangerous place in the first place, and part of why they chose that region...or what happened to it - the event that registered magicks related to dimensional compression - caused a significant enough shift that creatures on the island were simply warped in ways that changed them without requiring several generations of genetic development.

Aiite so it comes back to the very same thing: You open up with derision. That does not seem pragmatic if you want to deliver a message to the Devs. Yes, you can have criticisms, but if its "Hey Devs are out of touch cause theyre doing things I hate like implementing some garbage bike!", youre not going to have as good luck. People who complained about removing Need, yeah some of them were pretty "WTF Outrageous", but you know, it was probably people being straightforward in their position and giving appropriate feedback. Mind you, they probably removed it to address an issue they saw and realized it made things worse.


But heres what you did:
-Disregard their responses to inquiries you have by overs implification (and implying it was very aloof as well).
- Put down an collab event because "probably short lived".
- Mogstation items that are immersion breaking, particularly the "Ugly, immersion breaking motorcycle". Something people did actually request a few times.
- Dismissing these things as "Theyre nice, but not substantial!" and "These dont get people excited anymore!"

Then you proceed to talk about what the focus should be (based on your tastes).

You pretty much slammed them for not doing things you want, particularly in character customization. You want to convey a message, maybe making your thread title "Are the Developers of XIV out of touch?" and then slamming them a bit and putting down their projects isnt a great way to do it.

I have to point out too: For every large patch, theyve pretty much been adding glamour items and haircuts for people. New mounts which add to the flavor of your character. Armors and weaps too. And yet "They dont care about customization," in your eyes. I wonder if youve even considered their end, to be frank. Ive pointed out that adding more indepth customization can really break things in the game unless its done right, and that takes time. And yes, theyre running on an older engine because thats part of the point of recooping costs from FFXIV 1.0. You think MMOs just rebuild their engines every year like its nothing?

Im gonna stick to my guns on this: Sounds like youre dissatisfied. Sounds like youre not getting what you want. And if you have to ask if the Devs are listening, then I imagine you already have a pessimistic outlook on the game. Afterall, youre saying theyre hemorrhaging subs for years and nothing has changed, so they must not be then. So why are you still playing? The writing on the wall, according to you, is they dont listen or care. So why are you spending your money on something you dont enjoy.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

FF14 dungeons are exceptionally linear and follow the exact same formula each time. To add to it, they're extremely narrow in focus (i.e. rewards, target playerbase, etc.), lack depth, and are released 1 to 2 at time.

WoW dungeons start you off with a lot more variety and are considerably more deep, as well as offering scalable challenges and rewards for multiple player types. Not only that, but they aren't identical in format or layout.

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Last time I ran dungeons in WoW, they were also pretty linear. Some do allow for doing some bosses in a random order, but many are just as linear. I also don't see them as being any more or any less deep - you have trash to deal with, occasionally with a mechanic that needs to be handled, and then bosses with 3-4 major mechanics.

Not sure where you're getting that dungeons in FFXIV are identical in layout either - pretty sure each map is different. Often linear (as often as WoW's are, especially post-Vanilla content - the ones from the classic game are the only ones that really had the open variation, but that kind of design has been missing from new dungeons for about 11 years now), but that's nothing new for either MMO.

Speaking of identical - funny that of the two games, only one offers dungeons that are the "hard mode" of previous versions that are literally the same location, with the exact same bosses (occasionally you get that one extra tucked in a corner) and trash, and where everything just now hits harder and bosses maybe get a new ability or two...versus reimaginings of the location into a sort of "sequel" version of the dungeon that often leads to new spots on the map and has brand new bosses.

That all being said, you've missed the context of my comment, which was related to the amount of content (given that the person I was quoting specifically mocked what they saw as a decline with the suggestion that we'd be getting one new dungeon and one fight in savage, it's exceptionally clear they are talking about amount). WoW drops something like 5-7 with the expansion, keeps them around with additional difficulty modes (that are, again, the same dungeon with boosted enemies - they use that to great effect with their mythic system, but that's not what is being discussed - remember, the comment was about decline in amount, trying to switch it to a subjective discussion of quality just confuses the issue), and if those players are lucky they'll get 1-2 more in another patch before the 8 or so month lull before the next expansion (in a good year, which they've struggled to get back to after multiple year+ gaps).

As for the UE4 upgrade comment - I admit that I did undersell the effort on the part of the developer needed, but that was in response to what I feel was an overselling on your part. Bringing up that they are updating to a new engine, in a thread where talking about making upgrades to a game are common, and NOT clarifying that it's not an in-house engine and that another developer made the engine they are working with (in both cases, UE3 and UE4) implies that SQEX is holding back on us by not doing something similar.

When they'd have to redo their own engine/make a new one AND redo the code, you have a situation that isn't nearly as comparable as you seem to want to imply.

I'm putting my answers in spoiler, since this subject, tough interesting, is really out of topic.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

The only reason why I'm not okay with a flying elephant is we haven't seen any wild ones...where are the Ananta getting them from?

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Well, according to the tooltip, marids can fly thanks to a "magicked carpets affixed to its back". And those carpets are made by the Ananta, so we probably wouldn't find any wild flying elephants out there.

Still, your point hold for the tyrannosaur as we don't see any wild one in Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

We don't really know because they haven't gone on a lenghty explanation on how it happens, they have just done a quest about it to explain the change on the pirates of sastasha and that was it we don't know exactly how much aether it takes to create mutations or how long it tales to be able to fly, we don't even know if it's something that can be easily learned, we do know however that a good win aetherconduction can effortlessly make island float though

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Interesting, so that's kind of a "grey zone" in the lore, right now?

Still, aren't Sastasha's pirates another story? I thought they were modified by the direct intervention of the primal Leviathan. And on this, it wouldn't be the first time a primal modified someone or something. If memory serves, Odin is doing the same thing with the player that kills him. But mutation by exposition to a large source of aether? That's kind of a first, I think.

And for the islands, you are probably talking about the Churning Mists and the Sea of Clouds. And it's true that they have large amount of crystals that generate a lot of wind aether, preventing them from falling. If I remember well, Bismark was actually feeding on those islands. But the tyrannosaur do not have those kind of crystals in it, so the mystery as to why it can fly still hold for me.


And as Penthea said, we don't see any wild T-rex flying around in Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Worth noting:

There seems to be two possibilities - either they have been around for a while and developed the ability, as Eureka - once known as the Isle of Val - was described during those quests as being a fairly dangerous place in the first place, and part of why they chose that region...or what happened to it - the event that registered magicks related to dimensional compression - caused a significant enough shift that creatures on the island were simply warped in ways that changed them without requiring several generations of genetic development.

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I need to see the quest text again, but didn't Krile said that those monsters weren't here before the incident of Val happens? (Plus, how can living things survive a dimensional compression...?

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

Well, according to the tooltip, marids can fly thanks to a "magicked carpets affixed to its back". And those carpets are made by the Ananta, so we probably wouldn't find any wild flying elephants out there.

Still, your point hold for the tyrannosaur as we don't see any wild one in Eureka.

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But we don't see any wild elephants of the same model, this is my point. As for the Eureka dino, I didn't mention is as I honestly could not recall for sure if it's a mob in that zone or not.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

While skipping over some that have been asked would have been nice, these were the questions the community upvoted the most. If people want to attempt to get more hard hitting questions, they need to delve into the questions thread, put in a question and/or upvote one that was already asked.

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I don't think they focus to much on how liked a question is. I thinks that's why a lot of people have stopped asking them and just given up entirely.

Some of the earlier live letters for example had questions with well over 500 likes.
and they got ignored for a question that might have had 6 or 8 likes...

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Originally Posted by Dzian

I don't think they focus to much on how liked a question is. I thinks that's why a lot of people have stopped asking them and just given up entirely.

Some of the earlier live letters for example had questions with well over 500 likes.
and they got ignored for a question that might have had 6 or 8 likes...

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Exactly, they hand pick the questions to fit the theme of the Live Letter.

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

snip

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Wellll.....

If I remember correctly what mose told me, primals when desummoned leave a leftover of their aetheric essence and that's how ppl get tempered without their direct intervention, the pirates were modified in theory by that aetheric mass.

The islands floars because they are rich of concentrated wind crystals, but crystals are charged with wind aethers they do not provide aether directly, what I meant is that having a way to work wind aether can allow for islands to fly as such if somehow you manage to make your body work with said aether you can acquire the trait, it's also possible that wings are born because of the effect of the aether on you too.

Now the T-rex is essentially a nova species since as such is described in the mount log, though it's correct to say that the absence of any kind of T-rex in Eureka is uuuuuh.

Anyway I think was Ethys Asher that debated the wind aether beign responsible for the ability to fly in hydaelyn first or so I remember hearing, but as far as aether and it's effect on ppl, that is still abit up to debate since we don't really have a clear vision on primals and tempering for example, I think we are debating this in the lore section too atm

Mounts well are any of the mounts apart of the cannon almost all of them are obtain via non-canon missions/trials only Normal versions of fight canon & don't drop mounts & beast tribe quest aren't really all canon since just repeatable quest, think only flying canon mounts are Magitek Armor "Original from story" & Chocobo did we get any other mount in MSQ? cause rest are just fluff mounts there for variety.

As for questions asked they not only picked awful questions but asked them in terrible ways that Yoshi gave non answers to because I don't think he understood what being asked on some of the questions. Although hate the engine excuse it's a convenient excuse for so many years now that they could've fixed the bloody engine had set aside a small team 4 years ago to do just that.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

The only reason why I'm not okay with a flying elephant is we haven't seen any wild ones...where are the Ananta getting them from?

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If you read the elephant mount description it actually tells you the elephant itself isn't flying, instead the carpet on its back gives it that ability. So basically flying carpet.

Edit: And it was answered on the one page I didn't read right at the top.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Aiite so it comes back to the very same thing: You open up with derision. That does not seem pragmatic if you want to deliver a message to the Devs. Yes, you can have criticisms, but if its "Hey Devs are out of touch cause theyre doing things I hate like implementing some garbage bike!", youre not going to have as good luck. People who complained about removing Need, yeah some of them were pretty "WTF Outrageous", but you know, it was probably people being straightforward in their position and giving appropriate feedback. Mind you, they probably removed it to address an issue they saw and realized it made things worse.

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I want to start off by saying that I'm not particularly defending the OP's position. I think SE is out of touch, but picking on character customization is, in my opinion, not the best way to go about making your case. That said... development teams are supposed to be professional enough to see through the emotional arguments. Whether a suggestion is made in a friendly manner or in a harsh one should be utterly irrelevant to the CM team and/or the development team. The only question is whether or not feedback has sufficient validity so as to warrant a fix or a change. If SE's employees aren't operating in that way, they're in deep shit. You're certainly entitled to dislike negative attitudes if you'd like, and criticize people over them, but there's no objective argument to really support your position here.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

I have to point out too: For every large patch, theyve pretty much been adding glamour items and haircuts for people. New mounts which add to the flavor of your character. Armors and weaps too. And yet "They dont care about customization," in your eyes. I wonder if youve even considered their end, to be frank. Ive pointed out that adding more indepth customization can really break things in the game unless its done right, and that takes time. And yes, theyre running on an older engine because thats part of the point of recooping costs from FFXIV 1.0. You think MMOs just rebuild their engines every year like its nothing?

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This would be a fair point if not for the fact that FFXIV did certain things better in the past, within its own engine. I know the butt slider is a bit of a joke at this point, but it's not like the request came out of thin air: they mangled the character models for ARR. They didn't have to, but they did. Similarly, they really mangled the texture quality. I'm not sure why, but they did. I have a degree of sympathy with developers of these long-running MMOs, because it can't be easy managing the visuals managing the customization options as newer games surpass you time and time again, but it's a bit eye-opening to see that aspects of FFXIV's character models, and all of its textures, have gotten worse over time rather than better. That shouldn't happen.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Im gonna stick to my guns on this: Sounds like youre dissatisfied. Sounds like youre not getting what you want. And if you have to ask if the Devs are listening, then I imagine you already have a pessimistic outlook on the game. Afterall, youre saying theyre hemorrhaging subs for years and nothing has changed, so they must not be then. So why are you still playing? The writing on the wall, according to you, is they dont listen or care. So why are you spending your money on something you dont enjoy.

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OK, soap box time for me.

I hate these statements. I hate these statements.

Why are you making the huge assumption that the OP doesn't enjoy FFXIV? Just because someone is complaining, doesn't mean they don't enjoy something on the whole. I get annoyed every time the fucking gardeners come by my apartment window when I'm in the middle of a meeting (I work from home); that doesn't mean I want to move out of my apartment, or out of apartments in general. In point of fact:

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

I love this game, and I really try not to be too harsh on it.

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Whoops. Egg on your face, much? Reality is nuanced. It's almost certain that, when considering anything in the world, there will be things people like, and things people don't like. Take any MMO, or videogame, or piece of entertainment on the market, and I bet there will be things you don't love about it, and even dislike about it. That's why it's naive, and incredibly judgmental, to assume that negative comments equate to overall dislike of something, or that positive comments equate to overall liking something.

So please, stop suggesting that people quit the game just because they're getting angry at the developers. It doesn't add anything of substance to any discussion I've seen on the forums, and it's easily interpreted as an arrogant, dismissive brush-off (you're with us or you're against us type of bullshit). It's no better or worse than the 'white knight' term that gets thrown around right and left.

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

Honestly, I'm fine with the motorbike. You like the design or you don't, but lore-wise I think it makes sense.

At least, much more sense than a flying T-rex or a flying elephant...

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What lore reason?

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

What lore reason?

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The reason of "Aether" and "Magitek".
BTW Magitek is Magic Tech.
Garleans can't use Magic but they found a way to use Aether through Magitek.
The bike is lore friendly. Maybe not aesthetically fitting to Eorzra but it can fit Garlemald.

I think this thread derailed from the original purpose.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

The reason of "Aether" and "Magitek".
BTW Magitek is Magic Tech.
Garleans can't use Magic but they found a way to use Aether through Magitek.
The bike is lore friendly. Maybe not aesthetically fitting to Eorzra but it can fit Garlemald.

I think this thread derailed from the original purpose.

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That's a fair point i guess. I wasn't aware they said anything about the lore behind introducing this later.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Wellll.....

If I remember correctly what mose told me, primals when desummoned leave a leftover of their aetheric essence and that's how ppl get tempered without their direct intervention, the pirates were modified in theory by that aetheric mass.

The islands floars because they are rich of concentrated wind crystals, but crystals are charged with wind aethers they do not provide aether directly, what I meant is that having a way to work wind aether can allow for islands to fly as such if somehow you manage to make your body work with said aether you can acquire the trait, it's also possible that wings are born because of the effect of the aether on you too.

Now the T-rex is essentially a nova species since as such is described in the mount log, though it's correct to say that the absence of any kind of T-rex in Eureka is uuuuuh.

Anyway I think was Ethys Asher that debated the wind aether beign responsible for the ability to fly in hydaelyn first or so I remember hearing, but as far as aether and it's effect on ppl, that is still abit up to debate since we don't really have a clear vision on primals and tempering for example, I think we are debating this in the lore section too atm

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Well, that's interesting. The T-rex and some other points still leave me skeptical, but let's leave it at that for now. We already strayed way too much from the topic.

Thanks for the discussion tough, I'll check the lore forum sometimes soon :)

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

What lore reason?

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As Riardon pointed out, you can pretty much justify everything that have technology in it. Garlemald is a really advanced country, and the Allagans got so much technology that they were almost gods-like. I wouldn't even be surprised if we saw TVs and game systems in FFXIV.



All right, back on track now.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

OK, soap box time for me.

I hate these statements. I hate these statements.

Why are you making the huge assumption that the OP doesn't enjoy FFXIV? Just because someone is complaining, doesn't mean they don't enjoy something on the whole. I get annoyed every time the fucking gardeners come by my apartment window when I'm in the middle of a meeting (I work from home); that doesn't mean I want to move out of my apartment, or out of apartments in general.

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Exactly. In fact, most people on the official forum most certainly love this game, whether they criticize it or defend it.

In my posts, I can be really cynical toward S.E., sometimes showing disappointment for the direction the game is taking, or even showing hostility toward Eureka for what it is, but I still love this game and hope the better for it.

And I dare say that if someone really hated FFXIV, or didn't care enough about it, this person probably wouldn't be here posting in the first place.

So many off topic posts x). Maybe if mounts have so much to discuss it would be better to open up their own topic?

Anyway:

I honestly have not pity for the devs about the questions and I find it a bit rude to react so much to them. Maybe some of those that post questions, that have been asked for more often, are from new people or they believe that they are not answered enough? Either choose different questions or just give us straight answers. If you dont want to do Ishgard housing just say no. They knew for quite some time that people wanted housing there and said that we cant have them now because a war is still going on..thus people believed that this means that we will get them after HW. Yet instead of giving us housing there (or at least apartments) they just jumped straight to Shirogane. And now suddenly a new housing district is difficult to do...then why not serve the long time wishes for Isghard first? (Which would make sense since we greatly helped them) Heck they could have even just introduced personal instanced housing there..So for me its no wonder that such question are often asked..and reacting to that in the way Yoshida does is imo not that professional.

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

Exactly. In fact, most people on the official forum most certainly love this game, whether they criticize it or defend it.

In my posts, I can be really cynical toward S.E., sometimes showing disappointment for the direction the game is taking, or even showing hostility toward Eureka for what it is, but I still love this game and hope the better for it.

And I dare say that if someone really hated FFXIV, or didn't care enough about it, this person probably wouldn't be here posting in the first place.

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I 100% agree with that. I care for FF14 even if I complain a lot. If I completely hated it or dislike it I would simply stop playing the game. (Because why would I pay money for something that I truly dislike?) I just see that it has a lot of potential and at the same time I get the feeling that the devs wont change it much for whatever reason thus I let my voice be heard quite often because I really hope that I wont have to leave the game behind. (And if the continue to do so in 5.0 and their patches I will be gone) Its quite funny..I had a ingame friend that never liked to listen to any negative word about the game. And yet I am still playing while that person just left and might not come back ever again.

I would be interested in stopping the cycle of alternating 3-parter raid series on odd and even numbered patches that last 2 years together.

Instead start doing different unique raids on each patch that are not part of a series chain. That way people who don't like certain themes can look forward to something entirely different each patch.

Start mixing loot around instead of trials almost always giving weapons, alliance raid always giving armor, etc.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

*snip*

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This is the matter of Final Fantasy XIV, but not only for raids...
We all know what will mainly be in 4.4, but we are waiting after 4.35 and 4.36
3.0 and 4.0 are same, so much of us are thinking 5.0 will be a third time the same thing.


And who would say i am dumb thinking the 4.2 will get 4 raid8 bosses, with a story that follow the 5.0 raid8. New tomestone, 2 dongeon (1 fully new, and 1 that is a rework from a "old" one) and primal? and Sure, some Hildibrand quests! How surprising
Even for Itemlevels we can see a patern that allow us to have idea of the ilvl we will be able to get at 5.4...

Yoshida found a recipe that is clearly not bad. and use it everytime. The Dev Team need to understand we want to have some real surprise. But when we know what we will get on each patches before they spoke about it... How get surprise?

yes, no one thought the room of the new POTD would be bigger, No one know who will be the 5.1 primal (we just know we will get one) but and all those things just aesthetic matter? The game can have wonderfull music, perfect stories, magnificient ennemies and environnement, it wont change anything about the boring feeling...

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Last time I ran dungeons in WoW, they were also pretty linear. Some do allow for doing some bosses in a random order, but many are just as linear. I also don't see them as being any more or any less deep - you have trash to deal with, occasionally with a mechanic that needs to be handled, and then bosses with 3-4 major mechanics.

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Very true that MOST are linear. However, that's a big difference from ALL. For instance, Legion has 13 dungeons (I don't count VH), of which almost a third of them have open ended design. Not only that, but even in linear dungeons there's often some clever navigation and not a literal hallway.

Regarding Depth there are things like:

• Meta Achievements
• Optional events/paths
• Scaleability impacting how encounters go

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Not sure where you're getting that dungeons in FFXIV are identical in layout either - pretty sure each map is different. Often linear (as often as WoW's are, especially post-Vanilla content - the ones from the classic game are the only ones that really had the open variation, but that kind of design has been missing from new dungeons for about 11 years now), but that's nothing new for either MMO.

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They're all just hallways. You know it. I know it. The only ones that aren't are the 1.0 dungeons. Remind me again, how well are they received by the community? Have there been any since ARR?

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Speaking of identical - funny that of the two games, only one offers dungeons that are the "hard mode" of previous versions that are literally the same location, with the exact same bosses (occasionally you get that one extra tucked in a corner) and trash, and where everything just now hits harder and bosses maybe get a new ability or two...versus reimaginings of the location into a sort of "sequel" version of the dungeon that often leads to new spots on the map and has brand new bosses.

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Can't argue with that. It's a good feature.

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That all being said, you've missed the context of my comment, which was related to the amount of content (given that the person I was quoting specifically mocked what they saw as a decline with the suggestion that we'd be getting one new dungeon and one fight in savage, it's exceptionally clear they are talking about amount).

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I didn't miss it, I just didn't think discussing strictly quantity as a good discussion point. I felt that if FF14 released every single dungeon boss from SB and made them savage raid bosses with no retuning people could say oh you have more bosses than WoW, but really there'd be a staggering quality difference. (To be fair I wasn't super impressed this expansion with raid boss design outside of maybe 10 or so total examples).

Speaking strictly personally - I feel like there is a decline in content (even though I don't think there actually is). If that makes sense. It feels worse than it did before, because the same thing that worked 4 years ago, isn't exciting enough to keep working today, again all IMO.

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As for the UE4 upgrade comment - I admit that I did undersell the effort on the part of the developer needed, but that was in response to what I feel was an overselling on your part. Bringing up that they are updating to a new engine, in a thread where talking about making upgrades to a game are common, and NOT clarifying that it's not an in-house engine and that another developer made the engine they are working with (in both cases, UE3 and UE4) implies that SQEX is holding back on us by not doing something similar.

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It's tough to quantify. As someone with experience working with a staggering legacy codebase of a fortune 500 company I know some of the issues SE runs into. That said, I also know that having control over the engine behind the scenes allows for a ton of insight into how to improve/update/replace it. Improving an outsourced solution is not always as easy. I don't have enough info to draw a conclusion either way unfortunately, but wanted to point out that another company is doing it, and that it was a requested feature for a while now.

Seems that from the denkegi e3 interview that we will only get an upgrade in the graphic engine and the with that the character customization if FF14 runs another 10 years from now..thus if it runs more than 15 years..

Interviewer: You briefly mentioned something about the graphics engine during the Q&A. Is there a possibility you'll be changing it in the future?

Yoshida: Like i said during the live letter, let's say we were going to continue FFXIV for 10 years. Then i assume there will be a time where we do so (update the engine), but i don't even know if i'm still going to be the producer and director at that point.

If we're talking about continuing our service 10+ years from "now", i feel like the current graphics will be half baked. One of the selling points is "FFXIV characters are cute/cool looking" and if that is lost in the future, we can imagine losing a pillar to bring in new players. If the game continues for 10 more years, that is when "Even if it means poaring in an enormous amount of resources, it will be better for the long run for FFXIV" and that's all about i can say now. There's a possibility we can revamp the character creator at the same time in that situation, since we will probably change the modeling and drawing.


(Also I found it a bit much how the RPG part in 4.3 was truly the hidden content and that it was something that no other MMO did..yeah right..someone pointed out another MMO that already did it years ago.

Yoshida: Also, we had a "never seen before in an MMO" test case we added, where hover for spoiler and we call it the "RPG mode". That was a surprise we didn't reveal in the trailer and we got a lot of positive responses on that too.)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Yoshida: Also, we had a "never seen before in an MMO" test case we added, where hover for spoiler and we call it the "RPG mode". That was a surprise we didn't reveal in the trailer and we got a lot of positive responses on that too.)

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It... cannot be...

/)_-

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Seems that from the denkegi e3 interview that we will only get an upgrade in the graphic engine and the with that the character customization if FF14 runs another 10 years from now..thus if it runs more than 15 years..

Interviewer: You briefly mentioned something about the graphics engine during the Q&A. Is there a possibility you'll be changing it in the future?

Yoshida: Like i said during the live letter, let's say we were going to continue FFXIV for 10 years. Then i assume there will be a time where we do so (update the engine), but i don't even know if i'm still going to be the producer and director at that point.

If we're talking about continuing our service 10+ years from "now", i feel like the current graphics will be half baked. One of the selling points is "FFXIV characters are cute/cool looking" and if that is lost in the future, we can imagine losing a pillar to bring in new players. If the game continues for 10 more years, that is when "Even if it means poaring in an enormous amount of resources, it will be better for the long run for FFXIV" and that's all about i can say now. There's a possibility we can revamp the character creator at the same time in that situation, since we will probably change the modeling and drawing.

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I think that's more of a "wait for Playstation 5" type answer. He's not saying it would have to be 10 years specifically. He's just saying that hypothetically, if the game keeps going that long they will likely do it at some point, but it's not like something that's going to happen in 5.0. It would be part of a big graphics overhaul, and they aren't just going to start cramming faces in there now.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I would be interested in stopping the cycle of alternating 3-parter raid series on odd and even numbered patches that last 2 years together.

Instead start doing different unique raids on each patch that are not part of a series chain. That way people who don't like certain themes can look forward to something entirely different each patch.

Start mixing loot around instead of trials almost always giving weapons, alliance raid always giving armor, etc.

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This would be great. When 4.0 released and the ananta primal dropped accessories I thought maybe they were going to begin switching things up a bit, but it see,s to have been a one time thing.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

(Also I found it a bit much how the RPG part in 4.3 was truly the hidden content and that it was something that no other MMO did..yeah right..someone pointed out another MMO that already did it years ago.

Yoshida: Also, we had a "never seen before in an MMO" test case we added, where hover for spoiler and we call it the "RPG mode". That was a surprise we didn't reveal in the trailer and we got a lot of positive responses on that too.)

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Huh... Didn't WOW made this since Lich King or Cataclysm? I mean, even during Legion's leveling, there's quite a number of quests that did that already...

That 4.3 final quest was fun to play, but that's clearly something that I saw before.

It is either a misunderstanding on the part of the translator, or Yoshida has a serious need to review the MMO market and it is extremely worrying for the future.

The author of that essay said that he made a mistake and corrected it in never seen before in OUR MMO

directly from the reddit thread
Yoshida: Also, we had a "never seen before in our MMO" (edited: he said we haven't done it in "our MMO")
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._bad_news_for/