(Rant Post) Why Does It Feel Like Giving Advice Is Evil?

To no one in particular:
No matter how experienced you are in playtime and/or content completed, you are not an authority figure. You are the exact same rank as the guy who started a couple weeks ago, boosted up his character, and is running something for the first time. You are his peer. Nothing more. That will never change. My advice is to keep that in mind before you decide how to approach someone.

I guess for me it depends on the tone of the advice and who it’s coming from. My FC friends tend to give me advice, but I’m fine with it as I know them and how they type normally. :)

I don’t think it’s hard to give friendly advice and not make it appear harshly on text.

Unfortunately most advice seems to be given in the heat of a situation where the person giving the advice is frustrated and the person receiving it is probably annoyed that they are failing and can’t clear the content, either because they feel themselves that they are not good enough or they are expecting to hide and be carried through it. :)

You think it is an "advice", others perceived it as an "opinion". In a fight, there is no confirmation by Square Enix to indicate if you were giving the best strategy. When you give an advice, it is still something that you do often, and it works for you. It doesn't mean that it will work for me or the other 7 people.

By giving me advice, you are unintentionally telling me that my way of doing the fight is "not preferred by you". Maybe it is our way of communicating, the vocab choice that makes other players not wanting to participate.

Try not to be offended or angry or lose belief because I don't accept your advice. Trump is advicing us to build a wall. I have never build a wall, I don't know if that is the best strategy, so I do not want to try that strategy at this time. When I realize that I want to try the wall-strat, I will look for Trump and ask how to do it.

I play tennis at a fairly competitive level (USTA 4.5) and I regularly get unsolicited advice from random people watching my matches, my opponent, or anyone in between.

It's called people sharing a hobby (in my case tennis). Giving advice is something people do in these situations. Gaming is 100% no different. We all share the hobby and there will always be someone who knows more than you so no matter how awful advice is presented be an adult and accept it with grace and weigh it's accuracy/relevancy. That skill will serve you infinitely more IRL than learning to rage because someone said something negative about you.

I once played a guy who was clearly a scumbag 5.0 sandbagging (nearly undefeated in the 4.5 division) and after he whooped my ass literally free, he had a few tips. He didn't hold my hand and say it's ok baby here's what you do, he said, your running forehand is a big weak spot in your game. Either get set earlier or develop that tool so it doesn't get abused so easily and walked off the court.

I learned a pretty filthy defensive forehand shot that has won me a ton of points since then. The bottom line here is that if someone offers you unsolicited advice you are the one who chooses your reaction, not them. Do you act like a petulant child or an adult?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnhJack

You think it is an "advice", others perceived it as an "opinion". In a fight, there is no confirmation by Square Enix to indicate if you were giving the best strategy. When you give an advice, it is still something that you do often, and it works for you. It doesn't mean that it will work for me or the other 7 people.

By giving me advice, you are unintentionally telling me that my way of doing the fight is "not preferred by you". Maybe it is our way of communicating, the vocab choice that makes other players not wanting to participate.

Try not to be offended or angry or lose belief because I don't accept your advice. Trump is advicing us to build a wall. I have never build a wall, I don't know if that is the best strategy, so I do not want to try that strategy at this time. When I realize that I want to try the wall-strat, I will look for Trump and ask how to do it.

---

There are certain ways to do mechanics and how rotations work no one needs SE's confirmation for that. If someone explains you the mechanics and gives you tipps for your rotation because you do things obviously wrong, you should take the advice because this person wants to help you.

Comparing people who help inexperienced players (who obviously need help when they fail completly in mechanics and/or rotations) with trump is a freakin insult. But it shows very good what type of player you are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilan

There are certain ways to do mechanics and how rotations work no one needs SE's confirmation for that. If someone explains you the mechanics and gives you tipps for your rotation because you do things obviously wrong, you should take the advice because this person wants to help you.

Comparing people who help inexperienced players (who obviously need help when they fail completly in mechanics and/or rotations) with trump is a freakin insult. But it shows very good what type of player you are.

---

Ya, there is no issue of me being honest to the community. I do not accept any advice unless I specifically ask for it. You can be Christiano Ronaldo, and try to teach me how to shoot a ball the way you like it. But I like to shoot it a different way. Doesn't matter what I do with my rotation, as long as we clear it, it's fine, with me. If not, I'll do my own research.

Advice is a gift. And if I want to use, I will use. If not, I throw it in the trash.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

I play tennis at a fairly competitive level (USTA 4.5) and I regularly get unsolicited advice from random people watching my matches, my opponent, or anyone in between.

---

but you are a professional, sorted into a group of professionals only. Your motivation is much different than someone who plays for fun. A person who plays for enjoyment isn't really going to care about self improvement compared to someone who stakes some of their identity on playing. Its just usually in sports they sort all the enjoyment people out in grade school, even.

(which is bad because now we all watch sports instead of playing them)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

A person who plays for enjoyment isn't really going to care about self improvement

---

Then why do the same people care about being kicked from raids when they underperform and are not needed therefore they get removed and replaced?

If you don't care about your performance, you shouldn't care about being kicked either. This is an MMO, raids are a team effort, if one refuses to learn, that's fine, get out of the party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

I play tennis at a fairly competitive level (USTA 4.5) and I regularly get unsolicited advice from random people watching my matches, my opponent, or anyone in between.

It's called people sharing a hobby (in my case tennis). Giving advice is something people do in these situations. Gaming is 100% no different. We all share the hobby and there will always be someone who knows more than you so no matter how awful advice is presented be an adult and accept it with grace and weigh it's accuracy/relevancy. That skill will serve you infinitely more IRL than learning to rage because someone said something negative about you.

I once played a guy who was clearly a scumbag 5.0 sandbagging (nearly undefeated in the 4.5 division) and after he whooped my ass literally free, he had a few tips. He didn't hold my hand and say it's ok baby here's what you do, he said, your running forehand is a big weak spot in your game. Either get set earlier or develop that tool so it doesn't get abused so easily and walked off the court.

I learned a pretty filthy defensive forehand shot that has won me a ton of points since then. The bottom line here is that if someone offers you unsolicited advice you are the one who chooses your reaction, not them. Do you act like a petulant child or an adult?

---

Same can be said for Advice givers, when your advice is rejected or unused how you behave followng that speaks loads. Do you act like an adult and move on or like child and throw a fit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnhJack

Ya, there is no issue of me being honest to the community. I do not accept any advice unless I specifically ask for it. You can be Christiano Ronaldo, and try to teach me how to shoot a ball the way you like it. But I like to shoot it a different way. Doesn't matter what I do with my rotation, as long as we clear it, it's fine, with me. If not, I'll do my own research.

Advice is a gift. And if I want to use, I will use. If not, I throw it in the trash.

---

Good that i will never end up with you in my party because i don't like people who are ungrateful and completly self centered. You show that you don't even have one bit respect for the people you play with.

*Embraces being a grouchy old man*

It's because people are too sensitive these days. Everything is always an "attack" even if it's just a mild suggestion. I used to try like you too, don't bother now though. I just suffer through.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

I play tennis at a fairly competitive level (USTA 4.5) and I regularly get unsolicited advice from random people watching my matches, my opponent, or anyone in between.

It's called people sharing a hobby (in my case tennis). Giving advice is something people do in these situations. Gaming is 100% no different....

---

Yes it is. You were playing against an opponent. We play as a team. If you are playing on a team and competitive by all means, throw the advice. But, I hardly believe a dungeon to be classified as competitive. Like I said before, it depends on the situation. If you are in a static group, by all means teach. If you are running a dungeon with randoms you may want to ask before you start preaching.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilan

respect for the people you play with.

---

you have this backwards. you are playing with me not me with you.

i don't know you or care, worry about yourself not me, you have two options vote kick or take a penalty.

I've stopped offering suggestions on how to progress through whatever long ago. People just don't care. It's less hassle to stay silent and let them continue to be stupid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crystal_Raven

Then why do the same people care about being kicked from raids when they underperform and are not needed therefore they get removed and replaced?

If you don't care about your performance, you shouldn't care about being kicked either. This is an MMO, raids are a team effort, if one refuses to learn, that's fine, get out of the party.

---

well, being kicked for any reason isn't fun, and people have to process that. I'd argue people who play for fun over time just ignore savage, because it isn't fun at all, its so srs business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnhJack

Ya, there is no issue of me being honest to the community. I do not accept any advice unless I specifically ask for it. You can be Christiano Ronaldo, and try to teach me how to shoot a ball the way you like it. But I like to shoot it a different way. Doesn't matter what I do with my rotation, as long as we clear it, it's fine, with me. If not, I'll do my own research.

Advice is a gift. And if I want to use, I will use. If not, I throw it in the trash.

---

You are the kind of player who should be shunned. Though, to be fair, you're shunning yourself, and no one else.

It's the world social media has created.
It's so easy to just get into an echo chamber of being told how right you are about everything that there is absolutely no tolerance built up for being told how you can improve and even the smallest tips get taken like direct attacks

even have a couple people like that in my FC, get vote kicked out of things all the time but it's everyone else in the world at fault

OP, the reason why people don't appreciate your advice is because you're a lalafell. Lalafell are just kids.

If you really wanted to be taken seriously, you must be a Roegadyn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Super_Bee_Brian

OP, the reason why people don't appreciate your advice is because you're a lalafell. Lalafell are just kids.

If you really wanted to be taken seriously, you must be a Roegadyn.

---

I think this is ignorance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ruf

I think this is ignorance.

---

The sarcasm was lost on you, it seems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The sarcasm was lost on you, it seems.

---

Logic & self thinking was lost on you it seems.At least Super_Bee_Brian seems to think for hisself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ruf

Logic & self thinking was lost on you it seems.At least

---

Mmmm, yeah okay. :rolleyes:

Some people want to play better other feel it is a game and they can play how they want. The later often don't want advices.
I am part of the later but like getting better so I don't mind. It also how the person comes across with the info.
If they are OMFG do you even know how to play your damn job use Fire 3 then fire 1 a bunch... IE lower levels not max level.
VS
I see your rotations isn't optinmal, I play blm main would you like tips?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiyahArp

well, being kicked for any reason isn't fun, and people have to process that. I'd argue people who play for fun over time just ignore savage, because it isn't fun at all, its so srs business.

---

You'd be surprised how many terrible players try to step in savage. I always ask them why are they here when their performance is not good enough for extreme, let alone savage. The response is almost always "because i want to", which is OK, if you're going to drag the party down and make the rest of us pick up your slack, i will not hesitate to remove that person from the party. It's always fun to see who the party considers is more needed, a good healer, or a subpar DPS with a mouth on him that's holding everyone back.

Tip: It's never going to be the healer that gets kicked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crystal_Raven

Tip: It's never going to be the healer that gets kicked.

---

this is so true its depressing there has been several times where i keep dying from unavoidable raid wide aoes or various other things in which the way you live through is have a healer heal you then i get blamed for the healers fuck ups and get kicked
granted I seem to end up with bad healers way more then is normal but still

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pyro2hell3

this is so true its depressing there has been several times where i keep dying from unavoidable raid wide aoes or various other things in which the way you live through is have a healer heal you then i get blamed for the healers fuck ups and get kicked
granted I seem to end up with bad healers way more then is normal but still

---

Unlucky, and to be fair that's just rude on the healers part. The only DPS players I remove from parties are the ones that are just bad, constantly keep dying, low damage and refuse to learn.

That's why i said a good healer, unfortunately it's difficult to tell the difference between a good healer and a bad healer if the rest don't know the raid too well to know which attacks are entirely the healers job to heal through and which can be avoided, it makes it rather tricky. A lot of bad healers abuse their position of being a rare species as well.

Shame you're not on my server so we can jump in raids together.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

The bottom line here is that if someone offers you unsolicited advice you are the one who chooses your reaction, not them. Do you act like a petulant child or an adult?

---

I know I'm gonna regret jumping into this debate but, there is another facet to this. These people are not required or obligated to listen or take said unsolicited advice and they can easily and politely turn the advice down. I've had people I try to help as a mentor politely turn my advice down and ask to be allowed to learn at their own pace. At that point, it became my choice on how I choose to react, and I choose to act respectfully of their wishes and move on.

Everyone is different, plays for different reasons and overall has different priorities. There will always be bad players beyond help, who work to do the bare minimum and nothing but. There will always be folks who struggle even when given helpful advice. There will always be jerks who snap at you but there will also be folks who are respectful too. I find it for more rewarding and a better use of my energy, to focus on those who are respectful and want to be helped, then get angry over those who don't want to be help and decide to scream at me for trying to help. We can't save everyone.

I also think it is a mentality thing, I think we focus so much on those who screech at us for trying to help that it skews our perception of how many actually do. I find when I look at the numbers, there are far more people who have either listened to my advice or explanations, then there have been folks who screamed at me for trying to help. It's like when you go through a road with a lot of traffic lights, you focus more on the times you get all reds then when you get all greens because all red gets you angry and it has a bigger impact on you then the passive and nice all green moments. If that makes any sense.

I guess what I’m trying to say in the end is, don’t give the folks who yell at you for trying to help the time of day in your mind. It’s not worth it and hurts in the long run, I know that sounds over simplified but, it’s not. Just, don’t give jerks the time of day and remember the cool folks who are respectful.

Anyways, that’s about it from me. Back to my lurker cave!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Super_Bee_Brian

OP, the reason why people don't appreciate your advice is because you're a lalafell. Lalafell are just kids.

If you really wanted to be taken seriously, you must be a Roegadyn.

---

I do RP as a thirteen year old...

Wait this is starting to make sense. Crap.

Because "offering friendly advice" is the oldest of the harasser's excuse.

Nobody needs "friendly" advice in the form of telling someone it's their fault you've just wiped in your last boss when you are in a party with 6 more people looking at your chat.

People naturally get defensive over harassment even if it's poorly disguised as "friendly advice". And in the very rare case you really are trying to help and being tactful with a person that is making a mistake, you can blame their possibly bad reaction on the terrible reputation earned through insults and bad behaviour from most of your so called "friendly advice givers" who won't hesitate to shame and ridicule anyone who stands on their way.

The "People refuse to learn" is garbage. People just have different aims, aspirations and capabilities. Lack of empathy truly is a thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Usho

Majority of players can't take advice or when you give them advice they get butthurt and think you are telling them what to do, and as a result they lash out at you because they know you are better than them and they know you are right, but tiny brains can't process that due to ego.


Just let them be bad. They'll learn the hard way.

---

Bit of advice my man; head to FFLogs.com, hide your logs and then give it the 'I'm better' chat. Works better that way.

Even if I was a great player, I'd feel like an arrogant, narcissistic jerk offering unsolicited advice and thinking I was being some benefit to the community by doing so. I'd feel like I was overstepping my authority, which I actually do not possess. After all, despite any accomplishments this mythical great player version of me may have, she is still just another player without any rank over anyone else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tanathya

Players are usually bad because they don't give a flying eff.

---

Exactly. Depending on the day, I’m one of them. Some days I just don’t care and others I’m very serious. But meh it’s whatever. People will play how they want. I’m baffled and amazed at some of the power personalities here who feel they have the right to tell someone how to play. In my life experiance these people have major insecurities about themselves or their real life and use gamin as a forum to do what they are to cowardly to do irl. Ouch....that sounded harsh . Let people play how they want!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nihility

It's the world social media has created.
It's so easy to just get into an echo chamber of being told how right you are about everything that there is absolutely no tolerance built up for being told how you can improve and even the smallest tips get taken like direct attacks

even have a couple people like that in my FC, get vote kicked out of things all the time but it's everyone else in the world at fault

---

I blame global warming .....

Naw, if they're wasting my time and won't listen to advice and continue to waste my time by not doing their job at the 3rd wipe, then it's time for the good ol boot.

lol @ these unsolicited advice nonsense.

I'm gonna chime in I have been in OP's position before. I have very nicely asked people to use certain skills or why they don't use others and been railed on instantly for it. I asked a fellow bard why he was using no songs at all and he blew upon me over how it was wasted cooldowns on trash packs... we have 100% uptime =/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Linx0r

Exactly. Depending on the day, I’m one of them. Some days I just don’t care and others I’m very serious. But meh it’s whatever. People will play how they want. I’m baffled and amazed at some of the power personalities here who feel they have the right to tell someone how to play. In my life experiance these people have major insecurities about themselves or their real life and use gamin as a forum to do what they are to cowardly to do irl. Ouch....that sounded harsh . Let people play how they want!

---

You're absolutely right. This game is filled with group content where we all come work together to meet a common goal, so we should all learn to get along. If others in our group think they can help us out, and thereby help out the group, maybe we should listen to their advice and at least give it a try to see how it goes instead of attacking them for no reason. And if we're not ready to be team players, maybe we should just stay out of group content until we can act like adults and learn how to negotiate. After all, who are we to tell others how to play?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Linx0r

Exactly. Depending on the day, I’m one of them. Some days I just don’t care and others I’m very serious. But meh it’s whatever. People will play how they want. I’m baffled and amazed at some of the power personalities here who feel they have the right to tell someone how to play. In my life experiance these people have major insecurities about themselves or their real life and use gamin as a forum to do what they are to cowardly to do irl. Ouch....that sounded harsh . Let people play how they want!

---

Apparently my assistance is a power personality.

So I guess I'll use one of the excuses some of the people that are like my issue say, in my own way. I've been told before they can play how they want because I don't pay their sub. They also don't pay mine, so why do I have to spend time babysitting instead of playing the game? Because when I did decide to go healer, and get 2 Ice Mages, that's literally what it was.

Also, honestly, I don't care how you play outside of group content. At all. That's your time. It's when it disrupts group play, or makes a more basic piece of max level content take 50% longer to complete, that I get irritated at it. I actually want to know how Blizzard I only is fun, or how only the Full Thrust combo on DRG is the bee's knees. Or standing there for 4.5+ seconds hard casting verthunder on RDM constantly is interactive.

Just my 2 cents on the matter, I usually don't offer advice unless asked or if I see something being done wrong like a mechanic or something and try to clarify for those who need it.

For the most part other players take the advice fairly well save for the odd person out who screeches back that they know what they are doing and tell me to shut the f up, then I either give it a few more tries to see if things improve and proceed on, or just leave/kick depending on the level of aggro being put out.

The absolute worst had to be a time where I was trying to help a DPS who stated he was new to Temple of Qarn Hard with the second boss, after 2 wipes I said that everyone needed to focus the huge cactus add before hitting the queen so we could move on and the BRD completely lost it, yelling about how entitled and snooty I was acting, then resorting to petty insults about my "fat" Femroe character. Needless to say I left after saying screw it and gathered for the duration of my penalty.

But otherwise I think its a "your mileage may vary" scenario. :)

I appreciate advice if i'm not doing well. If it wasn't for some people giving it to me me back in stone vigil when I played blackmage in ARR I don't think I would ever have gotten it to lvl 50 otherwise. So thank you to people who taught me about rotations. Probably wouldn't have been here without them.

There are good ways to phrase things and bad ways to phrase them.

"Your DPS is really low, you should be doing this instead" is rarely going to be seen and friendly and helpful. It's also not an offer of advice, it's giving the advice whether the other player wants advice or not.

"If you don't mind, I know a way you can improve your DPS so it's even higher than it currently is" is an actual offer that can be followed up with the advice if the other player accepts. It doesn't make a specific judgment on the player's currently ability and some players may actually read it as a complliment, making them more receptive to the advice you'd like to give them.

Unfortunately, the biggest obstacle is going to be that crown next to your name. Whatever your good intentions, too many mentors have none. They're doing it strictly for the reward and have no interest in helping other players. They're more interested in being rude and obnoxious, bragging about how awesome they are because they have a crown next to their name.

Many of them don't know what they're doing, either. Last week in FC chat, a couple doing a roulette together were complaining about most of their group in Steps of Faith were totally ignoring mechanics so the group kept wiping. I asked how many were sprouts (figuring it was probably people trying to get it done for the MSQ who weren't familiar with the mechanics) and they said none but 3 of them were mentors.

If that's the quality of mentors players keep running into, then it's not surprising players aren't going to listen to the mentors who are knowledgeable and trying to help.