/Accuse @ the devs: have you set us up to fail...?

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Originally Posted by Gleipni

please upload it,i wanna laugh,and since people always ask for proof or didnt happen,show them that sometimes,people dont give a fuck and rely too much on others

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https://youtu.be/wAJ9InV3-MI

Enjoy!

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

https://youtu.be/wAJ9InV3-MI

Enjoy!

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That video has the names in which makes this feel like naming and shaming

The only shaming was my frustration and refusal to hard cast a raise for most of the encounter =(

It’s not calling anyone individual out. Rather it’s a good example of how frustrating even the easier 24 man fights can be. Hashmal was a lot worse ;)

The old adage about leading a horse to water comes to mind concerning what the OP stated. All the guidance and hand holding in the world won’t fix laziness, which is what I find to be the most common reason for bad dps numbers.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

The only shaming was my frustration and refusal to hard cast a raise for most of the encounter =(

It’s not calling anyone individual out. Rather it’s a good example of how frustrating even the easier 24 man fights can be. Hashmal was a lot worse ;)

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Well this has been used in another post to highlight the 200DPS BLM and as it has there name in, and a shows you kicking them it looks like naming and shaming to me

Oop I didn’t realise it ran that long, I’ll crop that when I get home. In fairness, they weren't kicked over their DPS, it was the Chariots that got them the boot in the end

*edit* it's cropped, the changes should show up over the next hour or so.

Here the thing I don't need the game to teach me how to DPS , I'm no stupid I can learn by myself before I even reach lv69.
Reserch/Google/talk to Friend
This MMO you supposed to connect with people to find rotation and stuff

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Originally Posted by LastFireAce

Here the thing I don't need the game to teach me how to DPS , I'm no stupid I can learn by myself before I even reach lv69.
Reserch/Google/talk to Friend
This MMO you supposed to connect with people to find rotation and stuff

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Thing is, without a proper tool to actually see your numbers, you can't be sure that you actually DPS high enough.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

The time when people were willing to spend more time to play more and learn are gone forever, most of the games including the big ones focus now on simplicity and making things easy to understand (look at wow for example).
A lot of people that used to "work in game" are now adults and cant really do it anymore, if they are either bored to do it again or dont have time for that, the gaming market is full of other games that offer fun for no effort, it was different back then when there was no good games to waste time on.
Thats why the most succesful games are the easy and fast ones today, where you put no effort into learning how the game works.
Sadly, but if the game is challenging and complicated, it will simply just not be succesful in the finance perspective.

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Simplicity in itself isn't bad...

One of the most simple games I know is Go.
It has like 3 or 4 rules total.

And it is a very deep game.

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Originally Posted by Metdevil

OP has made me paranoid that I should be looking into it sooner rather than later :p but I think I get you, so that's like the moves which combo together then?
At my current level, Lancer has True Thrust, Vorpal Thrust, Full Thrust as a combo, am I on the right track assuming that's a basic rotation?
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As I recall, there was a point early in leveling where Lancer had 2 skills from its first combo and only a single skill from its second combo.

The total potency of the 2 skills from the first combo was less potency than the single skill of the 2nd combo used twice.

Thus, during that stage of the leveling it was more efficient to put up the full thrust damage buff and then spam the single skill from combo 2.

But that was a bit of an oddity.

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Originally Posted by Gleipni

i remember in ARR,the community was not that bad for end content,probably because the trial were maybe a bit harder back then,and so you would get ready for bahamut coil,but now,they don't even try to add gameplay in dungeon,tank pull everything,healer heal through it,and DD aoe.so much gameplay wow

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The game could stand to have a better skill curve, increasing in difficulty slowly as the levels rise.

I do seem to recall that many of the dungeons from ARR got nerfed as the expansions continued, thus lowering the overall skill curve.
Perhaps those should not have been nerfed...

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Originally Posted by Iscah

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Or double-tap the trigger which only works with rather quick finicky timing, and might need a few tries before the hotbar pops up.
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IIRC, there's a setting to adjust the timing of the couble tap...

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Originally Posted by Guulu

People have to understand that current SSS dummy is NOT enough for meeting a dps check in real fights. Here's some reason I can come up with atm:

1. You lose GCD when you are solely doing mechanics. Missing 1 GCD for let's say 25 mechanics for a 10 minutes fight, That is around 10% dps loss which lead you from 4k to 3.6k dps (let's be real if your not pressing GCD you won't be pressing oGCD either so this is fairly true). Not to mention there are so much more mechanics in a fight. Uptime is the basic of getting good dps but doing SSS dummy doesn't teach you that.

2. SSS dummy is not tuned good enough. For example for O4S dummy, NIN one requires almost same dps as MNK's, while in fact NIN are 100 to 300 behind MNK depends on how bad the fight is for MNK. Same thing goes to MCH's and SMN's. Their required dps are much lower than it should be because both class received several buffs. AND this still happens on Shinryu EX's dummy where NIN is on par with MNK and SMN/MCH are still undertuned heavily.

3. Fights aren't even gated behind SSS. Plus the players know they're lacking and do the dummy are usually not the problem in the party. At least won't be for long because they are likely to improve shortly.

4. SSS dummy fight is too short where RNG is heavily involved and there are specific rotations to clear it easier but won't benefit you in the real fight.

But I think SSS might do just fine if it is well tuned and requires you to dodge mechanics.

Edit: post limit

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I've heard it said that the dps requirement on the dummies is supposedly higher than what's actually required in the fight to account for not having to do mechanics.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

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I like the thought of having to traverse a dungeon where you are constantly in danger of being killed from lagging behind. Just one though, and completely optional in hard mode.

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I think the Wanderer's Palace had the mechanic of the giant tonberry chasing you down, and would stab you if you didn't go through the first part of the dungeon quick enough...

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I really wonder about players who make statements like this. Toxic is the last thing I'd use to describe my experience in DF, and I have been playing for over two years. Most of the time things go smoothly and it's very uneventful. A lot of this post reeks of gross exaggeration.

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I really wonder about players who assume that their experiences mirror that of everyone else in the game. You know, the old chestnut about "I just ate, so I guess world hunger is a lie."

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Originally Posted by Veliena

The issue I see in this entire thought is, if the game sets everyone up to fail, how do some succeed?

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Usually by seeking help outside the game, which shouldn't be the best option for determining how to play your class properly.

It's generally rare to run into a tank or healer that doesn't know how to properly play their class while it's entirely commonplace to run into DPS that are next to clueless.

It's not hard to see which of the roles the game is doing a poor job of educating, and you can say "Well, some DPS do learn!" but that doesn't help the fact that DPS that DON'T learn are still going to plague most DFs you queue into.

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Originally Posted by Kazgrel

The old adage about leading a horse to water comes to mind concerning what the OP stated. All the guidance and hand holding in the world won’t fix laziness, which is what I find to be the most common reason for bad dps numbers.

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That doesn't justify putting a blindfold on the horse so it can't even tell if it's found water in the first place, though.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I really wonder about players who assume that their experiences mirror that of everyone else in the game. You know, the old chestnut about "I just ate, so I guess world hunger is a lie.".

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So what you're telling me is basically everyone I know on my server is an ultra fortunate player who rarely encounters toxicity in DF?

You heard it here first guys, come to Moogle. It's the good luck server!

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Originally Posted by Penthea

So what you're telling me is basically everyone I know on my server is an ultra fortunate player who rarely encounters toxicity in DF?

You heard it here first guys, come to Moogle. It's the good luck server!

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I'll stick to Cactuar where I have had the fortune of not running into the troubles that 80% of the forums seems to be filled with.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You heard it here first guys, come to Moogle. It's the good luck server!

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"Me and all these people I claim to know don't have this problem so it's not a problem!" isn't a compelling argument, especially when there's a thread on the main forum that's bumped constantly where players share their worst DF stories, including a bunch that are about toxicity surrounding people being called out for low DPS.

Dont need a parser to sovle the problem.

Its quite easy. Up the mob damage in suc a fashion mass pulling will wipe out the tank. Meaning, You can pull 3-4 Monsters and the tank can survive a certain period of time so long as healer is decent. But if it takes to long to kill those mobs, its a wipe.

You can implement this simply by having mobs hit harder the longer theyre in combat and the more mobs are in proximity. This damage boost is permanent to the mob until it resets or is killed.

If DPS cant burn down mobs fast enough, tis a wipe. If tanks dont know how to tank well enough, its a wipe. If healers cant keep tank up, its a wipe. Essentially, make it easier to wipe if clearing mobs takes to long, and discourage mass pulling.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

As I recall, there was a point early in leveling where Lancer had 2 skills from its first combo and only a single skill from its second combo.

The total potency of the 2 skills from the first combo was less potency than the single skill of the 2nd combo used twice.

Thus, during that stage of the leveling it was more efficient to put up the full thrust damage buff and then spam the single skill from combo 2.

But that was a bit of an oddity.

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That is an oddity. I think I know the skills you're talking about. Thanks :)

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

You can't step up to it and make dungeons fun. By the time we hit 70, bosses would be oneshotting everyone, take ten minutes each, all be on platforms with KB for instakills, and probably have some form of enrage. Shin was an ex trial scaled down more than an easy boss scaled up. Shin has more unique mechanics than O1S ffs.

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You have this terrible habit of speaking in absolutes. The Vault didn't have one-shot mechanics nor did it take ten minutes each boss. In fact, you cite PotD just a paragraph below yet seemingly haven't done yourself otherwise you'd know none of the bosses at higher level floors take even close to ten minutes with a standard comp. Come to think of it, O1S enrages before ten minutes. What unique mechanics? Shinryu primarily reuses old ARR Primal mechanics but simply doesn't let you bang your head on your keyboard if you expect to clear.

No matter how much you argue to the contrary, there does exist a middle ground between Savage and braindead. On a separate note, I'm glad you've finally acknowledged, albeit indirectly, O1S is an uncreative mess.

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Go do POTD floor 130+ and come back and tell me how much fun that is. cause those mobs do that, and you only pull one of them. Now imagine a dungeon full of them where you have to pull 3 at a time.

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I love PotD 130+. Putting priority mobs in dungeons would actually break up the monotony of pulling everything and AoEing it all down. Just last week, I recklessly pulled too much with some friends and we wound up wiping. Did it suck? Sure, but only because we have to do floors 50-100 again, which are just a slog. The fact the game punished me for being careless was more enjoyable than any current Expert dungeon. Furthermore, I feel like a tank in those floors despite pulling smaller packs. A primary reason mass pulls have become the norm nowadays is due to how negligible the damage is otherwise. When you can tank Yojimbo on Bard...

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Oh, bull. They had to nerf it slightly because so many people got murdered during the add phase by being a hair away from the corner. Many of the mechanics were faster and hit harder than most fights to date, and some even changed; the center circle aoe could be followed by a stack marker or a levinbolt, which is something not many casual content did. People got murdered by misjudging running to the safe corner of the line aoe by a second. If SE had kept their old policy of "you fall off the platform you are out of the whole fight" we'd all be screaming for nerfs. Diabolos Hollow or a12n was nowhere near as bad, and the latter stopped time.

This is why i never trust raiders, everything is easy for them

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Nonsense. In fact, where is your proof because Yoshida even specifically stated they weren't going to nerf Shinryu. Echo was only had several months later, which is standard for MSQ trials. People were "getting murdered" because they had no idea what they were doing. Unlike every piece of content prior, Shinryu forced you to pay attention to mechanics. Compare that to Thordan normal where you could stand in his AoEs because they did next to nothing and that's precisely why we see such a discrepancy between decent players and bad ones. Had the game actually scaled its difficulty better, people wouldn't be wiping to Shinryu the way they were. You cite A12N yet people were dying left and right when that came out too. Dun Scaith saw multiple wipes to Diabolos and Scathach. Either you are forgetting or straight up lying now.

And your bias shows with that last remark.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Shinryu comment

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Continuing our discussion from last week, there were some heavy calls to nerf the Royal Menagerie. And to my knowledge, the fight itself still has not been nerfed at all. Players are starting to outgear that fight, so they typically won't get one-shotted by the add drops - which by the way, is survivable, since you're pretty close to the meteor drops on the 3rd time, when you have to go to the edge between corners. It's not that everything is easy for raiders - it's that we actually took the time to pay attention to mechanics, learn them, and actually worked at getting good in our respective jobs. It's not that hard for regular players to do at least that, even back during the initial 4.0 patch.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

It's not that hard for regular players to do at least that, even back during the initial 4.0 patch.

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Exactly this. As a non-raider I've loved Shinryu from the start because of how it felt more like a fight and less like waiting to win against a boss that can't beat you.

That didn't make it bad but it did make it more difficult (well, difficult at all) for players who have stumbled through the last two years of content unopposed and unlearning simply because laziness and ignorance haven't been penalized.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Exactly this. As a non-raider I've loved Shinryu from the start because of how it felt more like a fight and less like waiting to win against a boss that can't beat you.

That didn't make it bad but it did make it more difficult (well, difficult at all) for players who have stumbled through the last two years of content unopposed and unlearning simply because laziness and ignorance haven't been penalized.

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Agreed. I was completely casual until Shinryu, when I decided I wanted a real challenge. Honestly, my first wake up call was really The Final Steps of Faith. And I fought him in 3.56, when most players were running in 260-270 gear. Still took me a few times because of mechanics, and I was a monk at the time.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

So what you're telling me is basically everyone I know on my server is an ultra fortunate player who rarely encounters toxicity in DF?

You heard it here first guys, come to Moogle. It's the good luck server!

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Statistic =/= Plural Anecdotes.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

You have this terrible habit of speaking in absolutions. The Vault didn't have one-shot mechanics nor did it take ten minutes each. In fact, you cite PotD just a paragraph below yet seemingly haven't done yourself otherwise you'd know none of the bosses at even higher level floors take even close to ten minutes with a standard comp. Come to think of it, O1S enrages before ten minutes. What unique mechanics? Shinryu primarily reuses old ARR Primal mechanics but simply doesn't let you bang your head on your keyboard if you expect to clear.

No matter how much you argue to the contrary, there does exist a middle ground between Savage and braindead. On a separate note, I'm glad you've finally acknowledged, albeit indirectly, O1S is an uncreative mess.



I love PotD 130+. Putting priority mobs in dungeons would actually break up the monotony of pulling everything and AoEing it all down. Just last week, I recklessly pulled too much with some friends and we wound up wiping. Did it suck? Sure, but only because we have to do floors 50-100 again, which are just a slog. The fact the game punished me for being careless was more enjoyable than any current Expert dungeon. Furthermore, I feel like a tank in those floors despite pulling smaller packs. A primary reason mass pulls have become the norm nowadays is due to how negligible the damage is otherwise. When you can tank Yojimbo on Bard...



Nonsense. In fact, where is your proof because Yoshida even specifically stated they weren't going to nerf Shinryu. Echo was only had several months later, which is standard for MSQ trials. People were "getting murdered" because they had no idea what they were doing. Unlike every piece of content prior, Shinryu forced you to pay attention to mechanics. Compare that to Thordan normal where you could stand in his AoEs because they did next to nothing and that's precisely why we see such a discrepancy between decent players and bad ones. Had the game actually scaled its difficulty better, people wouldn't be wiping to Shinryu the way they were. You cite A12N yet people were dying left and right when that came out too. Dun Scaith saw multiple wipes to Diabolos and Scathach. Either you are forgetting or straight up lying now.

And your bias shows with that last remark.

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yeah I wonder too about the absolute thing, nice post +1. We need something harder then faceroll braindead as we level up.

We really need better scaling and increase the general difficulty 51 + DF runs. This is why skill gaps exist, this is why people enter 70 content unprepared, this is why people think they can step in the final level 70 run without their last ability, the game lets them to be carried.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

So what you're telling me is basically everyone I know on my server is an ultra fortunate player who rarely encounters toxicity in DF?

You heard it here first guys, come to Moogle. It's the good luck server!

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Most of the time people chose not to talk, so unless you are regularly commenting on people not meeting low bar requirements, your not going to see much.

Players should not be stepping into The Royal Menagerie at all until they finish their lvl 70 job quest. If not only for that last job skill, it's to at least get their 290 gear. I really feel like the fight should be completely gated until players finish their last quest. Heck, I'd even venture far enough to be an advocate of gating off Ala Mhigo until then, just for lore purposes. A huge chunk of jobs just aren't complete without that lvl 70 job skill, and the skill completes the job in many ways. Dark Knights get a pretty quick, almost overpowered shield, Paladins get Passage of Arms, hell, SMNs are not complete at all until they finish the Lvl 70 quest.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Players should not be stepping into The Royal Menagerie at all until they finish their lvl 70 job quest. If not only for that last job skill, it's to at least get their 290 gear. I really feel like the fight should be completely gated until players finish their last quest. Heck, I'd even venture far enough to be an advocate of gating off Ala Mhigo until then, just for lore purposes. A huge chunk of jobs just aren't complete without that lvl 70 job skill, and the skill completes the job in many ways. Dark Knights get a pretty quick, almost overpowered shield, Paladins get Passage of Arms, hell, SMNs are not complete at all until they finish the Lvl 70 quest.

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ya really, and Ala mhigo might of been tolerable but this was a BLM without foul/ilevel 285 weapon in The Drowned City of Skalla....
entry requirement i300 is not enough to block that apparently.

This is why I think the title heading " /Accuse @ the devs: have you set us up to fail...? " has truth in it.

THERE IS NO REASON someone at 70 , a BLM at 70 to be specific, be entering the last level 70 current DF like The Drowned City of Skalla (of this posting, the highest 4 man) without foul, without an ilevel 300 + weapon, while having a rotation of fire I and fire III spam on 5+ targets, rare to see fire II, no flare, no convert , no thunder, no thunder aoe, and as said earlier, no foul....

COME ON!!! bad game design if people find that ok.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

COME ON!!! bad game design if people find that ok.

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This is not bad game design, it's more a community thing : You let those people slide and get carried, even though the information of how to perform better in their role is there.

If you guys don't crack down on these players, nothing will change.

It is partly a game design issue too, as nowhere the game tells you you are required to finish your job quest. All you get is a friendly reminder you can run your job quest. But important skills are locked behind it, the game doesn't however lock content that would require you to have that skill.
The game shouldn't allow people to run lv 70 content without first completing the lv 70 job quest.

I've had a Red mage a few days ago during expert roulette (Ala Mihgo) who obviously didn't complete his lv70 job quest.
When I asked if he did complete the quest, all I got was being called out as elitist, and typical "you don't pay my sub behaviour" on top of attemps to bait me in saying I was running a parser so he could report me, whereas I never mentionned his dps directly or talked about numbers.

I totally agree with you previous statements : the game needs to lock content behind all job quests completion otherwise we end up with people like that. I feel really sorry for those who had to carry this guy though shinryu...

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Originally Posted by Lelila38

It is partly a game design issue too, as nowhere the game tells you you are required to finish your job quest. All you get is a friendly reminder you can run your job quest. But important skills are locked behind it, the game doesn't however lock content that would require you to have that skill.
The game shouldn't allow people to run lv 70 content without first completing the lv 70 job quest.

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Originally Posted by Deithwen

I've had a Red mage a few days ago during expert roulette (Ala Mihgo) who obviously didn't complete his lv70 job quest.
When I asked if he did complete the quest, all I got was being called out as elitist, and typical "you don't pay my sub behaviour" on top of attemps to bait me in saying I was running a parser so he could report me, whereas I never mentionned his dps directly or talked about numbers.

I totally agree with you previous statements : the game needs to lock content behind all job quests completion otherwise we end up with people like that. I feel really sorry for those who had to carry this guy though shinryu...

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If you guys think they'll get better once they finish their level 70 job quests, with such an attitude, then you're mistaken. Bad players will be bad, regardless if they wear their i290 job armor or shiny i340 gear.

And when they can't bring up the effort to finish their quests first, then they won't make much an effort in improving on their job, either.

Yeah when I first got into Ala Mhigo I hadn’t done my Pld 70 quest because I was just running from one MSQ to the next one. The mobs hit pretty hard, but I just pulled smaller groups. (About three weeks into sb) I don’t know if that gate will really effect the competency of players or simply just lag them a little before jumping into the same 70 content.

While it may not curtail decent play, it will at least allow us to hold players accountable in lvl 70 content. If I have a RDM who is unable to use Verflare/Verholy, a SMN who can't use Bahamut, etc., then I can hold them more accountable for holding the party back. And honestly, it's tiring walking on eggshells with bad DPS players because one of their first responses is to ask if we are parsing. I once joked to a O1S group that had 3 SAM to not let me out DPS them as a RDM. Immediately, two of the players asked me if I was parsing. I told them I'm on PS4, what do you think?

Almost got kicked...and funnily enough, I did out DPS them.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

If I have a RDM who is unable to use Verflare/Verholy

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Verflare is level 68, only Verholy is 70. Potency are the same, just the procs are different on execution, though that is not much of a DPS loss.
So if you see someone slacking off at using Verflare, then you can be sure Verholy won't see much use, either.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

I'll stick to Cactuar where I have had the fortune of not running into the troubles that 80% of the forums seems to be filled with.

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same goes for famfrit and goblin ^^

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Originally Posted by Arrius

snip

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I am not saying it will solve every problem or make them better. But I'd take anything that can make those runs even a tiny bit faster. I also believe that every content at level 70 should be gated behind job quests, and leveling dungeons should have a minimum requirement. I also think that minimum average item level is not enough, and we should have something like every piece of gear > a certain ilv (say if you want to get in post HW content, every piece must be at least 255 for example).

I personnally would go a lot further than that, if someone is too lazy to read a tooltip or gear up properly not to be a burden, or even unlock their skills, they shouldn't be allowed to continue further until they fix their flaws.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Verflare is level 68, only Verholy is 70. Potency are the same, just the procs are different on execution, though that is not much of a DPS loss.
So if you see someone slacking off at using Verflare, then you can be sure Verholy won't see much use, either.

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That is partially why threads like these come up...stuff like this. Not much of a DPS loss = DPS loss, period.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Continuing our discussion from last week, there were some heavy calls to nerf the Royal Menagerie. And to my knowledge, the fight itself still has not been nerfed at all. Players are starting to outgear that fight, so they typically won't get one-shotted by the add drops - which by the way, is survivable, since you're pretty close to the meteor drops on the 3rd time, when you have to go to the edge between corners. It's not that everything is easy for raiders - it's that we actually took the time to pay attention to mechanics, learn them, and actually worked at getting good in our respective jobs. It's not that hard for regular players to do at least that, even back during the initial 4.0 patch.

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Keep in mind that while there were calls to nerf it, there wasn't an epidemic of people getting it in roulette and dropping group. People doing MSQ have always been able to complete it, although it may take a few tries.

Steps of Faith was nerfed because a large segment of the community said "F that" and simply refused to do it ever again, thus forming a wall that newbies couldn't get past. Groups also tended to devolve into yelling and bickering over who should be doing what. To the community's credit, Menagerie wasn't nearly as bad. There were more people willing to help people through it when it came up. I don't know if wanting it to not get nerfed into the ground was a factor or if people were just nicer this time around, but it never formed the same kind of MSQ brick wall. Thus, SE didn't need to act.

It's too bad in that Steps of Faith is a neat encounter, but it's one that benefits massively from a group having a leader explaining who should be doing what, and having people willing to do it. When you either don't have anyone taking charge or have people arguing and refusing to do a given role, it simply doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Players should not be stepping into The Royal Menagerie at all until they finish their lvl 70 job quest. If not only for that last job skill, it's to at least get their 290 gear. I really feel like the fight should be completely gated until players finish their last quest. Heck, I'd even venture far enough to be an advocate of gating off Ala Mhigo until then, just for lore purposes. A huge chunk of jobs just aren't complete without that lvl 70 job skill, and the skill completes the job in many ways. Dark Knights get a pretty quick, almost overpowered shield, Paladins get Passage of Arms, hell, SMNs are not complete at all until they finish the Lvl 70 quest.

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I agree. Hell, I had my WHM 70 quest done before Doma Castle, because I'm slow at completing the story, lol (not that Plenary Indulgence even remotely mattered at the time). That 290 gear is itself something that matters and it's something the game should try to make sure people do.

"Set up to fail"? This is just ridiculous. You set up your own failures by not understanding what SE expects from you. Especially now with the SB leveling dungeons which are basically a crash course of how to function as a party. If you can't figure out a rotation have you tried, oh I dunno, reading the tooltips and properly understanding your abilities and your job? Warriors are obviously dependent on their Berserk windows for damage so plan Beast Gauge usage in consequence. Machinist needs to optimize Wildfire damage. Monk needs to keep buff and debuffs going while switching stances. All this should give you a pretty good indicator of what you should be doing. Don't blame SE because they thought you could actually take a moment to figure out how to play.

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Originally Posted by Lelila38

It is partly a game design issue too, as nowhere the game tells you you are required to finish your job quest. All you get is a friendly reminder you can run your job quest. But important skills are locked behind it, the game doesn't however lock content that would require you to have that skill.
The game shouldn't allow people to run lv 70 content without first completing the lv 70 job quest.

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Come on... anyone that has ever played a game with classes in it shouldnt have to be "told" to unlock the better/best things their class has to offer. Hell, even if u take the time to look at your "Actions" it is pretty clear your job quest is a good place to look if you havent unlocked all of them.

Yet, I had a newbie (week into the game) ask me why and, if so, when he should start playing under WHM as CNJ had 10 role skill slots verses 5.
It wasn't hard to explain, but at level 35, those 10 slots look better than what little a WHM can access differently from CNJ.

Job quest given spells aren't listed under "actions."

(That might be a contributing factor to the small population of players that never get their job crystal popping up in later content. Some are obvious trolls, but others are very much misinformed.)

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Yet, I had a newbie (week into the game) ask me why and, if so, when he should start playing under WHM as CNJ had 10 role skill slots verses 5.
It wasn't hard to explain, but at level 35, those 10 slots look better than what little a WHM can access differently from CNJ.

Job quest given spells aren't listed under "actions."

(That might be a contributing factor to the small population of players that never get their job crystal popping up in later content. Some are obvious trolls, but others are very much misinformed.)

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Don't they show up if you reached that level in potd though?

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Originally Posted by Tridus

I don't know if wanting it to not get nerfed into the ground was a factor or if people were just nicer this time around, but it never formed the same kind of MSQ brick wall. Thus, SE didn't need to act.

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Two issues with Steps of Faith prior to its nerf were, as far as I've heard:

1. Missing a single Dragon Cannon basically spelled wipe barring absurdly high DPS
2. There was no way to wipe the party until the duty failed, thus each attempt could range well over ten minutes.

The latter was likely a bigger factor in veterans leaving en masse. Why wipe for a half hour (or longer) when you could eat the penalty and hopefully get Garuda, who basically rolled over? Shinryu had neither problem, which made people were willing to just stick it out.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

1. Missing a single Dragon Cannon basically spelled wipe barring absurdly high DPS

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Ya now you don't even need to use the cannons or killers at all and can still manage to kill it with plenty of time to spare. Hell, in some cases people get mad if you do use the killer because you gotta stop hitting the dragon.