Boycotting Dark Knight

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

Don't forget how, with regards to cross-roles, we got WHM'd.

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Goddamn, don't even get me started on the cross-role system as a whole. It is probably the stupidest thing in the game right now with regards to the job system.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

Goddamn, don't even get me started on the cross-role system as a whole. It is probably the stupidest thing in the game right now with regards to the job system.

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It's one of my largest 4.0 complaints as well. There's a lot that's changed, and some of the decisions made by SE are utterly baffling.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

It's one of my largest 4.0 complaints as well. There's a lot that's changed, and some of the decisions made by SE are utterly baffling.

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Going into 4.0, I thought, and hoped, that what they were going to do with it is take some abilities and combine their effects (things like combining Foresight and Awareness into 1 button, combine Convalescence and Bloodbath, and then take skills that are almost never used (like Tempered Will) and put THOSE into cross role, instead of valued cooldowns and utilities getting removed from 1 job, nerfed, and then passed out to everybody.

It would have made so much more sense and would have reduced button bloat in a similar fashion, to simply combine weaker skills into one button, instead of just cutting powerful abilities from the game altogether, or making us go into cross-role to get them back.

Yeah it's ridiculous. And DRK kinda relied on Parry for CD resets and procs and whatnot and getting rid of Parry and stuff really fucked them up. I thought DRK always had no identity but right now they really don't have one at all.

The cross class system doesn't even resemble cross class at all.

I kinda just want to not play after seeing how much they've fucked up basic battle design.

Just drop the class and save yourself the trouble at this point you are just setting yourself up for disappointment. I dropped the class for SAM and now im working on NIN so i can drop SAM after it became obvious certain classes at this point are slowly getting gated from content and thats SE's fault not the players.

I love my dark knight

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Originally Posted by Dio_Tiferet

Just drop the class and save yourself the trouble at this point you are just setting yourself up for disappointment. I dropped the class for SAM and now im working on NIN so i can drop SAM after it became obvious certain classes at this point are slowly getting gated from content and thats SE's fault not the players.

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I did the same thing, but after maining SAM for awhile I realized I don't really want to be dps main, tanking is my preferred role, so I started gearing WAR, but the whole thing has really killed my motivation to even play the game. I haven't tried to get into another group for raids after having to leave my previous one for schedule reasons, I haven't touched Shinryu EX and don't really feel compelled to do so. I don't know, maybe I'll take a break and see how things look in a few patches.

Coming from a melee main through most of ARR and Heavensward, I was delighted when I found that Dark Knight was a tank I could feel more at home on towards 3.3 or so onwards. Stormblood flipping this upside down has been bearable due to the hope that the strange reliance on a couple issues could be better developed and worked with, such as useless abilities, TBN's awkwardness, etc. Recent developments however have, to me, finally killed this hope, and I don't think I'll be able to get behind Dark Knight anymore for the time being. It's a pity, I was ready to make the jump to a tank main, but the fun element is just losing steam quickly.
All the rest of you still holding out, I salute you and I hope Dark Knight treats you well. All the rest who have thrown in the towel far earlier than this, let's just keep hoping things'll get better, but I understand that sometimes this has to be done at a distance.

DRK WF Ultimate.

The are a good player. Viability is not balance.

Balance and viability also have nothing to do with how much fun I have playing the job. I don't really give a damn about DRK getting world first, it still doesn't make a poorly designed job fun to use. I really think it's too bad most of the complaints about DRK have been framed in tank balance discussions, because the problems are more about how the job is put together, how it functions. Or maybe I'm in the minority but I hate the way the job was changed for SB and world first isn't going to alter that.

go play a job you have fun with then no one is forcing a great sword into your hand and to follow the path of darkness yo.

We can also try and raise awareness of the issue while we do that.

PSU: You recently made changes to the Warrior job that has caused some dark knights to now feel slightly less useful in the end game scene, with certain moves like Dark Passenger feeling much less useful. Are there any plans to address these potential balance issues?

Naoki Yoshida:
While we are always looking closely at community opinions on adjustments, the team currently feels that these recent changes have not made a largely visible disparity between the classes. Many players are tackling the Unending Coil of Bahamut (Ultimate) and the trends in strategy and party composition is also a big indicator for us as well. However, I do not think it wrong to say that the contribution warrior can now bring with Shake it Off is more visibly apparently when compared to dark knight.

Full interview http://www.psu.com/feature/34640/int...future-content

Sounds like we aren't getting anything until 5.0.

Not gonna boycott DRK, there's no reason to go that far if its a class you enjoy in the first place... It will be interesting to see what happens if another tank sees an emergence in 5.0 though.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Not gonna boycott DRK, there's no reason to go that far if its a class you enjoy in the first place... It will be interesting to see what happens if another tank sees an emergence in 5.0 though.

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Maybe we are boycotting DRK because we don't enjoy it anymore?

The translation on the shake it off quote is confusing.
It's like he's saying it's not wrong to think that the contributton from SIO is more visibly apparent than what DRK offers.

Does he mean it's better or a subtle reference that he thinks TBN is good, we just don't see it.

He wasn't going to talk about job balance in that interview. it was a loaded question firstly and he concedes to that final point: WAR has visibly better raid mitigation (of course).

But he wasn't going to say anything more or go into depth, just as he ignored the Monk question as well.

His first job is a PR man and this was a promotion interview, he's not going say something like, 'yeah job x has problems.' Those kind of comments will come directly from patch notes and LLs when they're being addressed and/or solutions are coming as well.

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Originally Posted by Gojin

go play a job you have fun with then no one is forcing a great sword into your hand and to follow the path of darkness yo.

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How did I not see this? With the plethora of tanking jobs, just go play something else! With the abundance of tanks in this game, with the wide ranging diversity within the many jobs in this role just find something else I have fun with! It's all so simple!
And for those of you that still enjoy the trash that is SB DRK but are concerned about balance just remember,

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Originally Posted by Gojin

DRK WF cleared Ultimate.

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Can facts, data or logic stand against such argumentation? No, no the threads can now be closed, the complaints can stop, we who are not satisfied with DRK don't have a leg to stand on.

While WF Ultimate clear shows DRK is viable enough—honestly more than viable enough—that doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit the game to adjust it some. There's a lot of things in its kit that don't make sense or work well, just like MNK. MNK doesn't have a DPS problem but rather has a design problem, but people still point to MNK's DPS and utility to shut down any conversations about changes to how the job feels or plays.

You don't even listen what WF and Yoshida's team are saying.
All jobs can do all content. All.

But! That doesn't means all jobs are equal. Xenos himself told the DRK need something, because when we talk about speedkill, DRK is just bad. Also, for an average player, DRK is still the worst tank to play.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

While WF Ultimate clear shows DRK is viable enough—honestly more than viable enough—that doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit the game to adjust it some. There's a lot of things in its kit that don't make sense or work well, just like MNK. MNK doesn't have a DPS problem but rather has a design problem, but people still point to MNK's DPS and utility to shut down any conversations about changes to how the job feels or plays.

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That's exactly how I feel about both jobs. They're great, they're viable, but they're missing things. Fun and design fluidity. The same can be said for SCH really, its kit doesn't quite work. I would like my DRK to be as fun as my WAR and my PLD, but it's not.

Xenos doesn't know what he talk about. how much time does he spend play his dark knight. sound to me that people are just anger of nothing. how time do any you spend play your dark knight hmm, if you boycott it mean you spend very little time play it so you are tried adjust any new system with dark knight no you just get anger with how adjust to learn how play it better with new system you behavior like little spoiled babies

realize to tank you must have both Grit and Darksider on to tank

the core ability of warrior is overwhlemed this should be in your c1 slot on your keyboard


they alittle sercet that most tank aren't tell you that tank hasn't change since 2.0 to 4.0 this what i am say should be common knowledge but i see to many tank run around not use grit and dark side or use overwhelm but these skills are still need

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

Xenos doesn't know what he talk about. how much time does he spend play his dark knight. sound to me that people are just anger of nothing. how time do any you spend play your dark knight hmm, if you boycott it mean you spend very little time play it so you are tried adjust any new system with dark knight no you just get anger with how adjust to learn how play it better with new system you behavior like little spoiled babies

realize to tank you must have both Grit and Darksider on to tank

the core ability of warrior is overwhlemed this should be in your c1 slot on your keyboard


they alittle sercet that most tank aren't tell you that tank hasn't change since 2.0 to 4.0 this what i am say should be common knowledge but i see to many tank run around not use grit and dark side or use overwhelm but these skills are still need

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Google translate much....?

Unfortunately, this fabled newest interview is the only time they've responded to Dark Knight issues directly since Stormblood started (and perhaps reaching far earlier).

What I took from it was that they notice party composition and usage statistics in deciding balancing factors in jobs, that the tanks are close enough right now to not warrant alarm, and also Dark Knights are immature siblings that saw Warrior get a present for Christmas and want one too. The last part feels implied.

But I decided to focus on something I now know they notice: party composition and strategy. If there is a major decrease in party compositions including Dark Knight, they can notice and comment on it. I really don't care anymore who thinks Dark Knight is fine or not fine and in what ways, I feel something needs to be done for my enjoyment of the job and if the only way to get the message across is the aforementioned way, then so bloody be it.

(I do think Dark Knight is, in small (DPS), medium (TBN) and alarming ways (useless skills, overall mitigation) behind the other tanks, but it's past the point of convincing others now.)

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Originally Posted by Valdegarde

...and also Dark Knights are immature siblings that, before going to sleep inside a dumpster on the street, were looking for food in the trash bin on a cold winter night, saw Warrior get a present for Christmas through the window and wished for one too.

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(semi)Joking of course, though can't say it doesn't hold any truth to it.

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

if you boycott it mean you spend very little time play it so you are tried adjust any new system with dark knight no you just get anger with how adjust to learn how play it better with new system you behavior like little spoiled babies

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hm, i spent enough time with my dark knight, i don't raid, but i got my 4.0 tank mount and farmed the ex primals a lot. and yes, i am using grit and i have 2000 tenacity on my DRK. but however...

3.0 DRK brought me to tank, despite my social anxiety and - tankxiety, because the class was just so much fun to play. however, 4.0 DRK is no fun for me anymore, especially the lack of defense and the change to a more offensive playstyle* broke the class for me, because i love being defensive.

*by that i mean you now have to constatly use dark arts to manually turn your mana into dps, rather than dark side does this automatically for you like in 3.0, wich results in a higher focus in working for your dps than in 3.0, while at the same time many defensive skills are gone and the main defensive skill now - TBN - also gives you 50 blood, so you have not only to constantly blow mana into dps, but also burn the blood away. this focus on the offense is not what i am looking for when playing tank...

http://www.mmorpg.com/final-fantasy-...ADi535s1STD.99

TL;dr of that interview: Tanks are balanced in his eyes and the dev team. Strongly doubting "translation" issues like people claimed in the first interview.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

http://www.mmorpg.com/final-fantasy-...ADi535s1STD.99

TL;dr of that interview: Tanks are balanced in his eyes and the dev team. Strongly doubting "translation" issues like people claimed in the first interview.

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I wonder if YoshiP sometime plays tank in FF. I mean... Tanks are already the role that has the less players, it's all because the gameplay, of course, but it contributes.
Now, the DRK is less played since SB, and in the english forum -> Tank the DRK is the main protagonist of ~70% of the threads.

And all is good for him...

I love FF XIV and I love the way YoshiP saved it, but God, he doesn't understand tanks in mmo...

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

He wasn't going to talk about job balance in that interview. it was a loaded question firstly and he concedes to that final point: WAR has visibly better raid mitigation (of course).

But he wasn't going to say anything more or go into depth, just as he ignored the Monk question as well.

His first job is a PR man and this was a promotion interview, he's not going say something like, 'yeah job x has problems.' Those kind of comments will come directly from patch notes and LLs when they're being addressed and/or solutions are coming as well.

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I think so, too.

Yet I can understand if those who were/are waiting for some kind of acknowledgement can't help but feel disappointment towards this reaction.

Another live letter avoiding any mention of dark knight. If we want changes and buffs to actually be useful it seems like the devs will only pay attention to people not playing the class.

We've been waiting since June for a reasonable response, still waiting.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Another live letter avoiding any mention of dark knight. If we want changes and buffs to actually be useful it seems like the devs will only pay attention to people not playing the class.

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If you were expecting them to talk about DRK changes, this is the wrong live letter to expect it from. This is a part one LL where they NEVER talk about job changes.

SMN wasn't mentioned in the 4.1 part one LL, and only had a brief mention in 4.1 part 2. The Devs don't talk about job changes in Live Letters because they would rather talk about actual content

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

If you were expecting them to talk about DRK changes, this is the wrong live letter to expect it from. This is a part one LL where they NEVER talk about job changes.

SMN wasn't mentioned in the 4.1 part one LL, and only had a brief mention in 4.1 part 2. The Devs don't talk about job changes in Live Letters because they would rather talk about actual content

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Warrior was mentioned. Dark Knight has been asking for acknowledgement for months, what would it take to say Warrior, BLM, and dark adjustments being looked at?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4510402

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Warrior was mentioned. Dark Knight has been asking for acknowledgement for months, what would it take to say Warrior, BLM, and dark adjustments being looked at?

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This is the key quote:

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We'll be going over the details in the second part of the Patch 4.2 special.

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DRK needs bigger changes than WAR and BLM, so it may be under wraps for now. If we hear nothing in part 2 (the one where job changes will be talked about), then you have justification to complain.

Not jumping on the bandwagon, but I think it’s fair to say that WAR getting a nod alongside a job in need of a little help (BLM) could ruffle feathers.

That said. It’s speculation at this point. The most we’ve got is the official notes suggesting WAR is having something done about “usability” or some such. Let’s see what part 2 brings next month.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

This is the key quote:



DRK needs bigger changes than WAR and BLM, so it may be under wraps for now. If we hear nothing in part 2 (the one where job changes will be talked about), then you have justification to complain.

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No, I disagree with this line of reasoning entirely. People have been telling dark knights to hold on since launch. Nothing has happened. Make some noise get some changes. Let the developer know this is not a way to run a game. Warriors got acknowledgement of their problems, asking dark knights to just be patient and wait is ignoring where that has gotten us so far.

Let's take another look at those drk changes they outlined in the live letter to make it just as good as the other two tanks!

https://learn.getgrav.org/user/pages.../error-404.png

There hasn't really been any complaints from war's other than Xeno's rant about crit Fell Cleaves. It's really baffling why they'd even mention warriors.

If they aren't even going to acknowledge the problems with DRK at this point, they might as well delete it from the game.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

There hasn't really been any complaints from war's other than Xeno's rant about crit Fell Cleaves. It's really baffling why they'd even mention warriors.

If they aren't even going to acknowledge the problems with DRK at this point, they might as well delete it from the game.

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Hey I like playing dark. I find them enjoyable compared to the other two tanks....People like us exist you know outside this forum...

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Originally Posted by ULoki

Hey I like playing dark. I find them enjoyable compared to the other two tanks....People like us exist you know outside this forum...

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It's more of a hyperbole. Why continue to support a job that the devs themselves don't care to support? Not only did they outright ignore DRK, they slapped you in the face by mentioning they might be giving War more buffs.