Increasing xp gained by dps classes in leveling dungeons

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Originally Posted by Arrius

I doubt there will be much of a change regarding this, given SE's Census from 2015 and 2016 confirm that adding new tanks and healer only are a drop on a hot stone when it comes to role popularity.

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Well then get use to your long wait times if you're a dps. You chose a career that isnt in high demand, so expect to settle for low paying jobs(fates/potd) until you land a big one(dungeon).

How will more exp fix leveling dungeons queue times?

I been leveling my Dps via Frontlines and I don't see how players are getting 10% winrates. My games have been nearly instant queues and I win about 70% of them because I actually try..

Dps get actual interesting rotations, Two new jobs this expansion and most of the the role have engaging new abilities and mechanics unlike Healers and Tanks. Safety from being called out..

Tanks get Mounts, Instant queues, Exp, and almost always Clusters.

Healers get semi instant queues and Exp. Keep incentiving Tanks and Dps and you will get even worse Healers in DF :).

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

How will more exp fix leveling dungeons queue times?I been leveling my Dps via Frontlines and I don't see how players are getting 10% winrates. My games have been nearly instant queues and I win about 70% of them because I actually try..

Dps get actual interesting rotations, Two new jobs this expansion and most of the the role have engaging new abilities and mechanics unlike Healers and Tanks. Safety from being called out..

Tanks get Mounts, Instant queues, Exp, and almost always Clusters.

Healers get semi instant queues and Exp. Keep incentiving Tanks and Dps and you will get even worse Healers in DF :).

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last time I tried to level a DPS in PvP i had my head bitten off for asking someone change to healer because we only had 1, and a lot of times I am asking and no one changes.

Just best to deep 17-60 then at 60 roulette or something, then @level df 61-70.

even with DPS wait time @level df is more exp then pvp by far.

also sS your pvp totals? I find 70% a bit hard to swallow. Someone doing a PvP analysis that is high ranking, like top 100 in feast or something of this nature, wasn't that high win rate. With the rng involved being 1/24 in a 1v1v1, your basic average win rate is 33% unless you premade. Mostly people range 30-40% I believe, for frontlines

Past that, to answer your question, it doesn't and I am here trying to explain that.

Well currently Frontlines have an excess amount of Bots they are really easy to abuse.

They all have predictable patterns like in Frontlines since its Zerging mostly what I play is Bard or Sch the second I start to get focused I back up Recuperate and Max Potion and the Bots tend to follow which means 4-5 bots are out of position really easy to kill since its basically Zerging and 23 of your team will burst the 4-5 bots which is 20-25 points.

Im on Aether and usually its Mael or Adders who are even close. At about 1200 points I can change to a class I want for exp and finish the rest of the game with said class. Most players are doing maybe 50k Dmg in Frontlines. Others myself included can get from 150k-420k Dmg based on how the games goes. As for premades its not really needed since most pvpers just freelance and get grouped with each other since bots seemed to be a premade.

The bots also seem to afk in front of enemies again easy to abuse they focus targets, and if you are a bard you can silence the bot Healers. You can even kite bots to the enemy and have your team kill ice. One more thing bots are almost always Bard, Blm, Paladin, Whms, Dragoons, Monks where are thoses jobs from.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Well do you really expect people to stay the role that gets ridiculed and insulted most of the time? I mean look at the healers that don't dps threads and you'll see why the number of healers are down. Then you have that not enjoying big pulls threads and you have some there telling if you don't want to do big pulls, then don't bother being a tank. lol

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This is sadly one of the major issues why people avoid both tanks and healer roles. If you are a tank or healer you are in the spotlight, when you make a mistake its known and often you will be called out for making a mistake. DPS players do not have this issue (yes people can use parser, but its forbidden to use this data as proof), there are either 2-4 of them in the group, this alleviates the pressure from them to preform at 100%, because someone else will probably carry their part of the DPS . Tanks and healers also help the group by doing DPS and since Heavensward groups have been pressuring both tanks and healers, especially healers, hence all those threads shaming healers for not DPSing.

So healers need to DPS and heal, tanks need to DPS and tank and DPS only needs to DPS. Giving them more benefits, will be the same as giving the finger to those that queue as a tank or healer.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Well do you really expect people to stay the role that gets ridiculed and insulted most of the time? I mean look at the healers that don't dps threads and you'll see why the number of healers are down. Then you have that not enjoying big pulls threads and you have some there telling if you don't want to do big pulls, then don't bother being a tank. lol

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You forgot to name those poor DPS in the "When DPS don't AoE, should they get kicked from the start?" thread. It reads like any healer DPS thread, really. By the third page, someone already called you out for being "a terrible person" if you don't use them on big pulls.

The main difference is that there are less DPS making threads going:"I don't enjoy doing lots of damage.", or "Should Bards now be allowed to play how they choose?" in which they're trying to defend not using DoTs or any other low standard of excellence, which makes it seem like tanks and healers get ridiculed more often. If DPS were to be as avid about defending low standards as healers and tanks are, they would be ridiculed just as much, I can assure you that.

Ingame, things look different than on the forums anyway.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

There's no shortage of tanks and healers.
They just don't deal with the crap the dungeon duties give because people perform terribly and hence fall back to friends and fc members they can rely on.

And no amount of carrot will change their mind about it.

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I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I prefer casters to most other styles of playing. But, back at the beginning of Heavensward, I was getting sick of dps queue times, and someone suggested to me to play healer to avoid them. I was tentative at first but as I leveled I found out that not only did I enjoy it, I was actually pretty awesome at it too. So now I more or less main healer.

A bigger carrot might entice more dps to try things out of their comfort zones and potentially there will be more healers/ tanks in the game in general. There will never be as many tanks and healers as dps, that's just a given, but more healers and tanks is always a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

A bigger carrot might entice more dps to try things out of their comfort zones and potentially there will be more healers/ tanks in the game in general. There will never be as many tanks and healers as dps, that's just a given, but more healers and tanks is always a good thing.

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Or they actually tried to play a tank/healer and got turned off by the amount of responsibility and effort the roles brings.
As mentioned before, the HW release brought a change in roulette queues in the first months, but fell back shortly in its old role demand.
Carrot all fine and good, but once it starts to be exclusive items or bonuses solely to be received by playing the AIN in roulettes, then the forum will drown in complaints.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Or they actually tried to play a tank/healer and got turned off by the amount of responsibility and effort the roles brings.
As mentioned before, the HW release brought a change in roulette queues in the first months, but fell back shortly in its old role demand.
Carrot all fine and good, but once it starts to be exclusive items or bonuses solely to be received by playing the AIN in roulettes, then the forum will drown in complaints.

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But here's the thing, short of removing the need for tank/heal/2DPS, how do we go about fixing the queue times? I don't think interesting gameplay is the way to do it, because it's still the responsibility. I think you have to make it worth them taking on the extra responsibility in order to go for it. And I'd say for that, you need incentives.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Or they actually tried to play a tank/healer and got turned off by the amount of responsibility and effort the roles brings.
As mentioned before, the HW release brought a change in roulette queues in the first months, but fell back shortly in its old role demand.
Carrot all fine and good, but once it starts to be exclusive items or bonuses solely to be received by playing the AIN in roulettes, then the forum will drown in complaints.

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And as I said, that's fine, too. Tanking and healing isn't necessarily everyone's thing. However, there are definitely people who haven't tried out tanking and healing as well and there's nothing wrong with a little incentive to coax them.

Also what would there be to complain about? It's not like anyone could possibly not get those rewards. The only way to get the Warbear mount is by playing Warrior, AIN bonus is even more forgiving than that.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

But here's the thing, short of removing the need for tank/heal/2DPS, how do we go about fixing the queue times? I don't think interesting gameplay is the way to do it, because it's still the responsibility. I think you have to make it worth them taking on the extra responsibility in order to go for it. And I'd say for that, you need incentives.

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The reasons why there's a lack of these roles in these roulettes is simple, and can be applied to nearly every mmo with a western audience : People caused it. And tanks/healers had enough of those people and withdrew from solo queue - Why should they give their best when the others don't, and get away with it?

I know, beating a dead horse and such, but that's how it is.

If you want to fix it, you need to fix the people. Which I don't see happen anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Also what would there be to complain about? It's not like anyone could possibly not get those rewards. The only way to get the Warbear mount is by playing Warrior, AIN bonus is even more forgiving than that.

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Imagine the clusters weren't available to get from hunts and only through the AIN duties - The players who don't want to/can't play tanks or healers are screwed in their progression because of that.
So you have to offer an alternative to acquire them or else the playerbase gets upset. And, frankly, if there is a other way, the majority will mostly likely pursue that path instead of stepping into the roulette, even if that requires more effort than surviving a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Imagine the clusters weren't available to get from hunts and only through the AIN duties - The players who don't want to/can't play tanks or healers are screwed in their progression because of that.
So you have to offer an alternative to acquire them or else the playerbase gets upset. And, frankly, if there is a other way, the majority will mostly likely pursue that path instead of stepping into the roulette, even if that requires more effort than surviving a dungeon.

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You can buy materia with gil from the MB just like you've always been able to do lol. The only thing adding clusters to the roulette has done is slightly lower the prices of materia.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

It's not a requirement. DPS can just solo queue just like healers and tanks do.

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Sure they can. they can also wait upwards of an hour.

I've begun thinking the only real way to incentivize Tanks is top get rid of the illusion of balance. To play the vanguard in a fantasy themed mmo, one should feel the epicness of the role of leader/ hero. What is the Tank if not those things?

https://i.stack.imgur.com/p6uNz.jpg

http://www.rabbitholenetwork.com/wp-...06/609-BOB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WX1sWYXr.jpg?1

http://s003.radikal.ru/i204/1403/63/5fd8e35c9dbb.jpg

I will not pretend to know how to incentivize Healers, however playing up the the theme of the Tank by forgoing the balance nature of it compared to other roles may b e the thing that can pull DPS to the Tank ques. I said it before and stand by it now: implementing Samurai as a DPS was and is a mistake. The jobs theme was certain to be popular and has shown that introducing two DPS at once was a moronic mistake. What is made next to try to pull in Tanks has to be ridiculously fan service based to hope to compete with the draw of Samurai and Red Mage. To this end the OP variant of Tank roles is just a suggestion made by an uninformed of game development, fan of the series. You want someone to play the hero? Make them feel like the hero. That i believe will make for all around faster DPS ques alleviating the current bloat that plagues the DPS legions in practically all mmo's. Giving even more to the DPS is nothing but shortsighted, as it would only serve to continue the roles bloat.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

What is the Tank if not those things?

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Well, the tank is the shield of the party. His role is to protect it.

Protecting something with something else only makes sense if the thing you protect that something with is intrinsically less valuable than the thing you are trying to protect with it. Protecting your life with a shield works well because the shield is disposable but your life is not. Protecting your party with a tank thus, uh... I'll leave the rest to you.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Sure they can. they can also wait upwards of an hour.

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What are you queueing for that takes an hour? I solo queued my blm to 70 last week and never waited more than 20 minutes.

That aside, what's your point? There are more dps than tanks and healers so there is a longer line of them to get into dungeons. If you want instant queues, get a tank/ healer friend or play tank/healer. You don't deserve more exp just because you waited in a line. And if you chose to stand around doing nothing while you waited, that's your problem, not anyone else's.

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

Tanks and healers don't need to join an fc to level fast. Why do dps have to?

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Because that's what happens when you play a job that has high numbers and a limited amount of spots in a dungeon. . .

People really don't need more incentive to play DPS.

Quite the opposite actually.

Do fates while you queue if you have no friends, you'll level just fine.

DPS is flat out the easiest roles, you don't need any additional bonuses for what you do.

For 95% of content, DPS just have to optimize their damage, and not stand in stuff. Tanks and healers need to do twice the work as any of you. Any proper tank should be positioning intelligently, using proper cooldowns to create less stress on the healer, and maximizing his DPS while doing mechanics. Healers have to keep everyone alive or fix people's mistakes ( IE ressing their butts ), do their best on dps, and do mechanics.

Sure, tank and healer can be lazy and not use cooldowns, or not try to actually dps, but if I'm tanking or healing, which most the time I am, I won't accept that and boot you in a heartbeat. No tank should ever think just holding aggro is their job, and no healer should ever think they can stand there 3-5 seconds at a time doing nothing except keeping the tank topped off. It's one thing if you're learning, but thats rarely the case to be so passive. I play DPS some myself, and do high numbers while also doing mechanics, it's honestly not that hard, and thats me playing monk which can be a pain to do optimal on when things are moving.

DPS is the easiest, your mistakes aren't as noticeable unless you're dying due to your own faults. You have the largest portion of the population by a huge margin due to it, and the tank/healer/dps combination is what most traditional MMORPGs follow. If you don't like that there's always action MMOs like vindictus or even guild wars.

So either keep yourself busy while que'ed, try tank/healing yourself ( And don't be lazy about it ), or find some friends, as I always take my girlfriend who dps's with me, and any friends who want to join for quick ques

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Well do you really expect people to stay the role that gets ridiculed and insulted most of the time? I mean look at the healers that don't dps threads and you'll see why the number of healers are down. Then you have that not enjoying big pulls threads and you have some there telling if you don't want to do big pulls, then don't bother being a tank. lol

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I assure you, DPS aren't immune to merciless criticism. There are whole discords and streams where people are quite blunt with their opinions. Just because you can't mention parses in game doesn't mean people willing to bully won't find ways around calling someone out. In fact, DPS are often the first target in EX or Savage PFs. What you'll see is something like "Do I need to like job guides?" or "Do you even know how to play <insert DPS>?" or other passive aggressive remarks which GMs won't do a thing about. And most of the time is plain hyperbolic. I have played this game for two years now, leveling every single role but mostly favoring DPS and rarely see anyone openly ridiculed unless it's a consistent mechanic issue, which is not exclusive to DPS.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

I play all jobs, I am sure a lot do, and those like me would level DPS more because of the bonus, making the discrepancy worse. Saying no one is your false assumption. It is also a strawman to what I was saying (only addressing my "weakest point" and twisting it just a bit and "defeating it", while ignoring everything else.

Healing is stressful when you meet a bad tank, and you find plenty in the DF. I do not like playing healer with bad tank most of all, then comes tank with bad DPS, along with healer in such a situation esp when they don't AoE/RNG LB a megapull. it is frustrating, I rather play DPS and make fast runs happen more often.

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As do I, however I "main" DPS jobs. A career tank isn't going to abruptly level DPS before their tanks nor will they stay on DPS once they've reached max level. What you're saying has nothing to do with my response.

What does this have to do with anything? An EXP bonus after certain queue lengths only effects players who are still leveling. It has no impact once you've reached 70. If you find healers stressful while leveling, you'll find them equally stressful at max.
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Regardless, I hope no one here complains about PotD leveled players. The reason DPS flocked towards it was due to insta-queue. That will happen again the moment the new version releases even if it offers less EXP than Stormblood dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Sure they can. they can also wait upwards of an hour.

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What the hell are you queuing for that takes an hour or more? PvPlol?

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Originally Posted by DubiousDisk

What the hell are you queuing for that takes an hour or more? PvPlol?

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There are times where servers are more or less active. I have seen DPS queues on an off time take up to an hour. So no, not PvP....