Last straw

Nothing. As far as endgame is concerned, though, the monsters will be balanced with Monk/Warrior/BLM/Dragoon DPS in mind. While Archer might come close and beat PGL/LNC/MRD DPS the same won't happen with Jobs because they are better DD's. Archer's Job on the other hand is Bard which isn't even designed to boost ARC's DPS in comparison to rest of the Jobs, but to support them.

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Originally Posted by Coldfire

What's so special about "Jobs" that everyone is like "They will change the whole game!"?

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Can't believe I'm about to answer this guys OT question after he;

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Originally Posted by Coldfire

No OT please <.<
Make an extra thread for that.

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'd me in another thread.

But, depending on:

Bard
Blunt Shot - Physical damage on enemies around target.
Rallying Voice - Increases the maximum HP and certain magic effects of all party members within range.
Ballad of Magi - Gradually restores MP of all party members within range.
Paeon of War - Gradually restores TP of all party members within range.
Minuet of Rigor - Increases physical and magical accuracy of all party members within range.

that abilities cooldown, and;

Black Mage
Convert - Switches current HP and MP values.
Burst - Deals Lightning damage. Combo Action: Thundara Combo Bonus: Increased damage based on your HP.
Sleepga - Inflicts target and all enemies in range with Sleep.
Flare - Deals Fire damage to nearby enemies. Additional effect: "Damage over time"
Freeze - Deals Ice damage to the target. Additional effect: "Enmity down"

those abilities cooldown,

you may see a ton of BRD, BLM BLM BLM BLM BLM BLM BLM groups. Completely changing the way the game can been played thus far (not by class stacking, but gameplay). Regardless, even if those abilities are moderated to not be super OP (sleep resistant mobs, retardedly long cooldowns), there will still be some complete 'Relearning of the class/jobs' period of time when the new patch hits.

My post wasn't even off topic in that other thread.:confused:

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Originally Posted by Rogue

Have been consistantly turned down for mog battle partys because they are looking for arc only DD... apparently because of the need to avoid AOE attacks.

cant believe its come to this again.. its rediculous lol.

i give up trying to play this game.

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Bad players with blind pride for their standartized achievements and a sense of value in victory through any means will always exist, and in this game, as I hear it was in XI, they'll exclude any class that isn't optimal, any player that dies a couple of times, any character with non optimal gear, if not just dismiss the player altogether if it doesn't have all level 50's.

My personal advise (that I have been following myself), is to find guys that play well and don't hold the characteristics I described above, and in due time complete that content. Some might still need specific class or enhanced equipament, as for instance the moogle fight being a notch up from Ifrit wouldn't stray from it's reason to be if it required gear filled with materia, but definetly in a group of friends there wouldn't be such excluding postures.

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Originally Posted by Alcobrum

LET THE RETARD LEAVE! Why does everything have to be a discussion for a week. he doesnt want to play/does want to play but wishes a fucking huge discusssion. do not feed it anymore and yes i understand i am doing exactly that

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Fascinating for two reasons, First I thought I was the only ass here, and second, I thought I was the only one with common sense here.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

They will change how Archer plays, differentiating itself from the rest of the DPS classes by becoming a buffer.

The rest of the DPS Jobs are still a question mark, but the most obvious current flaw of ARC dominancy over short-range DPS taken care of.

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Unfortunately for you, some ARCs out there are planning to just keep shooting arrows, instead of turning selves into an MP/HP bitch for your party. Shocking, ain't it?

There is really only one problem, and that is as a ranged/backline DPS, Archer shouldn't do nearly as much damage as any melee DPS. That's all there is to it.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

There is really only one problem, and that is as a ranged/backline DPS, Archer shouldn't do nearly as much damage as any melee DPS. That's all there is to it.

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Neither should Black Mages then...
It's ok if they do more damage than melee. Arrows cost gil. If the economy was actually well thought out, there would be a heavy demand for arrows and that would keep carpenters busy forever. Unfortunately, we got FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Discourage it they have.

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Sorry, but I don't see how they discouraged it.

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Originally Posted by Yonnji

Unfortunately for you, some ARCs out there are planning to just keep shooting arrows, instead of turning selves into an MP/HP bitch for your party. Shocking, ain't it?

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Unfortunately for me? Other Jobs will do more damage and ARC's only saving grace is not being utilized.

They can keep being stubborn, it makes me wonder though- who would be dumb enough to invite a subpar DD with no other redeeming qualities? Unfortunately for people like them, for the reasons stated above I'm not going to do so. Shocking, ain't it?

Actually, it may be more likely that I will be the Bard doing my job properly and getting invited while laughing at the princess Archers who have to beg to be able to participate. So unfortunate for me.

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Originally Posted by Rogue

Have been consistantly turned down for mog battle partys because they are looking for arc only DD... apparently because of the need to avoid AOE attacks.

cant believe its come to this again.. its rediculous lol.

i give up trying to play this game.

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Stop crying, make your own party. Only the faction of elitists ask for that. Just yesterday I was in an usual party for Ifrit and we did really good (best runs I did so far).

My advice: stop being a sheep and play the way you want with other people like you.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Unfortunately for me? Other Jobs will do more damage and ARC's only saving grace is not being utilized.

They can keep being stubborn, it makes me wonder though- who would be dumb enough to invite a subpar DD with no other redeeming qualities? Unfortunately for people like them, for the reasons stated above I'm not going to do so. Shocking, ain't it?

Actually, it may be more likely that I will be the Bard doing my job properly and getting invited while laughing at the princess Archers who have to beg to be able to participate. I am so unfortunate.

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Wait a moment, I just realized something. Name: Captain Madagascar World: Selbina MRD: 26 MRD: 8
Hmmmm Interesting. . .
Though your point still stands.

Perhaps because these aren't some FFXIV-unique lvl50-specific Japan-Only-MMO concepts we are talking about here.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Perhaps because these aren't some FFXIV-unique lvl50-specific Japan-Only-MMO concepts we are talking about here.

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No, I just find it interesting that you have posted about lvl 50 content before when you aren't even lvl 50 yet. . .

I had previously asked what's to stop someone from playing archer rather than bard in a full group.

Now the flip-side: what's to stop someone from playing bard (or any job) when solo?

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Originally Posted by Alkoun

I had previously asked what's to stop someone from playing archer rather than bard in a full group.

Now the flip-side: what's to stop someone from playing bard (or any job) when solo?

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Lack of role diversity? You need to be a tank, healer and DD at the same time when you solo, and Jobs only excel in one.

What good is excellent healing capabilities going to help you if your DPS suffers as a result rendering your cure potency meaningless?

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No, I just find it interesting that you have posted about lvl 50 content before when you aren't even lvl 50 yet. . .

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If what I say is inaccurate I am sure people will correct me. My stats aren't hidden.

There aren't too many things that don't deal with MMO's in general and not just high level XIV environment though, so other than being a good excuse to ignore me regardless of the accuracy of my statements it is hardly relevant. I am smarter than to argue outside of what I already know.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

If what I say is inaccurate I am sure people will correct me. My stats aren't hidden.

There aren't too many things that don't deal with MMO's in general and not just high level XIV environment though, so other than being a good excuse to ignore me regardless of the accuracy of my statements it is hardly relevant. I am smarter than to argue outside of what I already know.

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When people don't know what to add to reinforce their debate, they quickly point at peoples job level. They have nothing else to add at this point.

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Originally Posted by Lucifer

When people don't know what to add to reinforce their debate, they quickly point at peoples job level. They have nothing else to add at this point.

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Hrm? I'm not really debating with him. More like watching were this thread goes. I just noticed while looking under his avatar that he was a low level. I was confused because I swore that he had talked about endgame content before so I checked his character and found he only had one other battle class at an even lower level. I just found it interesting is all.
Talking about his job level wouldn't make much sense for my debate either because my highest is 33 CNJ anyway. >_>;

.......................................

2.0 will fix it.

quite frankly in a game where lvling is this easy, yea the solution is pretty much lvl more classes so you have more options.

Quit crying.

Classes are balanced.

If you can't get invites because nobody wants you then either make some friends or make yourself desirable.

Honestly lets see why Arc is better for your precious moogle fight:

Arc:
Ranged DD
Combos Based on Range not direction
Ability to move and shoot
Potent damage combos with right sub classes
mobility to avoid AoE
shadowbind
decent mp pools to pinch cure
excellent dps over all

all other dd
damage combos based on direction and proximity while moogles move frequently and lag leads to many missed combos
AoE magnets
poor dps due to damaged missed by moving targets
AoE dmg results in cCns with lower mp or dd stopping to cure him/herself

Cant imagine why Arcs would be choosen over any other melee dps for this fight.

On the bright side there is always Ifrit and his weapons are better. Oh wait you need Thms for quick kills on that now. Honestly deal with it people will pick a win setup over an experiment any day of the week unless that is of course they have already won enough where it doesn't matter.

Player base problem, etc

right tool for the job

you can't make a job where every tool is right
or do you want a mob that is vulnerable to each specific class for a % of his HP?
will that make you feel all special about yourself (and your class)?
Should all mobs have this outline?

there will always be the most efficient way to do things - lots of players will always take the path of least resistance

this issue is not unique to ffxiv

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Quit crying.

Classes are balanced.

If you can't get invites because nobody wants you then either make some friends or make yourself desirable.

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Actually, classes aren't balanced at all yet, even SE has said this. We have at least 2 more patches to go before the combat job system is at a place SE is happy with. I fail to understand how you have missed this information since they have said it time and again. 1.20 represents a little under HALF the class reforms they want. The other half we are scheduled to get when they drop the new jobs on us in 1.21.

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Originally Posted by Rogue

Learn to tank? i presume that means you have summized that i dont take glad because i cant tank?

i can tank very well thanks but the problem is each party only needs ONE gladiator..

and also you have completely missed my point... or just ignored it.

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Tanking in this game has turned into a privilege only the trusted, and proven can do. Not that I'm complaining. I always tank, just saying that's how it seems. Trying to tank in any party outside of my LS where I know no one is like for lack of a better expression, pulling teeth. And that's coming from a main tank with x2 materia in all my armor!

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Actually, classes aren't balanced at all yet, even SE has said this. We have at least 2 more patches to go before the combat job system is at a place SE is happy with. I fail to understand how you have missed this information since they have said it time and again. 1.20 represents a little under HALF the class reforms they want. The other half we are scheduled to get when they drop the new jobs on us in 1.21.

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Actually, classes are balanced. Classes are complete as far as reforms go. Implementing Jobs has little to do with classes. When Jobs are implemented, current endgame content will become more well-rounded as far as party-makeup goes. I am well aware of every detail pertaining to the Job system updates especially that we have coming.

What this thread is about is the stacking of ARC in the Moogle fight. What I am saying is that it is not due to class balance. ARC is not overpowered. It is simply the safest, and in turn the easiest DD to play at the moment. It actually has the 2nd lowest DPS ceiling out of all the DDs, beating only GLA.

Yeah, I think they really need to stop making combat situations favor one class over another. That's not balance, that's stupidity in design.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Yeah, I think they really need to stop making combat situations favor one class over another. That's not balance, that's stupidity in design.

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Impossible. They can lessen the effect, but players will always find a status quo.

Moogle fight is a prime example. ARC isn't the best DD, but it's the safest. Also the easiest to learn. Come 1.20, with all the classes being completely altered, players had to re-learn how to play each one effectively. Only natural that the winning strat involved using the safest and easiest DD.

Get a player who can work his combos on a close-range DD class effectively and knows how to workaround lag or even use it to his advantage (I've developed some tricks myself after extensive practice and testing) and they will surpass the DPS of the average ARC DD by a noticeable margin.

Content favoring a class isn't a problem if the difference isn't detrimental. When content disqualifies a class, that becomes a problem. It also helps to remember that Full Party content is being designed with Jobs in mind, despite being released before Jobs.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Quit crying.

Classes are balanced.

If you can't get invites because nobody wants you then either make some friends or make yourself desirable.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Actually, classes aren't balanced at all yet, even SE has said this. We have at least 2 more patches to go before the combat job system is at a place SE is happy with. I fail to understand how you have missed this information since they have said it time and again. 1.20 represents a little under HALF the class reforms they want. The other half we are scheduled to get when they drop the new jobs on us in 1.21.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Actually, classes are balanced. Classes are complete as far as reforms go. Implementing Jobs has little to do with classes. When Jobs are implemented, current endgame content will become more well-rounded as far as party-makeup goes. I am well aware of every detail pertaining to the Job system updates especially that we have coming.

What this thread is about is the stacking of ARC in the Moogle fight. What I am saying is that it is not due to class balance. ARC is not overpowered. It is simply the safest, and in turn the easiest DD to play at the moment. It actually has the 2nd lowest DPS ceiling out of all the DDs, beating only GLA.

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I would wait for the Jobs to come before talking about balancement =)
Also remember that we miss come classes, like Musketeer, Arcanist and something either a Pet Class, a Scouter or something else.
For now, I'd say they're pretty balanced. It just saddens me that the attribute Evasion isn't that effective. My Pugilist friend had multiple Materia of Evasion+. and tanking Ifrit and the Great Buffalo we noticed he took all the hits. All The Hits!

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Originally Posted by Renshi

I would wait for the Jobs to come before talking about balancement =)
Also remember that we miss come classes, like Musketeer, Arcanist and something either a Pet Class, a Scouter or something else.
For now, I'd say they're pretty balanced. It just saddens me that the attribute Evasion isn't that effective. My Pugilist friend had multiple Materia of Evasion+. and tanking Ifrit and the Great Buffalo we noticed he took all the hits. All The Hits!

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Yea, it just seems to be the case with Ifrit that you barely ever, if at all, evade anything of his; even with Featherfoot. I've evaded lots versus Lv50+ mobs and moogles though even without Featherfoot with my evasion gear.

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Originally Posted by Yonnji

Unfortunately for you, some ARCs out there are planning to just keep shooting arrows, instead of turning selves into an MP/HP bitch for your party. Shocking, ain't it?

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Welcome to FFXIV, this is not FFXI.

We don't know how Bard even works yet. For all you know, you're going to hit one button to pop a 2 minute duration song and then go right back to your damage dealing rotation the way you've been doing.

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Originally Posted by Yonnji

Unfortunately for you, some ARCs out there are planning to just keep shooting arrows, instead of turning selves into an MP/HP bitch for your party. Shocking, ain't it?

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So a class with sub-par DPS compared to other classes - let alone their empowered Jobs - as opposed to a highly desirable buffing Job with unique buffs unavailable through other means that can also put out equal or higher DPS than it's class counterpart?

Good luck getting into any Full Party of Jobs with that attitude. ARC isn't getting a DPS focused Job. If you leveled ARC to DPS only, you've been informed well in advance that the first Job being released for it is not a DPS-centric one. Perhaps, and this is likely, they will implement a Sniper/Ranger Job accessible by ARC in the future, but be forewarned that this is not a situation one can best by perseverance.

You simply will not be welcome in any competitive Full Party tackling endgame content after 1.21 on ARC. Plain and simple.

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You simply will not be welcome in any competitive Full Party tackling endgame content after 1.21 on ARC. Plain and simple.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JORJg8XZiJU

Sums it up pretty nicely.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Perhaps, and this is likely, they will implement a Sniper/Ranger Job accessible by ARC in the future, but be forewarned that this is not a situation one can best by perseverance.

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It is the situation one can vote with his wallet. If SE can't give me a dedicated ranged DD job, I can always bid them adieu. And I won't be alone.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

You simply will not be welcome in any competitive Full Party tackling endgame content after 1.21 on ARC. Plain and simple.

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What endgame? Besides, since the last update ARC are doing quite nicely in Ifrit fight. And are actively sought after for Moogle King. You should try to keep up with the latest news.

ARC could already do well enough in Ifrit before 1.20, they are sought cause they are the easiest to play, that is all, they have no advantage to other classes(DPS-wise).

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Originally Posted by Yonnji

It is the situation one can vote with his wallet. If SE can't give me a dedicated ranged DD job, I can always bid them adieu. And I won't be alone.

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That is your prerogative.

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What endgame? Besides, since the last update ARC are doing quite nicely in Ifrit fight. And are actively sought after for Moogle King. You should try to keep up with the latest news.

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I do keep up with the latest news. I am the latest news lol. Doing the latest content is my primary business in this game and has been for a while. You'd know that if you kept up with my posts in this very thread even.

They are sought out due to their ease of play and safety in the Moogle fight. This effects PUGs more than LS parties, due to PUGs consisting of people that probably haven't played with each other before and thus shouting only for ARCs to make the party safe rather than sorry.

That is besides the point however. With the release of jobs, there will be absolutely no reason to take an ARC over a BRD. This is my point.

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Originally Posted by ShadowCadja

ARC could already do well enough in Ifrit before 1.20, they are sought cause they are the easiest to play, that is all, they have no advantage to other classes(DPS-wise).

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Thank you for disproving his argument for me. As you said it yourself, the desirability of an ARC in the "endgame" hinges not just on the superior damage alone. Bravo!

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Originally Posted by Yonnji

Thank you for disproving his argument for me. As you said it yourself, the desirability of an ARC in the "endgame" hinges not just on the superior damage alone. Bravo!

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Really? I've been preaching that for pages. So he disproves me by agreeing with me?

What I'm telling you is ARC will put out at least the same DPS as well as maintain it's ease of play and safety while gaining vital party buffs by switching to BRD.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

That is besides the point however. With the release of jobs, there will be absolutely no reason to take an ARC over a BRD. This is my point.[/COLOR]

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At this piont it is still no more then your personal, yet unproven conjecture, Mr. the latest news. Either way, it is irrelevant.

I can play the game the way I want. Or I can take my toys and go elsewhere. But I can never play the game the way you want me to play. Not gonna happen.

I'm sure there will be plenty of people willing to play your MP/TP bitch. I'm also sure there will be a few who'd rather quit, if a true ranged DD job/class is not forthcoming.