Charging for runs.

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Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

Hold on now.

While I believe it to be fine for players to try and sell queues as their tank or healer, you make it sound like each character is stuck to one role of the trinity. Characters that only have a high lvl DPS still have the capability to play and level a tank or healer, and the other two roles have similar choices. This isn't WoW, where your character may be stuck with only certain roles.

A small argument may be made that people with a high level DPS job have a possibility of sharing more gear with other DPS jobs, but that's pretty trivial when you consider that it's very easy to get decent gear for the MSQ.

No, it's not just the DPS-centered players getting a new job, everybody is getting two more dps jobs they may play as.

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Look if more people played tank we get 1 dps one tank. Nothing stops them now as welll.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Welp what a nice community we have. :)

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- The same goes for the EX kill run that are sold on PF, why not just do them for free to help other players instead of charging them 1M the run ?
- Or for the resell of houses, why not just abandon the plot instead of charging xM to press a button ?
- Or for the crafters selling a clic even if you give them the mats for a craft
The community has always been greedy and not helpfull :D

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Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

Hold on now.

While I believe it to be fine for players to try and sell queues as their tank or healer, you make it sound like each character is stuck to one role of the trinity. Characters that only have a high lvl DPS still have the capability to play and level a tank or healer, and the other two roles have similar choices. This isn't WoW, where your character may be stuck with only certain roles.

A small argument may be made that people with a high level DPS job have a possibility of sharing more gear with other DPS jobs, but that's pretty trivial when you consider that it's very easy to get decent gear for the MSQ.

No, it's not just the DPS-centered players getting a new job, everybody is getting two more dps jobs they may play as.

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Not talking about gear or anything, just that some of us do not like to play DD at all for wathever reasons, for example, I'm probably the worst DD on my server, never understood a cycle although I tried and people explained me 3 times what an opener is and I still don't get it.
On the other hand, it takes mevery little time to be a pretty decent healer (I could even say a pretty good one but I don't want to be arrogant ^^") so I tend to only play healer because I'm good at it and keep being bullied and insulted when I try to play my crapy DPS ^^"
It's just not the kind of gameplay I can handle, like some of us will never be abble to tank or heal, no need to be ashamed about it, some of us are just better at some things that others and vice and versa.

What I'm trying to say is that, if you never play a DD, you are screwed xD

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Originally Posted by Celef

Not talking about gear or anything, just that some of us do not like to play DD at all for wathever reasons, for example, I'm probably the worst DD on my server, never understood a cycle although I tried and people explained me 3 times what an opener is and I still don't get it.
On the other hand, it takes mevery little time to be a pretty decent healer (I could even say a pretty good one but I don't want to be arrogant ^^") so I tend to only play healer because I'm good at it and keep being bullied and insulted when I try to play my crapy DPS ^^"
It's just not the kind of gameplay I can handle, like some of us will never be abble to tank or heal, no need to be ashamed about it, some of us are just better at some things that others and vice and versa.

What I'm trying to say is that, if you never play a DD, you are screwed xD

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Okay, I sort of understand it. But keep this in mind, the different DPS classes tend to play extremely different depending on which sub category they are in.

A Monk, for example, plays extremely different than a BLM. Much more than say, the difference between a SCH and a AST.

It's harder to spot the differences between the different healers and the different tanks because they must always have certain characteristics such as high base defense, defensive CD's, high-threat for tanks. Where dps just needs to output high damage to be a dps, everything else is apt to change.

In HW we got a tank, a marksmen dps, and a healer. Which leaves out the caster dps and the melee dps (though you could argue that NIN was added as part of HW). Adding these two new jobs in also fills the gap of stat focuses.

Right now we have three classes for the following main stats;
VIT (3 tanks)
MND (3 healers)
DEX (BRD, MCH, NIN)

But only two for STR (MNK DRG) and INT (BLM SMN). SAM will be a STR based class no doubt, and Red Mage will be an INT based. Neatly filling in the gaps of primary stats.

Don't really get it. How does someone charging for a run have any impact on anyone? If you don't want to pay for a tank's services, then don't, just queue as normal?

Isn't it fairly standard economics, whenever there is a demand for something, eg tank services, a market is created for people to supply it?

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

Don't really get it. How does someone charging for a run have any impact on anyone? If you don't want to pay for a tank's services, then don't, just queue as normal?

Isn't it fairly standard economics, whenever there is a demand for something, eg tank services, a market is created for people to supply it?

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I believe people are worried that Tanks will now be selling their runs as a method of punishing DPS players. And while some people are trying to send a message to SE this way, I believe most people that would be selling runs will be because the demand will be so high that it will actually be possible (and lucrative).

I'm not sure that there is such a huge market for it but I might be wrong.
Idk about you guys but I have tanks/heals in my friendslist, Linkshells and there are some in FCs too so go out there make some friends and you are good to go.

I think people misunderstand. I'm not out to punish dps players. I just want to make gil, and with two new jobs having to wait in queue why not take advantage of the fact I've leveled healers and tanks.

Don't worry there will be tanks and healers that will do free runs just to oppose the person trying to sell runs, I have seen it happen in the past.

I play at weird hours so maybe not I tend to play 7 am to 12 pm central time. Haha

I don't think anyone is talking about punishing DPS players. As others mentioned, incentivizing tanks with some extra gil would pull in tanks that otherwise would not be running at all. If anything, charging for runs is helping DPS by bringing in more tanks and taking DPS out of the que.... so shorter ques for those that don't pay and more tanks tanking overall. The 'adventurer in need' bonus already does this. I do my leveling roulette ever day because I get ~10k gil, 2.5k GC seals (another 40k gil afte selling mats), and some tomes I'm putting towards anima weapon. Without that bonus, I'd be doing other things more valuable to me (expert dungeons, frontlines, working on craft/gather, ect).

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Originally Posted by Silica-chan

I'm not sure that there is such a huge market for it but I might be wrong.
Idk about you guys but I have tanks/heals in my friendslist, Linkshells and there are some in FCs too so go out there make some friends and you are good to go.

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This! Unless the DPS ques get really crazy, the market for paid runs will be small. Most people prioritize running with their friends. Selling runs seems like a high drama activity with at best, modest pay. If I need gil, I'll run maps with friends, solo some choice lv 50 dungeons for seals and materials, or do some mining... all of which likely has a higher payoff with lower stress. I'd rather run dungeons with friends, or at least without the pressure of being hired help!

I don't begrudge any tanks selling their services there. Everyone has a right to find their gil making niches in the game. I'd even be a little tempted if the gil reward went up to 200k+, but running for friends would still come first.

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Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

Okay, I sort of understand it. But keep this in mind, the different DPS classes tend to play extremely different depending on which sub category they are in.

A Monk, for example, plays extremely different than a BLM. Much more than say, the difference between a SCH and a AST.

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True, but at least DD have the possibility to try a new gameplay :) while we don't ^^"

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Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

I believe people are worried that Tanks will now be selling their runs as a method of punishing DPS players. And while some people are trying to send a message to SE this way, I believe most people that would be selling runs will be because the demand will be so high that it will actually be possible (and lucrative).

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Don't know about the others but it's exactly how I see this. Don't really care about the money (like I said, I would do it for free anyway) but if the queues get to 1h for DPS and they are "forced" to pay, they will complain too and SE will, eventually, get the message that it was not a good idea to add 2 more jobs to an already heavy representated population of players.
I mean....you just need to play the game to realise that queues are already long for DPS how can you possibly think that adding 2 more of them won't have a negative impact on the game ? ^^"

I dont think people are doing it to punish dps players. Like me, they are doing it to take advantage of the situation. When HW was released, several dps got an opportunity to have almost instant queues and quick leveling opportunities. When I was leveling my DRK at HW launch I had almost 5-10 minute queue wait times.

So unless they drastically increase the leveling xp from fates, or PotD, I highly doubt there wont be an increase in dps queue times.

Not just tanks but healers too will be selling their queues as well.

This isnt a bad thing at all. But if there are 30min to 1hour+ queue times for dps on SB launch and continue to be that way after a month or 2, then yea we probably have made a problem, and then we will see several charging for runs continue after the first 2 weeks.

There will only be a problem if existing tanks and healers swap permanently to SAM/RDM... Anecdotal evidence, yeah, but the ones I know who play those roles seriously as their "main" have no interest in either of the two new jobs beyond leveling them for completion. Most of my tank and heal buddies are excited at the prospective re-balancing we're going to get, rather than spiteful and seeking to "punish" DPS mains.

Man, this is still going. . .

OP: Sell your runs. It's not against any rules, though it may be seen as distasteful by some. Others won't care and will pay you, but largely, most players will simply ask their friends, or make new ones in pursuit of leveling together. Many players might even work out an exchange system (i.e. I'll tank New Dungeon X for you if you tank Y Instance for me. Cross Server PF is going to help out with this as well. PotD, if still relevant will be the "quick" option if queues are bad, and there's MSQ, leves, FATEs, random side quests, etc.

All in all, I won't say it won't be a lucrative market, but I strongly doubt it'll be a busy one.

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Originally Posted by Celef

True, but at least DD have the possibility to try a new gameplay :) while we don't ^^"

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A MCH or BRD main may not like the idea of playing a melee or caster DPS. So this player would get no satisfaction from SAM or RedMage (and they would need to suffer through the DPS queues). Like I said, dps is split into different categories that differ greatly from each other. Don't assume that every DPS player likes all the different styles of DPS.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Don't worry there will be tanks and healers that will do free runs just to oppose the person trying to sell runs, I have seen it happen in the past.

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Well win win, so whys people complaining? Due to people wanting to sell heals/tanking, we now get a normal DF from players tanking and healing in protest :P

If there is a market people will make gil from it. If there isn't they won't. I don't think charging gil to punish dps is a good idea. The queues themselves are going to make things unpleasant enough without being petty about it. However on the flipside if a healer or tank is willing to run dps in long queues through dungeons they wouldn't otherwise be queuing for and charging a fee that seems fine to me. Tanking and healing isn't a public service. We all play this game for fun.

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Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

A MCH or BRD main may not like the idea of playing a melee or caster DPS. So this player would get no satisfaction from SAM or RedMage (and they would need to suffer through the DPS queues). Like I said, dps is split into different categories that differ greatly from each other. Don't assume that every DPS player likes all the different styles of DPS.

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The same could be said for healers. SCH and WHM play drastically different. You have never had an issue with the balance between SCH and WHM because they fill drastically different roles. The whole balance thing only became an issue when you had AST trying to compete with both.

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Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

A MCH or BRD main may not like the idea of playing a melee or caster DPS. So this player would get no satisfaction from SAM or RedMage (and they would need to suffer through the DPS queues). Like I said, dps is split into different categories that differ greatly from each other. Don't assume that every DPS player likes all the different styles of DPS.

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This is why theyd be wise to take advantage of the tank/healer mains who are just going to start msq instead of levelling a brand new dps job. It would be smart if dps mains would just push story. Last time, it took a week to get drk up to the expansion. It
ll be the same for SAM/RDM. So I will probably zerg on my smn till msq is done. Then work on RDM where at least i have armory bonus(and end game gear)
ll

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Originally Posted by Belhi

The same could be said for healers. SCH and WHM play drastically different. You have never had an issue with the balance between SCH and WHM because they fill drastically different roles. The whole balance thing only became an issue when you had AST trying to compete with both.

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I disagree to some extent. The differences between the healing classes are not to the same degree as the differences between the sub categories of DPS.

All healers need to have large expensive heals, a cleanse, efficient heals, AOE heals, and "oh shit" large instant heals that have some sort of CD. All heal classes have the same sort of tactic, albeit with different spice on top.

If everyone has taken damage, you spam your AOE heals. If the damage is noticeable but not urgent, you use your variety of efficient heal. If someone has taken some serious damage and needs to be brought to max asap, "oh shit" heals. Etc.

While DPS, the only thing they need to have the same is that they deal single-target damage and multi-target damage in some way shape or form. Everything else can be different.

A MNK and a BLM, for example, play completely different from each other. MNK is forced to follow a 1->2->3->1 rotation constantly while wiggling between the enemy's flank and back. BLM wants to stay still as long as possible at a range so that they can get more casts in while they play a metronome style of fire/ice depending on their mana.

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Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

I disagree to some extent. The differences between the healing classes are not to the same degree as the differences between the sub categories of DPS.

All healers need to have large expensive heals, a cleanse, efficient heals, AOE heals, and "oh shit" large instant heals that have some sort of CD. All heal classes have the same sort of tactic, albeit with different spice on top.

If everyone has taken damage, you spam your AOE heals. If the damage is noticeable but not urgent, you use your variety of efficient heal. If someone has taken some serious damage and needs to be brought to max asap, "oh shit" heals. Etc.

While DPS, the only thing they need to have the same is that they deal single-target damage and multi-target damage in some way shape or form. Everything else can be different.

A MNK and a BLM, for example, play completely different from each other. MNK is forced to follow a 1->2->3->1 rotation constantly while wiggling between the enemy's flank and back. BLM wants to stay still as long as possible at a range so that they can get more casts in while they play a metronome style of fire/ice depending on their mana.

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Are you seriously arguing that Mitigation healing and Throughput healing are more similar than how a BRD and a BLM play? SCH is about keeping the group from taking damage and WHM is about bringing heal back up. As I said before, you never see an issue with SCH and WHM competing with each other for a healing spot because if you have a Throughput healer or a Mitigation healer you don't want another one in the Full party. There is a reason people aren't too keen when they get 2 SCHs in a full party.

theres nothing wrong with it though it is a bit unsavory in my opinion but hey its up to you i men people sell runs all the time sometimes of obscene amounts of gil depending on the content and if you price it reasonable you could make a killing imo just dont be one of those jerks thats like sure ill run you through it for like 2 mill gill or 100k per person or something like that i mean max id go would be a tasteful like 20k per person or some ware along those lines i meen think about it 20k per person you run 2 dps thats 40 k a run and if you do that a few times a day like say 10 times thats 200k and do that for like the month of launch your looking at 6mill for 10 runs a day for 30 days thats not a bad haul for easy content

forgive the spelling

~ruby

and after rereading what i wrote lol it would be 12mill not 6, 6 is if it was 1 dps 12 if your running 2 at a time

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Are you seriously arguing that Mitigation healing and Throughput healing are more similar than how a BRD and a BLM play? SCH is about keeping the group from taking damage and WHM is about bringing heal back up. As I said before, you never see an issue with SCH and WHM competing with each other for a healing spot because if you have a Throughput healer or a Mitigation healer you don't want another one in the Full party. There is a reason people aren't too keen when they get 2 SCHs in a full party.

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And I am talking about styles of play, not the result that occurs.

If we're talking about the result, most DPS is the same, since they all deal damage (some more AOE oriented than others).

I'm talking about the actions of the player.

End result difference between throughput healing and shield healing? Tons. Which is why groups want one of each. But what is the actual play-style difference between giving a large heal after big damage and giving a shield heal before big damage? About a second of delay.

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Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

And I am talking about styles of play, not the result that occurs.

If we're talking about the result, most DPS is the same, since they all deal damage (some more AOE oriented than others).

I'm talking about the actions of the player.

End result difference between throughput healing and shield healing? Tons. Which is why groups want one of each. But what is the actual play-style difference between giving a large heal after big damage and giving a shield heal before big damage? About a second of delay.

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I am going to respectfully disagree with you on that part. You could argue that range and melee are different but caster and range really aren't particularly now BRDs and MCH have cast times. You use you AoEs when you need to AoE, single target when you need to single target, use procs when you have the chance and apart from that try to maintain your rotation.

If healing was all the same then AST wouldn't be the balance mess that it is.

ill pay no more than 30k a run. If its too little, ill use DF.

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Originally Posted by Derio

When I was leveling my DRK at HW launch I had almost 5-10 minute queue wait times.

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You GOT to be kidding me 5-10 minute que time... HOW HORRIBLE OH MY LORD. Kappa

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I am going to respectfully disagree with you on that part. You could argue that range and melee are different but caster and range really aren't particularly now BRDs and MCH have cast times. You use you AoEs when you need to AoE, single target when you need to single target, use procs when you have the chance and apart from that try to maintain your rotation.

If healing was all the same then AST wouldn't be the balance mess that it is.

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Except the differences between healers mechanically is much more narrow than DPS.

A WHM has a specific action for a large heal, small heal, aoe heal. Sch much the same, while supplementing with their fairies actions. But mechanically you have a specific ability for these actions.

A BRD to perform properly and a BLM to perform properly are very mechanically different. They have very different ways of reaching the end result of taking down a large group of enemies or a single one.

Similarities of DPS will expand among Stat-types instead of distance of engagement. In a sense DRG(STR) and BLM(INT) aren't that different that their base mechanics being long combo chains, but beyond that they become much different. The same as MCH(DEX) and SMN(INT) both utilize an ammo mechanic.resource management, then branch out.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Except the differences between healers mechanically is much more narrow than DPS.

A WHM has a specific action for a large heal, small heal, aoe heal. Sch much the same, while supplementing with their fairies actions. But mechanically you have a specific ability for these actions.

A BRD to perform properly and a BLM to perform properly are very mechanically different. They have very different ways of reaching the end result of taking down a large group of enemies or a single one.

Similarities of DPS will expand among Stat-types instead of distance of engagement. In a sense DRG(STR) and BLM(INT) aren't that different that their base mechanics being long combo chains, but beyond that they become much different. The same as MCH(DEX) and SMN(INT) both utilize an ammo mechanic.resource management, then branch out.

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If healers are so similar then why have they been such a headache to balance for SE? They have been trying all expansion and in the end they just dealt with it by overbuffing AST. Your saying a class that specialises in mitigation, who's emergency heals work of a charge mechanic and who manages a pet is the same as one that just spams direct heals?

Your role in a group as a mitigation healer is notably different to main healing. You focus on minimizing burst damage while correcting with emergency heals and spot heals while trying to contribute to dps. How you do a fight is functionally quite different.

BRD AoE and BLM AoE aren't that different. Fundamentally both are spamming AoE attacks while maintaining a buff.

My point is if you want to start to split roles into categories you will find that it can apply to healing and tanking to due to how the meta works. I am not arguing that the dps getting two roles is unfair. Its disappointing but you can justify the reasoning to the end of time and it wont stop it being disappointing. Its just that with the meta, these justifications seem pretty hollow.

I am more annoyed that people seem to be trying to justify it than I am disappointed with the lack of a tank and healer. I also found Yoshi P's reassurance annoying cause frankly it also sounds pretty lame. Getting balanced Jobs isn't something we should be thankful for. Its something we should be expecting. Were they not going to balance the Jobs properly if we did get a new tank or healer? Same with the 'breathing new life into the roles'. Everyone is getting that. That's not something Tanks and Healers should be extra thankful for.

Now maybe he meant they have major overhauls to how the Tanking and Healer meta work but I am not going to believe that till I see it. Their design choices with Tanking and Healing were pretty hit and miss in HW and that doesn't show me they have learned how to deal with the meta design. If in two months they bring out some amazing overhaul and if so, fantastic. But I don't think that is what they have actually promised and until then I am going to remain sceptical.

Tanks and Healers are perfectly entitled to be disappointed. Currently the new Jobs are about half of what has been offered for us to get hyped about and for people not interested in dps they are both duds. Let them be disappointed and stop trying to justify the decision.

All this is kind of beside the point. How tanks and healers feel about it won't change the length of the queues. Tanks and healers will queue up for as many dungeons as they feel like doing and that is just the reality. Tanks and healers don't get a new job and DF queues for dps queuing without a tank or healer will be long.

And the demand will inspire tanks and healers looking for ways to make gil offer up their services. Some might do it out of spite but most I think will be doing it because the opportunity exists.

So how many of this tanks will you ask to not play the new jobs to help you?

If the wait time is 30m in the longest pont then ok. If it 1h+ then pay more like 100k or wait.
Its nothing personal just a bisnes.

I wish I could just get commendation but pre made won't let that happen.
I'm 1k commendation away from hitting my 3k.
Who knows maybe the dps are thankful in DF an give it on so I'm getting my 3 tanks up even before any other class.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Dots

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You are trying to imply a lot of things, and I mean a LOT. Not to mention missing the big point here. If you play whatever you play solely because of its role then that's fine for you, but for many it does boil down to how the Job actually functions. WHM and SCH have very similar mechanics with elements differentiating them. They are not exactly the same, but you cannot look at them and say they do have similar base playstyle. Its when you then incorporate unique elements into the Job then that balance can become an issue.

And no, BRD and BLM AoE are different. When taking out mobs you don't just spam the love out of your AoE as BRD, that's a very quick way to lose TP and be useless.

How a Job operates on a mechanical level is a huge point for players. Just as the aesthetic appeal either draws in or deters people. Someone who hates the long combo chain of a BLM and ammo/resource management of a SMN then has had no option for a magic-aesthetic up til now. How RDM functions may now offer them that choice. Same goes for the fighter-type STR Jobs. Up til now they have had only two options. That is why they were given the priority.

A Tank and Healer could have been added but they seem to be in a rut with what to do with both roles now. Splitting the roles into much more defined main/off causes a problem in pug content where the queues cannot always ensure you will get a main and not an off, or two mains or two offs. Could also be they just dont have anything on the board that's mechanically apart from what we already have. Maybe the balance topic is just covering up the fact they are drawing blanks on what to do next, or maybe they actually have a plan but entails needing to work on several factors for future releases.

They didnt add newctank or heaer becouse they did the most retarded thing ever.
They look what people play more. Like you dont ned to even look it up to know peole play more dps. Hell there 7 dps.just from that there be more dps players.

Too lazy and not merchant enough to make a profit off of selling MSQ runs.
Embarassing for a Lalafell really.
However, I'm pretty sure I'll be bullied into helping all my friends queue for things when I'm trying to make my own progress.
Such is Cupid life (¡~¡)

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

A Tank and Healer could have been added but they seem to be in a rut with what to do with both roles now. Splitting the roles into much more defined main/off causes a problem in pug content where the queues cannot always ensure you will get a main and not an off, or two mains or two offs. Could also be they just dont have anything on the board that's mechanically apart from what we already have. Maybe the balance topic is just covering up the fact they are drawing blanks on what to do next, or maybe they actually have a plan but entails needing to work on several factors for future releases.

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I'm really sure what your trying to say there. If they are at such a loose end, that makes things even worse. Tanks and healers are already divided into mains and offs. WHM literally cant fit the role of a mitigation healers and PLDs are never chosen as Off tanks. In both positions, these jobs are considered inferior for that role. This isn't about dividing them up. There were already divided up. It only became notable when the 3rd Jobs were introduced and suddenly they had a job in each role which had to compete with to other Jobs which filled very different positions in a party. This is why they gave AST the whole stance thing.

To change this setup they would either have to homogenise the Jobs so no job is better at anything than any other of the jobs in the role or completely change how the meta operates. The first is probably bad from a design point of view and the second I think is unrealistic to expect.

One of the reasons I find their attempts to reassure Tanks and healers that they won't be left out so annoying is because I am not convinced they have come to grips with this issue and vague promises feel empty. Regardless, it doesn't make the whole 'dps has more sub roles' both any less lame and short sighted or frankly irrelevant. It won't make disappointed or upset Tank/Healers any less disappointed or upset and it certainly won't make a difference in queue times and people charging for tanking/healing which is what this thread is about.

I'd rather prefer waiting 1 hour dungeon queues than paying any single gill to any tank/healer.
I can wait.

Good ;). Not all cant play 24/7 and for me its good.

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Originally Posted by XSamsaraLotusX

Good ;). Not all cant play 24/7 and for me its good.

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Reading your last few posts I'm starting to believe you are mocking and being condescending to people, as a lot of your posts are sarcastic responses without any real proof reading before you post EVEN with a built in spell checker.

Ok after looking over your character information I definitely know you are trolling and stirring stuff up, I WOULD NEVER hire you to tank for me if I wasn't a tank myself... Shame on you.

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Originally Posted by Kahnom

I'd rather prefer waiting 1 hour dungeon queues than paying any single gill to any tank/healer.
I can wait.

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Why wait? Just get some friends... unless they only play dps?

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Originally Posted by Celef

The community has always been greedy and not helpfull :D

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So instead of trying to not make it even worse its better just to become apart of that too?
I mean: I dont charge for Ex Kills, I dont sell houses (and its punishable by the GMs) and if someone has all the mats for the crafting and I can do it I will do it for free.

I am just really thankful that I have good friends that I will run this thing with and I wont point out fingers to anyone doing it either but I will have my opinion of these people. Oh and I am quite sure that SE really does not care about this. They will see that the dungeons are run normal thanks to those sells and thus believe that their thinking is right.

Your best bet to make gil selling your time is during pre release. Lots of dedicated players trying to push the new roles to 70.