People need to get real about Duty Finder queues.

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Originally Posted by birdy_reene

I laugh at those people. When they offer me advise I just say "I Main tank raids and savage content. I don't need your advise. I don't need you either. All I need is the healer. This dungeon can be cleared without you, may take forever, but your easily replaced. So sit down and kill what I pull or enjoy waiting for my replacement. I don't have to wait, you do" And go back to tanking. If they get snotty I ignore them and giggle if I get kicked. I do large pulls, sometimes I do small. Just depends on my mood on a given day or how enjoyable the group I'm stuck with plays. Personally I blame the community at large for why more people don't tank. Its a thankless job outside of the raiding community. Tanking for this community sucks.

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mhmm coz as a dps I get loads of recognition for doing my job well... Oh wait I'm lucky to get a com.

Dunno what you guys expect. It's like you expect everyone to be grateful for doing your job and worship the ground you walk on.

And fyi you are replaceable and I would replace you in a heartbeat if you gave me such a snide remark. Penty of people with tanks willing to help in the FC.

The DPS queue feels. They were so bad while leveling as double DPS that I swapped to WHM and the person I play with swapped to WAR.

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Originally Posted by verilix

The DPS queue feels. They were so bad while leveling as double DPS that I swapped to WHM and the person I play with swapped to WAR.

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TBH None of us are buying the new dps jobs only is fine excuse I'm guessing they took the passive route and just let this problem get so bad the community will outright switch to tanks and healers out of disgust. Which, if you read the OF will not end good. Expect about 20000 more pagesw of tales from the duty finder

Easy solution to end all this struggle : it's a MMO, be social and make/have Tank friends. Enjoy instant queues. End.
More constructive reply : It has always been the same trouble in all mmo. Players are more attracted to dps type classes. No matter their reason/preference.
Adding more tanks to the game is fine and help in a very short term (we saw in HS, there were plenty of new DK in their early lvl, and not anymore beyond lvl 50), but it will stay the same in the end.
Not everyone has the "tanking spirit". That's all, and that's fine too.
Crying for long queues as dps is useless. SE wont change the whole established system to decrease queues from 30 to 25 mn. You have lots of other things to care about while waiting in this game, queues are note that much of a problem except if you want them to be.

Besides : have a thought for the tanks and healers that will have to deal with a hord of new Samurai and RedMage having no clues how to play these new jobs yet in dungeon ! :D

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

except it didn't at the same time. My chances of actually clearing a dungeon vastly dropped because of the complexity of DRK (and the legions of terrible part time tank players). So yes while the queues were faster, I probably spent more time overall because of the repeated wipes due to people having not yet figured out how to DRK (or tanking for that matter). Hell, it was during that period of time where I saw the first vote abandon at the last boss of Fractal that I have never seen again since lol.

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I can understand this, but I like to try and help explain to players like you, that DRK in its absolute minimum core, plays like PLD.
Flash for mobs more than 3.
your basic -20% dmg taken at the start.
Sprinkle another CD or so after it wears off.
Rotate your threat combo to conserve your resources. (Similar with WAR at the most basic level)

After you have this, you can throw abilities on top of this, even if its 1 at a time, until you have it down.

Abilities that take up some MP
Abilities for burst, that take up a lot of MP
and abilities to help get some MP back.

But you need to experiment with these once you're comfortable with your basics.
(I think getting used to rotating your MP restore combo more than your threat combo, is probably a step in the middle, as you'll now find yourself maxing MP constantly, and needing something to do, to get rid of your MP)

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

The mentality comes from the fact that there's no good reason not to optimize everything in this game. You should do everything you do to the best of your ability. And since everyone does damage...

Follow me for a sec, let's look at Royal Authority. You sacrifice the enmity from RoH for a lot more damage. Why would a tank ever want this? Because enmity doesn't help past the necessary amount. If I have a 50,000 enmity lead because all I use is RoH, I could stop attacking for a LONG while and not lose hate. Using RoH at this point is wasteful. It's suboptimal. RA is a better use of cooldowns, because it helps the group more.

It's the same with healing and DPS. Wasting time and MP from overhealing is suboptimal. Not using a GCD is suboptimal. So, it's clear what you should do.

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The majority of tanks who hate DPS mentality understand this already. What they fail to communicaite, is that they would rather have abilities (in its place) that help with mitigation. (Similar to storms path on WAR) Something you dont want to always use, or might not be able to to, until you have a threat lead.
(Another example would be an attack that does the same dmg as RoH, but heals you for 1% of your max HP for example. And another issue, would be something liek tank stances reducing dmg a LOT more than a tiny 25%. Otherwise tanking out of tank stance becomes the normal, rather than the occasional. (Such as being invincible, so no reason not to drop tank stance for its duration))

The idea is, they like defensive strategies (I do as well, Im the kind of WAR people hate having in their group, as im the WAR who puts up path after eye, except if i expect raid wide dmg 1st, then path before eye.) so why not give abilities with supportive/defensive effects, rather than DPS ones. (Obviously WAR already has all those DPS options, its a bit too late now not to give the rest some, along with the games current build.)

At best, its too late to do much about it, and we can just deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I think his solution makes it boring. I don't want to be STUCK to healing along with my healer partner stuck to healing cuz the damage coming out is ridiculous. I mean your basically asking MIDAS savage level mechanical pushing to force dps failure so you have more cure time. Some form of constant high damage intake. And tanks having to swap for the mere reason they are going to be out of cooldowns for 20+ seconds.

Do you realize to push damage so hard your constantly healing creates a high punishing situation right? And anything less than that, healer has time to DPS.

Not so sure that's the best option

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I disagree.
The system SHOULD have been designed with MUCH stronger burst healing. (essentially if mobs do more dmg, than our current cure1s are the equivalent of being weaker. (and heck, they dont really heal much to begin with, some of the weakest heals ive seen in an MMO)
But these cure1 equivalents should be FILLER. such as a SMN using ruin1 for filler.
all of the burst heals need to be WAY stronger, and there needs to be more than just MP management for handling burst healing.

So I would classify it as
Weak filler cure
Strongest burst heal requires a mechanic, such as stacks
Burst heal that straight up hurts MP or another mechanic.

I technically would add a bit more filler stuff, oGCD, like eye for an eye.
(Something im sad to see isnt more common with the healers.)

All of the healers right now have this to some extent, but just isnt balanced well enough.

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Originally Posted by Underdog2204

mhmm coz as a dps I get loads of recognition for doing my job well... Oh wait I'm lucky to get a com.

Dunno what you guys expect. It's like you expect everyone to be grateful for doing your job and worship the ground you walk on.

And fyi you are replaceable and I would replace you in a heartbeat if you gave me such a snide remark. Penty of people with tanks willing to help in the FC.

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I don't know what you're talking about. Myself (and many others) have crystal balls to gauge how much damage people are doing. DPS can definitely get my comm for doing well. The issue is that many DPS I meet in DF think they're great but are actually doing less damage than my PLD.

Right now the average expert roulette queue is roughly 20 minutes at the most. I dont think the current queues are that bad. Leveling and 50 roulette are about 15 minutes which is reasonable too. The current queue times are decent to where unless you are super impatient, its going to feel long to you.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

I don't know what you're talking about. Myself (and many others) have crystal balls to gauge how much damage people are doing. DPS can definitely get my comm for doing well. The issue is that many DPS I meet in DF think they're great but are actually doing less damage than my PLD.

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And tanks can't get coms? Well news to me...

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Originally Posted by Berethos

I'm talking about it more from a conceptual level, because the person I was quoting was treating the death of a DPS as the only failure state they could face and how that isn't a fight ending issue.

Clearly there aren't many DPS checks of that nature in dungeons at this point, and the ones that do exist tend to be pretty forgiving, but the fact remains that they do exist and they are obviously meant to be the main token of DPS failure.

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Thank you, this seems to pass over many people's heads. When it really matters, a dps death is killing everyone and there is a very slim chance of recovery. You can recover from low health and low HP, but it's hard to recover from low DPS when it counts because it needs to be a consistant level over time.

I get confused when people take the performance of DPS in dungeons and apply it to every dps ever. Dungeons are easy so that even some of the worst of the worst can still make it to the end. Some people seem to equate a low skill floor to a low skill ceiling for dps. Just like I said in my last post, I believe dps has the highest ceiling of the three roles, but also the lowest floor.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Right now the average expert roulette queue is roughly 20 minutes at the most. I dont think the current queues are that bad. Leveling and 50 roulette are about 15 minutes which is reasonable too. The current queue times are decent to where unless you are super impatient, its going to feel long to you.

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it's not really the expert roulette that's a problem for dps queues, it's mainly leveling that takes so long. i've had multiple times where i was #50 or so in there as a dps. But like Mejingjard said, just make a friend with a tank and enjoy insta-queues all day. it's what i've done the past few months when my friend took up tanking and it's fantastic

I love to tank or heal. I like the sense of danger. If I die we all do. I like to feel important in my role. Gladiator was my first class I levelled. There were times when I was struggling to master certain dungeons/manage aggro and a bad run could be emotionally devastating, especially when people got nasty, (only a few times). There's a hump to get over and people don't want to feel bad about themselves for the sake of a video game.