Monk Macros with Proper Rotation!

Yeah this is just idiotic at this point. We already have the group of people that say why bring a monk to anything since they dont bring the dps utility of jobs X Y and Z but he's trying to say it's competitive to drop nearly 270 dps. Really?

If say me and you (mad) went in to gubal hard with the exact same gear, I with 99.9 % certainty would do double your dps... is this how you played monk at 60 with your other account?

Also I just watched your comparison video.. your difference was 2% over two mins.. well if the fight is 15 mins you'll lose 2% every two mins... so your dps loss for your current set up would be 15% loss.. not 2%

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Originally Posted by Littlevegeta

Also I just watched your comparison video.. your difference was 2% over two mins.. well if the fight is 15 mins you'll lose 2% every two mins... so your dps loss for your current set up would be 15% loss.. not 2%

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I know you would love for the math to work out that way but it does not work that way Vegeta! You do not stack 2% every 2 minutes on the laws of averages....but as I stated you and others will make false math calculations no matter what I say or prove I provide. If you do not want to use Macros, then dont....leave it at that! Using false math calculations will not change me from providing my information to those that would like to use for midcore to casual content. Thats all I way say in regards to this subject!

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

I know you would love for the math to work out that way but it does not work that way Vegeta! You do not stack 2% every 2 minutes on the laws of averages....but as I stated you and others will make false math calculations no matter what I say or prove I provide. If you do not want to use Macros, then dont....leave it at that! Using false math calculations will not change me from providing my information to those that would like to use for midcore to casual content. Thats all I way say in regards to this subject!

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This got me wanting to try and do a side by side test with you ingame. Not cause I wanna prove you wrong. But to test myself on my own rotation. Are you on Balmung or have an alt there? Let me know. I wanna see how mine stacks up.

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Originally Posted by HelSpites

Nah. That first video took long enough to make. Your macros are a dps loss in any content, not just end game. I don't know if you know this dude, but 13% is huge no matter what you're doing. Everyone, literally everyone has been telling you this. They've shown you the math, which you totally ignored and now even a video using the exact macros you showed off (You know, the ones you called "The ideal monk rotation") apparently isn't enough. You want to keep moving the goalposts and saying "Nah though, you just didn't do it right", that's your deal.

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You're on balmung. Mind if you test my rotation ingame? my balmung character is Remy Buster. LEt me know. As I always want to improve and you seem to have some good know how on you.

Macro's are a dps loss. They aren't meant for fitting multiple actions in for combat. Otherwise we wouldn't have the dev team talking about the lack of buttons we're having.

The devs didn't make macro's to be used for putting multiple skills on one button. The most use they have is for <tt> on one skill, or for text related help, like saying who is being raised or if you used a certain cooldown (Beserk.)

Madruck people are not saying to stop using macros we are simply saying they are not a crutch to be relied on for the combat classes as one day a player in order to improve will need to remove it. Macros have their place for targeting, announcing things and crafting but as I've and many others have said before there is loss in using them, they are not reliable and frequently miss out abilities that should trigger, I should know I used to use one for SMN that would do Rouse and Spur but have since removed it due to it's inconsistent nature. Almost all of us at one point or another has attempted what you have and after much pain have found them to either be a flat loss or too inconsistent to rely upon. Don't take this is a personal attack we are trying to steer you and others away from a path well trodden that we know to lead to a cliff edge.

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Originally Posted by yohbuster

You're on balmung. Mind if you test my rotation ingame? my balmung character is Remy Buster. LEt me know. As I always want to improve and you seem to have some good know how on you.

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Sure, I'm don't mind helping someone who actually wants to improve. Just toss me a tell whenever you're in game.

Monk is as easy as goon and blackmage. Especially without macros. You can even be a scrub and get it half right. With half dps too.

Seen a healer tell me they may not give me heals cause it's not in their macro I was like.... (am BLM, usually pulls aggro once or twice from pug tanks)

Lol wut

Even if you're on PlayStation please don't use macros for dps ;_; (or heals or tanking...)

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

Using false math calculations will not change me from providing my information to those that would like to use for midcore to casual content.

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Yet you ignore the raw numbers showing it is a DPS loss PERIOD. Macros shouldn't be used in any content as a midcore player may not be the best, but they understand their class. Again, any avoidable handicap IS NO COMPETITIVE. Give it a break, you discovered nothing new and if this was remotely viable people would have posted macros by now.

I read until about page 7, and I'm a little sleep-deprived, so hopefully my post is coherent, and I was understanding this thread...

I disagree with this. The use of macros and the practice of macroing your rotation, like others have said, is a DPS loss. Regardless if it's 5% or 50%, it's still a loss. And really, that 5% could make or break a DPS check. Macros do not allow for ability queuing. They do not allow for fractional wait times. Take a normal GCD: 2.5 seconds. You can't macro:

/ac "Bootshine"
/wait 2.5
/ac "Twin Snakes"
/wait 2.5
etc...

You have to do 3 seconds instead. With two moves, that's already a 1 second delay. May seem minuscule now, but those seconds quickly add up the more a fight progresses. Again, a DPS loss is a DPS loss. And no DPS loss can ever be considered good, no matter how small.

You said you didn't design these macros for use in endgame/savage content, yet you are challenging any and all who disagree with your macros, to use them in endgame/savage content, and then make a judgment? That seems a little contradictory. Addition here: When people talk about "competitive" content in this game, they are generally talking about current EX primals/Savage raids. Not FATEs, not story/leveling dungeons, not guildhests, trials, etc. Not even Expert roulette. Current EX Primals and Savage content. Because, really, those are the numbers that make their way onto FFLogs. MAYBE the current 24-man raid, but competitive players upload competitve numbers to their FFLogs page. Not their DPS numbers for Sastasha.

You bring up human error. You say everyone makes mistakes. That is true. Compound the naturalness that is human error with macros that already have the potential to break and fragment a rotation. That could lead to even more of a DPS loss.

I agree with the other posters that macros should be reserved for ground AoEs, alert macros (i.e., "Berserk used! Pacification in 20 secs!"), and, if you're a healer, maybe even a Swiftcast+Raise macro. I use Swiftcast+Raise macros on my heals, and they sometimes break, and do not go off properly. Pretty annoying actually. I really can't imagine that happening during my entire rotation if it's macro'd.

I am not a good or decent monk by any means. I'm actually pretty bad at monk, I think, though I'm told otherwise. But I think I know enough to say that this is generally just bad practice. And while, yes, it's your sub/your $15/you'll play how you want, that's a pretty poor attitude to have given the way you are responding to some of these posters. The burden of proof lies with you. It's up to you to prove your macros work and are competitive. Not tell us to make a video and prove you wrong.

For the record, I did not watch your video, but, based on the comments I read, I don't really feel like I have to, to know that I will still disagree with it. And just because a system is implemented in a game doesn't mean that it has to be used as much as you seem to think that it does. The sample/default macros when you make a new character aren't even for skills--they're for greetings and emotes! You can macro your rotation, just like DRKs can cross-class Flash--but it doesn't mean that you should.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Take a normal GCD: 2.5 seconds. You can't macro:

/ac "Bootshine"
/wait 2.5
/ac "Twin Snakes"
/wait 2.5
etc...

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There is a difference between

Code:

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/macroicon Demolish
/ac Internal Release <wait.3>
/ac Blood for Blood <wait.3>
/ac Steel Peak <wait.3>
/ac True Strike <wait.3>
/ac Demolish <wait.3>
/ac Bootshine

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and

Code:

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/macroicon Demolish
/ac Internal Release
/ac Blood for Blood
/ac Steel Peak
/ac True Strike
/ac Demolish
/ac Bootshine

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.

The first macro is used as some kind of "press Button X one time and wait until its finished". In this case, you definitely have a HUGE DPS loss, because you have to wait 3 seconds instead fo 2,5 (or less). Time is Damage (kinda).

The second macro is use as some kind of "mash Button X repeadly to activate all skills when your GCD is finished". This works for Monk ONLY because "True Strike" and "Demolish" can only be activated, when you re in the right stance. This will work as to merge your 2 CDs, 1 OFFGCD and 1 combo into 1 Button. Bootshine will not be executed, when "Demolish" or "True Strike" is activate because of their GCD. Or to be clear:

Skills executed in order:

1. Internal Release
(skip because of GCD) Blood for Blood
2. Steel Peak
(inaccessable, wrong stance) True Strike
(inaccessable, wrong stance) Demolish
(skip because of GCD) 4. Bootshine

(on cooldown) Internal Release
(on cooldown) Steel Peak
3. Blood for Blood
(inaccessable, wrong stance) True Strike
(inaccessable, wrong stance) Demolish
(skip because of GCD) 4. Bootshine

(on cooldown) Internal Release
(on cooldown) Steel Peak
(on cooldown) Blood for Blood
(inaccessable, wrong stance) True Strike
(inaccessable, wrong stance) Demolish
4. Bootshine

(on cooldown) Internal Release
(on cooldown) Steel Peak
(on cooldown) Blood for Blood
5. True Strike
(inaccessable, wrong stance) Demolish
(skip because of GCD) Bootshine

(on cooldown) Internal Release
(on cooldown) Steel Peak
(on cooldown) Blood for Blood
(inaccessable, wrong stance) True Strike
6. Demolish
(skip because of GCD) Bootshine

This is quite different to OPs macro, but shares the same mechanic. Like previously said, even when it does works somehow, its still risky and not recommended to use it.

was try out this macro stuff yesterday and i notice not just a dps lose the most problem with this stuff is how to see which skill will be excuse with atm when you press the same button all time.
monk rotation is based on shine buttons which tells you "PUSH ME NOW look i am shining so nice!!!" so the problem is i have no clue which skill excuse atm and do i need change postion already? no idea because it dosent show you in macro (only one icon but many skills) this makes just even harder to do a good monk rotation like without macros. :rolleyes:

regards hobbit :o

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

Using false math calculations will not change me from providing my information to those that would like to use for midcore to casual content. Thats all I way say in regards to this subject!

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All I have to say is you are not providing anything useful to casual or midcore players with this. Basic math isn't even required to disprove the basic logic that your macros are detrimental in combat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

If you do not want to use Macros, then dont....leave it at that!

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It instills poor habits for players and provides zero education with their job or how to change on the fly or alter your rotations due to mechanics.

If you truly want to help anyone playing Monk, take the time to make a visual guide with step by step of rotations with an explanation of actions. Expand on it, showing examples of mechanics and changing on the fly with footage of the actual mechanic. Not just a striking dummy.

Pls tell me how this is wrong.. the longer the fight the bigger the difference will be.. the dps doesn't magically even out after 2 mins or it would be even the whole time.. do you even math?

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Originally Posted by Littlevegeta

Pls tell me how this is wrong.. the longer the fight the bigger the difference will be.. the dps doesn't magically even out after 2 mins or it would be even the whole time.. do you even math?

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If Player A is doing 1000 DPS, and Player B is doing 800 DPS, Player B is doing 80% of Player A's DPS, right?

So at 2 minutes, aka 120 seconds, Player A's total damage should be 120000 damage. Player B will be at 96000 damage.
96000/120000 = 96/120 = 80%
So at 2 hours 15 minutes, aka 135 minutes or 8100 seconds, Player A's total damage should be 8,100,000 damage, and Player B should be at 6,480,000 total damage.
6480000/8100000 = 648/810 = 80%

The total damage numbers will increase over time. But as long as the two DPS numbers remain constant, the percentage difference between the total damage numbers will remain constant. Where you will see variances is due to cooldown use. Neither Player A nor Player B will use their cooldown exactly the same way, especially when comparing various methods for doing things! And so their constant 1000 DPS and 800 DPS, or whatever the actual DPS comes out to be for any given period, will not be the same for all such given periods.

ok so a basic summary, macros are bad. If you use macros you aren't using the jobs full potential, don't macro( some macros are ok like saying I'm raising this guy) just press the buttons, its more fun that way.

But with macros the gap between the number gcds used versus a non macros rotation increases over time.. there for increasing the dps gap

Those macros are so wrong, lol xD i see clippin/waitin everywhere, bad use of ogcs, opener is shit :D i dont play monk and still i would kick your macro ass anytime in dps

Christ on a bike, is this still going?

Thread should have ended with the below post (thank you so much for taking the time, Helspites):

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HelSpites

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFCRXdFR7iw

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Case and point - macros create poor players that do less DPS. In other news, sky is blue, grass is green, and OP is terrible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

If Player A is doing 1000 DPS, and Player B is doing 800 DPS, Player B is doing 80% of Player A's DPS, right?

So at 2 minutes, aka 120 seconds, Player A's total damage should be 120000 damage. Player B will be at 96000 damage.
96000/120000 = 96/120 = 80%
So at 2 hours 15 minutes, aka 135 minutes or 8100 seconds, Player A's total damage should be 8,100,000 damage, and Player B should be at 6,480,000 total damage.
6480000/8100000 = 648/810 = 80%

The total damage numbers will increase over time. But as long as the two DPS numbers remain constant, the percentage difference between the total damage numbers will remain constant. Where you will see variances is due to cooldown use. Neither Player A nor Player B will use their cooldown exactly the same way, especially when comparing various methods for doing things! And so their constant 1000 DPS and 800 DPS, or whatever the actual DPS comes out to be for any given period, will not be the same for all such given periods.

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This is true, assuming other factors aren't involved. Phase shifts and other mechanics that ruin a combo will break the macros, and result in a DPS plummet during such mechanics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Littlevegeta

But with macros the gap between the number gcds used versus a non macros rotation increases over time.. there for increasing the dps gap

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While that may seem true, the percentage values actually stay the same (barring aforementioned mechanical interference). As Roth pointed out, raw values will increase, but percentages will remain constant, assuming no interference. The instant mechanics cause rotation pauses, this difference grows massively (as already mentioned by others).

Macros are good for:
Announcing key skills like: Raise, Mantra, Berserk, Provoke, Blunt Arrow, HG/HG/LD, etc.
Crafting and Gathering
Making loot lists (back before lootmaster or even now to show newcomers who has reserved what)
Making miscellaneous chat/emote/action combos (which I expect to see in that APR performance on the 30th to help with lengthy lines in the script)

Macros are NOT good for:
Combat rotations

Macros are in the game for a lot of reasons, but just like existing gear, this rule applies: Its existence doesn't guarantee its usefulness. Remember that.

I just love how you're a level 54 monk trying to tell people that have way more experience than you at the game that they are somehow wrong, and you are right. Telling new players it's okay to use macros for rotations is basically saying to them "hey guys it's okay to be bad and never want to improve yourself!" as someone that is trying to help players in the game shouldn't you be trying to help them improve in the game, and not just limit themselves to macros? Even if they are casual players, they should learn to play the game properly, and not rely on macros that basically clip their ankles. You also don't seem to understand the meaning of midcore.

What i find funny is he says it's competitive at all levels but when someone says try it in a hard fight his defense is always "but fates and low lvl dungeons!"

Ok I know people gave up on this post last month but here's my view.

So I'm a Lvl57 MNK, I have used macros in the past and I'm afraid I agree with everyone here who are saying "They don't work".
They're saying this because for DPS purposes they don't, infact even I found they decreased my DPS quite substantially. Having fought with macros and without and I have found kicking off your rotation without them in a macro my damage a lot higher than them being used in macros, when I used macros my DPS was so low, barely causing damage they really are not advised unless they're the ones stating who your healing or a pull count down.
My rotation with the help of an amazing mentor deals so much dmg.
I don't have video proof, but why should we show video proof of our own personal experiences? I get your trying to help people, but others are trying to help you, from personal experiences of playing this game and going through what your doing right now.
Easier isn't always the best way.

I can't believe someone just prefaced a post with "it's my $15, I'll play the way I want to" without it being a joke.

People on this forum are so incredibly entitled and unwilling to be a decent team player. It's incredible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tigerlilley

People on this forum are so incredibly entitled and unwilling to be a decent team player. It's incredible.

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It's not just on the forums, the players in game are more tolerant than to old ARR times. Not sure if they are scared to kick people nowadays or if by now it's declared as the "norm". Having stated my opinion in some other threads about the same non sense, last night I thought well let's put it to the test.

Knowing damn well that using macro's on a dps class is not just wrong, but absolute intolerable. I joined on my alt a level 60 dungeon, that is a bit out of date but still a good indicator that you can't slack with your rotations or this run will take extremely long, with the healer having to spam heal the tank since we can't make it through the regular trash already lol.

I kid you not, I had literally 345 dps in ilvl240 using macros, and instead of being kicked and or asked if I am trolling, or offered advice since my character still has the little green leaf, it was tolerated. At the end of the run I asked " did I do great?" and people actually answered that I did a good job for a newer player.

I was astonished because I still don't understand why we are tolerating such behavior. I can understand being a bit more patient with newer players, or players coming back, but why we tolerating that in this circumstance I could have gone afk and still get a pat on my back at the end. Probably for the same reason we have topics like that, that suggest dps using macro's because they are paying $15 a month.

Toxic community being toxic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

I kid you not, I had literally 345 dps in ilvl240 using macros, and instead of being kicked and or asked if I am trolling, or offered advice since my character still has the little green leaf, it was tolerated. At the end of the run I asked " did I do great?
.

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Lol if it makes you feel better I absolutely would have called you out on 345 at ilvl240. Absolutely. Green leaf or not!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bloody

Macros are good for:
Announcing key skills like: Raise, Mantra, Berserk, Provoke, Blunt Arrow, HG/HG/LD, etc.

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Those seem like the skills you want to have fail the least possible time when used. Why subject them to a macro?
Unless you mean a macro just for announcing it while you still press your ability normally.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

I kid you not, I had literally 345 dps in ilvl240 using macros, and instead of being kicked and or asked if I am trolling, or offered advice since my character still has the little green leaf, it was tolerated. At the end of the run I asked " did I do great?" and people actually answered that I did a good job for a newer player.

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I'm sorry say what now??
Ok before my current rotation, I had a pretty bad rotation, I was a returner trying to get back into the swing and in a dungeon I needed for my quest I was kicked. Why? because my dps was low and I was slow, they didn't offer help or tolerate it. I have my current rotation thanks to a Mentor from the Novice group who I spoke to about it, I still may not be the best but I'm a doing a ton better.
"Tolerating" people who have low DPS and are slow doesn't help them learn to get better, it just makes it harder for them when they do the duties on their own and they wonder why they keep dieing.
Even basic macros for a dps are not advised by anyone.