Scaling of abilities to a player's level is not a step in the right direction.

Off-topic: What the Hell is this /10chars meme?

On-topic: I don't really mind the scaling so much. It'll keep my abilities list all nice and tidy. To each their own, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by kensredemption

Off-topic: What the Hell is this /10chars meme?

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Your post needs to have 10 characters minimum.

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Originally Posted by MugenMugetsu

So I've heard/read that SE is planning to eliminate tiered abilities and instead have one spell/ability that becomes more powerful as a character becomes higher level. This simply will not work.

This is going to put players in a position where hate control is going to become a huge issue. As a level 50 Conjurer this tells me that I will have 1 Cure spell, for example, that becomes more powerful as I level. This is all well and good until you consider the fact that if I want to drop a Cure I or Cure II on the tank or DD that needs said Cure, and hate has not been well established, I'm going to have only one, what I assume to be tier III powered Cure, available to me to use to cure the tank/dd.

If hate has not been well established this is going to cause me to become the mob's primary target as the enmity generated from the tier III powered Cure spell I used is going to cause the mob to see me as a threat.

This works the same way with attack magic. If I want to DD as Con, rather than dropping tier III spells before hate has been well established I will no longer have the option of being able to use a tier 1 or tier 2 level attack magic spell. This again will generate enmity that could very well cause me to pull the mob off of the tank and put me at risk of being an mp sponge.

I, for one, am none too please with SE's or Yoshi P's decision to go in this direction as I enjoy playing strategically and being able to use the different tiered spells I have available to me not only just to make sure I don't generate too much enmity and pull hate off the tank, but also because the use of lowered tiered spells in instances where they would be suitable conserves mp.

I would much prefer to have the option of using a lowered tiered spell to save mp and make sure that I am not generating too much enmity than have only one spell/ability that has been scaled to my level as far as it's potency is concerned.

It is probably already too late for my concerns to make a difference but I did want to start this thread to see if there are any other players out there who share the same concern that I have with tiered spells being eliminated.

I could go on and on in regards to the problems with this new system that is to be implemented, but I think I have made my point. In closing, SE please think before you take action and change a perfectly good system into what you "think" will be more suitable. These types of changes should absolutely have to be rigorously tested in various situations including xp parties, instanced dungeons, and fights such as the Ifrit battle before they are ever considered for actual placement and use in game. I'm going to be none to pleased when I'm being eaten by mobs because I dropped a "Cure" on a tank/DD and it causes me to draw hate because my spell was scaled to my level and the potency caused the mob to see me as a threat. Also, and I know I have already mentioned this, this is going to cause a lot of trouble for us mages when it comes to conserving mp.

Share your feedback. Maybe my opinion is not necessarily correct and everything will work out beautifully, but I highly doubt it will, unless we are given the option to choose the potency of the 1 spell available for us to use which has been scaled to be as potent as it should be at a player's level.

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You really should wait for full details before making posts like this. Then spread your concerns once concrete information is out there.

Also this works with all other MMOs I don't see why it is a problem in this game, it will like have be several different cures. Just using WoW for example because it is well known, you have flash heals, quick but a tad weak heal that uses fair MP, normal heal, greater heal, big MP cost big heals bit enmity gain. Then you have the AoE spells, I don't know if this is the route they are going but that is what I gained from this. They scale with your level and works fine.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

I would rather have an empty slot then a skill I probly won't ever use.

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http://i.imgur.com/MbXg7.jpg

What's with all the rage over losing Tier II and III, etc.?

We haven't even seen how Black Mage is going to work. It could be that "Fire" for Conjuerer (or Thaumaturge if it changes in 1.20) scales with it's level, but Black Mage can get "Fire II" which scales as well.

Level 30 THM = Level 30 BLM

THM gets Fire that ranges from 100 damage at level 30 to 800 damage at level 50.
BLM gets Fire II that ranges from 200 damage at level 30 to 1600 damage at level 50.
(All numbers are hypothetical, as is the possibility of THM getting elemental nukes in 1.20)

So why complain about a system that you haven't had a chance to test and that you haven't seen how other jobs are going to affect it?

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Originally Posted by viion

I dont need to know specifically.

I personally dont give a shit about the changes in spells themself, I do give a shit about tiers, which we've been given thorough information on. And that is what the OP is also talking about, p2 is about the new skill lists, we've been told enough about how the new system will work to be able to provide information

Not to mention, if they didnt want feedback, why post it at all!?

Swear some of you should donate your brains now as its that useless.

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Because the feedback people are giving amount to: "Waaah, it be bad and stoopeed."

And no, there's no thorough information on anything. It's a very broad outline that just lays out the structure of what's to come.

My brain is just fine, thank you. Learn how to conjugate verbs and add proper inflection to your words, it'll go better with a statement about brains.

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Originally Posted by Answa

Because the feedback people are giving amount to: "Waaah, it be bad and stoopeed."

And no, there's no thorough information on anything. It's a very broad outline that just lays out the structure of what's to come.

My brain is just fine, thank you. Learn how to conjugate verbs and add proper inflection to your words, it'll go better with a statement about brains.

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I don't think the concerns are needless. Since this is a work in progress, and there are not many details given, I will go ahead and wait until the actual outline comes out to determine whether I like it or not. On the other hand, valid concerns are raised with recast timers, potency, and extensive cuts to the current spell list. The dev team requested a sound off, and people are voicing their fears. When the outline comes out and if there is disagreement i'm sure people will voice their differences. One of these things is not like the other.

Well, IMO the fact we are having only the highest tier spells might actually be in the correct direction.

You see...it was the original mechanic here...monsters dalways dealt way more damage than FFXI and in a much higher frequency than there...so it does is correct we not being forced to rely on low ier spells that, right now, heal like 10% of tanks/melees HP.

I liked the idea...as soon as everything (damage dealt/damage taken/heals) is scaled correctly i see no real problem with this scaling.

About spell the only thing i think is that the game will become "boring" over time. With just action scalling the way you play Lv10 will be nearly the same you play lv50...once you learned the action and understood how it works, it will become a static aspect of that class...there will be no strategy or builds involved anymore...we are again moving straight to FFXI, where the builds are related to gear mainly.

But, IMO, the main concern regarding this are the traits still...because right now the traits have major impact on player survivability so i'm really worried about them...you see, a cross class heal with no trait loses around 20% of its average healing if compared to a heal with the traits properly working (affinity trait + prime conditioning on target)...or avoiding attacks with or without fleet to foot...it's a notieable difference.

I can understand the worries because I have also experiences that control over the potency of your spell can be really important (especially as an mp-eater.....).
Of course I think it is best to wait first and complain after so I'll generate my opinion when the spells are changed.

But as a suggestion: Does anyone know the game Dream of Mirror Online (sort of a FFXI rip off but a good one - loved it)?
There they had different tiers in "one" spell, meaning that you could level up your skills at the appropriate character level but could downgrade them anytime as well by using buttons to regulate the level.

Maybe (no I haven't thought about how to make it UI-friendly yet) this is an option here, too? Then there would be less spells (less chaos in the spell list) but the own control at which level you want to have the spells.

Thread TLDR

OP I did read, and here is an idea. How about we wait for that second part of the class reforms before we start claiming they are doing the wrong thing?

How about i just give you an F before you take your quiz, just because..

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Your post needs to have 10 characters minimum.

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Oh, I thought that was like short-hand for charisma or something. Which would've been weird since it's a typo...in any case, I don't know why people would do it. It's not hard to conjure up a sentence...is it?

It looks dumb. There's a better way of doing it rather than saying "10/CHARS HUUUUUUUR"

I don't give enough of a damn to force out a sentence honestly. There's nothing more to say and you still need those 10 characters to post. /10characters gets the point across.

wut .

Will you teach me about which way the toilet paper should face too? Who gives a shit.

http://whitewhine.com/

people keep talking about the mage combos reducing enmity. these Single player combos refer to hitting the target from different sides which may not be possible in alot of boss fights. When fighting something like ifrit were there is limited safe ground to stand on having your mages running around the map will be a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Will you teach me about which way the toilet paper should face too? Who gives a shit.

http://whitewhine.com/

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I give a poop Betel

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

I give a poop Betel

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I see.

/10characters

This thread is so lame how did it last 10 pages. STOP FEAR MONGERING! I know this comes off trolly, but do you guys read what you write?! This thread is so anti-intellectual its scary.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I see.

/10characters

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I <3 u~ .

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

people keep talking about the mage combos reducing enmity. these Single player combos refer to hitting the target from different sides which may not be possible in alot of boss fights. When fighting something like ifrit were there is limited safe ground to stand on having your mages running around the map will be a bad idea.

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There's other conditions besides that. The enmity bonus WS example only needed the first skill to hit, and direction didn't matter at all except for doing more damage from the front with the first WS. In fact you don't need to position at all for combos, but the individual WS examples had great bonuses for doing so.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

The thing is, just because tiers are removed that does not indicate that healing spells will be condensed into one.

If the characteristics of each new healing spell are different enough, treating them like different tiers of the same spell wouldn't make much sense in my opinion. What we will most likely get is three spells, low MP cost medium MP cost and high MP cost with varying characteristics. Every one of them will retain their usefulness at any given level considering they will grow in potency automatically.

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In that case wouldn't the same concept apply to most if not all DoM spells? If so that would defeat the purpose of the revamp. Either way I'm still a sad panda :<

Oh and at the other guy who asked why. It's because I like less clutter on my UI and prefer my skill bar to be very neat and simple not packed with everything a-z with no option to remove.

A point ppl isn't taking into consideration is the medicines...it's very possible of them thinking about making a "self-healing" system and this is why only 1 heal is needed.

You see...at 2.0 concept art is showing over 140 potions at action bar...which is meant to be a 999 stack, AKA "use-all-the-time" stuff...very different from FFXI where meds were very situational.

I believe that they might be planning it in a way WHM may only heal in emergencies, all other time just focusing on buffs and status affliction healing.

It was already about time of them to play fair with us and show at once the actions of classes AND jobs...it's much easier to understand stuff when you don't have to guess/assume 90% of the scenario. :/

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Originally Posted by Lienn

A point ppl isn't taking into consideration is the medicines...it's very possible of them thinking about making a "self-healing" system and this is why only 1 heal is needed.

You see...at 2.0 concept art is showing over 140 potions at action bar...which is meant to be a 999 stack, AKA "use-all-the-time" stuff...very different from FFXI where meds were very situational.

I believe that they might be planning it in a way WHM may only heal in emergencies, all other time just focusing on buffs and status affliction healing.

It was already about time of them to play fair with us and show at once the actions of classes AND jobs...it's much easier to understand stuff when you don't have to guess/assume 90% of the scenario. :/

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I can hear the rage already...

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

In that case wouldn't the same concept apply to most if not all DoM spells?

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There will be trimming, yes. I don't see how that translates to defeating the purpose of the revamp though. It had to be done.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

It was already about time of them to play fair with us and show at once the actions of classes AND jobs...it's much easier to understand stuff when you don't have to guess/assume 90% of the scenario. :/

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Yes because jobs are already nearly completed and they want to hold them until February just because.

Jobs will be specializations so it's safe to say that the class actions will give you an idea what they want to do with the Jobs. You can pretty much tell what a job is going to specialize in already, barring Monk and Bard.

id have to say i disagree this is a great thing its worked well with every game ive seen it done in (wow) just so u know im not a fanboy am i the only one asking will there ever be a mail system?

Eventually yeah, but it seems like it won't be till closer to/when 2.0 releases and they implement the new servers.

I love the idea.. instead of having multiple versions of the same spell/ability to take up space on my toolbar, I get new and different abilities.

I/II/III versions of abilities are literally a decades leap backwards.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

I love the idea.. instead of having multiple versions of the same spell/ability to take up space on my toolbar, I get new and different abilities.

I/II/III versions of abilities are literally a decades leap backwards.

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Well this for one (although decades is one heck of an exageration)

One thing that may or may not become relavent, is that they only mention class abilities, and they never say if class abilitiy space is also job ability space.

It possible that Jobs may be capable to add onto the total number of abilities we may have access too.

They might have something with magic combos i wont say anything until i see the system on

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Originally Posted by Hachi-Roku

You have no idea what you are talking about, you have no coherent plan or idea, and you have not correctly comprehended anything the devs have said.

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(Pwn-sard!)

Yeah(i'm sorry!), your probably right. I LOL over everything I had said and probably over the whole thread. As if anyone knows what's going on. XD