livestream ? is it even translated lol ?
Then again.. can you swap em later if you change your gender ?
Just put em on MogStation sigh.. easy
Chinese costumes are out on Mogstation
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09-30-2016, 08:01 AMCienFleur
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09-30-2016, 08:03 AMKaurieMy personal feedback is that I think it is a shady business practice to place items in a MogStation when we pay a subscription. I believe others have said things like, I am OK with it being in the MogStation but the price is too high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarcoft
Regardless, nearly every other post (whether for, against or neutral) in this thread has been more constructive than this or your last post complaining about people complaining. -
09-30-2016, 08:05 AMAmetrineNope, you can't. My if I buy male gear for my female avatar, the game does zero to stop me.Quote:
Originally Posted by CienFleur
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09-30-2016, 08:06 AMYurimiyes this was my post detailing it on another thread a while agoQuote:
Originally Posted by Alleo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yurimi
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09-30-2016, 08:06 AMomicronxThis ^, however we all know someone who is willing to such a ludicrous price.Quote:
Originally Posted by OMG
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09-30-2016, 08:47 AMJandorYep, the day it came out I saw 3 friends running about in the Chinese dress.Quote:
Originally Posted by omicronx
I've given up saying anything to people. Best I can do is just not support it personally. -
09-30-2016, 10:00 AMOMG
Now all the future mogstation outfits will go for $18+! Continue buying their overpriced goods and they'll keep raising 'em.
If people would hold off from buying some of these items, and make it known that what they're charging is unacceptable, then maybe SE will lower them. -
09-30-2016, 11:34 AMZarcoftSo let me get this straight, you feel entitled to free items since you pay 15 dollars a month? This is not a need as I stated original, it's a want, and 90% of the people on this forum are whining about something, that in all honestly they didn't have to add and bring over as an incentive that was meant for players in a different country. So you have two options, 1) pay for it and enjoy your new purchase, 2) don't pay for it, and add CONSTRUCTIVE feedback, and simply act for a cost reduction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
But has anyone honestly did that? No, they are crying about something that is totally an option. So before you try to flame me, how about some actual construction feedback about how they could of done it better, in a well thought out and flame free post. But I highly doubt you'll do that.
As for the pay to win people are saying, please don't even get me started.
P.S. 15 dollars month sub doesn't mean they owe you anything. -
09-30-2016, 01:34 PMKaurieThe first sentence contradicts itself. "You feel entitled to free items since you pay" - Do you not see that? Also, I would not use the word entitled. It has nothing to do with a sense of entitlement or that I deserve something. It has to do with business practices. They are charging a subscription fee which precedence has set includes glamours - adding a glamour to the store is a bit ridiculous. This is amplified by the fact that it is free in other regions. Then we need to consider the marketplace, where FFXIV is the most expensive MMO by subscription among hundreds (thousands?) of MMO's. Other MMO's use the model of Free to Play and offer these cosmetic items at a cost. Square is now double dipping into the 2nd business model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarcoft
Now, if it weren't for friends playing the game, I would quit. I'm already disappointed in content, and this is just icing on the cake. However, I am continuing to pay, because my friends are still playing and I like them. Instead of showing Square that I disapprove of their business practices with my wallet, I am expressing my discontent via a forum. For what reason this bothers you, or gives you a sense that I am entitled, is beyond me. Consumer feedback is important for a company, and in fact is far more useful than if I had just unsubbed.
I also am not sure why you are bringing needs in to this, but it suggests you have a limited understanding of economics and capitalism. Plenty of people purchase items based on wants, and not needs. Profits are driven by providing this supply to that demand. When the supply does not match the demand, it is common for consumers to provide feedback as such.
In terms of your two options, I am doing precisely what you listed in number 2). It seems like you feel constructive is only constructive if you agree with it.
Before I try to flame you? I did not flame you. My first post mirrored yours exactly, so if it was a flame, then yours was a flame to many people in this thread. My 2nd post was a fairly toneless response to what you said. Conversely, so far your posts have had a very negative and condescending tone.
Your PS is more of a TLDR. You're also failing to grasp the point of the conversation. One can complain and say, "I disagree with your business practice" without feeling entitled or that they are owed something. In fact, if they had not brought over the glamour at all, I'd have been happier. I would have given feedback that it's pretty silly to not let everyone have it, but I would not have been annoyed by the shady business practice of double dipping business models for higher fees than every other competitor in the industry. -
09-30-2016, 02:18 PMNolLacnala
Casual playerbase doesn't want to put effort into acquiring anything. Yoshi might as well just throw all glamour based items on mogstation from here on. Thanks for killing the genre, Blizzard <3
http://i.imgur.com/vHuobeL.jpg -
09-30-2016, 02:21 PMChiramuThis is an insult to players who play MMOs casually and desire casual content in MMOs. Too bad there is not much truly casual content in FFXIV, dungeon grinding for gear takes a lot of time and if you play casually that is a lot of time wasted.Quote:
Originally Posted by NolLacnala
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09-30-2016, 02:42 PMcammi
what would be effort? I want to know cause simply putting it in say deep dungeon like they did with that hair everyone wants you would STILL get people complaining about it cause of RNG and or grind wall. So what if it's "free" it'll be put behind some content alot of players don't want to do. Again they can't win, as people will complain no matter what they do. Even if they lower the price people will complain it's even there in the first place. What can SE really do here? People asked for it and even said they would pay for it.. what would YOU do if tons of people were asking you for a product and were willing to PAY for it? Ofcourse you'd give it away for free right? So why aren't things on the MB for free then? Before people slam SE on this maybe they should try practicing what they want SE to do.
Ofcourse that'll be crazy as people will say " But I took time to grind X content to make X item. Time is money etc etc." Maybe I'm missing something but the way I see it, with that thread being slammed with people willing to pay for them to bring that dress over here, what did you honestly expect SE to do? Pass up on money? Money they want/need as they are a company? This shouldn't be that big of a deal, and why am I defending this so bad when I don't even want the item? My life right now. -
09-30-2016, 03:01 PMJynx*Gasp* People need to play the game for rewards? Heaven forbid they do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by cammi
Your comparison to the market boards is also flawed as gil in the game is (For the most part) Only achievable by again...playing the game. Rewarding the players for...playing, this allows them to focus their efforts in fields they enjoy and use Gil to bypass some systems such as farming or gathering, where as those that supply the stock for the markets benefit in kind by providing others with a service they wish to not do themselves.
All of this happens in the game with no influence from the outside world other than the players interaction with the game and community, and these actions benifit all players by keeping people in the game and playing with eachother. purchasing something from the mog shop does nothing for the community nor does it involve the game in any way other than your interactions with your rewards after purchase. It's just bad game design to encourage people to NOT PLAY your game, sure the financial gain in the short term is good (Perhaps even great) But it damages your long term prospects.
Removing potential content, rewards, incentives, goals...all of these act to detract from the overall game experience for your players. Many may consider it a "Convenience" in a way it is, but it is also actively encouraging you to not play the game itself and instead designed to quickly spend your vested interests in short term cash purchases instead of investing the resources into the game itself.
It's not hard to wrap your head around business wise it's a good idea to extract as much cash from a property as fast as possible, they never know when the next WoW will release so why bet on the long game of retaining subscribers when they can get the cash now and players are more than willing to oblige?
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More to your original point. Why not both sides then?
http://i.imgur.com/lwih7X4.gif
Why not include the content in the game behind content and purchasable in the cash shop... Would not that actually be the most consumer focused way to introduce some of this vanity content?
I mean who would it hurt if that moogle mount could be earned through finishing the moogle beastmen tribe that takes weeks of dedicated playtime to accomplish...or to purchase it with cash to skip the actual work? As long as they kept the majority of the games content as...content only rewards I would be OK with the general cash shop content existing in both realms attainable ingame and out of game. -
09-30-2016, 03:15 PMcammiIf they did both then that I think would be the best way, that I agree with. To defend my point on the mb tho it was mainly that people would NEVER do that. It doesn't matter that it's just ingame gold, the point was that if the shoe was on the other foot people will do what SE did. They would charge for it. That was my main point on that example, yes it might've been a reaching example, BUT if you just look at the example it's the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
But moving on from that example, yes they could've did both. But I see why they didn't, seeing as loud as the people who told them they would out right pay for it again, what was SE posed to do when a large amount of people kept begging them to put it in the shop to begin with? But what about the other example? THe hair one that's in deep dungeon? I only bring these things up as people will complain no matter what they do. I can see people complain about them putting the dress in the game AND the shop as people who did the quest would complain others can just buy it making their effect pointless. My biggest point is that SE can't win here no matter what they do, which is sad but what can you do. Again I'm not completely disagreeing with you. I'm just looking at both sides and seeing no answer in stock. -
09-30-2016, 03:19 PMColorfulPeople are willing to pay for anything and everything. $1,000 for an Alexander 3 set? People will buy it, hell even $100 for just a glamour version of the weapons and it will be sold. The Alex 3 savage mount? It could be sold for $50, easily. They could remove event gear entirely and just give us just minions/furnishings and the gear would be sold, they could sell FF clothing instead of giving us veteran rewards, you even have people asking SE to sell those, they could sell the Type-0 hairstyles, etc. People won't unsubscribe because they still enjoy and love the game, and it's not bad enough to warrant quitting the game. Saying it should be sold because people would pay for it is a poor excuse, the only reason SE doesn't go that route is they don't want to sink their reputation.Quote:
Originally Posted by cammi
The issue people have is the double dipping in a subscription based game, oh and before someone makes a comparison to WoW's cash shop compare the differences, I won't list dyes as they're earnable in game.
Pets: WoW - 11, FFXIV - 14
Mounts: WoW - 10, FFXIV - 6
Helmets (not including recoloured helmets as there's too many): WoW - 3, FFXIV - 7
Emotes: WoW - 0, FFXIV - 3
Barding: WoW - N/A, FFXIV - 2
Housing: WoW - N/A, FFXIV - 7
Cosmetic Sets: WoW - 0, FFXIV - 20+
Individual Pieces (summer clothing, yukata, weapons, earrings, etc.): WoW - 0, FFXIV 60+.
WoW specific items: Level up potion and WoW token.
WoW has been out for almost 12 years, FFXIV for a little over 3 years... can you spot the difference?
Changes we've seen since the implementation of the cash shop in WoW:
Get the negatives out of the way first, the colossal fuck up that was Warlords of Draenor and that's no understatement. Legion seems to be making up for it, but there's still plenty of time for that to be ruined too. There's also less mounts in game and that about covers it for negatives. Positives? Raids with far more attention to detail with massive visual improvements, more voice acted content globally, with a large amount of Legion being voice acted (even regular mobs are voice acted), addition of Australian servers, massive undertakings in programming in order to implement an amazing glamour log system and improved void storage, hand animated pre-rendered cutscenes (they're rare though, but happen more often than pre-WoD), that about covers the positives.
Changes we've seen the implementation of the cash shop in FFXIV:
No negatives as far as I can tell! Positives? European servers which are expected on launch for any MMORPG, but what else? Nothing. We had to sacrifice a dungeon to get more varied content such as Diadem and PotD, but otherwise it's the same content that's been released since 2.0. All the content that was promised is still delayed behind excuses such as server limitations, meaning no server improvements have been made, we still have no addon API, the major changes that were promised with Heavensward to compete with up and coming MMORPGs never came, no summoner egi glamour still, anything that is a massive undertaking hasn't been implemented.
How can anyone believe their funds are going back to FFXIV? The budget seems to have stayed the same since launch, bar the costs required to maintain the European servers. If anyone can tell me otherwise, please do so I can actually justify giving them extra money. -
09-30-2016, 03:49 PMNolLacnalaOne of my all time favorite gifsQuote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
It's really troubling when one of the pit lords of MMO hell, NC Soft, can one up a triple-A company like SE by implementing an in-game exchange system for players to sell gold for cash shop currency -
09-30-2016, 05:19 PMChiramuBlizzard has also release minions on the cash shop where 100% of the proceeds went to charities. During Cataclysm they made the Cinder Kitten for the cash shop, 100% of his proceeds went to support the Red Cross in their relief efforts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
I wonder if SE will ever make things for charity too? If it goes to a good cause paying on the cash shop is perfectly acceptable. -
09-30-2016, 06:58 PMFelisIn China it is Shanda GamesQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
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09-30-2016, 07:54 PMcammiAnd what is wrong with people spending their money how they want too? If people want to spend their money on insane toys and whatnot who cares? I also never said the money was going back into FFXIV. I only mentioned SE as a company is ofcourse going to answer to money.. why wouldn't they? Any company would do the same in this context. Again SE can't win here cause no matter what they do people will complain. The best options would've been to either A not bring the item here OR put it in the store and in the game behind an event.. that way atleast everyone can get it how they want too. But I feel like I'm wasting my typing as they didn't do both, they only answered to the people willing to throw their money at them. And for that I can't say I blame them, but then again I'm looking at it as if people want to spend their money then who am I to judge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
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09-30-2016, 10:49 PMColorfulThere's nothing wrong with people spending their money on whatever they please, nor did I say there was. :p Just stating what I personally believe to be a bad practice, and the argument that it should be sold because would buy it. I mean, do we really want levelling potions in FFXIV? Blizzard makes large sums from those alone, many people would buy it and it's not pay to win to top it all off. As for people always complaining, yes there's bound to be that one person who complains that they missed the event that was on for 2 months and they want it extended, but for the majority an in game event would be far preferred to being sold the item as long as it wasn't an extremely grindy event.Quote:
Originally Posted by cammi
They sold it because people screamed "Sell this to me!" and I'm unsure why this community wants everything to be sold to them, and still continue to do so (I saw someone asking to be sold Edda's clothing at that). I've read the WoW forums on and off and I've only seen a few cases where people asked to be sold stuff, while it's very common on this board. Can I judge people for spending money when there's no option? No, it would be stupid to do so not to mention hypocritical. I can ask that people don't ask for everything they want to be on the Mogstation though. As for the comment on where the funds go, that's addressing other arguments I've seen elsewhere. Again, if someone can mention how our content has increased/improved since the introduction of the cash shop I'd happily be proved wrong. But hey, maybe they can get FFXV running at an alright 30 FPS before its launch now. -
09-30-2016, 11:33 PMKaurieI guess they could always put it in enjoyable content, instead of trying to lock it behind money or forcing people into content that they don't want to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by cammi
Personally, I'd have put it behind some sort of seasonal event (is it Chinese or Korean, I am unsure. If Chinese, I'd do it as a Chinese New Year event reward). -
09-30-2016, 11:48 PMMelorie
Honestly, it's quite amazing how people from this community can defend, agree and even prefer items in the mogstation when they already pay a sub. It's almost if they do not like any aspect of the game. A bit scary, too. I'm a casual glamour-lover player and frankly, I can't understand this. Buying an item because it's there, okay, but defend and ask for more items there? LOL. Makes me feel bad about the future of the game.
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10-01-2016, 12:24 AMJynxThe answer is simple. Publishers have beat consumers into submission to think the only way they can get new cool stuff is to pay extra for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melorie
Much like DLC they kept beating on that drum until we went from rage at the sight of horse armor to giving rave reviews because of its inclusion. Publishers would have you believe the developers scrape by with what funds they have barely. -
10-01-2016, 12:28 AMLoggos
Oh boy, I have been on a writing spree. I'm just very passionate about this topic. Now if university essays wrote themselves that easily...the dream...more time to play. :p
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I am also on the cash critical side here because in all seriousness I would like to see a financial justification for it. If SE was suffering greatly to keep FFXIV up and the subs were just not cutting it then I could understand the cash shop. So far I have not come across anything that proves this to be the case though so it seems like mere generation of a lot of sweet extra money with little effort and compensation on the player's side that does not come close to the benefit SE draws from this.
The reason this sits so unwell with me is because that there is no substantial value behind those items.
Every value and every exclusivity is assigned to them, i.e. whether it is valuable or not is decided by SE alone (as opposed to rare materials, high real life production costs, etc.) even though it does not necessarily hold such a value.
It is for that reason very difficult to assign a proper price to a virtual item (but that should not mean in turn that every price is acceptable).
Now before you say "but such an item requires development time" then I would say that this does still not justify the price because look at it like this:
The financial effort to create this good is limited to the designing, modelling and coding of the item once.
After that you can reproduce it endlessly without any material cost. You put in the work once but you can get unlimited copies out of it with the press of a button without evening out any further production that you normally would have to pay continuously if you plan to sell a real life item on a regular basis.
Because of this, given the world wide player base the development price can be regained quite quickly.
Another thing is, that despite certain development time items are still not priced accordingly, but again simply by the value SE wants the item to be seen with. The best example is honestly the game itself.
If you buy the collector's edition you paid, what, 50 euros for the original game? (It's such a long time ago, already. :p I don't quite remember.) You then of course pay subs for servers and patches but given that offline titles often range in the same dimensions it is not unreasonable to assume that this could be the price for the development of the original game - or at least a significant part of it. It is also quite obvious that the developent that goes into the whole game exceeds the creation of a simple dress by far, yet the dress costs between a fourth and a fifth of the price of the whole game (13.50 euros for EU players).
Even if the game price did not cover the whole game but, say, just the creation of Gridania and everything else is subs, there'd probably still be much more development involved in that than compared to the dress.
I think this shows how any value assigned to a glamour item is pure politics and an arbitrary practise of assigning exclusivity. This is why I'm not really convinced of arguments like "this is an acceptable price". This cannot easily be measured. There is maybe no "acceptable price", there may just be the price that we buy or reject it for which is a mixture of everyone's personal threshold and SE's pricing.
As much as I do not judge people who buy the dress as much are people justified to be angered by the price and consider it too high. I mean, heck, you could buy a real piece of clothing for that already.
I do however agree with the sentiment that this is bad business practise on the side of SE because it seems relatively evident to me that they just use this as a formidable opportunity to milk a cash cow without returning the real profit they make back to the game - or at least a significant part of that profit.
Ideally I would also like to have every content covered by my sub because I want to play content for items and earn them. That would be my favourite solution. I could settle with certain alternatives, e.g. they put it in the cash shop AND the game path or simply holding prices very low in the 1-5 euro range (that is what I am personally prepared to pay for such items).
On a side note: I know that there are some people who will buy glamour items that I consider highly overpriced and will provide SE with the customer feedback that they can keep on doing this. But that doesn't mean that everyone in the community agrees with the cash shop model, and neither does it mean that those who like to have cash shop items also endorses the "buy all at all costs" mentality. To basically say "you wanted this, now any criticism as to how it has been handled is obsolete" is not convincing, for reasons that others have already stated before me. -
10-01-2016, 12:31 AMMelorieYes. People act like Square Enix is doing a favor for them. I even heard back when the moogle mount was released "People spent a lot of effort on it, are you saying those people shouldn't be paid for their efforts?". Which isn't true at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
People go out of their way to justify the price. "Oh, it's account-wide" (not the case, which is worse if you ask me), "Oh, it has a XP bonus" (it shouldn't even be there?), "Oh, but this is from China" which doesn't say much, there's no way to know how that affects the pricing at all and I would like SE to be more transparent about this process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggos
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10-01-2016, 12:38 AMLokierAlways thought that was a stupid thing to say when it comes to video games;Quote:
Originally Posted by Melorie
Pretty sure, even in Japan, people are given an hourly salary; I doubt their income hangs on the balance of you buying a, quite frankly, ugly mount. They're not commissioned artists that make their living painting / drawing / tattooing, they have a legit job. x) -
10-01-2016, 01:20 AMMugiawaraThat's not what gets me, what got me was when a user literally said he would buy something in there if it was $60 in the other Mog topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melorie
I ain't fxcking trying to make SE add something in there that costs more than newly release video game for a frilly tutu.
Someone probably said they would pay a lot in the first place and thats why all the newly things in Mog are so damn high. -
10-01-2016, 02:01 AMcammiI get you, and no you're not wrong. I think I'm just being abit too defensive as I had people in real life shame me for what I do with my own money. Like I hold down my place and bills better than 90% of my friends, yet I'm horrible cause they see me spend a good chunk of change on video games. So I'm admitting that I might be taking this topic abit to personal. I do wished they atleast did both options then everyone would atleast have a chance at getting it how they wanted to get it. Instead of being forced to get said item only one way, cause not everyone can be retired at 34 with change to spend. And it would be nice if the money went back into the game, this I will always agree with. But if it isn't then FF15 should've been 60 FPS a long time ago.. since thats where people money is going. But that's a different topic I don't want to get into. - not a fan of 15 :c -Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
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10-01-2016, 02:05 AMcammiI say we get more people asking for this and it could happen. Problem is I think more people are willing to throw money at them, there should be other options. I wish I could find an old post I made, but it was pretty much why can't they do both. A themed event would've been cool tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie