Palace of the Dead (PAX)

Id honestly worry about that issue when the content comes out, I'm pretty sure that they said they were working on increasing armory chest space, but if you think about this in the sense that it is separate content(would they allow us to bring max ether or other outside items for use in or will we use what is found and a seperate inventory table for this content?) It would be weird if we just dumped our chest out in a retainer then filled it with bis crafted for each level jump just to get the upper hand in the content also. I mean what are save points for really?

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

It would be weird if we just dumped our chest out in a retainer then filled it with bis crafted for each level jump just to get the upper hand in the content also. I mean what are save points for really?

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I like how people keep discounting how strong crafted can be for the price you pay for it. Crafted armor is a substantially greater investment than any other armor in the game, requiring millions of gil just for one piece on melding alone. Or if you have no intention of spending even 1 gil the time investment is still greater than that required for any other armor in the game. If you can ready a set of crafted to try and get the upper hand in Deep Dungeon, then I say more power to you as you're treating it far more seriously than anyone else.

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Originally Posted by Mholito

The weapons are the exception to that rule actually. I think it's because it switches your weapon, then unequips everything else before equiping the rest of the gearset.

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yeah because the weapon is what really switches the job u are , so the check goes weapon > everything else

this weapons of "light" , maybe arent new weapons and just the buff inside (level sync 1 ) ....

i'm more concerned by the type of reward you will earn from this content, the idea behind is nice, but if you think about it. the item you will bring from outside (armor and such) will have almost no impact, progression separated...

then what will be reward? only cosmetic? will be sad...

It all depends upon the rewards. If the rewards are not good enough this will end up an abandoned cave like Diadem pretty soon. There needs to be some long term rewards. If the rewards are not important or cool enough and they put a mount as a reward which will you will take in few days, then you will have no reason to do it again then it will be a waste of time. Time will tell but I my expectations are low.

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Originally Posted by LDR

Wait

is this the XIV version of DMC's Bloody Palace I asked for a while back

mmmmmmmmjuicy

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Bloody Palace doesn't end until you die. Knowing Square this will have limited floors and they did say they will "add" more floors in patch updates.

Finally sounds like something refreshing. Anxious for it
Not sure i understand yet the ranking system, you start @ level 1, for what?
I have most jobs @ 60 already or is this something entirely different?

hence why i said "version of"

SE wouldnt dare do a literal copy in fear of it being to hard for most.

it will be adapted to suit XIV style
but its still sounding very much like the "core" idea of BP
which
yay

They can't afford to mess this up.
The wound is still open from 3.1's blunder, please make this good Square, this is the variety I'm looking for.

I may be overly optimistic about it, but I doubt this will fail as hard as Diadem because it won't be a 72man hunt zerg. I'm looking forward to dungeon crawling this solo plenty, along with a few unorthodox runs ready. I fully expect the excitement to die off a lot in a week, and the rewards will be as ridiculous as the Feast rewards, but being able to solo this will keep it afloat longer than Diadem.

My expectations: If I can go in, kill things, and get a challenge out of it, it's a success. Yes it's that low, but its pretty hard for them to screw that up. Hell I actually enjoyed Diadem before it became only dino island (which was about... 1 day?)

I'm actually really stoked about this. :D

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Originally Posted by Maero

Finally sounds like something refreshing. Anxious for it
Not sure i understand yet the ranking system, you start @ level 1, for what?
I have most jobs @ 60 already or is this something entirely different?

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You will keep your jobs at 60 but for this content it will have its own progression where you start at level 1 again within the dungeon and you level up in there. The ranking system is basically how far people get in the dungeon based on job. If I the furthest in the dungeon like Floor 70 I would be in first.

This sounds super fun and I am excited for it!

I just hope I can be capable as a SCH since I'll probably be doing this with friends way more than solo. Up until level 30 my only healing abilities will be my fairy and physick. Not even esuna until 35, and no AoE heal until 40. (Unless you count Selene but that cooldown timer... lol)

As someone who does not have time for extended gathering, no time to wait around for people to do low clear % content (not savage) and absolutely despises what crafting has become this is like a dream come true!
If they do it right, this will be something I will do every day and love it.

Now, for the love of all that is good, please give it lots of attention.

Will all jobs be able to clear? How are the rewards? Are they varied and useful? How are these rewards obtained? It would be good if its both from bosses, mobs and hidden chests. Does it have hidden rooms for more exploration? How much RNG is involved in this? Too much and you lose people. Give it some lore, like stone monuments that explain the history or something that will shed light on the backstory of the place and its use. Will it have a weekly quest? To me, it would be good if it did. Give it a surprise element, like mobs crawling our of the ground or falling from the ceiling.

This is a wonderful opportunity, lets make it good!

Imagine... what if SE does a good job with this AND manages to fix the Diadem?

XIV's endgame scene at the moment is incredibly weak. The game desperately needs endgame content that doesn't ultimately get reduced to eight-man statics and monotonous jump roping.

Between deep dungeons and the Diadem, we have the potential for solo, small-group and large-scale endgame content.

Come on, SE... DO THIS RIGHT!!!!

I really dislike the independent progression system. The last thing I want after weeks/months (whatever it is) of obtaining my gear is for it to become worthless. This works in both ways, gear I've worked hard to obtain will be negligible in there, and progress I work hard to obtain there will be negligible outside of it. To me, this makes this content a pass.

We'll see how it goes though, it may be a fun. Though in all honesty, I play an MMO to keep my progression of my character.

On a side note, this seems a lot like Fractal of the Mists from GW2

I hope the gear itself is more for the use in the dungeon itself instead of outside content like tome/raid sperate them. This be a good way of slowly add some horizontal stats to this feature for small group content. Though I hope they add more inventory storage at the entrance to gear up for it or something here to hope.

Sounds cool, but SE fooled me before with """exploratory""" missions.

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Originally Posted by odintius

I hope the gear itself is more for the use in the dungeon itself instead of outside content like tome/raid sperate them. This be a good way of slowly add some horizontal stats to this feature for small group content. Though I hope they add more inventory storage at the entrance to gear up for it or something here to hope.

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How does it add horizontal progression if it is only usable inside. That just means we have 2 separate vertical progressions for two different areas.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Sounds cool, but SE fooled me before with """exploratory""" missions.

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Exactly what I'm afraid of.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

How does it add horizontal progression if it is only usable inside. That just means we have 2 separate vertical progressions for two different areas.

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Materia and probably other ways as well for outside rewards besides just gear, which cause the whole well is it worth it or not situation in the first place. Think outside the box instead of staying in the box, I rather have stuff added interesting effect etc, than nothing at all and the rewards in this game is the biggest problem as I see it because of pure vertical progression.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I'm sorry, I do not understand your response.

How does materia fit into this conversation?
A. Because it could be used as a way to go to this feature to get ability/effect materia for jobs to be used while in said feature and special effect gear drops from here as well that can be converted in specialty materia to insert if you want to keep that effect on perhaps a better stat piece.
Outside rewards, I thought you said you hope it doesn't effect the outside?
A. Potions/food/materia/mounts/minions/treasure map/accessories perhaps thinking or rings, when you get at right level of course like max-ether potions drops etc, material used that only can get in this feature to be used to craft <insert name here> from drops/chest ect, gear doesn't need to be all be all of rewards if the gear used in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by odintius

Materia and probably other ways as well for outside rewards besides just gear, which cause the whole well is it worth it or not situation in the first place. Think outside the box instead of staying in the box, I rather have stuff added interesting effect etc, than nothing at all and the rewards in this game is the biggest problem as I see it because of pure vertical progression.

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I'm sorry, I do not understand your response.

How does materia fit into this conversation?

Outside rewards, I thought you said you hope it doesn't effect the outside?

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Q.How does materia fit into this conversation?
A. Because it could be used as a way to go to this feature to get ability/effect materia for jobs to be used while in said feature and special effect gear drops from here as well that can be converted in specialty materia to insert if you want to keep that effect on perhaps a better stat piece.

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This doesn't add horizontal progression. We already have materia as an option. This potentially (not even necessarily likely) just adds another vertical progression model with the same horizontal progression system we have in a limited environment. That isn't expanding horizontal progression,.

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Outside rewards, I thought you said you hope it doesn't effect the outside?
A. Potions/food/materia/mounts/minions/treasure map/accessories perhaps thinking or rings, when you get at right level of course like max-ether potions drops etc, material used that only can get in this feature to be used to craft <insert name here> from drops/chest ect, gear doesn't need to be all be all of rewards if the gear used in dungeons.

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I may have missed it, did they say that food and potions would be drops, and that they would be usable elsewhere? Accessories is gear btw.

That said, horizontal progression doesn't mean getting minions, mounts and potions. It's about obtaining gear that is of equivalent level with varying stats, so that you can change how you play without getting necessarily stronger.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I'm sorry, .

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The current materia system is a joke you can only increase your secondary stats mostly go to PvP NPC's and look at it materia/gear selection I'm asking for abilities/effects type of materia gear with set bonuses. Also you have to earn it in some way spiritbond convert gear something beside the current norm.

I suggestion on my part for an alternative rewards and duh accessories I only consider rings, because the one item you can't wear two of the same type they need to adding somewhere for this feature maybe not. All I see is will it be worth it comments the answer is no not with the current vertical progression we have currently. Is my sugesstion the all be all fix no, but at least I'm trying to come up with something not perfect but something.

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Originally Posted by odintius

The current materia system is a joke you can only increase your secondary stats mostly go to PvP NPC's and look at it materia/gear selection I'm asking for abilities/effects type of materia gear with set bonuses. Also you have to earn it in some way spiritbond convert gear something beside the current norm.

I suggestion on my part for an alternative rewards and duh accessories I only consider rings, because the one item you can't wear two of the same type they need to adding somewhere for this feature maybe not. All I see is will it be worth it comments the answer is no not with the current vertical progression we have currently. Is my sugesstion the all be all fix no, but at least I'm trying to come up with something not perfect but something.

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Oh, so you are requesting more horizontal progression, not suggesting that this content will provide it?

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Oh, so you are requesting more horizontal progression, not suggesting that this content will provide it?

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Kinda both I like what we have I just like something more added around it that's all :) I also think this feature be the entry point to add or stepping stones to slowly introduce it into the game.

At first I was excited,

Then I remembered Diadem.

I suppose it's too early to snap to judgment... but my honest "initial" reaction to the pictures and content info was described in two words:tacky and cheap. Of course, things are not polished yet and we are just looking at images of future content.

I know that they're trying the whole pseudo "competitive PVE" thing for people who don't want to do the "competitive PVP" thing. I guess I was just expecting something more... creative.

Maybe at the bottom we will get to fight Elidibus who summons a form of Zodiark, and the Summoners who are able to survive for the entire fight will be able to summon it as an Egi.

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Originally Posted by odintius

The current materia system is a joke you can only increase your secondary stats mostly go to PvP NPC's and look at it materia/gear selection I'm asking for abilities/effects type of materia gear with set bonuses. Also you have to earn it in some way spiritbond convert gear something beside the current norm.

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For abilities/effects type of bonuses, each ability/effect that give you a gain, has to come with something detrimental as well. The abjuration gear in XI had both positive and negative effects as an example.

A good thought popped in my head. We should lose all our current gear in there and have to find and obtain our gear as we ascend floors. Either that or weapons and gear have their stats reset and level using some sort of innovative system on each floor giving the players choices for our preferences. Maybe each level we get stat points or something. That'd be pretty sweet.

I'm honestly being VERY and EXTREMLY skeptical of this new content. The big promising content in the past were always announced as something neat and awesome. But in reality it ended being something simple and brainless.

Alliance raid: You'll all enter these large places where everyone will have to work together to clear it.
Me: Oh sweet, this is going to be awesome. A giant dungeon to run and explore with an alliance! What is that? Crystal tower?! Oh damn, can't wait to climb that tower
Reality: *throws in dungeon timer* Follow path A -> Fight trash in specified closed space -> Keep following Path -> Fight boss -> zone in to the next place....rinse and repeat


Diadem: We'll let you venture the open sky of heavensward on airships. Landing on random generated islands where you can do whatever you want! And find all kinds of hidden treasure and difficult NM's!
Me: Oh sweet! I can see it already, flying around with my FC/party members on our special crafted airship. Floating around in the sky like ffxi airship travel. Running and goofing around on the ship itself. Until we find some islands to explore with god knows what on it! Adventure! Ahoi!!!
Reality: *throws in instance timer* Instanced zone with always the exact same layout. Enjoy your 5 seconds cutscene where you simply are able to stare at said airship. Run around like zombies, killing stuff for said chests to pop. What was that? Adventure? Exploring? Chilling with friends? Hah! Good one, now go farm stuff in a brainless manner like you're always used too.


Yes, I'm still somewhat bitter about that. And I honestly hope, like REALLY hope that I'm so wrong on this new promised content. Because I wouldn't end up being surprised that this promised randomness will be very limited.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

We should lose all our current gear in there and have to find and obtain our gear as we ascend floors. Either that or weapons and gear have their stats reset and level using some sort of innovative system on each floor

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My money is on the level/ilvl capping standard. First floor caps you at 20 (or whatever starting level, I'm guessing low since it's in an ARR zone), and each floor progresses.

The ilvl cap for the deepest level will be reachable in 6 month old gear, so like PvP "ilvl won't matter."

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Originally Posted by Vydos

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Couldn't have said it better myself. Hope I'm very wrong about what I feel it will be, but three years of the same content doesn't speak very well about their job. I'd rather stay negative about the whole thing and be surprised than be positive and hyped and be let down. Again.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

Couldn't have said it better myself. Hope I'm very wrong about what I feel it will be, but three years of the same content doesn't speak very well about their job. I'd rather stay negative about the whole thing and be surprised than be positive and hyped and be let down. Again.

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You're thinking just like me. I'm also staying negative on it as to not get dissapointed too much if it ends up being bad. And ending up being surprised if it turns out great.

I'd really like to see SOMETHING unpredictable in this game. Pretty much every scrap of content we have now, once you learn it, it's the same every time you do it. Once you've overcome the challenge, there's no longer any danger; just an endless, repetitive grind. Nyzul Isle was great that way; most of the time, floors were pretty easy, but every now and then you'd run into one that was just plain unfair - and I loved rising to the challenge of it. Maybe we'd succeed, maybe we wouldn't. Succeeding was a thrill, a real sense of accomplishment. And failure? Well, there's always next time.

The advertisement that this content is going to include randomly constructed dungeons gives me SOME hope, but the fact that they're hyping up the casualness of it makes me nervous. If it's easy, either the rewards will be terrible - or they'll be good but you have to grind for months to get them. If the former, it'll be a novelty that loses folks' interest in short order, much like the Diadem is now. If the latter, it's just another in the pile of easy-but-long grinds that the game already offers; nothing new at all.

My hope is that even if the dungeon starts off casual and easy, eventually as more and more of it is added in future updates, it'll grow some teeth. When it does, I hope that the difficult doesn't come from anything you can prepare for. I want to see enemy ambushes out of the blue where you're suddenly fighting with everything you've got to survive - and, thanks to the randomness, survival is not necessarily a given, no matter how good you are. I DON'T want to see another scripted boss, where everyone needs to dance perfectly to avoid a wipe. We have enough of those.

It's tough to build up a lot of enthusiasm for this... The Hunt and the Diadem were such woeful disappointments. I've seen a lot of great ideas in this thread on how it could be made awesome (and a lot of ideas that were not so great - but interesting, at the very least!). Hopefully, SE will rise to the occasion, and provide something truly unique to this game.

Crystal Tower was ok. Sadly it was nerfed, so you can rush trough CT1 - CT3 in no time. But still its a nice 24-man dungeon. I would love to have an option to visit crystal tower unsync ^^.

Diadem was not that good. I ve expected much more, but at the end, it was mindless dinosaur grind at the bottom isles. Nothing to explore, because its still the same map for all difficulties. SE have to rework this from scratch. Make it smaller, but random. Give players something unique!

Palace of the Dead. I m very excited. But I m skeptical, too.

Eh, this could be really good but knowing Yoshi and friends, they come up with good stuff then brainstorm on how to ruin it.

I also have a feeling it's going to be faceroll easy.

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Yes, I'm still somewhat bitter about (the Diadem).

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SE's mishandling of the Diadem was, in my opinion, the single-biggest mistake this dev team has made. This game's only real endgame is a hardcore raiding system that's only completed by <1% of the playerbase. This game NEEDS a more accessible endgame in a bad, bad way. Too many people get bored and leave, or they just unsub until the next patch. There's really no excuse for that.

Rather than hope people keep coming back, why not just give them in-game goals? Grinding tomes eventually becomes pointless if there's no reason to have the gear.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

SE's mishandling of the Diadem was, in my opinion, the single-biggest mistake this dev team has made. This game's only real endgame is a hardcore raiding system that's only completed by <1% of the playerbase. This game NEEDS a more accessible endgame in a bad, bad way. Too many people get bored and leave, or they just unsub until the next patch. There's really no excuse for that.

Rather than hope people keep coming back, why not just give them in-game goals? Grinding tomes eventually becomes pointless if there's no reason to have the gear.

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In my opinion it was how they 'fixed' diadem and other mistakes. They keep on acknowledging mistakes, but then their fixes have nothing to do with the problem and they keep on making more of the same. It just shows they have 0 idea of what was actually wrong in the first place. That, to me, is the biggest mistake. Diadem was a failure for sure, but losing all confidence in the dev's ability to learn, adapt and deliver is what is going to lose my sub.

My view on every single Live Letter since Heavensward hit:
Yoshi: We understand that you do not like this content because of X. In order to tackle this, we are going to increase X and you need to git gud. For new content, we are adding more X, because we know that you all hate it so much, but this time it is in a very unique experience - where in order to get X you need to do X 3 times, stand on your head, count backwards from 100 while also singing the alphabet backwards at which point you'll have 0.1 X's.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

Couldn't have said it better myself. Hope I'm very wrong about what I feel it will be, but three years of the same content doesn't speak very well about their job. I'd rather stay negative about the whole thing and be surprised than be positive and hyped and be let down. Again.

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Well. If you have promises in one hand and bullshit in the other. What are you really holding on to?