it basicaly is dynamis in its own right, except it isnt instanced....(and it has chests you can far, instead of relying on random as drops)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
its pretty awesome
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10-19-2011, 12:42 PMTheVedis
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10-19-2011, 12:44 PMXxOstiaxXIt is, honestly i have not yet reached that level, and watching the video, i'm really wanting to reach that,and participate, again i'm not hating on the game, the video looks fun, no doubt, but i dont consider that on par with a raid, now to each it's own, let's see if i can get a party and get some levels on my lancer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynn
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10-19-2011, 12:45 PMTheVedisits really no different then any other raid in any other gameQuote:
Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX
tank and spank your way to a boss(or dodge mobs and run from them)
so you really cant say its any different
and the bosses are always fun -
10-19-2011, 12:47 PMAlerith
Honestly, I think strongholds are more of a raid than Darkhold right now, if only because Darkhold has you bypass EVERYTHING to get to the boss.
At least you're "raiding" in the strongholds. -
10-19-2011, 12:50 PMShinrasolider
Much like everyone else, $5 seems to be a reasonable price as long as they don't charge extra for retainers. $12 on this game with 2.0 still 2 years out is a bit hard to stomach though.
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10-19-2011, 12:50 PMXxOstiaxXFFXI was utter garbage when it comes to end game content :/ time sink does not equate to challenge :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
Now again if to "YOU" that is endgame content Cool! If Se idea of end game content is zerging a zone, and tank spanking fights with one out of every 10 fights actually having a fight(Ifrit), then good luck getting the 90% of the population that left. -
10-19-2011, 12:51 PMTheVedistime sink is all any games endgame isQuote:
Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX
hell the entire point of mmos and all games are time sinks
its all about what kind of time sink you enjoy -
10-19-2011, 12:54 PMXxOstiaxXNow we both know this is not true, a tank & Spank is where you have your tank's get aggro and your dps stand in one location and just DPS the boss to death w/o any other strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
Even normal dugeons on cata, you could not tank spank mobs, let alone bosses, sure some of them where tank spank, but the larger % where not, out of every 10 fights maybe 3 are tank spanks, and thats being generous -
10-19-2011, 12:57 PMTheVedisi really hate using anything wow as an example cuz the fights arent tank and spanks for the most partQuote:
Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX
instead, they are scripted, in other words, do exactly what it wants you to do, or you die
and thats worse imo
but again, you still have not yet done the content, you CAN NOT use youtube videos as an example of how you have first hand knowledge and know what your talking about
we had another poster a while back who used youtube as their gospel for why they knew everything about the game, and i dont wanna think about that anymore lol -
10-19-2011, 12:58 PMWynnWell that's fair if you don't enjoy that kind of content. Darkhold is designed to run through to get to the boss. And with Ifrit, you literally just zone in to fight him. So there is a variety for all tastes, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX
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10-19-2011, 01:00 PMStarlordIts about 10 months away actually for PC Sept-Oct= Distribution of 2.0 SoftwareQuote:
Originally Posted by Shinrasolider
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10-19-2011, 01:13 PMDantesAmore
i definitely don't mind paying $12 for the game once 2.0 is out but current state it BARELY stands up to Runescape... thats $5 so between 5-7 makes more sense then 12
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10-19-2011, 01:18 PMDavorok
I'm thinking SE should offer 3 "Bundles" for subscription"
Bundle #1: $5.99 = One(1) Character & One(1) Retainer.
Bundle #2: $9.99 = Two(2) Characters & Two (2) Retainers. *
Bundle #3: $14.99 = Four(4) Characters & Four(4) Retainers *
* Retainers will be accessible by multiple characters if created on the same world server.
Example: Two(2) Characters created on the same server can share two(2) Retainers.
I don't know if the Retainer part is doable but thought I would throw it out there.
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10-19-2011, 01:21 PMRentahamsterVersion 2.0 is the revamped game that they are launching that will be their retail-ready game to present to the world. That game will be deserving of $12. Until that moment comes, Version 2.0, the game we all should have been playing already, is still incomplete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=28045
This is the same game. When 2.0 arrives, I'll pay $12 no problem. But while this current game is an unfinished 2.0, I don't think it's the best idea to charge like it is finished.Quote:
"The one thing though is we don't want people to think that version 2.0 is going to be a completely new game. It's still going to be FFXIV, it's still going to be in the world of Eorzea, it's still going to have those features that players have come to get used to in FFXIV. That's through these updates that we'll be making up through Version 2.0, that the transition from the game we have now into the new Final Fantasy XIV will be very smooth, but it's not a totally different game.
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10-19-2011, 01:21 PMTheVedis
lets face facts
people just want a deal
even if the game had 50 endgame raids, theyd still want to pay only 5 dollars if they could get away with it
thats the real truth behind all these threads, people wanna try to see if they can trick SE into charging less so they can pay less -
10-19-2011, 01:35 PMStarlord
Bottom line:
*Whatever SE Chooses for us to pay Monthly for FFXIV, Its either you pay and enjoy the game, or Option B Don't Pay Wait for 2.0, Twiddle your thumbs, Take a walk in the park, Go on a date, Go to a bar, Go to the Movies, Go to a Friggen Gentlemans Club for all I care. Use that 12.99 on something you want if FFXIV isn't up to snuff with you.
[SIZE="7"]END OF STORY![/SIZE] -
10-19-2011, 01:36 PMXxOstiaxXBut they are fun, hella fun(Not saying tank spanks fights are not fun, i particularly liked them because as a rogue i could dominate everybody in DPS.) also they are scripted too. just the most simple form of a boss fight, he stands there, and you just dish away, no worries no concerns, either he kills your tank, or you kill him, end of story, simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
Look at this fight for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcSj0...eature=related
Not a tank spank, instead your healers have to heal the target boss, to win the encounter while you hold the enemy at bay :P Now weather scripted is better or tank&Spank is better, in my opinion T&S is the most basic if scripted fights, i really dont know how people can even lose a fight like that. -
10-19-2011, 01:38 PMAnapingofnessI'll have to ask you to clarify just a bit, if you don't mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davorok
Your proposal is up until 2.0 or throughout?
On the other hand, paying 6$ for a game would certainly make it stand out against all others. -
10-19-2011, 01:43 PMneostormm
i was ready to give all my money to SE..and willing to pay full price..only because I really like what they are doing now and I am enjoying myself...I've never stopped playing since Sept 2010 launch...I have seen it all..good, bad, really bad, worse, better..
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10-19-2011, 01:44 PMOMEGA_HACK
Math time:
Assuming there are 50,000 players playing the game as of now (Im not using the units sold number because lets face it, its not an accurate number anymore) if only 1/4th of the population would be willing to play the game under a full price subscription that is $12.99 x 12,500 = $162,375.00 a month from December 2011 until October (last billing date before 2month trial begins) 2012 for a grand total of $1,786,125.00 (assuming no one quits or rejoins the game in that time period).
Okay so 1.8mil give or take for full subscriptions assuming only 1/4th of the current population will continue to actually play. Now for the other side, say we only pay half of the bill for those 11 months, it seems that there are more people willing to pay this half amount of $6.49 so would it not be safe to assume that optimistically 3/4 of the population will continue to play and pessimistically 1/2 of the population will continue to play (either way there would logically be an increase in the number of subscriptions) Now for the math, let's do the 1/2 first.
So with 25,000 players paying $6.49: 25,000 x $6.49 = $162,250.00 (ut-oh you might already see a problem with this but let's continue) times that by the 11 months of paid service you get a grand total of: $1,784,750.00 compared to the numbers above Square-Enix (a business) loses out on ~$2,000.00 give or take a few hundred, while that may seem like nothing at this point we will continue with more math on why it really matters later.
For the optimistic viewer: we now have 37,500 players that are paying $6.49 for 11 months for a total of: $2,677,125.00 (Whoa! look at that number!) Compared to the full price you have made just about 1 million dollars more! (that is if that many people are REALLY willing to pay this price, honestly SE should do a mandatory poll on the issue, log into FFXIV > poll appears asking: What you would you pay to play this game in December until ver2.0? A) 12.99 B) 6.49 C) nothing, I'd quit > submit then play XIV, its that simple, but I digress...
back to the more "realistic" numbers I suppose of 50% and 25% populations let's look at the number of employees working on this project, recently it was revealed to be 250 people, the average game designer makes ~40,000 a year or 3,333.33 a month this billing cycle a single employee will make 36,666.66 on average, assuming there are the directors and lead designers we could realistically say that out of the 250 employees, 230 will get that pay listed meaning their collective pay is 8,433,333.33 I won't do the last 20 employees because we've already broke our budge, but I will say they make anywhere from ~50,000-90,000 a year...So basically the final numbers we have are:
Total payroll number for 250 game designers: $8,400,000.00
Total amount for 1/4 pop. @12.99: $1,786,125.00
Total amount for 2/4 pop. @6.49: $1,784,750.00
Total amount for 3/4 pop. @6.49: $2,677,125.00
Total amount for 4/4 pop. @6.49: $3,569,500.00
So there is the math right in front of everyone (give or take some but the principle is the same), SE should release the poll when you log into XIV, and from that gauge whether or not to charge full or half price, because if less than half of the population says they will quit if they get charged anything then it is going to be best for them to just make the resolute pay full.
Also to note, they aren't charging us because they think we are suckers, they are literally charging us to keep everything afloat, because just look at those numbers and remember they already have paid these people a year's worth of work for free basically. They are hemorrhaging money on this project, so honestly I will pay, because I want to see ver2.0 and I would love to witness the events that lead up to it.
My 2 math skills. (sorry for the long post) -
10-19-2011, 01:47 PMSniperRifle
With everything aside... I do not think that even if FFXIV is theeeee most addicting godlike 11/10 #1 MMO on the market, not all 100% of the subscribers will switch from 50% pay to full pay at the time of 2.0. Even though, 2.0 will still bring in many new players.
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10-19-2011, 01:48 PMXxOstiaxXLets face the facts, the game does not has one raid, not one raid, it has ONE end game encounter, and a bunch of camps where you roll your face while somebody tanks, sure it is content, but is it ? compared to what other company's offer ? that is the question, and the statement SE made is "We are almost at where we want to be at release, and at as such, we are gonna start charging" and in my personal opinion if that's what they think would have been a good release, well they just wasted a year, because the game would have failed regardless of weather they had yoshi or tanaka right now :/Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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10-19-2011, 01:49 PMDavorokIf the "Bundling" proved to be popular with players and generated the needed revenue for SE, I think they should keep it post 2.0 however, they could also drop the $5.99 One(1) Character Bundle @ v2.0 but everyone that stays will get an additional character with the $9.99 Bundle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
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10-19-2011, 01:50 PMWynnAll your math means nothing without knowing who will stay at full and who will stay a reduction. Not to mention you have to factor in the added cost that each player staying brings to the table for SE. This is what they have business analysts for.Quote:
Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK
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10-19-2011, 01:54 PMAlerithWhich brings up another good point. It isn't just one man that says "Aright, start charging." There is literally a team of business analysts at SE who have the sole purpose of crunching numbers and laying everything out for the higher ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynn
They wouldn't be charging if those analysts didn't give favorable input to the powers that be.
The plan they seem to be using is:
Use subscriptions to slow the bleeding from XIV until 2.0 comes out. Advertise like a mofo, pull out all the stops at E3 and pull in as many subscribers as possible with 2.0. Use that momentum to pull in more players on the PS3 release and ride that momentum into the epic game many are expecting XIV to become. -
10-19-2011, 01:55 PMOMEGA_HACK
The literal math maybe (the exact numbers I mean), but the percentages will always be a constant; also you must have missed the portion where I said SE should release a mandatory very short 1 question survery on what players (who are logging into the game) would be willing to pay in Dec. That would get concrete numbers and from that SE would be able to make their call. Also the numbers, while long-winded were meant to show that even with subs the game is still losing money...a lot.
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10-19-2011, 01:57 PMScherwizJust so you know, not everyone wants the same content that you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX
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10-19-2011, 02:06 PMXxOstiaxXBut there is another problem inherent with this logic, we are assuming that SE is a competent company, what please do tell me what has given any signs that they are in the past 10 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
I bet they had those crunching number guys back a year ago, you know when they where saying FFXIV will compete with wow and that star wars game, and what happened ? i bet those crunching guy's gave favorable numbers then, and SE went ahead and fell flat on its face, because they do not understand the market, they are stuck in 1998, what more prove than this game ? In fact, anybody that actually thinks that SE is in financial trouble is plain dumb, sorry but come on, you act like FFXIV is the lifeline of SE, they have multiple games that have sold well last and this year, they have manga, they have FFXI, they sold 6mil copies of FFXIII(tho i hated it i still bought it).
Sure as a company SE wants money nothing wrong with that, but stop acting and pretending like if they don't charge or charge less, SE will go bankrupt. -
10-19-2011, 02:11 PMXxOstiaxX620K Players who left the game disagree with you, and so do the other players that if FFXIV had actually delivered on its promise of being a casual friendlier game than FFXI would have given it a Shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scherwiz
Just so you know SE is a company, a company likes money, the more of it in fact the better, i think everybody would agree that they are more interested in getting those 620K that left, than becoming again owners of a niche MMO, i mean is simple mathematics, 620K > 30K any day all day. -
10-19-2011, 02:14 PMAnswaWhat percentages? That's the only thing that IS speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK
Face the facts, ONE person paying is still more than the current NONE. Our poll on this forum, and, trust me, it for sure is representative (via word of mouth, since I've heard people trying to convince their friends to vote for the second option--leaving), is telling you that the percentage of people staying will be close to 70% of the current population. That renders all that you have said moot.
Hypothetically, of course.
650k units were shipped to stores. They weren't all sold.Quote:
620K Players who left the game disagree with you, and so do the other players that if FFXIV had actually delivered on its promise of being a casual friendlier game than FFXI would have given it a Shot.
Just so you know SE is a company, a company likes money, the more of it in fact the better, i think everybody would agree that they are more interested in getting those 620K that left, than becoming again owners of a niche MMO, i mean is simple mathematics, 620K > 30K any day all day.
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10-19-2011, 02:22 PMAlerithQuote:
Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX
Contradicting yourself here, but I'll work past it for the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX
SE is a competent company. Just because you don't like everything they've ever produced doesn't mean they haven't made billions on what they have made. I like VIII, X, XI, XII, not so much on XIII but it was playable.
The number crunchers don't get paid to play the game beforehand. They get paid to give the insight on how the figures project. They aren't game testers, they are paid to play, they do math. They would not have known that the game was going to flop on content.
I never, at any point or in any thread, said that SE would go bankrupt. I have said that XIV needs to start standing on it's own. Learn2readQuote:
Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX
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10-19-2011, 02:25 PMStarlord
Jesus lord have Mercy... every 2 secs, this is always on the top of the Forums.. I barely see it Grayed out :/
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10-19-2011, 02:34 PMMireille
I'd pay full price. I personally think the game is 25% right now not 50%, but I like the direction things have gone in so far. XIV v2 seems like good roadmap if they can actually pull off some of the radical stuff like worldless servers without my having to have XX at the start of my name because someone else has that name on another server.
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10-19-2011, 02:48 PMScherwizYou give me headaches I can't even describe, this selfish attitude of yours is a huge problem. I want content like WoW and LOTRO, but I refuse to accept that XI like content should be ignored. I do not know who quit this game, but I do know that a good portion of them were Final Fantasy XI players, good friends that I do want to play with again, stop trying to alienate them.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX
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10-19-2011, 03:04 PMAmyRaeMy answer doesn't really change if you compare it to Rift. You could compare FFXIV to UO if you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX
The fact is, FFXIV had to rework its foundation to its core and maintain two versions of itself while doing so. Those other games could just build on their success as is. FFXIV had to go back to the drawing board and change all the fundamentals around (the combat, the maps, the interface, the graphics engine, the features, the level progression, the economy, all the basics!). So of course it's not going to have the same amount of content a perfectly functioning MMO would have. It would be an impressive feat if it could.
So, no, you're not paying for a glorious amount of raid dungeons and bosses. If you're going to pay for a subscription, then you're paying to catch the storyline of how the world ends, previewing some of the 2.0 content firsthand, and maybe you'll get some nifty I-was-there items as a result (stuff you won't be able to get once 2.0 starts). And you're right to think that's not at the level of what you could get with a year's worth of content from a functioning MMO that didn't have to rewrite itself twice. I'm certainly not pretending it is.
If you value what they can offer, then stick around for it. Otherwise, don't. -
10-19-2011, 04:04 PMHuy
10,000 (Playerbase) x $12 x 12 (months) = $1,440,000 (maximum profit can achieve)
10,000 (Playerbase) x $7 x 12 = $840,000 (minimum profit can achieve)
5000 (playerbase) x 12 x 2 (Dec - Feb) = $120,000 (50% drop in playerbase due to pay to play at $12/month)
6000 x 12 x 2 (Feb - April) = $144000 (Patch 1.21 regain another 1000 playerbase)
7000 x 12 x 2 (April - June) = 168000 (Patch 1.22 regain another 1000 playerbase)
8000 x 12 x 2 (June - Aug) = 192000 (Patch 1.23 regain another 1000 playerbase)
9000 x 12 x 2 (Aug - oct) = 216000 (Patch 1.24 regain another 1000 playerbase)
10000 x 12 x 2 (Oct - Dec) = 240000 (patch 1.25 regain another 1000 playerbase)
Total after 12 months @ $12 with 1000 playerbase increase / 2 months / patch, our profit are 1,080,000 -
10-19-2011, 04:26 PMWynn
Let's all stop doing the math thing since none of us knows what we are talking about. Leave that to the professionals on retainer at SE.
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10-19-2011, 07:10 PMTyrr
What happens IF 2.0 is a failure? Charging full price atm may not be a good idea until 2.0 proves itself. The game that we are playing right now is not the exact game we will be playing post 2.0. I understand that SE would like to see something for what they have done so far but I feel it isn't at full price level yet. At the moment, 2.0 is just a bunch of pretty pictures. SE stands to lose alot more support by charging full sub at the moment and 2.0 fails. $5-$7 is fair for what the game is at this time. We may have played for free for a year, but SE got thousands of testers and feedback at the same time.
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10-19-2011, 07:15 PMAkira_Tenshi
The problem with charging less now and more later is that people will complain when they increase the price creating more negative attention for the game and Square really don't need that when they are trying to relaunch the game.
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10-19-2011, 07:22 PMBearforcehow do you know this? do you by any chance work with SE? if so how much money are you getting by posting in these forums?Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi