FFXIV is becoming a grind fest with little enjoyment.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

It wasn't at all complex, even competitive Pokémon battles are more complex than Verminion. Like I have said, I doubt it took a lot of time and resources than Void Ark and Diadem because most of it is already there and copy paste. Yes it's not a good game, and it's not a game worth the investment. People might as well say the entire Gold Saucer is, too.

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It is far more intuitive than Pokemon. To program what essentially is a pseudo-Star Craft takes an immense amount of time and effort. What might seem simple rarely is when it comes to code. Even if we did assume it took the equivalent time of Diadem or Void Ark... those are enormous dungeons. You're severely underestimating what it takes to program everything. What it translate to is Verminion took away focus from additional content. What might help LoV is if you could queue outside the Gold Saucer. For whatever reason, they seem determined to try and populate GS.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

It's not that they think the core game is flawless, but likely believe people will want different things to do. To quote a horrible EA line, they're trying to appeal to a "broader audience." Now there is merit to that approach, especially in a game expressly designed for more casual players.

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Funny thing is, FFXI and early WoW were heavily inspired by EverQuest and they were extremely successful. SE really needs to get back to their roots it seems. Casuals are a fickle bunch and it's difficult to earn their loyalty. It makes no sense trying to have them as your audience in a subscription based program. Also why is it that devs seem to think "casuals" can't enjoy the same things as regular gamers? It feels as if the whole vidya industry is pants on head crazy. It's like publishers have become cultists that believe magical casuals will shower them with money just by making games less enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

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Yes, I agree that LoV did get considerable resources that could be invested for other, and far more relevant things.
I'm not sure what's actually wrong with LoV since I only tried it until the Tam-Tara Challenge, had fun but forgot about it afterwards (Whoops) other than it being unable to queue outside the Gold Saucer though.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

It is far more intuitive than Pokemon...

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As someone who plays Pokémon competetively, I highly disagree with you there. I could explain why, but not here.

Anyway yes, I'll agree that it's not an easy task to create Verminion of course but I'd say alot more involvement from different teams were from other content, that's why I assume Verminion is definitely not the one that had the most resources invested on.

But yeah, I don't like how you need to be inside the Gold Saucer to play it, but I could understand since it's a GS and will stay as one for now.

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Originally Posted by Popotolord

Funny thing is, FFXI and early WoW were heavily inspired by EverQuest and they were extremely successful. SE really needs to get back to their roots it seems. Casuals are a fickle bunch and it's difficult to earn their loyalty. It makes no sense trying to have them as your audience in a subscription based program. Also why is it that devs seem to think "casuals" can't enjoy the same things as regular gamers? It feels as if the whole vidya industry is pants on head crazy. It's like publishers have become cultists that believe magical casuals will shower them with money just by making games less enjoyable.

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A lot of companies get bogged down in the delusion of an endless stream of new players, ala WoW or Pokemon. While there certainly is merit to that design philosophy, it's not sustainable. FFXIV has probably reached a point where it cannot continue to only adhere to a revolving door model and expect to succeed, though it does depend on what they consider "success." The fact this game is currently averaging roughly 800k might be enough for them.

The way I see it, 3.2 onward will decide many things. It's the first patch offering content most everyone wants, they also finally seem to be addressing housing. Unfortunately, it still comes down to SE choosing to actually support the game instead of forcing Yoshi P to work with a shoestring budget and a small staff. Right now, that's the biggest problem. The money from FFXIV isn't entirely going back into FFXIV, but funding other projects.

As a new player, the problems are not really with the grind itself - but the definition of grind in FFXIV - its especially repetitive with little to no real reward for spending the time. Levelling up extra jobs for those cross class skills is again, hugely time consuming and boring as anything because there is no recycled content, quests have already been completed and you're forced into repeating fates, dungeons and levequests which just get old after repeating them for the 50th+ time, new players like myself notice problems like this immediately and it severely impacts the enjoyment, sure you can argue the fact you could just concentrate on levelling on job to max level alone before switching, but lets face it - anyone who is more serious in playing will have checked guides, especially class guides and guess what - cross class skills will be one of the number one topics so whilst you don't really have to level extra jobs, not doing so weakens your main class considerably.

yeah , in 2.0 wasnt that bad because there were TONS of low lvl players doing fates at prime times in every leveling zone...nowdays u only see ppl at 40-50 range , so leveling a 2nd / 3rd class to get cross class skills is boring as hell...to be fair if SE really wants a revolving door , old players leave and new players enter ....they are doing a horrible job at it, and making leveling alt classes more "fun" than fate spam and 1 DR leveling a day....DR leveling needs to be repeatable and i dont mean infinite because ppl will level in a flash , but at least twice a day would help.

Basically everyone is bored. I personally believe it's the lack of challenge. Making things challenging comes with it's own problems though. You'll have people being toxic to others of they don't play perfectly so if it's brain dead easy, elitist or try hards that are apathetic will let bad play slide a little more because it's still being completed.

But then.. It's a bore fest.

They need to add more layers to this game but our average player skill is so crap, that they don't do it without people crying. There are people at 60 who STILL don't want to run aurum vale for a fellow FC member cuz they found it "tough"

A wise game dev once said "Disappointment and grinding, these are the core elements of our games"

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

Basically everyone is bored. I personally believe it's the lack of challenge. Making things challenging comes with it's own problems though. You'll have people being toxic to others of they don't play perfectly so if it's brain dead easy, elitist or try hards that are apathetic will let bad play slide a little more because it's still being completed.

But then.. It's a bore fest.

They need to add more layers to this game but our average player skill is so crap, that they don't do it without people crying. There are people at 60 who STILL don't want to run aurum vale for a fellow FC member cuz they found it "tough"

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It's not player skill, the will to learn is just non-existant in some players. They just want to turn their brain off and "play".

Blame SE all you want for making the game easy, it's also the fault of the players. As long as the behavior of more experienced player doesn't change don't expect the difficulty to rise in the next expantion, you'll just get dissapointed.

Tbh i'm not guiving any shit to toxic players anymore casual or triple legend it's just the same shit with a different color. Pushing buttons is something anyone can learn even without a lot of time just like good behavior is a skill that make the game fun to play.

what grind fest lol, it all seems like u just pop on for 3 hours and ur done for the day then 9 hours a week tops

I wish it was a grind a true grind like ffxi


maybe its because what we have to "grind" for just feels stupid/dumb to me the relic looks far worse than primal weapons so not going out of my way for it and mounts are just meha there maybe 4 i even want in the game the others just will sit there to never be used lol... there' like no motivation at least in my eyes to do the stuff... it would be one thing if it made it worth your while long term, but a few months and you will forget all about it sitting in your stash /inventory kind of makes it irrelevant and worthless

I started reading this thread and then realized it was from 2016...good bait Troy!

Doesnt help that they nonchalantly give away rewards for side content with the moogle tomestones which completely deletes the point of those content like beast tribes, EX and eureka just to fill in a content drought.

The last few months of an expansion are usually like this. Please enjoy the vacation so you can hit Endwalker hard.

Why ress a 5 year old thread with a quote that may not be attached to the game at all..?

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Originally Posted by Marcman

Why ress a 5 year old thread with a quote that may not be attached to the game at all..?

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Nothing changed about the reward/grind structure in the past 5 years though.

And nothing will change in the next 5 years. There is a reason why all these threads died.