is this game near the end of it's life?

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I don't think it's near it's death either, but when you keep eating French fries when you have high blood pressure you'll eventually die. Just like if you keep giving the same re-hashed content and formula over and over people will eventually get bored and leave. Yes some people aren't bored yet. But you will eventually of it's ALWAYS the same pattern formula.

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I dont think it is Dead either but there was just a big percentage of people who left since Heavensward. I see it on my friends list. I also started playing FFXI because of my board-em with FFXIV. FFXI just had a huge influx of people from FFXIV and most are saying the same thing about FFXIV now and why they left.. Cookie cutter dungeons, recycled content, never feeling like you get anywhere. The harder content doesn't reward you anymore than doing easier content..

But I do not believe the game is dying or at its end but it is at the point where if they dont change something they are going to have a mediocre game.. There are still plenty of loyal people who will pay to do the same things over and over or for glamour.



I have have not de-subed yet because I think the game has a huge potential, I am getting worried SE does not see that or is even listening anymore. I think they are more worried about how they can get people to buy more stuff in the cash shop. The cash shop was supposed to make the game better and did that happen? I am loosing my confidence in this game. Even a dieing game like FFXI feels fresher than FFXIV. I really think FFXIV has a good base to build on I just dont think SE feels like throwing resources at it. I mean look at housing and still not real fix. Housing is another thing that is really cool if they take advantage of it and give a people a reason to use their houses.. It just seem like since end game SE has no idea what to do with FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by NoahArks

Just logged into the game for fun. Tryign to play (haven't played for a month mind you), did they decrease the eso rewards on every dungeon and roulette? 15 for roulette? I remember it used to give 45 not even a month ago...

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same here, i dont feel like doing anything for a few days mostly afk.

What is it with people? I mean really what constructive purpose does a topic like this serve except to make any lurking reader possibly interested in playing FFXIV doubt their interest? You're effectively hurting the game with this kind of pointless doom and gloom.

Is the game near the end of it's life? I think the answer is; no, far from it.

It's apparent by the topic that you *personally* feel otherwise. The thing is, even if you and some other players feel the way you do, I don't think the majority of actual players feel the same way. You might find a receptive and like-minded audience here on the forums where people do indeed come to complain, but I don't think your view is shared by the majority of active players, actually I think a relatively small minority of players feel as you do.

Frankly it would probably be better for you and the game if you did take a break to let the apparent burnout fade, and play something else for a while. Either way, constant topics by a small, but vocal minority claiming doom and gloom help neither the game, nor the player.

This topic is pretty much how I have seen the forums of WoW, which has been dying ever since 2004. xD

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

It's apparent by the topic that you *personally* feel otherwise. The thing is, even if you and some other players feel the way you do, I don't think the majority of actual players feel the same way. You might find a receptive and like-minded audience here on the forums where people do indeed come to complain, but I don't think your view is shared by the majority of active players, actually I think a relatively small minority of players feel as you do.

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Like in my thread before it was deleted. There is no way to know how everyone feels. SE needs to implement an in-game vote system. That it is unlikely, which is why I think everyone talk to their friends and unsubscribe to physically show them if we are unhappy.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Like in my thread before it was deleted. There is no way to know how everyone feels. SE needs to implement an in-game vote system. That it is unlikely, which is why I think everyone talk to their friends and unsubscribe to physically show them if we are unhappy.

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Players who are unhappy always have that choice, but talking the game down and being overtly and overly critical of the game and developers is completely unhelpful. Honestly, if players who feel so negatively toward the game, because of burnout or whatever other reason, would take a break, and take their negativity with them, we would all be better off. And I include those players in that 'all'.

It's just not good for the players themselves to constantly be so negative about things, it affects them on a personal level too. It would be healthier for them to recognize that they need a break, and take one. Negative thinking can be like a cancer and spread to others. So folks with that attitude taking a break is helpful both to them, and the players around them.

Please note I am NOT telling people to leave the game. One of my best friends in he game is going to sub for a month every 40-odd days for the next 9-12 months because he knows he's burned out on it. But he will be back, and he will be better for it.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

snip snip snip white knight: SE does nothing wrong snip snip snip.

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https://i.imgflip.com/vzzph.jpg

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Originally Posted by Altera

This topic is pretty much how I have seen the forums of WoW, which has been dying ever since 2004. xD

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WoW subs are really down recently, and FFXIV has seen growth. In a similar timespan, the forums has become increasingly negative, and hyperfocused on efficiency and the *right* way to do things, with a hypercritical attitude towards the game and its developers, in a manner disturbingly reminiscent of the WoW forums. The in-game atmosphere has also become hostile towards new players or people who would slow things down, which is also very similar to what was happening in WoW.

I'm not saying that correlating data points imply causality, but the correlation certainly does make you think.

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Originally Posted by zosia

...image of White Knight riding a white war horse...

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Oddly enough, my favorite online RPG before this was White Knight Chronicles, so I am what I am, besides who doesn't like a knight in shining armor occasionally, I play one (shining bikini mostly) in-game after all. That said, if you find yourself agreeing with the OP, then why not take a break for a while and come back full of enthusiasm? People burn out, and perhaps you have too? You might find you enjoy the game much more when you return, and you've had time playing something else as well.

Honestly people being burned out happens in every game and it's not indicative of the game being at fault.

But, if you wish to stick your head in the sand, and ignore that, and pretend that I or anyone else are unrealistically defending something, I can't and won't stop you.

My honest opinion is that people who think it's dying have been expecting way more from their MMO than was reasonable.

ALL good RPGs have always been minimally grindy to finish, VERY grindy to complete. Looks EXACTLY like FFXIV. MMOs have to have lots of different kinds of content, because of all the different types of people playing. Some people raid, some people minigames, some people play casually and grind, some people like glamour, some people PvP, etc, etc. FFXIV has all of these. Not saying that's there's not room for improvement (because, my gawd, there IS), but there IS, in fact, content that can be improved. And the fact that the Dev team is small and the relaunch is so new (in MMO years), they're trying to implement LOTS of new systems to appeal to LOTs of different people in a short amount of time (read: Diadem, LoV, etc). That means some things are not getting attention (read PvP, raiding) right now. It is my hope that SE will see what people are playing and what they aren't and refocus their attention accordingly. I have faith they will, because that is a smart business model and will increase their profits, so in short, no I don't think it's remotely close to dying. I think it's just getting started.

But this thread necessarily has to be baseless speculation in order to stay on topic, so feel free to disagree with me.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

SE is mah waifu, nothing they do is bad

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I LOVE the relic, it has brought me more joy and happiness than I ever could have wanted. Casual players wanted a mindless toothless grind and they got it. /golfclap

I don't need the relic so I am not upset over it. I am not burned out over it so I can call a spade a spade. The relic grind is terrible and just more of the same BS repackaged from 2.0 with zero innovation. People are burned out because SE has burned them out with crap content for over half a year. 3.0 and 3.1 have been a flop and you can keep defending SE all you like, but you will be the only one left playing this game if you keep telling people to take a break. lolololol

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

make any lurking reader possibly interested in playing FFXIV doubt their interest? You're effectively hurting the game with this kind of pointless doom and gloom.

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So you propose that existing people basically shut up and leave, for a chance to trick new people to into the game? They are adults or teenagers, they can read the arguments and make their own decision.

That's like me complaining about the quality of food at my own restaraunt. Instead of letting the boss know the cake taste like poop. You'd rather I shut up and leave so new people who don't know any better will still eat it.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

...

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I have been playing this game since the start of 1.0. In that time some many things have been promised and still haven't been delivered.

Stats- They said in 1.0 the stats would be dumbed down in 2.0 but would be more unique as it went on. We still have the same stats.

Dungeons- They said they were not making 3 anymore to make 2 more unique. The new ones aren't any different than the others that came before.

Raids- Never really got to try them, because of the thing I hate most in this game, lockout-statics. I am the odd man out. By the time I could freely do it something better was already out negating me wanting to do the old content. It was not changed so that everyone could be rewarded for the experience like they said they were going to.

I can go on.

Yes. Honestly I don't understand how badly the game has gone, but it shows an inability to innovate. They (devs) are doing the same thing they have always done instead of moving the ball forward, and they are doing it in the least interesting way possible. Lets start off here with some core issues, then move to current ones.

1) Itemization is painfully boring.
Your main attributes mean more than secondaries to the point that if you can get more strength, that there is almost no circumstance in which another stat (say det or crit) would make an earlier piece of gear more or as valuable as a higher ilvl item. What this means is the only interesting decisions a player ever makes is between the same ilvl for very very VERY granular benefits. There is no real way to shape your play style around secondaries between two pieces of gear at any given tier. The gear is also incredibly boring---with a point or two of main stat being it really. There are no item sets which other games used or unique secondary effects on gear: something you saw both in FFXI and even FFXIV in 1.0, because Yoshi P believes this will cause issues where players will use older gear over newer gear--however *no* other game sees this as a problem, because that means players are now weighing options against one another. Do I want more strength and stamina or do I want -50% tp consumption on shield slam? Well this fight has a lot of stunning so maybe i'll use this shield vs that shield. Also item sets give huge rewards to players and are large carrots for them to persue. In WoW and most mmo's getting a 2/4/6 whatever piece bonus generally comes with great gameplay effects--it makes you FEEL awesome. Noting in FFXIV I'm sad to say does this any more.

2) There is no customization
Cross Class skills are a joke. Between the very small amount available and how some don't even make sense (why would a paladin want brutal swing, etc) your choices or more or less made for you. Of course every healer will get quick cast, every non paladin tank will take provoke. At this point where everyone picks the same thing, the point of this system is largely a failure. The purpose was to help non jobs but between pvp nerfs and the like this only makes any impact in the minority of gameplay (1 to 30). Cross class skills should just be removed, crucial skills for roles should appear in each class with their own flavor and a new customization system should be implemented. Also---giving us stat points for customization when they are all just thrown into main stat is another failure of understanding your own game, or the fact that every class gives up the chance to gain interesting traits for garbage like "+10 main stat" traits that could just be tied into your classes natural attribute gains.

3) There is no reason to try
Content comes out that is difficult with ilvl2** gear, but its a thin level of content (4 bosses) and you dont NEED the gear to clear that content unless the game puts in a ridiculous dps check. So you try hard and get that gear, but before any new hard core content comes out a softcore patch comes out that gives you X ways to get *THE SAME GEAR* with months of prep before the next hard core content comes out. So -why- do the hard core content aside from 'the thrill'? WoW does this very well (they do other things horribly) but they have many tiers of difficulty with many bosses per raid, and come out with raids much more rapidly. After heavensward released, WoW had patch 6.2 and released hellfire citadel, which over 10 weeks released bosses on 4 different difficulty and reward tiers out to players---for a total of 13 bosses. All these bosses are relevant---you will do LFR and normal for a while, then normal and heroic while you eventually work up to mythic. There is an actual progression where you need gear to CLIMB the ladder. The catch up mechanics in WoW dont get you to the TOP gear level, they get you high enough to begin the raid ladder and that is all!

But FFXIV cant do that---the difference between 'im ready to start raiding' and 'i cleared all content' is at this point, 10 to 15 i levels, all of which are made up in the next soft core patch.

4) Irrelevant or Bad Content

When was the last time you did bismark ex? That content was obsolete the day it came out.
How about chocobo racing? The thing you need to sit at the golden saucer to try. Go ahead, queue up; how many humans will you race against? I've raced 200+ times and never seen one.
Lords of Vermillion was a giant waste of time, and is clunky.
Diadem seems to focus on SE idea that players like hunts and want more hunt content--so they instanced hunts.

Now let me ask you, if SE had spent their time doing something productive instead of this (either by thinking through what each piece of content means against the whole better to ensure it would not be irrelevant immediately or by making 'better' content) would the game be in this state? Why did bismark have to drop a weapon that you then upgraded out of in 1 week from Ravanah? Who thought that would be a good idea?

5) The Relic Issue

When 2.0 came out, we had the relic quest more or less immediately. It was fresh and dealt with the current, relevant content.
When 3.0 came out, we were told relic needed more time. We were all hopeful it would be cool and new right?
When 3.05 came out, we were told to wait again--needed more time.
When 3.1 came out, we were told to wait again--needed more time.
And now we have 3.15 and have been given a system of atmas, dungeon grinding and the need to access the crafting system which every crafter I know now universally hates. What took *MONTHS* to complete, aside from the art assets? What were the developers doing? Where is the innovation? Why would you think forcing players to now go do content they got tired of MONTHS ago all over again (Alexander Normal) would be a good idea?

6) Raiding is dead
FFXIV Has no idea what to do with its raiding. It's either mind numbingly easy, or its AS3 level difficulty that targets the elite population. There is nothing targeting middle skill players---There is nothing *to do* if you are a pve focused player other than leveling alts, which i feel is all there has been to do for months and months now.

There are more issues obviously--I could go on, but the things I love about FFXIV (graphics, the little nuances and details) cant hide the fact that...the game isn't fun. There is nothing to do. FFXIV has I feel, lost it's own way.

I've been active since the 2.0 beta and my wife since 1.0. Today I think we will both be unsubscribing our accounts. I don't think 3.2 will bring us back--the issues here are just too rooted, too deep. Maybe when 4.0 hits we will check it out again.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

So you propose that existing people basically shut up and leave, for a chance to trick new people to into the game? They are adults or teenagers, they can read the arguments and make their own decision.

That's like me complaining about the quality of food at my own restaraunt. Instead of letting the boss know the cake taste like poop. You'd rather I shut up and leave so new people who don't know any better will still eat it.

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so good, have all the likes!

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I have been playing this game since the start of 1.0. In that time some many things have been promised and still haven't been delivered.

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I don't doubt that some 'promised' changes or features have not happened yet (or at all), but when you say that something is planned for a product that is coming in 2-3 years, a lot changes over the time, and priorities change, as do plans, so it's natural that some things have not happened. I'm not saying that explains or excuses all such missed 'promises' but you have to at least acknowledge reality there.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Stats- They said in 1.0 the stats would be dumbed down in 2.0 but would be more unique as it went on. We still have the same stats.

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I'll give them 50% on this since they simplified the stats, but on the other hand, they are too simple and streamlined and I am not seeing any uniqueness...

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Dungeons- They said they were not making 3 anymore to make 2 more unique. The new ones aren't any different than the others that came before.

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What do you mean by different? Visually the appear very different. I agree about dropping from 3 to 2 dungeons. But I have to say that if they add 3 dungeons every 3 months that's 12 in a year, over 3 years that's 30 additional dungeons besides those added in the original game and expenansion. As a software developer and life long gamer I do actually have some sympathy with SE here. It's actually hard to make every dungeon truly unique, so I can see their reasoning. I'd still like to see more dungeons though, or dungeon like instanced battles in the overworld where we achieve objectives on the way to a boss fight - although that appears to be the model for some of the story quests, I'd enjoy it if they used a similar method for some 'dungeons' as well.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Raids- Never really got to try them, because of the thing I hate most in this game, lockout-statics. I am the odd man out. By the time I could freely do it something better was already out negating me wanting to do the old content. It was not changed so that everyone could be rewarded for the experience like they said they were going to.

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I'm in the same boat, several of my friends are too, as are my wife and son. We're actually planning to run the whole coil at some point when we can agree a good time to start for everyone. That way we all get to play it, without the stress of end-game. However, I don't see the older content as negated by new content because I'm not trying to keep up with progression by doing it, I simply want to experience it and if there is good stuff for glamour, I want to get that too. I think it has been changed. Certainly Echo was added to some of the Coil turns, and there were mechanical nerfs to them as well, along with putting them in duty finder without the loot lockouts and static requirement. It would have been better to make an 'easy' version without the loot perhaps, but given the very strong arguments among players about end-game raids being available and accessible to 'casual' player even that might not be well received.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I can go on.

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I'm sure that you can, and it might even be an interesting exchange in views. But, if you have made your mind up on how you feel and view the game, I doubt our discussion will sway you. I'd just like to say that there are at least two sides to every story - so to speak. Each to their own though.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

So you propose that existing people basically shut up and leave, for a chance to trick new people to into the game? They are adults or teenagers, they can read the arguments and make their own decision.

That's like me complaining about the quality of food at my own restaraunt. Instead of letting the boss know the cake taste like poop. You'd rather I shut up and leave so new people who don't know any better will still eat it.

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As I said;

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Players who are unhappy always have that choice, but talking the game down and being overtly and overly critical of the game and developers is completely unhelpful. Honestly, if players who feel so negatively toward the game, because of burnout or whatever other reason, would take a break, and take their negativity with them, we would all be better off. And I include those players in that 'all'.

It's just not good for the players themselves to constantly be so negative about things, it affects them on a personal level too. It would be healthier for them to recognize that they need a break, and take one. Negative thinking can be like a cancer and spread to others. So folks with that attitude taking a break is helpful both to them, and the players around them.

Please note I am NOT telling people to leave the game. One of my best friends in he game is going to sub for a month every 40-odd days for the next 9-12 months because he knows he's burned out on it. But he will be back, and he will be better for it.

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PS since you want to talk about a restaurant, I'll repost something I posted to another topic;

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it's like that with everything in life. I might see a movie several times, but not consecutively. I might eat a Big-Mac for lunch today, but I'm not going to eat nothing but Big Macs for the next month, I'd get bored long before the month was out.

In everything variety is the spice of life and a balanced diet is important. Apply that principle to the way you play games and I think you will find the games themselves not only last longer, but are far more enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by zosia

so good, have all the likes!

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I've never been convinced that Komso isn't a troll. I've never seen such a high level white knight.

@Kosmo one last thing. Yes negativity can hurt the game sales, but negativity also helps improve quality. Either SE adapts to the complaints or they ride this formula until it runs out of gas.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I've never been convinced that Komso isn't a troll. I've never seen such a high level white knight.

@Kosmo one last thing. Yes negativity can hurt the game sales, but negativity also helps improve quality. Either SE adapts to the complaints or they ride this formula until it runs out of gas.

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So, people who disagree with an overly negative view of things are White Knights and trolls? Perhaps that speaks more of your own bias than of their opinion?

As for your comment about negativity helping improve quality, that's just not true - in my experience. Straight up Negativity is not helpful.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

So, people who disagree with an overly negative view of things are White Knights.

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No, a white knight is someone who protects a bad practice and tells the players to adapt to the companies rather than the companies adapt to their players.

Negativity does help. It can kill but it can also help.

By making all these "negative posts" at the very best, SE will take note that there is a decent number of people who found this as bad content.

By being overwhelmingly positive like you. They will think it's great and will rinse repeat formula all over again.

I think you're a troll not because you disagree with me. Simply because how controversial you try to be against what people are feeling.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

By being overwhelmingly positive like you. They will think it's great and will rinse repeat formula all over again.

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So in effect if you like the game do not post because SE will take that as feedback as well? Is that what you are really saying?

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I think you're a troll not because you disagree with me.

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That's twice.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

Simply because how controversial you try to be against what people are feeling.

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Controversial? ROLFLMAO. Sure, whatever. Post positively and get called a troll and controversial. Not quite sure how that works. How is suggesting that those who are burned out on something should take a break from it 'overly positive'? Again, whatever. If that's your point of view, so be it. I think you're wrong.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I've never been convinced that Komso isn't a troll. I've never seen such a high level white.

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Their White Knight level is over 9000!!

While I understand people are fine with the relic quest especially new players that haven't experienced 2.X for example, Kosmos just comes out with embarrassing drivel alongside a few others I've noticed. Why they feel obligated to is a mystery perhaps they get free sub days or something lol.

On topic though: Currently there seems to be too much wrong with XIV than there is right, while it's been a massive part of my life since Beta it will take something drastic to bring me back like a real expansion, rather than a large patch following the same formula.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

So in effect if you like the game do not post

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No if you like the game you can post. The problem with your positivity is you're trying to control people by telling them to stop talking. When you tell people to take a break instead of talk about what you don't like you are essentially trying to censor their feelings.

I have never told you to not speak, like I've seen you to tell people "quit complaining"

If you want to make a post about why you find the current state of the game fun, I have no problem with that. The reason you are not just being positive just to be positives makes me question you because you only behave this way against negative.

Real positive people have empathy and will hear out others complaints and be like "that sucks I hope they do something for you, I'm still enjoying it though I look forward everyday to log in still"

You on the other hand "why are you expressin your opinions?? Just take a break"

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I think you're a troll not because you disagree with me. Simply because how controversial you try to be against what people are feeling.

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Hmmmmm. telling one person their 'feeling' on the matter is irrelevant, while your 'feeling' on the matter is of utmost importance is pretty much what you just did here.

Are you a troll?

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

Their White Knight level is over 9000!!

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There it is again! That darn "white knight" swear word. It appears as though when anyone has the need to express disdain for a person rather than reply to an argument, they use that term.

These Black Knights express nothing but gloom, disaster and despair. I have no idea what their ultimate goal is. They don't appear to have anything good to say about the game. In fact, they deride anyone who does say something good. Perhaps they work for some other game company and want to sow seeds of darkness so folks will move to something else?

In words of one syllable: Cut it out.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

In words of one syllable: Cut it out.

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Make me, you're no better than people like Kosmos themselves if you come out with this on the Internet, and calling it a swear word lol.

In all honestly though the title is far too grand for some folk here I merely wanted to reference Dragonball :(

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

There it is again! That darn "white knight" swear word. It appears as though when anyone has the need to express disdain for a person rather than reply to an argument, they use that term.

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Didn't you know? "White Knight" just means "someone that disagrees with me."

It's right along up there with other words like "toxic" "elitist" and "troll."

Lack of empathy doesn't make you a "troll" or "white knight." Possibly "narrow-minded." There are other names, but I'll try to keep it civil.

Still, "Oh no! What would visitors think if they didn't see our bright and shining distopia of a game?" There's a knee-slapper right there.

Welcome to the internet. May your stay here be a pleasant one. :)

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Hmmmmm. telling one person their 'feeling' on the matter is irrelevant, while your 'feeling' on the matter is of utmost importance is pretty much what you just did here.

Are you a troll?

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Nice job taking that comment out of context.

Please directly quote where I said their feelings don't matter? I'll be waiting.

Well my server is desert.. My FC has lost a lot of ppl.. Others FC with 20 members/only 3 online all day... It's hard to tell but I think, sadly, this could be the end :( I feel bad about this because this game used to be fun and I made a lot of good friends also all the experiences are priceless for me. Now we must wait to see what's gonna happen :(

Some of the issue is the speed at which players consume content and what type of content they enjoy.

If a casual player who enjoys all the content takes until the next major patch to complete all their goals then they will be extremely happy.

If a hardcore player who only enjoys doing the MSQ finishes it within a day, then....they will be very unhappy, but will move to their next MMO in order to do the same.

There's a couple of extreme situations, with a large portion of people somewhere in between. There does seem to be a large portion who just burn through the MSQ and easy content and call it a day, not to be seen until the next patch. I think that's typical of the average gamer these days which makes some less involved worlds feel pretty desolate soon after a patch release, and has nothing to do with a games overall success.

200 Hours of Content, mini games, puzzles, voice acting. Multiple Endings, Secret Characters, additional New Game ++

-> Speed runs to ending in 45 minutes -> No idea what story was -> Made it to Video Game store with 15 minutes to spare for next game.

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

In all honestly though the title is far too grand for some folk here I merely wanted to reference Dragonball :(

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So, what is a White Knight in Dragonball? Something good? Something bad? An object of derision, or an object of pride?

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Originally Posted by Faytte

snip

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I can tell from your post you played FFXI.. I agree 100 percent with your post though.
I just do not know how I go from loving a game to the point I do not even want to load it up anymore. I bought two PS4's and a laptop just to play this game. SE had a formula that worked for FFXIV but after two and a half years you have to give people something different or people get bored. You would get bored of anything you had to do 100 times in a row especially with no rewards. I think the rewards is the biggest problem. I have been play the game 2.5 years now and someone could catch up in under 3 months. I look at my girlfriend in FFXI and she had the black belt, faith torque etc and that gear was good for 5 years, that is worth the grind. It was epic gear, what gear is epic in this game? I know RPG are grindy but 2.5 years of the same grind with no reward but a piece of equipment that is outdated in weeks. My girlfriend who is not a gamer even sees what is going on, she says it stinks when you bust your but for something and a month later they nerf it and hand it to someone, she was talking about the relic.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

So, what is a White Knight in Dragonball? Something good? Something bad? An object of derision, or an object of pride?

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Originally Posted by DarkDedede

Still, "Oh no! What would visitors think if they didn't see our bright and shining distopia of a game?" There's a knee-slapper right there.

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Meh. I've seen worse distopias. I don't like the term "white knight" for the same reason I don't like the use of the term "liberal" as a pejorative. It twists meanings of words.

I don't know how other folks read forums, but I discount much of what is said if it comes from the same people time-and-again. I really discount it when references to specific posters and words like "white knight" start to show up.

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

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So, I would guess by your response it's "derision". Thought as much.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

I really discount it when references to specific posters and words like "white knight" start to show up.

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Soooo instead of arguing the actual point you're just gonna focus down that you hate the word "white knight". That doesn't help move anything along. It's a word to describe a type of stance.

I have white knighted Capcom on their resident evil decisions. I tried to look at it from capcom's perspective of why they believed action was a better choice than horror.

But when I white knighted I didn't EVER try to tell people to stop complaining. Their complaining got them revelations 2, and resident evil 2 remake. Imagine if I convinced those angry resident evil fans to just leave like Kosmo does? They'd put out Resident evil 7 even more action based because it still sold quite well.

Their complaining got me a scarier resident evil. It works if enough people vocalize their discontent. Get over a description.

I don't think the game will be dying anytime soon. They will however lose veteran players overtime for their lack of innovative content.

I've played since launch and slowly has the game diminished my interest over time. I was looking forward towards the relic quest as an incentive to continue playing but SE totally ruined that for me. Sure I could just not do it, right? So I could go back to my repetitive daily/weekly content or pick up the relic quest and do more repetitive content. I don't think I can go through with it..

Good thing my subscription is running out in a few days.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I think you're a troll not because you disagree with me. Simply because how controversial you try to be against what people are feeling.

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My favourite bit is that even after all of the times that they have argued with the player base over end-game content they still don't have a single class to 60.

He/She should probably spend less time posting here and more time levelling, at least that way their opinion can actually be taken with a hint consideration, as it stand they are arguing about things they have yet to experience.

With games like Black desert online plus Blade & Soul fast approaching idk how long this game will retain my interest if it doesn't start doing something on Par with patch 2.2 soon.