But...I...I don't wanna DPS, I'm a healer...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoodRat

So one could infer, from your reasoning, that it is perfectly fine for dps to stand in avoidable aoes in order to slightly increase dps. I mean, it's the healers' job to heal right?

---

#Drglyfe

/10chars

I just did a run of Tam-Tara with my WHM (Trying to unlock Stone Skin) and I tried to DPS but the Warrior went all "LEEROY JENKINS" on me and made it into a speed run, so all I really had time to do was throw a few non-CS Aero casts on the mobs when I could, and heal the tank. Even ran off and started pulling before I'd cast Protect or eaten.

Not complaining though, this thread has made me avoid healing as much as possible and to be thrown into it like that was pretty cool. I got 2 commendations out of it so yay I guess.

Also is it me or do Warriors health bars drop faster than other tanks. I had a tank in Halitali yesterday and his health bar kept jumping up a couple of hundred on his max health every now and again, and it was great healing them.

EDIT: IPhone autocorrected me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

I just did a run of Tam-Tara with my WHM (Trying to unlock Stone Skin) and I tried to DPS but the Warrior went all "LEEROY JENKINS" on me and made it into a speed run, so all I really had time to do was throw a few non-CS Aero casts on the mobs when I could, and heal the tank. Even ran off and started pulling before I'd cast Protect or eaten.

Not complaining though, this thread has made me avoid healing as much as possible and to be thrown into it like that was pretty cool. I got 2 commendations out of it so yay I guess.

Also is it me or do Warriors health bars drop faster than other tanks. I had a tank in Halitali yesterday and his health bar kept jumping up a couple of hundred on his max health every now and again, and it was great healing them.

EDIT: IPhone autocorrected me

---

Part of being a good healer is understanding when and how to heal and when and how to DPS. Understanding that in this situation the best thing to do is heal to maintain forward momentum already puts you ahead of most healers who can't adapt. Good on you.

Unfortunately, you're going to run into tanks who feel they are "too good for your buffs" and run off. You'll just have to learn to play around these... special... tanks. That or they wipe the group because they think they're hot stuff when they're not and have everyone's ire directed towards them afterwards. *Shrugs* C'est la vie?

In terms of WARs, WARs tend to be more ping pongy with their HP as they usually have a higher HP total and receive a bonus to healing received versus direct mitigation from Shield Oath and Grit for PLD and DRk respectively. Admittedly, at the level you're at none of the tanks have access to their tank stances and you shouldn't be experiencing it that much at that level. Could just be an undergeared WAR tank trying to prove something. Hard to say without too much more info.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

Not complaining though, this thread has made me avoid healing as much as possible and to be thrown into it like that was pretty cool. I got 2 commendations out of it so yay I guess.

Also is it me or do Warriors health bars drop faster than other tanks. I had a tank in Halitali yesterday and his health bar kept jumping up a couple of hundred on his max health every now and again, and it was great healing them.

---

Warriors have 20% more hp than other tanks and none of the mitigation, so the health bar does drop faster by percentage. They also recover 20% more hp, but it's not immediately noticeable if you're just looking at health bars. They also lose that bonus hp when they switch out of Defiance to dps, which is why you tend to see it rise and drop.

As for your particular tank, I am inclined to believe they had some DRG gear on them. When tanks lose a lot of HP very quickly even though they're avoiding telegraphs and using CDs, it's usually because they mistook DRG gear as tank gear. It's a hard lesson for a tank to learn that just because they can wear the armor, it doesn't mean they should.

BTW, congrats on the commendations and for staying with the thread for so long. The DPS healer debate is a real can of worms.

P.S. I actually like that hot pink robe look on a Hellsguard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoodRat

So one could infer, from your reasoning, that it is perfectly fine for dps to stand in avoidable aoes in order to slightly increase dps. I mean, it's the healers' job to heal right?

---

Actually I do sometimes this thing (as brd) at a4s 1-st leg, when it's time to refresh my dots, but I got a red circle under me just when I started casting IJ. It will hit me for 50% of my hp, and I will be recovered by fairy, so why not?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

Also is it me or do Warriors health bars drop faster than other tanks. I had a tank in Halitali yesterday and his health bar kept jumping up a couple of hundred on his max health every now and again, and it was great healing them.

EDIT: IPhone autocorrected me

---

Yeah, as stated above, WARs recieve the extra HP instead of mitigation. This makes that happen. WARs are also the choice of DPS tanks, as a result I tend to find more that wear pure STR, who run off out of tank stance for more damage, pop no cool downs, and expect it to go as awesome as their runs a dps with a good tank. I tend to think of them as Demikas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

I had a horrible run of Haukke Manor earlier this evening where I went OOM and a DPS died (didn't have Hi-Ether on bar) and while I kept everyone else alive I majorly panicked, then at the end of the dungeon the other DPS and Tank used emotes to disapprove before entering the portal immediately. I'm not gonna lie, this is a game, and this is the internet where people can say what they want without repercussion, but it was really really disheartening to see someone give me a questioning look, and a disapproving look, especially as a newbie still learning.

---

Most people don't LoS to cancel Thunder III and Fire III, so they end up eating those hard hitting spells. It can get hairy when the adds come out, since they can cast those spells too.

It also doesn't help if the tank is using DRG or DoW gear, which is vastly inferior to same-level tank-specific armor.

Since you are still new to the game, it is okay for you to just focus on the basics of healing. Anticipate the damage spikes on the tank and party and mentally prepare what heals you are going to use next.

However, once you get more experienced with healing, you may see periods of time where you can safely supplement dps for your group. A great healer is able to identify these potential dps opportunities without putting the party at risk. Also, while a Scholar has certain dps advantages in raid environments, a White Mage can also output a significant amount of dps so that should not be overlooked.

Most importantly you should just have fun playing the game. Some people are just really jaded and have attitude problems. Just have fun and relax and do not let negative people put you in a bad place.

Question!

I was running a dungeon on my SMN and the healer was an SCH but they weren't doing DPS. I read somewhere that DoTs don't stack, is that true?

If yes, ah okay.

If no, -now- I get the whole "DPS" as heals thing, cause I was like, "You're standing around. You could DoT that, and that, press your Bane button."

SCH and SMN DoTs do stack, so it was just laziness.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

Question!

I was running a dungeon on my SMN and the healer was an SCH but they weren't doing DPS. I read somewhere that DoTs don't stack, is that true?

If yes, ah okay.

If no, -now- I get the whole "DPS" as heals thing, cause I was like, "You're standing around. You could DoT that, and that, press your Bane button."

---

i m pretty sure both SMN and SCH can apply DoT without issues

i never force healer to dps

but when i heal, i found it boring just standing there

when i heal, i first observe how my team do, may be after 1st boss. i have confident about my party

i will drop DoT and some attack spell, but i would first do it without cleric stance until i m very sure

i dont play SCH much, not sure how it compare to WHM and AST

yet, i always find there are time allow me to at least drop some DoT when playing WHM and AST, unless the tank pulling all mobs from start to first boss

G

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Misutoraru

i m pretty sure both SMN and SCH can apply DoT without issues

but when i heal, i found it boring just standing there

when i heal, i first observe how my team do, may be after 1st boss. i have confident about my party

i will drop DoT and some attack spell, but i would first do it without cleric stance until i m very sure

i dont play SCH much, not sure how it compare to WHM and AST

yet, i always find there are time allow me to at least drop some DoT when playing WHM and AST, unless the tank pulling all mobs from start to first boss

---

Yeah standing there only healing is boring as hell.

As a SCH main I always DPS regardless of my tank, throw aldo on them before they pull and together with Selene/Eos you'll have plenty of time to switch to Clerics Stance, cast your dots and bane them into the pack at the very least and switch back to heal the damage before using Ruin/Broil until the dots are close to wearing off. Then just repeat :p

Don't forget you have Rouse to give your fairy a heal boost on larger packs as well as Eye for an eye too. There's plenty of ways to mitigate damage as a SCH to allow you to DPS easily

Stance dancing is clunky and I'd rather spend my time frantically healing groups instead of applying DoTs and spamming Stone 3 like some ghetto mage.

But that's not the hand we're dealt.

Well if you don't want to DPS it's okay, you're a healer after all but it may be required in really extreme DPS checks in endgame raids. To be honest, you'll see that even keeping everyone topped and shielded leaves you plenty of free time after you reach max level and have a good gear.. you'll find yourself wanting to DPS to not get bored LOL.

That said, SCH have fairies healing machine and nice DoTs and all so it's pretty intuitive that you can DPS, WHM and AST are less but they give you so many powerful offensive skill as a WHM and you can even keep 3 HoTs running at the same time healing people more than what they need so yeah.. what to do what to do? You can jump around or you can DPS!

AST is the way to go if you don't want to DPS, you can DPS with that too but other than your healing kit being a mix of the other two, leading to not be a master of neither, you have an internal party buff mechanic that fill your time, still you have a powerful DoT and a cool offensive AoE you may want to use in the right timing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greven

Well if you don't want to DPS it's okay, you're a healer after all...

---

I can't even bring myself to soften the blow with lead-in statements like this anymore. I see the words and recognize the good intention, but what I actually read is "Well if you don't want to try very hard it's okay, you're a healer after all."

Let's just be perfectly honest and tell people they are purposefully being bad if they have the ability to DPS and choose not to. I don't believe in any kind of healer's prerogative to do the bare minimum and have that be okay.

People who are still learning the game (like the OP) or a particular encounter? They get a pass. No one is expected to be born knowing how to play the game. Is their party so terrible that it requires constant babysitting? Then there understandably might be less time to DPS. Healers playing under normal or better conditions with a normal or better party? No excuse to slack.

But...I... I don't want to dodge. I'm a DPS. [One-shots exempt.]

Seriously though, you should be using whatever resources you have, be it excess mana, free time, or comparatively high-execute-potency attacks. To not do so is no different than if a tank decided not to pop CDs or a dps decided to take a break mid-fight. You may see it as "out of role," but in the end, it's all just party output. Tanks both mitigate (resulting in less healing necessary) and dps, and DPS, by killing enemies, essentially have no choice but to cause overall mitigation/reduce total healing needs. You heal damage, absorb damage, deal damage. It's really... all... damage. Figuring out the best way to optomize output vs. resource is what makes you able to clear things faster, which, like it or not, is the only real measure of success available. Their are no pure roles, even the healer, but instead only classes with, say, reliable healing spells and whose priorities fit that fact. And that's where a lot of the fun comes in. Know your party CDs, and know when you or your tank can go ham. It's a fun trade of allowance of power, that makes you feel not only more than just a heal bot, but more than a single player/character.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynfael

Snip

---

If you took the time to read, and understand the entire post you'd have it clear I promote healers DPS, and you'd probably get that I DPS as well when I'm the healer.

This thread is from a new player obviously worried about what is the real role of an healer in this game, it's just normal to go kind with it as you don't know the person situation. I understand that you may be burned out about this same topic being discussed over and over bit throwing your frustration around will do nothing good. This game is not yours to make people play and do as you want. What if someone doesn't want to do their best? Well, your "perfectly honest" isn't honest at all, there are plenty of bad players and they have the same right over the this game as you do.

So calm down your raging synapses and instead of scaring away new players try their point of view.

all i can say is dont bother using damage spells WITHOUT cleric stance on. ur just wasting gcds and basically throwing pebbles at the mobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greven

If you took the time to read, and understand the entire post you'd have it clear I promote healers DPS, and you'd probably get that I DPS as well when I'm the healer.

This thread is from a new player obviously worried about what is the real role of an healer in this game, it's just normal to go kind with it as you don't know the person situation. I understand that you may be burned out about this same topic being discussed over and over bit throwing your frustration around will do nothing good. This game is not yours to make people play and do as you want. What if someone doesn't want to do their best? Well, your "perfectly honest" isn't honest at all, there are plenty of bad players and they have the same right over the this game as you do.

So calm down your raging synapses and instead of scaring away new players try their point of view.

---

If you took the time to read and assumed less, you'd have seen that I acknowledged both the intention of your post and the plight of the new and/or overwhelmed player in that same post that you are now calling out.

As for bad players, of course they have the right to play the game...just as the players upon whom they inflict themselves have the right to call it out. This players' rights spiel goes both ways.

^ Exactly.

I really don't mind new players or players unfamiliar with an encounter not DPSing. I also don't mind it when the tank is getting demolished for whatever reason and you're forced to heal spam.

However, I don't understand why people refuse to DPS. The damage potency on healer spells in this game is gigantic. Why would you not take advantage of this? Seriously, look at how much damage a healer can pump out even for a short amount of time. On large packs of enemies in ilvl ~170 gear, my SCH is basically a third DPS that can speed up runs by 5-10 minutes depending, and that requires three Cleric Stance casts (four if you can afford to Shadow Flare). The amount of damage healers can do should be incentive enough to want to DPS.

To OP. Unless you do not mind slow runs, or wiping to soft enrages, you should definitevely dps (to the extent of your abilities of course). By not dpsing you are just make it harder for yourself, which is kinda funny, but in this game true.

I'll just share this really quick...

http://puu.sh/kHEwK/1cdf93d67b.png

A DPSing healer can be worth as much as a extra DPS slot in parties like these. And, sadly, I've seen DF DPS do a lot worse than in the picture there.

15 pages of repeating the same thing over and over? ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynfael

If you took the time to read and assumed less, you'd have seen that I acknowledged both the intention of your post and the plight of the new and/or overwhelmed player in that same post that you are now calling out.

As for bad players, of course they have the right to play the game...just as the players upon whom they inflict themselves have the right to call it out. This players' rights spiel goes both ways.

---

I agree, sorry if I sounded harsh.

At this point I guess OP has his ideas in place anyway.

@Risvertasashi

Quote:

---

A DPSing healer can be worth as much as a extra DPS slot in parties like these. And, sadly, I've seen DF DPS do a lot worse than in the picture there.

---

If everyone could, at least, do this, I would be happy.

And your dps is nice, it's almost the same as me when I play whm.

In a1s-a2s-dungeon, you don't really need to dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I'll just share this really quick...

---

'tis pretty impressive, alright!

http://i.imgur.com/29KqlRG.png

Pretty old too. I've gotten an Antiquated Seraph Cane since then! :p

I'm jealous at how much less damage your group took, though...

My DPS suffers enough when I'm running SMN because I usually end up having to help heal, so I'm worried about actually playing my SCH which I'm avoiding now because I'm intimidated completely by the whole healing thing here. I'm thinking I'll just stay SMN and not be a healer, just cause right now doing everything is a scary concept. I don't actually enjoy DPS, but oh well, it's either that or stop playing and I don't really wanna stop playing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

My DPS suffers enough when I'm running SMN because I usually end up having to help heal, so I'm worried about actually playing my SCH which I'm avoiding now because I'm intimidated completely by the whole healing thing here. I'm thinking I'll just stay SMN and not be a healer, just cause right now doing everything is a scary concept. I don't actually enjoy DPS, but oh well, it's either that or stop playing and I don't really wanna stop playing.

---

Sounds like you have a typical case of Healer OCD*. Just keep in mind that "not healing" is also part of healing. There are a total of 3 healing classes. If Scholar "scares" you, give Astrologian or White Mage a whirl. If anything, don't level as a summoner to 60 and switch back to Scholar afterwards. You'll miss out on the learning curve if you do.

* When a HP bar falls below 99.9% the player feels extremely uncomfortable and demands it to be topped off, even if 99% of the healing spell is ineffective.

If you're healing as Summoner to the point your dps is suffering, something is very wrong! Either the run is a total disaster, or you're not trusting the healer to do their job. It is normal and perfectly fine for a tank's health to go to 50% before a healer starts healing. If you're throwing your physicks on there too, you're backseat healing the actual healing role and wasting mp you could be using for dps.

If you want to be a pure healer I really recommend switching to WHM until you unlock Astrologian in Heavensward. AST is the job least expected to dps, imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

My DPS suffers enough when I'm running SMN because I usually end up having to help heal, so I'm worried about actually playing my SCH which I'm avoiding now because I'm intimidated completely by the whole healing thing here. I'm thinking I'll just stay SMN and not be a healer, just cause right now doing everything is a scary concept. I don't actually enjoy DPS, but oh well, it's either that or stop playing and I don't really wanna stop playing.

---

Well, Healing as SCH during the levelling part is like the easiest thing as the fairies can do most of the job by theirselves XD healers even have faster queues!

As a stance-dancing scholar, I get slightly annoyed when my tank pops HG at 30% HP on trash. It would drive me nuts to have some summoner struggling to top people off constantly when I'm pouring out DPS. If I was worried about a pull I wouldn't have swiftcasted shadowflare ffs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

My DPS suffers enough when I'm running SMN because I usually end up having to help heal, so I'm worried about actually playing my SCH which I'm avoiding now because I'm intimidated completely by the whole healing thing here. I'm thinking I'll just stay SMN and not be a healer, just cause right now doing everything is a scary concept. I don't actually enjoy DPS, but oh well, it's either that or stop playing and I don't really wanna stop playing.

---

I had a thaumaturge like you once in Sastasha, he wouldn't stop healing the tank with his 50hp cure because I would let the tank drop to 15-20% hp before instantly healing him with swiftcast+cure. I was laughing so hard, it was hilarious.
You should definitely start healing to see how easy it is and have a little more confidence in your healers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

My DPS suffers enough when I'm running SMN because I usually end up having to help heal, so I'm worried about actually playing my SCH which I'm avoiding now because I'm intimidated completely by the whole healing thing here. I'm thinking I'll just stay SMN and not be a healer, just cause right now doing everything is a scary concept. I don't actually enjoy DPS, but oh well, it's either that or stop playing and I don't really wanna stop playing.

---

Don't do this. Please don't do this. Trust the healer to do their job. If they've proven to be incompetent, vote kick is a thing. If you queued as SMN, you need to be DPS'ing. Having a SMN playing at being a healer just bogs things down even more.

In any case, you aren't required to DPS as a healer but it certainly does give you a lot more to do. The way this game's healing is set up, there will inevitably be times when you are either spamming cure on a tank that's at 99% hp to keep them topped off or you will simply be standing around for short periods of time because nobody needs heals. Overhealing is an awful way to go about things because it generates massive amounts of aggro, and if you stand around while nobody needs healing some people will assume you're watching Netflix or something. As a healer, I routinely let the tank drop to 30-40% while I DPS but I keep a close eye on how fast they are losing hp. The tank doesn't need to be at 90%+ hps all the time; as long as they don't die, it's all good. :3

It's understandable that you'd be hesitant with DPS initially. I think most of us were. Just focus on your job (healing) for the time being and as you get more comfortable with your class/role, you'll find that DPS comes naturally. Scholar is a wonderfully set up class!

"As a healer you SHOULD be DPSing otherwise you're lazy, but if you're a DPS trust your heals and don't help them out."

Kind of a double standard there guys, don't you think? If I don't DPS as a healer I'm lazy, but if I help heal when I'm not a healer, that's bad. I don't really get that, but okay, I guess I'll just find my own little niche, whatever and wherever that is. Thanks for all the input guys, but I really think I should find somewhere else to play. Enjoy your gaming guys, I had a kinda fun month here. :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

"As a healer you SHOULD be DPSing otherwise you're lazy, but if you're a DPS trust your heals and don't help them out."

Kind of a double standard there guys, don't you think? If I don't DPS as a healer I'm lazy, but if I help heal when I'm not a healer, that's bad. I don't really get that, but okay, I guess I'll just find my own little niche, whatever and wherever that is. Thanks for all the input guys, but I really think I should find somewhere else to play. Enjoy your gaming guys, I had a kinda fun month here. :-)

---

http://www.tech-gaming.com/wp-conten...mage/63855.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

"As a healer you SHOULD be DPSing otherwise you're lazy, but if you're a DPS trust your heals and don't help them out."

Kind of a double standard there guys, don't you think? If I don't DPS as a healer I'm lazy, but if I help heal when I'm not a healer, that's bad. I don't really get that, but okay, I guess I'll just find my own little niche, whatever and wherever that is. Thanks for all the input guys, but I really think I should find somewhere else to play. Enjoy your gaming guys, I had a kinda fun month here. :-)

---

Good luck with whatever you do.

To address your point briefly, the double standard has justification: unnecessary healing is useless at best, detrimental at worst. However, there is rarely such a thing as unnecessary damage.

Further, GCDs spent on DPS casting their extremely weak heals = GCDs not spent doing damage. Healers DPS far, far better than any DPS can heal.

I only have to heal on BLM if the healer drops, and I'm confident I can heal the tank through it. This VERY RARE and requires certain things to fall into place in my favor, because physick is horrendously weak...(450ish at lvl60, when true healer's heal spells are racking upwards in the 3,000s..)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Twilite

I only have to heal on BLM if the healer drops, and I'm confident I can heal the tank through it. This VERY RARE and requires certain things to fall into place in my favor, because physick is horrendously weak...(450ish at lvl60, when true healer's heal spells are racking upwards in the 3,000s..)

---

I won't lie...this is the only reason I even bother to have Physick on my BLM's bar. Every once in a blue moon a situation like this can pop up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

Kind of a double standard there guys, don't you think? If I don't DPS as a healer I'm lazy, but if I help heal when I'm not a healer, that's bad. I don't really get that, but okay, I guess I'll just find my own little niche, whatever and wherever that is. Thanks for all the input guys, but I really think I should find somewhere else to play. Enjoy your gaming guys, I had a kinda fun month here. :-)

---

One reason is stats. When you pop on your cleric stance, if you had reasonable healer stats, you now have reasonable caster stats. Also, healer role naturally has downtime, nothing to heal -> free time. So healer can damage mana/time efficiently with proper stats.

Damage trying to heal however. First of your healer stats are scrub so the heals you can toss out are pitiable comparing to the time and mana they take to cast. Also damage role doesn't have downtime. If there are mobs to kill, kill the mobs.

If your tank keeps dying because lack of heals from your healer (or healer dying), -then- you might consider adding into the heals (or raising the healer. SMN are good for that) but if the healer is up and fine you just hamper everyone by not making sure the stuff dies quickly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

"As a healer you SHOULD be DPSing otherwise you're lazy, but if you're a DPS trust your heals and don't help them out."

Kind of a double standard there guys, don't you think? If I don't DPS as a healer I'm lazy, but if I help heal when I'm not a healer, that's bad. I don't really get that, but okay, I guess I'll just find my own little niche, whatever and wherever that is. Thanks for all the input guys, but I really think I should find somewhere else to play. Enjoy your gaming guys, I had a kinda fun month here. :-)

---

It actually follows the exact same logic. You should be doing in each GCD whatever provides the most output for the group. However, dps healing is so weak compared to healer dps that dps helping out really isn't a viable option past SMNs at level 40 (where we can actually be considered the preferred healer for Stone Vigil, because we're only losing out on Ruin [80p] filler casts to keep the tank alive with Physic [400p]. A SCH retains Ruin time where he could be using a move over 4x the strength because he carries a perma-heal pet who could otherwise be dpsing at over 100p/s on Ifrit as compared to Eos/Selene's 100p/s healing and raising your combined potency/s average significantly).

If you had equal still had about as much Mind as you do Intelligence, then as a SMN it wouldn't be a bad idea at all to take up direct heals, which you could do about as well (just lack the traits), while the SCH puts out his DoTs. Heck, SCH filler dps is better than SMN's at 54. But since, due to the lack of healing primary stat, you're only going to produce from about a seventh of the healing per potency that a real healer was, you'd sadly contribute about as much spamming Ruin or Blizzard II... It will likely seem restrictive and counter-intuitive, but that's just how it is right now. Healers have Cleric Stance, which gives them 10% bonus damage atop (SCH DoTs stronger than SMN), but dps lack Cleric Stance (where they'd be automatically debuffed by 20% in healing anyways) entirely.

I have had to save lives sometimes as my BLM in dungeon runs, especially while leveling. But you can bet I was questioning the healer's attention span afterwards in party chat.