Hair contest: petitioning

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Originally Posted by Gemma

You guys think they'll give us a replacement hair to vote on since female #12 is gone now?
Twelve I hope so, not liking the ones winning >_<

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Probably not i guess

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Originally Posted by Gemma

You guys think they'll give us a replacement hair to vote on since female #12 is gone now?
Twelve I hope so, not liking the ones winning >_<

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Yes you can vote again. Per SE's own notes, you can vote multiple times. However, only your LAST vote, gets counted.

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...7a8ecee02a43ce

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* “Likes!” will only be counted for the last entry you vote on.

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Edit again!:

Sorry, think I misread what you meant.

Gilraen: they could have had everyone post their example, like the do with the screen shot contests. That way, everyone knew what was up for debate and would have had options. Then, the like voting system could work.

***Would anyone like me to put their name in the first post, petition style? Maybe a visual count of who is in agreement with this concept would attract attention?

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Originally Posted by DoctorSecksy

Gilraen: they could have had everyone post their example, like the do with the screen shot contests. That way, everyone knew what was up for debate and would have had options. Then, the like voting system could work.

***Would anyone like me to put their name in the first post, petition style? Maybe a visual count of who is in agreement with this concept would attract attention?

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Given the contest's international nature this wouldn't have really worked. Japanese entries would have only had Japanese player votes, NA voting for NA, etc. because who here really visits the forums of the other languages? Or would even be able to read the thread titles to know it's an entry? Not saying that there aren't NA players able to read Japanese, just that it's not the norm. Most NA players learn local or European languages, not Asian ones, if they are learning another language at all. This, again, given the nature of the contest was the best way to handle it.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Given the contest's international nature this wouldn't have really worked. Japanese entries would have only had Japanese player votes, NA voting for NA, etc. because who here really visits the forums of the other languages? Or would even be able to read the thread titles to know it's an entry? Not saying that there aren't NA players able to read Japanese, just that it's not the norm. Most NA players learn local or European languages, not Asian ones, if they are learning another language at all. This, again, given the nature of the contest was the best way to handle it.

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No.

JP entries to JP forum.

NA entries to NA forum.

EU entries to EU forum.

To each his own.

Then after the selection of winners by user voting ( Lets say a 10 runner up selection for each forum).

Then the Dev team would select one from each of those to be implemented.( 3 winners /1 from each region)

Thats how it should have been made.

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Originally Posted by Yunona

Yhisa already pointed out they are actually off the web and just editted and they are pretty obvious one already got removed for it.

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I wasn't talking about the photoshopped entry; I was talking about the ones that are the artist's own artwork, but is drawing clear inspiration from other hairstyles. (Quistis and FF Warrior, for example). =)

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Originally Posted by Tragoedia

Im sure everyone in the gaming comunity would have liked to participate. ive seen here a collection of hairstyles on tumblr from someone who couldnt participate in the contest. Im sure one of them would have make it .

Trying to justify segregation by lack of knowledge is not cool sir.

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I must have missed the part where I was 'justifying' this; I was simply answering the question as asked. I don't think anyone would disagree that it sucks that some countries have laws which make their citizens unable to participate in international competitions with everyone else, and it also sucks that countries which don't have such laws get pulled into the same problem just because the situation is too complicated and dangerous for companies to want to risk it. We're all paying to play this game and it's obviously unfair that circumstances beyond our control affect what we have access to.

The same issue comes up time and time again; I remember a huge amount of complaining on the Blizzard EU forums over something similar and they definitely had enough money to do the research. There are countries which will only allow prize draws when a local lawyer is physically present for the selection of the winners, countries which consider this kind of thing to be illegal gambling, and countries which require wording present in the rules which would have the side effect of preventing customers in critical markets like the US and Japan from participating. It would be wonderful if every country agreed to suspend their individual laws for a hairstyle competition so we could have a truly diverse selection of entries, but I don't think Square-Enix has the political power to arrange that for us :(

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Originally Posted by Tragoedia

Trying to justify segregation by lack of knowledge is not cool sir.

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I'm sensing a slight amount of hypocrisy here...

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Originally Posted by Tragoedia

No.

JP entries to JP forum.

NA entries to NA forum.

EU entries to EU forum.

To each his own.

Then after the selection of winners by user voting ( Lets say a 10 runner up selection for each forum).

Then the Dev team would select one from each of those to be implemented.( 3 winners /1 from each region)

Thats how it should have been made.

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Why tell one person they're pushing segregation to then push segregation yourself? Judging every entry together in a single venue is the opposite of segregating entries and I'd rather have that than what you proposed.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

I must have missed the part where I was 'justifying' this; I was simply answering the question as asked. I don't think anyone would disagree that it sucks that some countries have laws which make their citizens unable to participate in international competitions with everyone else, and it also sucks that countries which don't have such laws get pulled into the same problem just because the situation is too complicated and dangerous for companies to want to risk it. We're all paying to play this game and it's obviously unfair that circumstances beyond our control affect what we have access to.

:(

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i guess you miss the point here.

SE has made contests before this one that included countries that could not participate in this.

Maybe if the contest would have followed the same rule pattern, those enforce measures wouldnt have to be aplied.

Its a virtual Prize, with no monetary value.

Not a Million Dollar prize.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I'm sensing a slight amount of hypocrisy here...
Why tell one person they're pushing segregation to then push segregation yourself? Judging every entry together in a single venue is the opposite of segregating entries and I'd rather have that than what you proposed.

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No. Excluding people for being of another country is one thing.

Leting people decide is another.

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Originally Posted by DoctorSecksy

Gilraen: they could have had everyone post their example, like the do with the screen shot contests. That way, everyone knew what was up for debate and would have had options. Then, the like voting system could work.

***Would anyone like me to put their name in the first post, petition style? Maybe a visual count of who is in agreement with this concept would attract attention?

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I tried to warn you they are here "ITS PERFECTTT!!!! AAAAH *THE HELLISH SCREAMS ATTACK AS INNOCENT MOOGLES CRY*"

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Originally Posted by Tragoedia

Its a virtual Prize, with no monetary value.

Not a Million Dollar prize.

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Unfortunately, the fact money isn't involved doesn't mean anything as far as the legal side of things goes. A lot of countries' laws are behind the times when it comes to digital goods/services and treat them just like other kinds of goods/services.

I'm from Brazil and I've been barred from entering every contest in pretty much every game I've played to date. It blows and I really wish I could enter, but what can you do? It's unreasonable to expect them to adapt to every country's laws just for the sake of a contest. Instead they take the sensible approach and allow only countries with laws they are sure they can comply with.

The only sensible alternative is to not have contests at all, and that just blows for everyone.

Edit: I should point out I've been angry before at being excluded, too, but I've since learned a bit more about the legal side of things and... yeah, it's far more complicated than it may sound at first.

Next time they should just make any submissions unviewable by the public until the voting starts. This thread is dumb.

Please stop using the argument "I paid for the game." They could have just added hair style they designed. Instead, they try to get the community involved but the response they got was "mine wasn't chosen so this contest is unfair."

Please people, be grateful that SE is even trying to hold contest like this one and stop complaining.

No one is complaining their submission didn't make it into the finalists. I submitted and I am not even mad about that. What I am honestly upset about is the lack of variety in the finalists chosen. Not only that, some of them are similar to what we have now so it doesn't accurately represents what the community as a whole wanted to see more in hairstyles. We are narrowed down to these choices which are even similar to each other and we have no variety to choose from at all. No one is bashing on the artistic skill, we are just concerned that the point of this contest was null if we are just going to have similar hairstyles than the ones we already have. Another thing people are concerned about is that votes might be biased due to the art skill making the whole entry look better overall but in 3D it might not have the same impact. I can already see the top 3 voted in 3D and ingame in my mind (I'm a 2d/3d artist) they are not going to look as appealing as they look on paper. The contest should have focused on the hairstyles themselves by forcing the templates in so that people vote for the hairstyle not the overall entry.

I did a research on the forums and I counted the type of hairstyles we have in game specifically so I would design something that we don't have yet instead of submitting something similar to what we already have so everyone with different tastes have more room to choose from.

Another concern is, if they are going to choose obvious hairstyles from their own games, might as well just implement them already instead of wasting a contest spot where an original or just different hairstyle actually designed by a player could use. Easier to make a poll with "What hairstyle from previous FF games would you like implemented" than wasting a spot for someone who actually designed their own, which i thought was the purpose of this contest, to design something yourself. Inspiration is fine, but blant out copy? Should've at least made some notable modifications, like a variation, heh. No self input was put into those kind of entries.

I honestly saw more variety in the thread for non finalists than in the finalists themselves and I say this with all honesty and respectfully. I also didn't see any problem in translating them to 3D.

I am really glad there are contests like this and I welcome them with open arms, really. I just wish they be handled differently so that stuff like this doesn't happen you know?

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Originally Posted by DawnSolaria

Please stop using the argument "I paid for the game." They could have just added hair style they designed. Instead, they try to get the community involved but the response they got was "mine wasn't chosen so this contest is unfair."

Please people, be grateful that SE is even trying to hold contest like this one and stop complaining.

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Did you actually even read the responses about why people were not thrilled by the contest (many of whom didn't even enter btw)? It literally has nothing, I repeat, nothing to do with "mine wasn't chosen". Just to give you a quick run-down it had to to with unenforced contest rules, cheating, lack of variation in selections, etc.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

Say its not a complain, but still a really long rant?

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The hair style i voted for is very different than the one that was in game, and i personally cannot wait for the top voted to get implemented. Dev have their reason to pick what they did, that could be difficulty in implementation, clipping issue with existing armor, etc. What we as players should do is to just appreciate the contest and effort, or you can be sure to never see such contest again.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Did you actually even read the responses about why people were not thrilled by the contest (many of whom didn't even enter btw)? It literally has nothing, I repeat, nothing to do with "mine wasn't chosen". Just to give you a quick run-down it had to to with unenforced contest rules, cheating, lack of variation in selections, etc.

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And i do not agree with your opinion that the submission chosen lacks in variety. Stop start petition for the "community" as I am a part of it and I want no part in this petition. Stop making all of us look like bunch of ungrateful entitled children.

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Originally Posted by DawnSolaria

The hair style i voted for is very different than the one that was in game, and i personally cannot wait for the top voted to get implemented. Dev have their reason to pick what they did, that could be difficulty in implementation, clipping issue with existing armor, etc. What we as players should do is to just appreciate the contest and effort, or you can be sure to never see such contest again.

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It's obvious all you see is whining from people because you are refusing to actually read people's posts. If you actually read the posts, maybe you'd understand what people's concerns are about. People are posting in a respectfully manner yet you go out and bash on us in a non respectful way like you quoting me the way you did. It is criticism to make these contests better, we don't want them to stop being held, we want more of this, just better done. Ever heard of criticism? I don't see the OP or any of the posters agreeing saying that the entries are shitty or just whining like a baby. They are being done constructively. Maybe you should do the same thing.

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Originally Posted by DawnSolaria

And i do not agree with your opinion that the submission chosen lacks in variety. Stop start petition for the "community" as I am a part of it and I want no part in this petition. Stop making all of us look like bunch of ungrateful entitled children.

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Nowhere does it say in the thread that it's a petition by everyone in the community. Those who wanted a voice regarding if they were pleased/displeased are within their rights to post (in a constructive manner) regarding their thoughts/opinions about how the contest is being handled etc.

Lmao not gonna lie y the hell r ppl caring so much about hairstyles. Who cares who wins in the contest whatever. You all get new hairstyles so just stop talking plz so u make the ppl on the forums look less stupid.
Its vanity stuff tht ppl cycle thru.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

It's obvious all you see is whining from people because you are refusing to actually read people's posts. If you actually read the posts, maybe you'd understand what people's concerns are about. People are posting in a respectfully manner yet you go out and bash on us in a non respectful way like you quoting me the way you did. It is criticism to make these contests better, we don't want them to stop being held, we want more of this, just better done. Ever heard of criticism? I don't see the OP or any of the posters agreeing saying that the entries are shitty or just whining like a baby. They are being done constructively. Maybe you should do the same thing.

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This ! Just this !

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

It's obvious all you see is whining from people because you are refusing to actually read people's posts. If you actually read the posts, maybe you'd understand what people's concerns are about. People are posting in a respectfully manner yet you go out and bash on us in a non respectful way like you quoting me the way you did. It is criticism to make these contests better, we don't want them to stop being held, we want more of this, just better done. Ever heard of criticism? I don't see the OP or any of the posters agreeing saying that the entries are shitty or just whining like a baby. They are being done constructively. Maybe you should do the same thing.

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Better done? How so? Disclosing more information? I assure you they if they did, General forum will be filled with why SE sucks at their reasons for choosing certain hairstyle. I admitted i did not read past first 2 pages, because it already gave me enough headache.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

I honestly saw more variety in the thread for non finalists than in the finalists themselves and I say this with all honesty and respectfully.

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So much this.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Nowhere does it say in the thread that it's a petition by everyone in the community. Those who wanted a voice regarding if they were pleased/displeased are within their rights to post (in a constructive manner) regarding their thoughts/opinions about how the contest is being handled etc.

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Originally Posted by DoctorSecksy

This would be a petition stating the general upset at the lack of representation of what we, as a community, wanted in style choices. I don't bring this up lightly, as there are probably those people out there who feel the choices displayed suit them.

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I want no part in this, nor was I generally upset.

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Originally Posted by DawnSolaria

I want no part in this

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Then kindly leave the thread. :)

Updated the opening post for clarification.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Then kindly leave the thread. :)

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I would if OP would stop being all inclusive when it comes to petition. Be specific on who is starting the petition and dont lump people who do not agree with you together.

Edit: as op have edit her post, I apologize for being hotheaded and rude. I am just rather tired of seeing people starting petition for everyone. Keep up the constructive criticism(no sarcasm intended)

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Then kindly leave the thread. :)

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this thread, while being a place to speak out for whatever discontentment you all are experiencing is also a place for people to vocalize they disagree with you. would the devs know you were displeased had ppl kept quiet? no. but if the other side keeps quiet it would be assumed the vocal minority on the forums generally agrees with whats said here. its a place for everyone and your sign of hostility only makes you appear scared and threatened from the objective opinions

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Originally Posted by DawnSolaria

I would if OP would stop being all inclusive when it comes to petition. Be specific on who is starting the petition and dont lump people who do not agree with you together.

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I'm pretty sure this line (on the original post):

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Originally Posted by DoctorSecksy

I'm looking for interested parties to help file a formal petition of the hair contest.

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and this edit (on the original post):

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Originally Posted by DoctorSecksy

***Added for clarification***
It was never my intention to personally include you (the reader) into my own opinions or my metaphorical box. I know that I may be part of the minority who are upset. Hell, I may be the *only* one upset, but after reading so many other concerned thoughts and feelings from others, I only wished to put feelers out there, seeking out likeminded individuals who want to join me in my box. I am sorry if I have offended you or lead you to believe I was speaking for you personally. I only speak for myself and those I have the permission to do so with. I also apologize if my language was misleading. I'll take it into consideration when responding.
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Is pretty indicative of the OP never intending to speak on behalf of everyone.

Those of us who are upset over the lack of variety in the selected winners are by no means discounting their legitimacy nor are we arguing because our favorite hairstyle did not make the cut. It just seemed the wording of this contest was unclear. If SE was looking for hairstyles that were easy to rig or variations based on what we already have in game, or homages to past FF characters, then well... why label the contest as something clearly creative? The rules stated so long as it fit in the template guidelines, there was no issue. To me, that says they were willing to rig and model anything. And now the lack of creativity has already cost us one finalist slot (with one entry being removed for blatant plagiarism).

There ARE some awesome designs in the finals, but there's also a ton that were in that live letter that are now not even part of the voting, or the ton of awesome ones from the thread where losing entries were posted. But there ARE also repetitive themes within the top 25 for each category that leaves much to be desired. The females are full of pigtails, ponytails, and bob cuts (many of which we have already in the game). And the males are lacking anything that differs from the usual short, spiked or messy shag we already have in game, again.

Also not saying we don't appreciate the opportunity being given. In all my MMO experience, no developer has offered a chance for something community-created to be implemented in a game before. I think that's awesome. But I really don't think variety hurts either, and it couldn't hurt to add a bit more to the final selection in hopes of something unique at least having the chance. Wishful thinking, perhaps, at this point.

DawnSolaria: I have included my apology for my generalized language on the first post so that it is easily accessible without having to tl;dr.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

this thread, while being a place to speak out for whatever discontentment you all are experiencing is also a place for people to vocalize they disagree with you. would the devs know you were displeased had ppl kept quiet? no. but if the other side keeps quiet it would be assumed the vocal minority on the forums generally agrees with whats said here. its a place for everyone and your sign of hostility only makes you appear scared and threatened from the objective opinions

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Sign of hostility? I wasn't being hostile in the least. In fact, I specifically stated (prior to you quoting me) that "Those who wanted a voice regarding if they were pleased/displeased are within their rights to post (in a constructive manner) regarding their thoughts/opinions about how the contest is being handled etc."

Where's the petition for voting that the dev do something better with their time than adding hairs styles?

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

this thread, while being a place to speak out for whatever discontentment you all are experiencing is also a place for people to vocalize they disagree with you. would the devs know you were displeased had ppl kept quiet? no. but if the other side keeps quiet it would be assumed the vocal minority on the forums generally agrees with whats said here. its a place for everyone and your sign of hostility only makes you appear scared and threatened from the objective opinions

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I agree that this thread is for everyone to speak up about their thoughts. I welcome all voices so long as things are kept civil. I understand that when talking about personal feelings, things can get heated, and people say things with harsher undertones as a means of preservation. These things happen and I do not begrudge anyone of this because I'm not perfect. At least recognize that this happens and try to promote a positive debate. C:

Edit: seems I have hit my daily post limit (wth is that even). But to follow up with some comments posted on the next page:

I understand that we all communicate differently, and I sympathize with anyone who had felt slighted in my thread, regardless of their stance. It is our job as readers and contributers to direct the thread in a productive manner. Please understand that we can't force or regulate how people express themselves and to dwell on "he said she said" will only exacerbate the negativity. Let us stay on topic!

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Originally Posted by DoctorSecksy

Updated the opening post for clarification.

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yay you used me as your tag!

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Originally Posted by DoctorSecksy

I welcome all voices so long as things are kept civil.

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and someone telling another to get out of the thread is not civil. while i disagree with you OP (and i'll admit i havent been following this contest but i do love some of the finalists) i feel you have the right to be vocal though i disagree with this uprising. but to the individual i quoted i believe their approach is wrong and ill mannered. instead of barking and showing teeth because they feel backed into a corner a more civil approach would be to discuss their opinions, and accept their opinions may not be the shared opinions of others participating in the forums

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

and someone telling another to get out of the thread is not civil. while i disagree with you OP (and i'll admit i havent been following this contest but i do love some of the finalists) i feel you have the right to be vocal though i disagree with this uprising. but to the individual i quoted i believe their approach is wrong and ill mannered. instead of barking and showing teeth because they feel backed into a corner a more civil approach would be to discuss their opinions, and accept their opinions may not be the shared opinions of others participating in the forums

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Barking and showing teeth? Backed into a corner? What are you even talking about? Did you even read all the posts prior to the one of mine that you quoted and keep referring to? Here's some context (since you're quoting me specifically):

DawnSolaria came into the thread in an uncivil manner stating that the discussion was about a "mine wasn't chosen" mentality, implied that the discussion made us ungrateful and entitled children and finally ended with the statement that "I want no part in this".

To which the response was "Then kindly leave the thread". This was in no way an uncivil response. Why would we want someone to stay if they don't want to be here or participate in a civil/constructive way?

Afterwards DawnSolaria edited one of their posts with an apology for being hotheaded and rude.

As I stated previously (twice actually), everyone, regardless of if they are pleased or displeased with the contest, is entitled to post in a constructive manner.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

and someone telling another to get out of the thread is not civil. while i disagree with you OP (and i'll admit i havent been following this contest but i do love some of the finalists) i feel you have the right to be vocal though i disagree with this uprising.

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This is not an uprising. We are having a discussion. Good criticism is always welcome.

However rudeness and bashing one opinions just for the sake of it, will not.

We love this and other contests.

Thats why we are trying to make it even better with some feedback, that we would like to reach SE.

Calling people whiners is not productive and surely not respectful, nor healthy for this discussion.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Barking and showing teeth? Backed into a corner? Did you even read all the posts prior to the one of mine that you quoted that you felt was so uncivil? .

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it doesnt matter if i read it all it does not excuse telling someone to leave. i did btw, i make it a habit to read whole threads before commenting and have done so here, all except the revised OP.