The positive Astrologian thread!

Agree Coralie 100%

I love this thread. Peaceful tranquility. I love my detractors even on this thread. Love you guys!!!

All the first week savage clears with Astrologians are there to prove the job is fine if played well. People are just bad and need some carries.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

All the first week savage clears with Astrologians are there to prove the job is fine if played well.

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It just proves that if you have an Astrologian in the party the first two bosses can be healed, it doesn't prove that AST is on paar with WHM and SCH in progress raiding.
It doesn't prove that the (weak and RNG) buffs of AST justify the lack of healing cooldowns.

When you progress a boss you don't need RNG buffs with a little mana buff or a little bit more tp, or 1,X% more raiddamage on a RNG basis that the cards provide. You need consistency. You need reliable heal cooldowns, because you do trial and error with a boss because things will always go wrong on your first boss try's. You need enough healing power to try as long as possible to practice after a boss pull before the wipe. You need an off healer that can provide dps safely, because you know you have the heal cooldowns, when something goes wrong, to safe the damage dealer fastly after he stood in the fire. AST simply does not provide this kind of healing cd's.

How many AST's where brought on the world first kills on Alexander Savage 1,2,3? I saw none. Everything was WHM and SCH. AST just isn't played on a high player level, and it's that way for a reason.
In a Boss try where everything goes right, AST might be decent. But other than that.. WHM and SCH are just the better option for progress raiding. At the moment AST is just a gimmick healer.

I love AST in Frontlines. I was inspired by that YouTube video I posted, and so I opted to trying. Sooo much fun in Nocturnal in PVP.

The other night I had a SMN, NIN and a WAR on me, and they couldn't kill me. I even managed to stop and /laugh at the SMN and still got away from all three of them after they chased me for a good 3 minutes trying to kill me.

We currently are raiding savage with Ast and I am more than happy to have them in my group. I have much love for Ast.

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Originally Posted by Vihalo

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The reason why people are not bringing Astrologians to high end progression groups is that it requires a learning curve to play the job on raids, since there's no dummy you can practice healing checks on. People don't want to learn both the fight and the new strategy that a new healing job requires. That takes time and people who want World 1st want to do it as fast as they can, so they're sticking to the old meta. That doesn't mean that AST is not as good as the others, it means it's different and that it was not meant to replace the old healing strategy, but to create new ones. This should be obvious, but players are showing that they can't understand the basics about FF XIV gameplay. The bitching about cards or cooldowns shows that. If you can't play ir right and progress with it, it means you need to get good. If you're struggling, you suck. Don't blame the job, blame yourself.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

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The thing is: The basic healing tools of Astrologian are basically just carbon coby's of Whitemage 2.0. with very few minor changes, so there is not much new to learn. The card system is not that complicated. Astrologian is not a magical box you open with a hidden key and suddenly you become good.

Top guilds are not so stupid that they have to learn this in months and months of time. If Astrologian had something to offer that is desireable to bring AST to progress they would take AST with them. They know the game very well, that is why they are on top.

People who are invested in AST and truly enjoy it should be candid about its opportunities.

Trying to convince others that it's fine because it's special, unique, complex, and just needs to be appreciated is not merely silly, but is counterproductive to promoting the Job. There's nothing particularly challenging about playing AST well, and no special reward for being amazing; you simply end up having to play at a higher skill level if you want to match the performance of someone with somewhat less skill, but with an inherently more powerful Job.

This thread was fine when it was "I enjoy AST because..," but lately it's full of this nonsense about AST having magical onion layers that conceal its true power....

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Originally Posted by Vihalo

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That means you failed to grasp the concept and how the "minor" changes affect gameplay. If it was carbon copy, people wouldn't be having problems to heal with the job. The fact that they are, even though the spells are "almost the same", means that there's a different gameplay. And it's not months of time, we're talking about days or hours. Top guilds have realized that the cards are not going to boost DPS to make it meet dps checks that wouldn't be met otherwise and that the presence of an AST would mean that there's new strategies to develop, learn and master. They don't want to invest time in that, because that could be easy to do or very hard, depending on the fight. Sticking to the known is safer and requires less effort. This is not a problem. People should be able to do fights with WHM/SCH and it's easier because we've been doing it since 2.0. Just stop adding problems to a job just because you're not skilled enough to play it properly.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

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Let's translate what you said: SCH/WHM is better because I can suck at it and get carried, or make up for my flaws with easier mechanics. That's pretty much the gist of almost every single complaint about AST. Thanks for saying it out loud.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

That means you failed to grasp the concept and how the "minor" changes affect gameplay. If it was carbon copy, people wouldn't be having problems to heal with the job.

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Yep.. the missing heal cooldowns are a big difference.. what other skills of AST would require a brand-new complicated strategy exactly again?

Also your theory is that because of minor changes (they really are minor, just compare them) of basic healing tools in comparison to white mage we all have so much problems?
So all this discussions in the japanese forums (173 pages thread now) and english forums are only because the people just can't play the job? C'mon.
Well let's just agree to disagree. We will see on the next raid tier if the top raid guilds solved this puzzle and maybe then they will take AST with them.

How far this thread has fallen. From being about celebrating the strengths and beautiful artwork that went into AST, to name calling, trolling, and chest-beating.

Lets put it back on topic (again), shall we?

Essential Dignity is really nice to have at low levels; I'm really surprised that SE gave it to AST at such a low level, when SCH/WHM don't get their emergency heals until much later in the game. Makes doing low-level dungeons as a healer really easy, and allows you to DPS longer without having to switch stances!

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

Let's translate what you said: SCH/WHM is better because I can suck at it and get carried, or make up for my flaws with easier mechanics. That's pretty much the gist of almost every single complaint about AST. Thanks for saying it out loud.

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My, aren't we a snippy little thing? If you want to make it personal, go for it, but last I checked we were discussing game mechanics, not making baseless assumptions about how we play in-game.

If your position is so weak that you need to resort to such to continue your argument, perhaps you should ask yourself if you might be the one without a legitimate point to make.

I never had problems with the lower potency. Other people are. I love the job and I believe in its strength when played well. If 20/30 less potency in some spells give you guys such a hard time, by all means, stop playing the job and go to the "easier" ones, since they don't have any restrictive mechanics and no weaknesses. Leave AST for those who can, and want, to do it.

AST is a whole lot of fun.

SCH and WHM are boring.

That's really all there is to it. Yes, the cards could be a ton more powerful, but who cares. I'm sticking with what's fun. If noone wants an AST, Ill switch jobs.

Oh and man are them space spells nice to look at. I still think malefic 2 is the best looking spell in the game.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

I never had problems with the lower potency. Other people are. I love the job and I believe in its strength when played well. If 20/30 less potency in some spells give you guys such a hard time, by all means, stop playing the job and go to the "easier" ones, since they don't have any restrictive mechanics and no weaknesses. Leave AST for those who can, and want, to do it.

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So can you answer my question please?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3204468


You should know that there has been ASTs who managed to complete the first floor but noticed the obvious weaknesses and even posted them on these forums. They aknowledged the problems with the job and were asked to switch. So should they stop playing the job because they acknowledged the weaknesses although they could play it "right", even if struggling and/or making their other healer struggle more? I dont' see the relation between a good player and making AST's weaknesses completely obsolete and nonexistant. Mayority of people agree that AST is not in its best state, are you gonna tell me that 99% of these healers that have main healed since 2.0 are just simply bad at playing even if part of these 99% are top raiders, including japanese players?

I'm genuinly interested in knowing how AST is better than SCH, since I don't play SCH and I have my own experience as AST, experiences from other ASTs and actual facts posted on the forums that point towards the opposite of your statements. Please elaborate further *in the other thread*.

Sorry for the derail guys :x I just thought I'd point them to my question since they are still around but missed it.

I can elaborate the reason why I think my AST will be more helpful in the AoE healing (that's what I said in the other thread) and in managing preys than my SCH.
AoE healing is a WHM field. They get the most powerful spells and they have lots of them (Cure III, Medica, Medica II, Assize and Asylum). SCH lacks spells in that department: they have Succor, which has 150 potency and shields, and Indomitability, being off-GCD and consuming 1 stack of Aetherflow. They can also turn Succor into a Medica if they use their Emergency Tactics cooldown, which is 30s. The struggle is as follows: if I use ET to turn Succor into a 300 potency AoE healing spell, I lose that cooldown to turn Adloquium into a big healing spell (600 potency, unless it crits) and if I use Indomitability, I lose one stack and can only do 2 more Lustrates until I get more stacks of Aetherflow. This is one of the SCH's weaknesses: since they can do much shielding and DPSing, they lack healing tools. [I'll continue]

Since Lustrate is basically their only reliable big healing spell, SCHs need to save stacks. This made prey a bit stressful, since managing all the cds and stacks to big heal the prey target and the tank made me less potent to take care of some AoE in between damage. I'm sure that SCHs CAN and WILL heal that well, they just need to overcome that weakness, which is NOT a problem, but the way the job is intended to be. As AST, however, I have an AoE 300 potency healing spell AS WELL as an 150ish AoE heal-shield spell (Helios/Aspec. Helios), so I don't need to struggle with cooldowns or consume any stacks (MP management will be the new thing). Also, I have a big healing spell available all the time (Benefic II, 650ish potency in Noct). [continues]

I'll also have Synastry, so I can put it on the tank and heal both him and the prey target at the same time - I was doing 2 lustrates on the prey and 1 on the tank, and with Synastry I can just use two big heals on the prey target and the tank will get healed by the same amount as he was when I was SCH, with less resources. Healing with Helios requires less MP than healing with ET+Succor and Benefic II costs less MP than ET+Adlo. It's basically an easier way to do the same thing, honestly, and this happens because of the difference between the two jobs internal mechanics. I'm pretty sure this isn't the best strategy while playing SCH, but it was what my WHM partner felt most comfortable with, and I'm going to be able to handle it better as AST – or at least some parts of it.

Although I see some valid points, I do agree that we need to keep talking about how awesome astrologians are. There seems to be 101 different threads with people debating back and forth. On a positive note, we downed Faust tonight and got to start working on the oppressor. Sure I may be a week behind all the "top" fc groups. But I am having fun. And that's the important thing. Keep on slinging them stars :)

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

I never had problems with the lower potency. Other people are. I love the job and I believe in its strength when played well. If 20/30 less potency in some spells give you guys such a hard time, by all means, stop playing the job and go to the "easier" ones, since they don't have any restrictive mechanics and no weaknesses. Leave AST for those who can, and want, to do it.

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Again, potency is not AST's problem. Their biggest problem is that they bring very little to the table that other healer Jobs can't do better by design. This supposed skill ceiling at which the Job becomes on par with its peers doesn't exist; merely being adequate to clear content doesn't cut it when the other two Jobs are stronger and overall push better raid numbers given equivalent skill and group comp.

Now that I've issued constructive criticism, let me take a shot of kool-aid: the artwork and style of AST is one of the reasons I want to see the Job become competitive, because it's gorgeous in play and feels "fun" to me. The attention to detail like the dissolving motes of shadow following Gravity and Combust is amazing.

Well, Astrologian is better healer than Paladin ^^

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Again, potency is not AST's problem. Their biggest problem is that they bring very little to the table that other healer Jobs can't do better by design.

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It's a shame that the job doesn't have a significantly different healing style or something.

I don't want to make comparisons to other games, but consider Resto Druid, Holy Paladin, Disc Priest...all wildly different. Even WHM and SCH are pretty different!

Meanwhile it's like AST wants to be a mini-WHM or something, which makes it very easy to compare the toolkits and see that one is just not bringing as much to the table.

positive... hum... they have the best LB, beautiful actions, weapon looks good and they can heal the normal content just fine

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Again, potency is not AST's problem. Their biggest problem is that they bring very little to the table that other healer Jobs can't do better by design. This supposed skill ceiling at which the Job becomes on par with its peers doesn't exist; merely being adequate to clear content doesn't cut it when the other two Jobs are stronger and overall push better raid numbers given equivalent skill and group comp.

Now that I've issued constructive criticism,

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I see a lot of people, not just you. Using the term constructive criticism, which is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one, to describe their more blatent criticism of this job.

A good example of constructive criticism would be. Although I find the card system of the astrologian to be quite unique and interesting I find it wanting in a group situation, and feel it could be bettered by adding a stacking buff to card usage (similar to warriors and certain abilities they use while in defiance) that would increase healing potency/mana refresh rate/card potency and maybe even tie it in with the sects, so as to the card usage buff increased, so too does the shield strength in nocturnal, or the regen length or potency in diurnal.

Constructive criticism doesn't need to incorporate apologetic statements such as "I really love X, but Y." Constructive criticism is intended to be helpful by pointing out areas needing improvement.

Constructive criticism can also be blatant; sugar-coating is not required, especially since discussing AST's shortcoming in gameplay and suggesting improvement is not the same as bashing the designers and artists who made the Job. The true insult would be not caring enough to share candid feedback.

I just did Tam Tara hard mode for the first time and on the final Boss the tank pulled too fast because he was being a jerk so 1 DPS got locked out. I healed the entire fight with ease and no MP issues even though most of the glyphs got activated.

I love Astrologian!!!!

Sadly, after playing ASTRO for a bit (granted still level 51) - I have to agree more with the negative threads. If this job is a healer who can buff the party, as its "niche" - then AST should have more control on their buffs, and the buffs need BIGGER potency. Otherwise, if the buffs are just "nice things" to have, to add some variety, but provide only minor bonuses that is so minuscule to matter.... then for the love of GOD.... Fix our healing capabilities, and our shield, and our MP cost to be on par with the other 2 healers. I feel that the developer only play AST to level 50, the abilities we have at 50 is AMAZING!! but past that to level 60, it become very obvious, this one healer is the worst of the three with no way to recover when "shit hit the fans" and you gotta babysit a bunch of DPS "too dumb to function and keep getting hit by AOE".

I love watching a master Astrologian disprove so many haters on this forum. But haters will hate is all we can say. Continue proving everyone wrong and if you love the astrologian then you will do well.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

I love watching a master Astrologian disprove so many haters on this forum.

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I'd love to watch this, too, but...where is it?

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Originally Posted by Vlady

I love watching a master Astrologian disprove so many haters on this forum. But haters will hate is all we can say. Continue proving everyone wrong and if you love the astrologian then you will do well.

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Where is the master astrologian, cause I only know a handful that have cleared floors of Alex Savage and all of them say that it would have been easier if they went WHM or SCH instead of AST.

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Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

Where is the master astrologian, cause I only know a handful that have cleared floors of Alex Savage and all of them say that it would have been easier if they went WHM or SCH instead of AST.

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God forbid a class isn't as easy as other classes, we might actually have some diversity.

Man all these whiners on this forum. Garbage, Play the game and enjoy it, Its not impossible, maybe harder. They'll fix it if they deem it to be in need of a fix. Easy as that it is.

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Originally Posted by Blitzace

God forbid a class isn't as easy as other classes, we might actually have some diversity. Man all these whiners on this forum. Garbage, Play the game and enjoy it, Its not impossible, maybe harder. They'll fix it if they deem it to be in need of a fix. Easy as that it is.

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I am all about diversity, but they really need to put AST to its niche, which is a healer who can provide "buffs" more consistently to the party, and buffs that are far better than any WHM or SCH can bring to the table (and far more consistent). I am ok that it heals less, or the shield is not as good. But the job needs "oh shit" buttons, and more ways to recover from bad things.

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Originally Posted by Blitzace

God forbid a class isn't as easy as other classes, we might actually have some diversity.

Man all these whiners on this forum. Garbage, Play the game and enjoy it, Its not impossible, maybe harder. They'll fix it if they deem it to be in need of a fix. Easy as that it is.

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you can say people are whiners all you want but the truth is ast is visibly weaker in heals than sch and whm and content IS easier with them, that's why people prefer them, only a handful of people have cleared a1/a2 savage in a party with an ast, the healing difference is visible.

Again, I'm reading comments that illustrate perfectly my point: people need to get better and know the other healing roles as well. Someone said AST needs to get MP fixed to be on pair with other jobs. AST's spells cost at least around 100 MP less than their WHM/SCH counterparts – some higher tier spells cost over 300mp less. Then, they say things about the healing potency of the spells, which is not lower in Nocturnal Sect and less than 10% lower in Diurnal (which translates into 100-200 HP healing output at level 60), but the extra speed makes up for the potency loss in hps. This means that, even if you were playing WHM or SCH, you would still suck at healing. The only thing AST lacks is a Divine Seal cooldown, but that's WHM's signature move and no other job should have that.

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Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

Where is the master astrologian, cause I only know a handful that have cleared floors of Alex Savage and all of them say that it would have been easier if they went WHM or SCH instead of AST.

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Haters will be haters. Of course white or scholar would be easier because the jobs are easier. They do not indirectly have their strength tied to strengthening other people like we do.

Except you forget the part that SCH strengthen other people better than AST.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Haters will be haters. Of course white or scholar would be easier because the jobs are easier. They do not indirectly have their strength tied to strengthening other people like we do.

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The jobs are more powerful. They are NOT easier. There really is a difference.