Recipe changes in 1.19

whoa whoa wtf o_O
These "Items not Used in New Recipes", these are ALL going to be obsolete??
Thats like more than half the list of the major base craft mats

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Originally Posted by Tibian

Yeah I'd like some clarification on if this was a mistake or not. Karakul skin has to be in the game.

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Maybe the sheep drop fleece now instead of skin. They didn't list any new enemy drops.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Maybe the sheep drop fleece now instead of skin. They didn't list any new enemy drops.

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Then why bother to update the recipe yield or the other recipes where the skin is used? If it's not an oversight, then it seems leves are going to be more important for attaining certain items.

Totally bummed that the plethora of hyena hides I have stocked up still aren't going to be used but the aldgoat hides I've been vendoring are going to finally have a use. I dropped the soap on that one.

Glad I already have all 8 crafts at 50.

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

Then why bother to update the recipe yield or the other recipes where the skin is used? If it's not an oversight, then it seems leves are going to be more important for attaining certain items.

Totally bummed that the plethora of hyena hides I have stocked up still aren't going to be used but the aldgoat hides I've been vendoring are going to finally have a use. I dropped the soap on that one.

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The only recipes that use karakul skin can also be made with sheepskin so there's no need to farm these.

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Glad I already have all 8 crafts at 50.

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Lucky you. The only downside you have is that while i'll be leveling those crafts you'll still be watching tv. :p

We can still use the old recipes, right?

I've got over 1000 iron nuggets, and I've got neither the time, shards, or patience to turn all of them into ingots. I've got over 500 silver, brass, copper and bronze as well.

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Originally Posted by lenn1

The only recipes that use karakul skin can also be made with sheepskin so there's no need to farm these.

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Karakul Fleece can still only be made by karakul skin. Woolen yarn's recipe is being updated where you will need karakul fleece. The new felt items also require it. So tell me again why we won't need to farm it?

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

Karakul Fleece can still only be made by karakul skin. Woolen yarn's recipe is being updated where you will need karakul fleece. The new felt items also require it. So tell me again why we won't need to farm it?

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I dont see anywhere that karakul fleece is crafted after 1.19. Thats why someone said it might be a drop. Plus all the yarns are made with raw mats like cotton bolls, moko grass, and flax. It seems that fleece is in that category now.

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Originally Posted by Sigtyr

We can still use the old recipes, right?

I've got over 1000 iron nuggets, and I've got neither the time, shards, or patience to turn all of them into ingots. I've got over 500 silver, brass, copper and bronze as well.

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Yes, all of the old recipes will remain after 1.19, but are planned to be deleted after 1.20.

im still a bit confused.
There are some 'parts' that are listed in the "Items not Used in New Recipes", but the products that use the parts are not listed in the 'updated recipe' nor the 'new recipe'. So what happens to those?
example: Iron Celata Visor (parts)
product is Iron Celata. Its not listed anywhere in the recipe change categories?

if the parts arent gonna be used, isnt the product suppose to be listed with an updated recipe list?

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Originally Posted by lenn1

I dont see anywhere that karakul fleece is crafted after 1.19. Thats why someone said it might be a drop. Plus all the yarns are made with raw mats like cotton bolls, moko grass, and flax. It seems that fleece is in that category now.

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I don't see anywhere that fleece is crafted after 1.19...... yet it's in a lot of the new recipes. And they certainly aren't taking away sheepskin are they?

The fleece (karakul and normal) recipes didn't get updated so they remain the same. They were simple recipes to begin with that didn't yield a whole lot so they had no reason to touch them. I'll give on the point that they are possibly making karakul fleece into enemy drop only and will need to be farmed not crafted but it's asinine to apply it only to karakul and regular.

The "Updated Recipes" really ruined 1.19 for me. IMO it's one of the stupidest things SE has done to crafters that is seeking to rank up their crafts!

I really can't figure out why would they even think about changing that without offering alternatives. Did they add a new way to SP crafts? did they add new ways to acquire those raw materials? did they increase the drop rates of those raw materials by 400%~800~? Did they increase the SP gain for crafting? Did they increase the SP gain and bonuses from local leves? Did they slash down the SP needed to rank up?....etc

Crafting as is, is one of the most time/money consuming and boring aspect of the game and SE continue to ignore this fact and now they decided to prolong this process by this!

Again, this is really disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Sontawila

The "Updated Recipes" really ruined 1.19 for me. IMO it's one of the stupidest things SE has done to crafters that is seeking to rank up their crafts!

I really can't figure out why would they even think about changing that without offering alternatives. Did they add a new way to SP crafts? did they add new ways to acquire those raw materials? did they increase the drop rates of those raw materials by 400%~800~? Did they increase the SP gain for crafting? Did they increase the SP gain and bonuses from local leves? Did they slash down the SP needed to rank up?....etc

Crafting as is, is one of the most time/money consuming and boring aspect of the game and SE continue to ignore this fact and now they decided to prolong this process by this!

Again, this is really disappointed.

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Seems the main point was to decrease the overabundance of supply (and fluff with a lot of synths) which isn't a bad thing for the game economy. Some synths have decreased by 30% to 75% in their output. But the major side effect, unless SP values are changed, is the increase in time to rank up now. Crafting is still atrociously boring either way.

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Originally Posted by Sontawila

The "Updated Recipes" really ruined 1.19 for me. IMO it's one of the stupidest things SE has done to crafters that is seeking to rank up their crafts!

I really can't figure out why would they even think about changing that without offering alternatives. Did they add a new way to SP crafts? did they add new ways to acquire those raw materials? did they increase the drop rates of those raw materials by 400%~800~? Did they increase the SP gain for crafting? Did they increase the SP gain and bonuses from local leves? Did they slash down the SP needed to rank up?....etc

Crafting as is, is one of the most time/money consuming and boring aspect of the game and SE continue to ignore this fact and now they decided to prolong this process by this!

Again, this is really disappointed.

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Seriously. While it hasn't ruined 1.19 for me I feel a bit vexed. On one hand I did think that some changes should have been made to lower level crafts as far as gear goes, the fact that all gear resembles each other (in terms of the recipe) is a lie! I thought Yoshida said that this wouldn't be the case, and yet as we can see it is.
This is an extensive list...some of it was unnecessary.

Gear recipes needed a change, but all parts or most parts and their removal was not necessary. Not if they were going to keep their promise that higher ranked synths would keep close as possible to their original recipe. Also, have you seen some of these cut backs? From 12 to 1 under the pretence that "if any more in one synth is created there will be an influx" however certain parts require MORE parts. Already it takes 5 cotton threads to produce 3 bolts of cloth. That's hardly unbalanced.

Such as undyed Velveteen. From 5 thread to 1 or 2 cotton, and one Dew, when dew thread's recipe hasn't changed at all but the amount it yields has been reduced to 1 instead of 12.

I don't think we should spend that much time on sub-parts to create cloth when the previous recipes were doing the current system justice. If anything, reduce the amount of threads from 12 to 6. Not 1. 1 is bullshit.

I hope that is subject to change as it is something I'm currently leveling off of. Further more, dew thread is ranks higher than undyed velveteen, it's silly. Pointless, really, that it was even touched. Lol I can't even.

its simple said a nightmare,
well i hate the patch already, crafting wise a pain.
unless they handout 15 times the exp,i don't see a way to level any craft-skill, why 15 times? simple,do the math for silverneedles.
crafting some tailorthings, sounds fun now, where do i get thousends of crystals/shards for free? because that is going to be very intense,if we get 1 instead of 12, and so on.
did they even spend time to think about what they are doing? iam sorry,but this is no improvement,under no circumstance. don't even want to mention alche/cooking.

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Originally Posted by Lunaru

its simple said a nightmare,
well i hate the patch already, crafting wise a pain.
unless they handout 15 times the exp,i don't see a way to level any craft-skill, why 15 times? simple,do the math for silverneedles.
crafting some tailorthings, sounds fun now, where do i get thousends of crystals/shards for free? because that is going to be very intense,if we get 1 instead of 12, and so on.
did they even spend time to think about what they are doing? iam sorry,but this is no improvement,under no circumstance. don't even want to mention alche/cooking.

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If anything we're using double to triple the raw mats & time for the same amount, and often less, of parts. Excuse me, how is this an improvement? You're correct. I don't know why the change of parts was so drastic when it was the recipes for full-items that needed tweaks according to their ranks.
Which meant phasing out certain parts, but not all of them. Now it's just...even more tedious and exasperating than it is currently. D:

Also, alch and cooking are being tweaked in 1.20 & onward. I notice that dyes have been removed from Alchemy as well as parts for things such as sleeping potions? SIGH.
The list is nice, but you cannot deny that longer note than "It's for the better" should have been attached to this. Particularly rank requirements.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Regarding the dyes, they're probably not showing more than 1-2 variations on the old recipes because it would make that list like 4x longer than it already is.

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^That's exactly what I'm thinking. I mean the saving write-up time thing works in my mind because the recipe is essentially the same except for the dye and they are called "All-purpose". If they just show one or two examples that should be enough to let people know what's going on.

anyone missing the oil / glue nerf?`if they improve alche in 1.20,why nerf it now?
and yes,this products are still in use.

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Originally Posted by KingZeus

i'm a little upset they didn't add in the higher level fish :o
tired of those fish being in the dat files and on websites, but they are still not in game a year later :(

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In the Famitsu magazine they mentioned that they will be making changes to the fishing games That's probably why they didn't add anything.

Regarding the parts deletion, this was to assist in people making things. Not grinding. I thought that was plain when they talked about it the first time.

One thing to keep in mind, crafting use to be a primary job meaning it was going to be equal to DoL and DoW - that's not the direction they want to go anymore.

For what is worth I'm happy with the changes.

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Originally Posted by radstar88

I noticed that to make Red items you had to use brown dye.... How odd?

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That's because red items are actually brown lol.

*open link*

*see size of the scroll bar*


*go hide in a corner*

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Originally Posted by Webster

One thing to keep in mind, crafting use to be a primary job meaning it was going to be equal to DoL and DoW - that's not the direction they want to go anymore.

For what is worth I'm happy with the changes.

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What's happening is that they're becoming support. A lot of folks think that "support" means "Lesser" "secondary" or "not important".

The root problem with a lot of DoL and DoH jobs was that they weren't being used optimally because they were treated as ends themselves and not a means to the end as what they should have been. Eoreza is facing a threat that will need to be met with the strongest weapons and defended against with the best gear. But this was being thwarted by a long list of parts, dyes, glues, etc that made crafters focus on only making high rank gear and trying to HQ it. The result was a lack of gears for people at lower ranks because it just wasn't worth it. It actually led to fewer real crafters. There are lots of high rank crafters who don't make anything because they're only high rank for their own repairs.

The crafting system was defeating the purpose of crafting. The new system focusses on making things, simplified recipes are conducive to creation, not grinding sp. The new repair system will move people away from grinding just so they can fix their gear to 100% which will give lower rank crafting of gear a chance to shine. (I went through about 20 ranks of grinding crafts, ranks 15-35, without making a single item of gear.). Add to that materia...

Regarding DoL: There were few items that were actually desireable. This items were used primarily in grinding. Everything else was NPC food. The result was a shortage of items used in crafting parts for gears. It also made DoL extremely boring. Why would anyone want to travel the world gathering different things, when they're only going to need a few things (Iron, Silver, Gold sand, and maybe pyrite, were the only things worth mining.) Now with the new system, even high rank DoLs will gather dyes for colors and they have to travel all around the world to do it. What's best, a lot of the things they gathered was dropped from mobs, further marginalizing the class. These items will no longer be dropped, meaning that DoL will be more important now. High ranking DoL will have access now to exclusive grade five mats as well. Add to that Catalysts for Materia...

These are solid well thought out changes. Thumbs up for all who made this possible.

Weird, they said they wanted to simplify crafting and make it more accesible, and they make it so it takes 3x as much time and money to skill up now... *shrug*

R10-20 crafters may be thinking of these changes as "good", but you will change your mind when you hit the 40s and find that you can't level up in any cost-effective manner

Here's essentially what's going to happen:

The whole lot of you are going to bitch and moan about all these changes until the patch and maybe a week or two after. At that point everyone who is still playing will, as some have already done, accept the new system and realize that no amount of crying will change the fact that you have to use it if you want to craft. After a month or two everyone will be set in the new ways and will act like the old system never existed. It happens almost every time they introduce a new system or change an existing one.

The only difference with this change is that you can actually still use the old recipes until 1.20. People will have a grace period to find the new SP craft grindss and whatnot, and they will.

While I hesitate to quote myself >.>; ...

Pretty much the changes were as expected from three weeks ago.

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Originally Posted by Amineri

/snip

How?

The simplest way would be to make all recipes require at least four ingredients, and to have nearly all ingredients be the result of a crafting process, and not simply dropped / gathered items. To keep gathered / dropped items relevant, the synthesis chain from material to ingredient should be no longer then 1 or 2 (e.g. ore ~> cobalt rings, ore ~> ingot ~> plate, fibre ~> yarn ~> cloth). Further, the recipes that make up ingredients should be more inline with the final synthesis. Finally, the ingredient synths should produce, as a general rule, only a single ingredient.

/snip

If the recipes are balanced in terms of requiring 4 to 8 manufactured ingredients, and if these ingredients are of a rank close to the resulting item, then the requirement that all ingredients be HQ in order to achieve an HQ result becomes a balancing restriction. The process of creating an HQ item shifts from "gathering the easy parts, spamming careful on low rank parts, skip the hard parts, make many HQ attempts", to "gather the high rank materials, spend time making every ingredient HQ". It is different, but it is not necessarily easier.

/snip

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The original post linked is very long, so be forewarned. I don't see anything really major that I would change.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

What's happening is that they're becoming support. A lot of folks think that "support" means "Lesser" "secondary" or "not important".

The root problem with a lot of DoL and DoH jobs was that they weren't being used optimally because they were treated as ends themselves and not a means to the end as what they should have been. Eoreza is facing a threat that will need to be met with the strongest weapons and defended against with the best gear. But this was being thwarted by a long list of parts, dyes, glues, etc that made crafters focus on only making high rank gear and trying to HQ it. The result was a lack of gears for people at lower ranks because it just wasn't worth it. It actually led to fewer real crafters. There are lots of high rank crafters who don't make anything because they're only high rank for their own repairs.

The crafting system was defeating the purpose of crafting. The new system focusses on making things, simplified recipes are conducive to creation, not grinding sp. The new repair system will move people away from grinding just so they can fix their gear to 100% which will give lower rank crafting of gear a chance to shine. (I went through about 20 ranks of grinding crafts, ranks 15-35, without making a single item of gear.). Add to that materia...

Regarding DoL: There were few items that were actually desireable. This items were used primarily in grinding. Everything else was NPC food. The result was a shortage of items used in crafting parts for gears. It also made DoL extremely boring. Why would anyone want to travel the world gathering different things, when they're only going to need a few things (Iron, Silver, Gold sand, and maybe pyrite, were the only things worth mining.) Now with the new system, even high rank DoLs will gather dyes for colors and they have to travel all around the world to do it. What's best, a lot of the things they gathered was dropped from mobs, further marginalizing the class. These items will no longer be dropped, meaning that DoL will be more important now. High ranking DoL will have access now to exclusive grade five mats as well. Add to that Catalysts for Materia...

These are solid well thought out changes. Thumbs up for all who made this possible.

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For the crafting centrist the sound of these changes might be a little disconcerting.

To the casual crafter, this is actually okay, despite the knock in sp gain/time.

I casually craft with leves almost exclusively. I never liked the idea of grinding crafts with my own resources. I'd rather craft with their resources. With the changes to guildleves being able to stack 99 leves, I'll be plenty busy with crafting and leveling at the same pace, if not faster due to not missing leve resets at 5AM.

But ya, the game is moving away from the "If you just want to be a crafter you can just be a crafter" design philosophy and even though I play mainly battle classes I'll lament the loss of the crafter being able to experience the main storyline.

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! I really couldn't be happier with these changes. The crafting system currently is a huge mess. Just looking at the insanely long list of items that are being removed from the game after these revisions got me all excited.

I am curious about 2 things. Alchemist and Culinarian will definitely have a rough couple months until they get their revisions implemented correct? I feel a bit bad for you guys but, it's understandable that they'd like to completely finish the combat/stat changes before implementing a really well fleshed out potion and food system right?

The other thing I'm wondering is why are there so many comments about crafting taking longer to level because of this?

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Originally Posted by Radav

The other thing I'm wondering is why are there so many comments about crafting taking longer to level because of this?

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There are so many comments about it because we actually have little to no information to actually go on in terms of SP gains for the new recipes. People seem to think that they can judge the new recipe SP gains on the current ones which is actually quite foolish. We know next to nothing as far as SP is concerned, people are just freaking out as usual.

I remember reading a dev post that they were also changing the crafting and i thought gathering XP required down to not be so drastic as a DOW/DOM has it.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

There are so many comments about it because we actually have little to no information to actually go on in terms of SP gains for the new recipes. People seem to think that they can judge the new recipe SP gains on the current ones which is actually quite foolish. We know next to nothing as far as SP is concerned, people are just freaking out as usual.

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If SE didnt want people to freak out they could always give a few sentences to calm the masses.

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

If SE didnt want people to freak out they could always give a few sentences to calm the masses.

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But then the masses would say TL;DR

I'm clad I got Carpenter to 50 when I did. And alos glad I will be able to get 50 Weaver before the patch. 2 Flax > 12 Linen Yarn > 12 Linen CLoth changed to 12 Flax > 6 Linen Yarn > 1 Linen Cloth... /facepalm if your not 50 Weaver.

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Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

I'm clad I got Carpenter to 50 when I did. And alos glad I will be able to get 50 Weaver before the patch. 2 Flax > 12 Linen Yarn > 12 Linen CLoth changed to 12 Flax > 6 Linen Yarn > 1 Linen Cloth... /facepalm if your not 50 Weaver.

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Agreed... 50 erthang here. :cool:

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Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

I'm clad I got Carpenter to 50 when I did. And alos glad I will be able to get 50 Weaver before the patch. 2 Flax > 12 Linen Yarn > 12 Linen CLoth changed to 12 Flax > 6 Linen Yarn > 1 Linen Cloth... /facepalm if your not 50 Weaver.

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For those base mats items, yeah it's a bite in the butt; however, the old recipes are still going to be side-by-side for parts grinding so that's some relief. For ex: can still grind on vamps, shirt parts, etc. until 1.20. Granted it'll be about 4x as expensive/time consuming now....

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If anything we're using double to triple the raw mats & time for the same amount, and often less, of parts. Excuse me, how is this an improvement? You're correct. I don't know why the change of parts was so drastic when it was the recipes for full-items that needed tweaks according to their ranks.
Which meant phasing out certain parts, but not all of them. Now it's just...even more tedious and exasperating than it is currently. D:

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The improvement is that gatherers who were getting effed in the whole circle of life are now put back into focus and play a major role in the lifecycle of gear. It was a money making process to grind a craft from 1-50 in almost every craft except maybe goldsmithing and blacksmith. And even those didn't cost more then a few mil. It should be an achievement to reach 50 on a craft and players should not be able to say "I watched TV and have all crafts at 50". It should be an expensive journey that takes time.

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

The improvement is that gatherers who were getting effed in the whole circle of life are now put back into focus and play a major role in the lifecycle of gear. It was a money making process to grind a craft from 1-50 in almost every craft except maybe goldsmithing and blacksmith. And even those didn't cost more then a few mil. It should be an achievement to reach 50 on a craft and players should not be able to say "I watched TV and have all crafts at 50". It should be an expensive journey that takes time.

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Agreed but almost anyone I know with several crafts leveled (who didnt just simply bot their way there) all got there the same way grab a few seasons of your favorite TV show and spam standard.

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

The improvement is that gatherers who were getting effed in the whole circle of life are now put back into focus and play a major role in the lifecycle of gear. It was a money making process to grind a craft from 1-50 in almost every craft except maybe goldsmithing and blacksmith. And even those didn't cost more then a few mil. It should be an achievement to reach 50 on a craft and players should not be able to say "I watched TV and have all crafts at 50". It should be an expensive journey that takes time.

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ignorance. every craft costs millions now to actually grind out unless you have a shard bot that constantly supplies you with hundreds of thousands of shards. it was already an expensive journey and took time before.

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Agreed but almost anyone I know with several crafts leveled (who didnt just simply bot their way there) all got there the same way grab a few seasons of your favorite TV show and spam standard.

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can you explain one single change that is going to alleviate this? even finished gear now will be just standard bash to completion.

HiirNoivl makes a valid point.

With the current crafting system, we're mostly grind crafting SP, NPC'ing them, and not introducing items to the market.

New players who want to focus on adventuring get screwed, because they can't find affordable items in the wards. They usually get our hand-me downs.

The trade-off for more costly base materials is a swifter, less costly, less cumbersome creation of the end product.

Maybe less SP, maybe more SP, but the goal was to get items into the market, perhaps at more affordable prices. And I'm definitely for that, especially if it increases the longevity of this game.

...

/scatters off to make use of all the old components before it's too late