So you're saying you like button bloat. Okay. Good thing you aren't in charge of this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
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07-09-2015, 08:40 AMNFaelivrin
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07-09-2015, 09:00 AMGaland
Instead of spending all your time on the forums crying, try spending it in game having fun maybe and not worrying about things, youll live a longer life
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07-09-2015, 09:30 AMSkizzleofRagnarok
Wasnt exactly a button bloak on FFXI? It was just tactical if you want a super mash button megafest welcome to FFXIV.
Why is it always the same funny replies you get from people when they run out of arguements. Just because you have an opinion you are crying/trolling/go quit the game etc... -
07-09-2015, 09:34 AMLewtskie
It was useless bloat.
Weaponskills were some of the worst offenders. With how many you actually had, 2 or 3 were actually useful outside of chainskill fodder. And so many spells were because they didn't know how to upgrade spells currently known, so instead you just kept stacking tier after tier. Cumbersome and not well planned out.
And on that note:
Plenty of missions (not quests) had you collecting random shite or doing some sort of overly convoluted task. -
07-09-2015, 09:41 AMSkizzleofRagnarok
Like i said that take and learn from it create something unique not something thats already out and you are trying to take their consumer market by pretty much doing the same thing.
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07-09-2015, 09:47 AMLewtskie
Well 14 DID try and throw loops and shit out there. Problem is that doing so isn't always a guaranteed success. I doubt Squeenix would have been up for another gamble like that.
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07-09-2015, 09:59 AMSkizzleofRagnarok
If thats the case then why hear Yoshi P talk about he is trying to make a new creative and fun MMORPG when its exactly like everything else? These where his exact words so somewhere along the path you are kinda contradicting yourself as the executive director for an MMORPG. I know its hard trying to make something new just like that and get it to work I never said it was easy but build somewhere. If you used the lets make a WoW easy gameplay clone to get peoples attention thats awesome but then along the path form it differently. I'm sorry for beeing negative but he did a poor coca cola marketing stunt with 1.0 and most of us bought it for the better good in hopes of something better. In return most of us got stuck with FFXIV A Communism Reborn with Free handouts WoW Style.
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07-09-2015, 10:15 AMLewtskie
Always people so quick to call "CONTRADICTION", but whatever.
You have to see it this way, and to see this you really have to look at the big picture. The long term, essentially. To save the mess that was 1.X he had to go with something the was safe, structured and known to be successful. He needed a foundation. Can't keep trying to make something from out the blue. Yoshi's plan thus far has been using the simple, and functional mechanics that WoW has established. They are easy to understand and learn and this creates a gate for a fresh audience. He needed something that was going to make money. And from here, he can tweak and tinker, adding and changing things. Obviously you don't go for a suddenly radical shift. Slow and steady. So it's going to be long termed process. -
07-09-2015, 10:22 AMSkizzleofRagnarok
Well this so called longterm process should have been shown in this expansion of what they are actually capable of doing instead its been a huge let down so far. Deep inside I know you agree on this yourself. If you want to make gameplay easy and make people understand it and make them bite the hook so you can reel them in thats awesome thats how business should work and 4m subscription tells you that. 4m players are not some incompetent people though that needs handouts from left to right and want this easy mode gameplay. Somewhere along the way a line must be drawn where you teach the player to learn and become better at this game instead of giving them rewards for not wanting to learn anything and just slacking.
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07-09-2015, 10:29 AMSapphicSo you are telling me we didn't repeat the same content over and over and over and over again in FFXI? Completed CoP and farmed Sea and Sky over and over and over and over but limited because there was one for everyone. couldnt farm the same NMs when you wanted, oh no, wasnt designed that way. So you organised schedules with the other end game Linkshells to take it in turns, so most times you couldn't even enter to farm and hope for that rare drop that you had been trying for the last 12 months. Going as a caster, Ooo enjoy that magic aggro potentially wiping the party from the pots floating around.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
Trying to level up as a job that wasn't FOTM. GL with BLM, theres leeches over there, leeches? GL with MNK. DRG? just delete. Could go on.
Why do so many laud FFXI as the greatest thing ever while avoiding all the complaints that where in game and moaned about in game? Simple thing is the players made the game good, the game, on it's own, wasn't that good.
Anyways, yeah tis a little disapointing there is so little content overall in heavensward, for one Yoshi said there will be as much content as there was in 2.0. We seem to be missing a few dungeons for a start. Also 3.1, 3.2 etc. With 2.x we had, dungeon wise, 3 new dungeons. Two of those where HM versions of the levelling dungeons plus 1 new one. Due to how the HMs where done, time was saved because of reused assets. Now we only have 5 levelling dungeons, thats only 2.5 content updates worth if they stay the same. Will we only get 2 new dungeons per update now?
As we will be getting dev time spent on creating 2 versions fo the raids, Story mode and the harder savage mode. How much of a diversion of manhours will that entail from other projects? Doubtful that the Savage version will be the same as Savage SCoB, as the savage Alex and future raids are designed to be cleared. Whereas Savage SCoB wasn't, it was the base design, unbalanced. Albeit it was cleared showing the skill and inginuity of those who were able to clear, those who cleared when it was nw moreso.
Getting to the point, I was hoping Heavensward would be where they really start to take FFXIV in it's own direction. Where it would start to diferentiate itself from all the other MMOs. But all we can do is see what happens with the 3.x updates. -
07-09-2015, 10:35 AMLewtskie
Well we saw radical shift in mechanics with Coils, and consider them easy or hard they did start flinging everything at us including the kitchen sink. Outside Coils the Primals were fairly structured, simple in design and varied difficulty in execution. But it really did start a shift with Coils. And perhaps that's where the next shift will happen. I'm not sure if it'll be entirely seen in Alex Savage, could be something further down the line.
That aside, I guess I just see everything differently. What you see as handouts I just see as something to do in-between the madness. The tomes gear is just another fashion of leveling my character while I get completely used to my kit in a variety of situations. I see it as just further preparation for what's to come. -
07-09-2015, 10:44 AMSolaria_LunaOMG I think this is the best post in this thread. For some reason I read it and smiled. (I think it was "Bring me a testimony for your job")Quote:
Originally Posted by Andevom
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07-09-2015, 10:52 AMKata
I personally love this game and so much so I've purchased multiple copies including Collectors Editions to ensure I can play with my loved ones. Thing is SE expects me to purchase a 7th unnecessary copy because some Agent Melinda is unable to help me and is too incompetent that she rudely dismisses me despite the fact I waited in queue for HOURS!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
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07-09-2015, 11:43 AMLego3400Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
If you were expecting the game to change as dramatically as it did between 1.0 and 2.0 I don't know what to tell you. Of course an Expansion Pack is going to give more of the same. It's in the name. It's an expansion that builds upon what we have. -
07-09-2015, 01:22 PMAkiza
The problem with the op is he has unrealistic expectation its called an expansion not a reboot not a new Final Fantasy MMO so I wasn't expecting anything new I expected them to build on what is already in the base game. My problem is people always say they want something innovative and new but when developers try new things in an MMO it is recieved poorly and the game ends up being a free to play piece of crap rotting in the mmo graveyard. Since humans are slow to accept change by nature the only way to innovate in an mmo is to slowly build upon something thats already established until it transforms into something entirely different.
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07-09-2015, 01:29 PMChek
Treadmill theme park MMO.
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07-09-2015, 01:52 PMSynestraI hope that airship content has some real depth in it so we have something else besides alex and crafting, also i hope pvp gets some real love in 3.1Quote:
Originally Posted by Kio
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07-09-2015, 02:06 PMMhikailWell shoot. People get sick and tired of trying to convince some random dude on here why he should stay.Quote:
Originally Posted by WHS
Why's it always our job? If you don't like the game, then go. When I get sick of this game I don't nag about it, I leave and come back when something fun happens.
It's like convincing people to have McDonalds for days on end but they keep having some sort of complaint.
Scenario Time!
Guy; I had McDonalds...but it keeps having the same thing. Tell me why I should have McDonalds if it keeps on having the same things.
Girl; Well I like McDonald's, it has some good food, but I agree some things are bleh. Why not have Nuggets and a Mcflurry?
Guy; -Proceeds to complain about everything on the menu, then goes to order the same thing and continues to pay for it and eats it while complaining;
Then it just happens again every day...STOP GOING TO MCDON--...I mean, stop playing this game for a while!
Edit: Oop, the cats out the bag now folks! The dude wants FFXI:'Another Chance' MMO.
Game ain't FFXI, because OP already compared this to a over a decade year old game and obviously he wants that.
I'd suggest going back to that then. Oh wait, he doesn't wanna wait 15 years to use another skill!, sit in a dead town and look for a party for half his lifetime.
Well....slim pickin's I'd say. And the kicker to all of this is; people try to convince him but he always has to have the last word and turn his head away. It's annoying lol. -
07-09-2015, 02:18 PMKaedan94
I'm guessing this is your first MMO, OP?
This is standard practice. At least with FFXIV we get a good story to go along with it. I really don't know why you expect the gameplay to suddenly change.
If you don't enjoy how MMOs work, you may want to look at other genres of game. Witcher 3 (and it's predecessors) are very good, although even it has repetitive content. Hell, I don't think there's a game out there that doesn't have repetitive content.
EDIT: Oh, I see he played FFXI. Which makes his complaints even more confusing, since FFXI was just as repetitive if not moreso then FFXIV. -
07-09-2015, 05:32 PMSkizzleofRagnarok
FFXI didnt feel like a chore like FFXIV is for me atleast. I couldnt wait to get back home from work to play FFXI and even if i waited 3-4h to get a party sometimes in jeuno it just didnt bother me at all. I didnt like it ofcourse but it didnt bother me.
Like I said I never wanted another FFXI. Didnt expect SE to Hustle me with this new expansion. Everything about content beeing harder was a let down. The excuse here is well don't rush. If I have to compare games even if I rushed I couldnt beat CoP or Zilart in 4 days like I did the new expansion.
If the dev said they are going to try something new how are you gonna trick your own consumers by presenting the exact same thing over again?
Since we are comparing Zilart,CoP and FFXI wasnt the same?
FFXIV and Heavensward is pretty much the same?
Do these 2 dungeons x 5000 times to get law for all your jobs and get a few gears here and there. -
07-09-2015, 05:40 PMSkizzleofRagnarok
Again im not saying Yoshida does a horrible job but it only caters to casuals and rewards them but punishes everyone else for putting effort in. Treadmill/veritcal progression or whatever you want to call it. Many of us did not sign up for this. Again Many of us with the double subscriptions kept the game alive when Yoshida pretty much begged along side SE and said we will be rewarded. Rewarded how? So Yoshida with no FFXI experience at all and almost doubting having any Final Fantasy experience at all since he pretty much worked with Dragon Quest then this is giving the chance to create something this something lacks heart now and is just a cash cow for SE. Trust me its a business and all respect for making money but many feel let down and left out. I'm not some eliteist trying to stir up trouble either I'm just expressing my feelings and I'm trying to understand why it is ok beeing feed exactly the same game over again just a different story?
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07-09-2015, 05:55 PMKaedrianLiangOP is an instigator of a variety of shouts on Hyperion. I see you are on Hyperion so you know exactly what im talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruri
He will be playing this game til the end of time, as much as he hates it. -
07-09-2015, 07:16 PMTadacho
I do understand where the OP is coming from... Expansions usually overhaul a game in a sense that they add new and exciting ways to progress. Using FFXI as an example, Rise of the Zilart added Dynamis and Sky. Chains of Promathia added Sea and Limbus. Treasures of Aht Urhgan added a slew of new content and progression, from Einherjar to Salvage. Wings of the Goddess added Campaign. Added not even as expansion, came Abyssea, and lastly Seekers of Adoulin added the whole Colonization system along with Skirmishes and Delve. Brand new battle systems that kept the game fresh, whilst still staying true to the gameplay FFXI players new and loved.
3.0 is basically 2.0 reskinned. The progression is identical, using the same battle systems and progression means. Expansions shouldn't just be a level cap raise with new jobs in new areas. Cap your weekly tomes doing dungeon roulettes, beat the primals and farm hunts for upgrade items. FARM HUNTS! Of all things to recycle, why hunts? Because they worked so well in ARR?
And it looks as though the whole 3.0 patch cycle is going to be the same as 2.0 also. 24 man raid in 3.1. Most likely a new primal in each patch and a few new dungeons. Beast men dailies will start in 3.1, just as they did in 2.1. Ultima Extreme was 2.1, I wonder will we get <spoiler> Extreme in 3.1? PVP was added in 2.1, and also 3.1 will see major PVP additions. It's almost as though they thought "well, 2.0+ worked, let's not change it".
Are we to expect the same cycle of reskinned content for the 4.0 series also or do we speak up now that we might get original and creative new battle systems as a means to progress our characters? -
07-09-2015, 08:07 PMSkizzleofRagnarok
Tadacho tell that to KeadrianLiang according to him I'm pretty much just a troll..
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07-09-2015, 08:10 PMLewtskie
You must be a troll to say that Dynamis was fun! Hooooo~
I'm just kidding, but in all seriousness, screw Dynamis. I don't know how you people would call that fun. -
07-09-2015, 08:15 PMBishop81Well, let's hope they mix it up a little in future patches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadacho
To be fair, it's dangerous to change too much too quickly. You don't want to alienate existing players by throwing them a curveball. Change needs to be gradual - but not too gradual. -
07-09-2015, 08:43 PMSarcasmMisserSounds like exactly the sort of customer SE should take for granted. Hell if you endured 1.x you have clearly proven you will pay SE regardless of what is served up, so maybe the topic should read "help me understand if SE needs to listen to me (they dont)".Quote:
Originally Posted by KaedrianLiang
I think no one would miss you if you were gone OP, but you are not going to go. Convince us that you would actually vote with your wallet because you seem hopelessly attached to the FF franchise.
You know I get the feeling we could get to 4.0, or 5.0 and there will still be these people hanging around on a delusional thought that the game is going to change just next patch I'm sure if we post more it will happen. Clearly not a customer you are ever at risk of losing. -
07-09-2015, 09:01 PMDererkwaves after waves of mobs? That is fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewtskie
The main problem is that eventually everything needs to be added to the duty finder that can be understood and so people get buffed with echo and such though I can't ever see either Version of Alexander getting it which would be good.
But the duty finder is the main problem I spoke out against the op a bit I don't fully agree with him on his bigger issues but I can agree that stuff gets easier too fast.
I'm actually afraid that the Duty Finder will be the death of this game.
They should make it so you get more out of stuff if you do premades but less if you just use duty finder. Also the dungeon instances in 1.0 wer ideal they were a challenge and you had to work with others I wish they would look back on those and put more stuff like that in. -
07-09-2015, 09:04 PMDelilyBecause it's successful. If you do any research on the topic, the model used by FFXIV has been consistently the most successful model of gameplay. I can bring some examples. People constantly claim they want a more hardcore experience, which is why Wildstar was built. Look at what happened, it flopped. People also claim they want horizontal progression and sandboxes. The last attempt at that, Darkfall Online failed big time. EvE Online and Ultima Online are successful, but both are more niche games. Looking at the past 5 years, EvE topped out at 60,000 players online. That's fine for smaller companies like CCP, as they are serving their niche, but for companies like SE, with an incredibly developed and refined franchise such as FF, that's not reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
It's been pretty consistent since the first graphical MMOs, themepark raiding MMOs have had the largest draw, the type that most game companies are seeking to get. FFXIV is no different, the team looked at what has worked, and then added in their own "points of parity", such as heavy emphasis on story, the ability to switch jobs on one character, chocobo companions, etc. If you can demonstrate another form of gameplay that can draw in the numbers that WoW and FFXIV have, please do so. -
07-09-2015, 09:57 PMLineageRazorWhy on earth would you ever play Mega Man 2 after playing Mega Man? It's the same game!Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
Because its... fun? Apparently fun enough they got up to Mega Man 10, to say nothing of the various spin-off games.
Heavensward delivers new stories, new bosses, new areas, new abilities, all in the same general framework we've gotten used to. ARR was fun, Heavensward is more of the same fun. If you didn't find ARR to be fun, and were expecting Heavensward to turn the game inside out, I think you're expectations were... not the most reasonable. XD -
07-09-2015, 10:15 PMSkizzleofRagnarok
Like I keep saying I'm not sure if people intentionally choose to not read what I keep saying and randomly put words in my mouth.
I don't want another FFXI I want SE to Learn from what made FFXI so awesome in its unique way since FFXI was SE MMORPG Flagship.
Spare me the Tanaka failures he was forced to release an unfinished game that could have gone another path with more time eventhough he admitted there where flaws within his production team.
I think I've said multiple times if another MMORPG catches my attention i will leave this MMORPG.
I'm not attacking anyone here individually and out of respect I suggest you do the same. No one said Yoshi P make a new game what I'm saying is what is the point of playing recycled stuff? What is the point of these free nerfs and handouts that takes away the joy of someones invested time due to treadmill/vertical progression? I can't even enjoy my levels or gears since in 2 months you can be i190 instead of 180... -
07-09-2015, 10:17 PMCirgellon
Again, if you need convinced to play a video game because you aren't having fun, you're doing it wrong... There are millions of games out there. Go find one you like... It's not like your telling us you like the game but would also like improvements. Why are you even here?
This thread boils down to: "I dont like this video game that I choose to play. They should change it into a completely different game even though this game is 10 times more successful than the one I want it to be! I can't just find something I like because I need drama!" -
07-09-2015, 10:24 PMDelilyWhat is about FFXI that you are referring to? In both games, a single character can be every role, there was heavy emphasis on the story, and there was a level cap increase for every expansion. In terms of gear treadmills, FFXI was worse arguably worse because a single piece could take months and involve working with multiple linkshells. In terms of gear requirements, I distinctly remember DRKS needed an HQ Haubergeon in order to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
I'll be honest, your arguments remind me of the complaints of FFXIII. That game had all the elements of previous games in the series, but in a much stripped down/optimized fashion. Most of what FFXI had, FFXIV has as well, it's just done differently. -
07-09-2015, 10:43 PMChihayaThis is the very definition of vertical progressionQuote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
Outdated content - what does it matter? your i130 FCOB gear is now useless - why not let a larger population enjoy the story and content?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
You keep saying that but yet you seems to have this huge nostalgia of FFXI and wish to bring so much from FFXI making FFXIV more and more similar to FFXIQuote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
Then please spare us of the rant, you seems to against the fundamental of vertical progression that this game (and many other games) is built on. Also extremely stubborn and unable to see things from the otherside - rejecting everything and everyone that disagree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
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07-09-2015, 10:47 PMCGMidlanderIsn't that how it is for every game for most people?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
Very few people play the same game forever. -
07-09-2015, 10:51 PMKallera
I'm not convinced the op is for real if he is trotting out Legacy subscription as a reason he is owed horizontal progression.
There nothing wrong with not playing the game anymore. Think if it this way, not playing a game you don't like anymore isn't a waste, it allows you to find a better use of your time.
And that 130 gear from coil actually helped me a lot in the msq. You know, the part you have to do first? -
07-09-2015, 10:59 PMHyrist
SkizzleofRagnarok
Seeming providing our perspective and comparing the game within the context of your favorite MMO experience isn't convincing for you. Let's take a different approach.
What's your gaming history, besides just MMOs? Any favorite titles of Yore. Do not limit it to RPGs. I want to go deeper. Give us a preview of your gaming history a while. Rather than make examples off our experiences, or those outside, I wish to use examples within your own history.
I have a feeling that you approached this game with the wrong ideals, the wrong perspectives, and I hope to use your own experiences to correct that. Not for the sake of argument, but for the sake of giving you a new perspective so you may enjoy the game more. -
07-09-2015, 11:05 PMTThibi
To OP don't, instead uninstall the game and don't come back because if you're too uppity to play through the bad and the good and the nostalgic, and the game has no thrill for you then you don't need to play it. Don't just throw your hands up and plop your angry a%% on the forums to complain because you're a special snowflake that will melt if everything is not completely new for you.
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07-09-2015, 11:14 PMSkizzleofRagnarok
Hyrist: I only play RPGs/adventure games to be honest and the only MMORPG I dedicated my time to aside from this was FFXI. Played WoW, Wildstar, Rift, Star Wars,RF Online, Ragnarok online etc I gave alot of MMORPGs a chance but i always went back to FFXI cause it was the game for me I didnt like everything about it but i grew up with that game so that is why i hold it so dear because it gave me a different type of gameplay compared to the other MMORPGs I mentioned.
RPGS:
Chrono Trigger
Nier
Suikoden
Atelier Iris
Final Fantasy
Metal Gear
Castlevania
etc -
07-09-2015, 11:27 PMHyrist*nods*Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok
Interesting that you list Castlevania as an RPG though. Tell me which titles of Castlevania have you played and enjoyed?