Preliminary patch notes up.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

The new 'expert mode' dungeons are clearly Heavensward only, which is a slap in the face to current players who haven't purchased HW because they're still progressing. It's essentially a brick wall in their path, since from experience we know dungeons will give very little poetics tomes and roulettes tend to be the most reliable source of progression thanks to their bonuses.

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As far as Poetics go... the new Expert Roulette doesn't even give Poetics at all; it only gives 80 Law. Meanwhile, the High Level Roulette (all 2.x level 50 dungeons) gives 100 Poetics, and also EXP. Now that Poetics are the only tome tier that exists at level 50, all the previous Soldiery gifts will now turn to Poetics, including the "first-time" bonus. So, in truth, it looks like it won't be very difficult at all to earn Poetics before purchasing Heavensward (or, more crucially, as needed to raise your item level enough to finish the 2.55 story content).

That said, it would indeed be nice if you could run the High Level roulette without having unlocked all the dungeons in that long list.

I have another concern with the new actions.

All of the new actions are exclusive to Jobs, so classes don't get any? I was kinda expecting they'll balance this out with 3 on class then 2 on jobs but... this kinda further decrease the value of classes in Heavensward. I mean... WHM gets Stone III and Aero III? Doesn't that kinda beats the purpose of WHM being a job of increasing a Conjurer's Healing capability? (save for Holy, since that is a signature spell)

I do hope this doesn't mean they're totally abandoning classes. :(
I'm still wishing for second jobs for existing classes.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Oh... OH... I swear SE, if you're nerfing my Perfect Dodge I will be furious... I love trolling Titan/Nael/etc. with Perfect Dodge...

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since they also change manawall, i guess it'll either be a nerf to not effect certain skills or it's a buff we have no clue about. at least perfect dodge could use a little buff imo

Uh why Lustrate get concern? Something smelly gonna happen ಠ_ಠ

2 dungeons for expert roulette? WTF! Furthermore, if 3.1 comes and the new dungeons are the only ones in expert roulette, I am seriously going to be pissed. I put up with it in 2.3 and 2.4. It got to be too much in 2.5 as it became AKHM roulette and I left the game for a while.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

since they also change manawall, i guess it'll either be a nerf to not effect certain skills or it's a buff we have no clue about. at least perfect dodge could use a little buff imo

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I can't see them buffing it, it's just so OP in so many situations currently. Ignoring mechanics is just too fun though, when I first tested it on Landslide in story mode Titan while leveling, I knew I'd love the skill forever. Using it to keep DPS on enemies which do an AoE around them is just an amazing skill.

I guess I could hope for the same change Utsusemi got in XI; Reduced enmity when using it to avoid an attack. That would actually be in line with the two new skills I suppose.

wondering about the new bard song , warden's paeon ....maybe "lowers target's damage dealt by 10%" :o

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Originally Posted by polyphonica

Now that Poetics are the only tome tier that exists at level 50, all the previous Soldiery gifts will now turn to Poetics, including the "first-time" bonus.

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You obviously haven't seen the previous trends. Let me break it down.

First up, we had Philosophy and Mythology tomes. Remember those? This was changed to Mythology and Soldiery tomes. Older dungeons which used to grant Philo now gave Mythology, but at a far reduced rate. Next up, we get Poetics. All previous mythology is removed and replaced with soldiery rewards. These rewards are now very small (5 soldiery for Amdapor Keep). Now, keep following that trend as we add Law to the mix and replace all existing soldiery tomes with Poetics.

See my point yet? All previous soldiery gifts may indeed be Poetics tomes, but they won't be given commonly given. This has been the pattern since the start, and there's no reason they would change it up now. The current soldiery rewards have already been a stumbling block for some of my friends, who have instead relied on dungeon drops to carry them to the stage where they can obtain Poetics tomes and skip soldiery entirely.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

2 dungeons for expert roulette? WTF! Furthermore, if 3.1 comes and the new dungeons are the only ones in expert roulette, I am seriously going to be pissed. I put up with it in 2.3 and 2.4. It got to be too much in 2.5 as it became AKHM roulette and I left the game for a while.

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Prepare yourself for disappointment then. The only new dungeons are the Heavensward dungeons, meaning the ones in the new expert roulette will be from the expansion. I agree, it's a mess and it's abhorrent to existing players. I was never a fan of this cycle of new tomes overwriting the old ones and this just highlights how utterly ridiculous this whole charade is.

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Originally Posted by Nep_Nep

Oh neat the new job quests start right where they left off. Can pay Alberic a visit before walking off to ishgard.

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Screw that, if i was you, i'd get my spiky butt over to the first aetherite to avoid congestion :D

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Originally Posted by Tyrn

Maybe it's finally worth the time to remove the 143 sellgills friend requests I've gotten since I got too annoyed with the hassle of having to decline multiple times to get rid of one request.

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Or maybe not. Spammers don't use free trial accounts. From free trial restrictions:

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- The chat options /shout, /yell, and /tell cannot be used by Free Trial characters.

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Yet they're still spamming us on tells, besides friend requests, which means they're not using trials. Some players may have seen it as a way to stop spammers, but SE just simply wanted a more strict restriction on trials, that's all.

The crafting and gathering stuff really confuses me.
Especially all those new gathering actions xD I have the best stuff for MIN and BTN at the moment ...but only because gathering was so "easy." But we'll see!

Loving the spell speed change for HoT's. Det nerf is a bit sad, cos Im loving my MNK's high auto attacks already >.< But the skill speed buff is kinda good for everyone, and makes sense now their is more ways for people to gain tp.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Tomestone/high-level roulette stuff

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It's important to note:
1. We already know the roulette numbers for Tomestones, and those alone are pretty high. Trials roulette is throwing you something like 80; main story's giving a lot. We don't know the numbers for dungeons themselves, but it's not unreasonable to expect high values.
2. For new players - which is where the major Tomestone concerns exist - the main story is going to be throwing gear at them to get them geared up during the 2.1-2.55 events. Tomestones are less vital now for getting through content than they were previously.
3. Most tomestones for new players also actually came from the new player bonuses.

That said, I'm seriously all for allowing High Level roulette with only partial dungeon lists... although I suppose they don't want people skipping over dungeons because they're unpopular or whatever.

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Originally Posted by ZodiacBrave

I have another concern with the new actions.

All of the new actions are exclusive to Jobs, so classes don't get any? I was kinda expecting they'll balance this out with 3 on class then 2 on jobs but... this kinda further decrease the value of classes in Heavensward. I mean... WHM gets Stone III and Aero III? Doesn't that kinda beats the purpose of WHM being a job of increasing a Conjurer's Healing capability? (save for Holy, since that is a signature spell)

I do hope this doesn't mean they're totally abandoning classes. :(
I'm still wishing for second jobs for existing classes.

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DEvs said multiple times in the past that they're phasing out classes. Jobs only from now on, as it should have been from the very beginning >_>

Excited for the patch notes, still a lot of things are pretty unclear. Friday can't come soon enough!

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Players will now be rewarded experience points upon completing Duty Roulette: Main Scenario, Duty Roulette: Trials, or Duty Roulette: High Level prior to level 60. However, players who do not use duty roulette to join level 50 duties associated with the above roulettes will not receive experience points.

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So there's no point in running:

The Wanderer's Palace
Amdapor Keep
Pharos Sirius
Copperbell Mines (Hard)
Haukke Manor (Hard)
Brayflox's Longstop (Hard)
Halatali (Hard)
The Lost City of Amdapor
Hullbreaker Isle
The Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard)
The Stone Vigil (Hard)
Snowcloak
Sastasha (Hard)
The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Hard)
The Keeper of the Lake
The Wanderer's Palace (Hard)
Amdapor Keep (Hard)
Cape Westwind
A Relic Reborn: The Chimera
A Relic Reborn: The Hydra
Battle on the Big Bridge
The Dragon's Neck
The Bowl of Embers (Hard)
The Howling Eye (Hard)
The Navel (Hard)
Thornmarch (Hard)
The Whorleater (Hard)
The Striking Tree (Hard)
Akh Afah Amphitheatre (Hard)
Battle in the Big Keep
The Chrysalis
The Steps of Faith
and some others


We can't queue main, trial, or low level roulette with friends. If we want items from a certain dungeon/trial, sure you can run it but you get no experience from it. Or you can queue roulette and pray you get your choice and experience.

Seriously, who made this awful decision?

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Originally Posted by Seraphyna

We can't queue low level roulette with friends. If we want items from a certain dungeon/trial, sure you can run it but you get no experience from it. Or you can queue roulette and pray you get your choice and experience.

Seriously, who made this awful decision?

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Its to prevent powerleveling by speedrunning dungeons/trails you overgear. If they didn't do it, you would get a repeat of the DD/AV first room runs.

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The limit break for ranged physical DPS has been changed to an attack to all targets in a straight line before the caster.

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I really wonder how they're going to differentiate this from mage Limit Break...

Really hoping it'll work like various boss mechanics, where damage ends up being spread across hit players. Give it a potency below melee Limit Breaks, but above mages and it occupies a nice little spot. For a single target, you use the melee Limit Break for maximum damage. For a lot of adds (four+) you get more out of the mage Limit Break. For two or three enemies? That ranged Limit Break could pay off.

They made no mention of Armory relief which doesn't make me happy. No place to put things now let alone with new classes coming.

Do we know whether /playtime will include time from 1.0, I'm expecting no but hey.

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Originally Posted by shane239

Do we know whether /playtime will include time from 1.0, I'm expecting no but hey.

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Gods can you imagine? I already decided to never use it, if it counted 1.0 playtime too I'd have to run away from it screaming.

So much inuendo in the new auto translate sentences ...

First impressions: 1) Omnicrafting is dead past an increasingly irrelevant lv. 50. This seriously hampers my ability to provide for my tiny guild. I don't want to feel cornered into recuiting based solely upon numbers/skillsets or force others to invest in classes in which they have no interest. 2) To me, it looks like Lootmaster means I never get loot unless a) leader of the party, a role I abhor, or b) it is an all-FC party (an impossibility due to FC size and player region).

I prefer having a small FC that emphasizes friendship and family over base numbers (quality > quantity), but it looks like it's leaving little choice in the matter.

(random observation: they "nerf" every step of the Relic *except* the one that causes us the most consternation... KA-CHING!)

I look forward to virtually everything else, though.

imsoexcitedimsoexcitedimsoexcitedimsoexcitedimsoexcitedimsoexcitedimsoexcitedimsoexcitedimsoexcitedimsoexcitedimsoexcited

except we MNK's get Final heaven as our LB......mannn really? everyone else gets new ones and we get the same worn out one.......I hope it looks different.

Not everyone gets a new LB. WHM, PLD and BLM also retain the existing LBs.

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Originally Posted by Seraphyna

Stuff

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I may need to go back over the notes again. But I thought the exp was only removed if you were running it lowman/uncapped. Doesn't the exp still exist if you run it normally? Otherwise you would be correct in how this would be completely broken. Queue times would be unbearable, and the new players would suffer.

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2 dungeons for expert roulette? WTF! Furthermore, if 3.1 comes and the new dungeons are the only ones in expert roulette, I am seriously going to be pissed. I put up with it in 2.3 and 2.4. It got to be too much in 2.5 as it became AKHM roulette and I left the game for a while.

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Ya the way they been handling the expert/main roulette has been kind of bad. Only allowing for 3 dungeons in expert is a real pain. And now apparently there will only be 2? I'm confused because I thought we were getting several more dungeons. But to my point I wish they would leave the old experts in for at least awhile longer. That way there is more variety. And they do need to return high level back to how it was at the beginning, where it was something unlocked after just a couple dungeons. I have no idea why they locked it down to begin with. Maybe it was a mistake, and has been overlooked, because it's just very odd to have it setup this way.

And Yoshi did say in a interview they were considering low-level where you can queue with a friend. Did they change their minds?

Wait, where you getting there will only be 2 dungeons in expert roulette? The expansion is starting out with 8 new dungeons. Why are you thinking that only 2 of them are included in expert?

Likely due to the 2 ??? in the patch notes. It's a bit misleading if you ask me.

Also all the changes to zodiac are great, but what about materia? I figured they would change the acquisition of materia in some way. I mean I guess they are assuming sense most people aren't after it, that it would deflate considerably? I guess we'll have to see. Also I noticed the airship missions can get materia, I wonder if it will be able to pickup T4s. Only time will tell..

I think that people are reading into that way too much. Why on earth would they add 8 new dungeons, but only put 2 of them into the roulette?

I wish we heard something about what they're doing to existing skills in the patch notes <_< I'm impatient and don't want to wait a day to find out! I'm most curious about my two favorite defensive skills, Manawall and Perfect Dodge. As much as I love Manawall, I can totally see it being nerfed again. It's super powerful, and I love it for that. They could change it to have a shorter duration, only block one attack, limit the damage they can block instead of being 100% immunity, or something else. Same with Perfect Dodge, except they wouldn't reduce the duration, but they might increase it? Or maybe they're just changing both skills to cause a physical attack to completely miss instead of doing 0 damage? Whatever the changes are, I bet it's because PLDs are getting essentially the same skill, and they want to balance the existing skills with the new skill.

I'm wondering what WHMs will get instead of Proshell. I would expect every class to continue having the same number of traits. If they remove WHM's proshell, maybe they're giving something in return? Or maybe they're making Stoneskin II into a trait? Oooh, what if they remove Stoneskin II entirely and change Proshell to make Protect cast Stoneskin (or a Stoneskin-like effect that benefits from Enhanced Stoneskin and doesn't stack with Stoneskin) if cast while out of combat? That'd be nifty!

I guess speculation is worthless and we should just wait for the real patch notes in 1-2 days <_<


In other news, I don't see anything in the patch notes about gardens during maintenance. Do we run the risk of all our plants dying if we don't water them at ~4:45am(EST) on Thursday morning and/or ~5:15am(EST) on Friday due to the 24h maintenance? Being awake at even one of those times is really hard when you work 9-6...

Black mage new skills, all of them require a Blm to move less then ever before and give huge penalty for moving, they better be restoring man a wall to its former glory or blm will die.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I think that people are reading into that way too much. Why on earth would they add 8 new dungeons, but only put 2 of them into the roulette?

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I don't mean to be rude, but are you serious? It's literally written in the patch notes.
The other new ones are listened in the High Level Roulette.

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

Black mage new skills, all of them require a Blm to move less then ever before and give huge penalty for moving, they better be restoring man a wall to its former glory or blm will die.

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...that's a bit extreme, dont you think?


Only thing that really bothered me was the removal of EXP from unsynced dungeon play, but since the bosses still give EXP i guess it's not so bad. It would have been a bit silly to let a lv 60 BLM into darkhold as-is.


Most excited however, was the mention of some of the skills changing. Flare was on the list for BLM. I was really wondering how they were going to keep it viable in light of Enochain, since a 100% MP cost would mean nobody would ever use it past lv 50.

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Originally Posted by bettomendes

I don't mean to be rude, but are you serious? It's literally written in the patch notes.
The other new ones are listened in the High Level Roulette.

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Please show me where Expert Roulette literally lists two specific dungeons. You can't, because all it shows is a series of question marks. So, yes I'm serious. Again, why on earth would they bring out 8 brand new dungeons, and put 2 of them in roulette and leave the other 6 out?

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Please show me where Expert Roulette literally lists two specific dungeons. You can't, because all it shows is a series of question marks. So, yes I'm serious. Again, why on earth would they bring out 8 brand new dungeons, and put 2 of them in roulette and leave the other 6 out?

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Expert is the hardest dungeons, not all dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Verdan

Expert is the hardest dungeons, not all dungeons.

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You all are right. We know, without a doubt (based on question marks), that only 2 dungeons will be in expert roulette. Slow clap for you all.

It's possible that it's 2 dungeons because there's only 2 lines of of question marks. Don't forget too that 2.0 also only had 2 "expert" dungeons (WP and AK) at the time before more dungeons were made since both of those dungeons could only be done at the then level cap of 50.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

why on earth would they bring out 8 brand new dungeons, and put 2 of them in roulette and leave the other 6 out?

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Because the other 6 are leveling dungeons.

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Originally Posted by bettomendes

Because the other 6 are leveling dungeons.

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I guess that makes sense if that is how they did it when 2.0 first came out. I didn't join until the following January, and by that time there were far more than 2 dungeons in expert. Not to mention the fact that every time they add new dungeons (in more recent patches) they've all been included.

Oh well, whatever happens, happens I guess.

for ninjas in the thread we have some info from people at E3


Aeolian Edge: Now only applies full potency from rear. (320 rear, 280 back)
Smoke Screen: Reduces target's current enmity. Didn't actually use it, but seems straightforward.
Armor Crush: Combos after Gust Slash. Deals full potency from flank, less from rear. Extends Huton duration by 30 sec (max 70).
Shadewalker: Reduces target's enmity gain by 80% for about ten seconds. Does not work on tanks (I tried).
Duality: Your next attack hits twice. Couldn't really tell if it was working or not.
Dream Within a Dream: OGCD attack with a 90s CD.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Wait, where you getting there will only be 2 dungeons in expert roulette? The expansion is starting out with 8 new dungeons. Why are you thinking that only 2 of them are included in expert?

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Originally Posted by Drako

Likely due to the 2 ??? in the patch notes. It's a bit misleading if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I think that people are reading into that way too much. Why on earth would they add 8 new dungeons, but only put 2 of them into the roulette?

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No, they are likely reading into exactly as it is meant to be seen. There almost definitely will be only 2 dungeons that qualify for the expert roulette for the beginning of 3.0


When 2.0 started, you could literally only get tomestones from 2 dungeons. Amdapor Keep and Castrum Meridianum. I'm not 100% on if Wanderer's Palace actually did offer them right at the beginning (I think it didn't), but I know if they did the amount was so paltry that people just didn't run it. Then when WP got tomes (or existing tome counts increased to match AK) a little later, speed run WP's were the new thing.

There will be 8 dungeons on release of HW. 6 of them will probably be sub-60 and used for story-telling/leveling purposes.

They also specifically stated the only reason we got 3 dungeons per patch in the 2.x cycle was because 2 of them were always a "Hard mode" variant of an existing dungeon, where some or all of the layout had already been implemented in 1.0 and was just re-purposed to work in this game. They have nothing left to "Hard Mode", so it would be reasonable to not expect 3 new dungeons per patch in 3.x also. Maybe 2 is what we will get.


I mean a lot of what we had now was non-existent in August of 2013. Hell, all the way to December 2013 we didn't have much. Turn 5 twister mechanic was largely broken for months, nerfbats slapped the shit out of a few jobs (BRD/SMN speed runs were INSANE in 2.0) and we capped tomes from 1 dungeon every week, because AK was the only thing that offered anything worthwhile. Unless you still need Philosophy tomes. We didn't even have Extreme primals!! Even though, back then people were having a hard enough time on Titan HM I guess most of the playerbase didn't need them yet...

But I wouldn't dread the fact that there are only 2 expert roulette dungeons. Believe it or not, there are actually many other ways in the game to cap your tomes. I haven't run an expert roulette because I needed to in over half a year.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Don't forget too that 2.0 also only had 2 "expert" dungeons (WP and AK) at the time before more dungeons were made since both of those dungeons could only be done at the then level cap of 50.

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Still not 100% on WP offering tomes right at 2.0 release. They got them before 2.1 (I believe in the same .x5 patch that nerfed my Bard) but for a solid 1 1/2-2 months no one ran WP because it didnt have tomes(?) or they were just substantially less than AK. Either way, this game has come a long way since then, and even though there is only presumably 2 dungeons in Expert roulette, I am confident that SE is expanding on the myriad of other ways you can get tomestones in this game and we will still have a good variety of options.

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

Black mage new skills, all of them require a Blm to move less then ever before and give huge penalty for moving, they better be restoring man a wall to its former glory or blm will die.

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What? How are you blm'ing? Maybe you were moving a bit too much before if standing in place comes as such a lost to you. If you were moving for anything other than dodging a mechanic that couldn't be eaten by wall/ward, then you were doing it wrong. Standing in one spot and casting is literally all the job does.