Any idea what is in patch 2.57?

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

The game mechanic made them ignore aggro until they hit cannons. I tried get them, both had aggro on me but they will continue to go hit the cannons.

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The Biasts have a weird AI. They spawn aggroed to the cannon and are basically queued up to do an AoE attack on their target, but that requires them to be close enough, so even if you try to pull them they'll still go in to do the AoE since they're already set to do that attack. Stunning them cancels that out and they'll do their next attack, which should be on the tank if they attempted to pull them. If not they'll just go do another AoE on the cannon.

That's my experience with them anyway. When I did it I put down the pitch in their path to slow them down and did the stun shot the moment I saw the tank try and grab them, they then went straight for the tank and never got close to me. Probably more sensible to just have the tank pull them with stun.

I hope they buff the Mount drop rate for Levi and Ramuh Ex. Those buttheads are Stingy

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Originally Posted by Darkshaunz

It always struck me as unfortunate that the FFXIV community has such a hateful divide between the casual and hardcore playerbase(s). It probably doesn't help that hardcore players will forever be convinced that casual players (which are the majority of the playerbase) are out to "destroy" the game.

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It also doesn't help when casual players brand end game players as douche bags who think they are better than everyone, when 99% of the time that isn't the case. There is no hateful divide from what I have seen, only assumptions made by both playerbases.
The reason you see the end game players complaining about nerfs, is because there is very little difficult content in this game. So when SE takes away what little content we have, it gets a little annoying. Although to say that's destroying the game is an overstatement. This whole thing works both ways though.

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We just want to enjoy the game in our own way, and as far as I am concerned - I've never advocated any nerfs to any raids/dungeons. Most of us don't even care to post on forums and just play the game. However, it makes sense that as new content comes in - outdated content is made more accessible to those people who didn't have the opportunity. It's just sound business practice.

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I'm all for that, I'm sure I have said it before but I have no problems with echo, as it can be turned off. It's the actual nerfs like in SCOB T6/T7 that are just going too far in my opinion. The addition of echo + overgearing is more than enough to nerf raid content. There is zero point in my opinion in reducing mechanics even further because if they do, what is the point in running those dungeons? It's not for the gear if it is now outdated, and it's not for the challenge as that has been removed. So other than just to 'see it' I guess, which even then all you are experiencing is a watered down shell of the original if they nerf the mechanics. I do believe they way they locked the story out behind the coils was a bad move though, hopefully alexander fixes that.

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I've done all of the relic steps since the beginning, yet you don't see any relic owners getting up in arms when Yoshi-P announces nerfs in the relic steps. Is it so wrong to wish for a more egalitarian system of opportunities for people to experience end-game content?

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No reason to complain about it really. It isn't challenging content it is simply grindy content and the grind is there because it is easy, making it harder (longer is a better word) to get an end game worthwhile weapon. However as the end game shifts higher and higher it only makes sense to lesson the grind, no point making someone grind the same amount for a weapon that is absolute trash, decreasing difficulty is one thing, decreasing length and repetitiveness is another.

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Originally Posted by Jamein

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There's the good and bad to both sides. I've seen players who will berate others for wanting things to be nerfed/easier (you can probably even see some in this thread). You have people who cry "ELITISTS!!!" to said people. Though objectively, something like SoF is required for 3.0 expansion, and it's not a good tactic to make it difficult/different to the point that you have a really really poor clear rate (which honestly should be 100% or close to it for expansion gating)... Bad players or not, they're paying for the game and it's what keeps it ticking.

The other point is, where do you want that difficult content? I mean you have FCoB which is unchanged for the most part (and with echo being clickable), Savage SCoB. I can understand having low clear rates for end game content, but not so much when it comes to main scenario content (and I'm going to hate throwing this word out, but that's not "optional content" like people would say for relic or raids or whatever)

Also, when you mentioned SCoB, you'd have to realize that because of of those fights being so focused on mechanics, no amount of echo/overgearing would ever make the fight easier (infact would make it harder/have no impact) due to phase transitions...such as skipping a devour phase right after a honey or timing T7 phase transitions).

It's one of the reasons why I hate the SCoB fights so much; they can't get easier to natural progression (overgearing or introduction of echo) unless you make changes to the actual fight (which can and has ruined it). But when you're talking content costs like they mentioned in a live letter, developing content starts becoming counter productive when more than half of the playerbase can't even clear/get to it.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Though objectively, something like SoF is required for 3.0 expansion, and it's not a good tactic to make it difficult/different to the point that you have a really really poor clear rate (which honestly should be 100% or close to it for expansion gating)... Bad players or not, they're paying for the game and it's what keeps it ticking.

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I think this is exactly the part where people are getting upset. If you nerf Steps of Faith till you get 100% clear rate (this means people that know nothing about the fight but can still beat it). Then you have to do that for all of Heavensward too or "they will be gated out of the expansion they paid for". Which means the whole game just becomes a snoozefest.

This whole game is a catch 22. You put in mechanics, it makes the game fun but people fail more often. If you take away the mechanics (or the requirement to do them properly), the game is boring tank and spank with 100% clear rates, AKA Garuda HM.

Doubt they'll touch SoF. Titan HM was the same cockblock back in 2.0, people just had to deal with it until Echo came out or actually learn to play the game correctly for once.

It will be the same case here. Only thing they would do that is even feasible is removing the turtle, but that wouldn't even fix anything because most people already suck at using the cannons.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

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Thats why I believe you shouldn't put it at the end of the game where it's gating another game/expansion. I mean for the entirety of ARR, the main scenario fights have been a snoozefest. SoF does something different from the typical boss fight with XYZ mechanics. It requires eight players to be competent on their role and following mechanics. That's where the problem comes into play when we consider duty finder. And at least for famrfrit, I never see steps parties on PF ever fill up, and god forbid if you get a troll who will purposely go out of their way to waste your time or screw with mechanics, which is very easy on SoF in regards to hogging the cannons or misfiring the DK (and yes, I've seen these people as well in both DF and on my realm).

I mean, if they had kept the difficulty consistent or at least ramp up properly, there wouldn't be as much trouble. I'd love to say "how can you not do SoF when you've already done chyrsallis", but it's not really teh case because both encounters are different in presentation and required overall coordination and party composition (arguably you needed two tanks for the white-zone meteors....a second tank in SoF is more-or-less deadweight). It's easy to tell people to play better if you're coming from a perspective who does coil raids, but this is an encounter in main scenario which is aimed toward players who probably aren't interested in the raiding scene

Garuda HM became a tank and spank because we grossly overgear the fight at this point. Do it when it was current content or where everyone is wearing darklight/AF. It didn't even get a mechanical nerf. Doesn't quite help either that it's the best way to farm nexus/zodiac light, so there's never a shortage of players who both overgear it and who want to do it (while SoF lacks any real reason for people to clear it more than once)

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Originally Posted by Asierid

Doubt they'll touch SoF. Titan HM was the same cockblock back in 2.0, people just had to deal with it until Echo came out or actually learn to play the game correctly for once.

It will be the same case here. Only thing they would do that is even feasible is removing the turtle, but that wouldn't even fix anything because most people already suck at using the cannons.

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They could just buff cannon/DK damage and increase the add's hp or something. One thing I didn't like about the fight was how the first thing I was told by an NPC was that "arrows and sling will avail us little", giving us implications that majority of the damage would be coming from weaponry (which is definitely not the case if we still have to make up for at least 50% more hp in player damage). At least by doing that, you retain all the mechanics and trying to follow that would still give a better rate of success.

Would be nice to have a QOL improvement, like say dungeon drop rate increase for Relic. Currently it's been hell and i regret doing another Relic, lol
Nightmare mount increase would be nice perhaps also since all other ponies have been increased, though since they are more rare perhaps it is best to leave as is so not all have it ;)

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Originally Posted by Maero

Would be nice to have a QOL improvement, like say dungeon drop rate increase for Relic. Currently it's been hell and i regret doing another Relic, lol
Nightmare mount increase would be nice perhaps also since all other ponies have been increased, though since they are more rare perhaps it is best to leave as is so not all have it ;)

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Feel like it already has been... I did 20 Titan EX runs and saw 5 Nightmares and 2 Gulfaxiwhavers.

This isn't meant to be generalized to everyone, but sometimes the reason DF groups fail is because the experienced players just don't explain things well enough.

Yes, yes there are people who don't listen. There are also people who act like they listen, and then fail at the same thing over and over again. Honestly, I don't encounter too much of this.

My little brother wants to get the coil experience before Heavensward comes out and no one runs the content anymore. He is a huge final fantasy fan, and a good player, but has been stuck on Turn 5 (he only started playing a few months ago). He has a crazy work schedule so I don't get to see him too often, but this weekend I was able to group with him and I queued with him into Turn 5 in the duty finder while we were in a PSN party chat. I told him not to expect a win, but hopefully with some direction he would get to see most of the fight and begin learning it.

We queued in almost instantly (both as DPS, at about 12am CST....I was shocked..). Immediately I began inspecting people, and before I could get very far, 5 people (not including my brother) said it was their first time. No one had watched any videos. The one paladin who had beat it had some High Allagan gear, but no Dreadwyrm. I was the lone FCoB inhabitant.

The paladin was in voice chat with his friend, the warrior. So I left tanking mechanics out of my explanation. I broke the fight down into sections.

Healer-specific: Watch out for Death Sentence and Plummets. With Echo they won't kill the tanks if they don't mitigate, but they can still potentially take a ton of damage. Keep them alive! Raid AOE is pretty straight forward, but if everyone follows the mechanics there shouldn't be a ton of damage going out to anyone other than the tanks.

- Kill trash, then focus twintania. At 85% the MT will re-position Twintania to a different section of the arena. (We had no SMN and no SCH, so I acted as the "pet" for fireball soak since I had over 8k HP with echo and OT and I could soak alone if needed)
If you get a blue icon over your head, position it directly under Twintania. Anyone not caught inside of it needs to DPS the conflagration to break the person out.
If you get a red icon over your head, run it to the Chains #1 and Chains #2 people to split the damage. If there is a Conflagration on the ground and you have a red icon over your head, run it INTO the Conflagration.

1st attempt made it to divebombs. - i called out Pit in chat log for people at 54% so they knew when to stack

- Focus target Twintania from here on out. Position yourself in this Pit, as close to the wall as possible without killing yourself.
When you see a Green Icon, run out of the Pit to this spot, then immediately run back into the Pit. Repeat 2 more times.
DPS the small snakes until dead, then DPS the big snake until we have 3 more divebombs (we had plenty of DPS for the big snake to die without having 4 stacks). Repeat step 2.
Once all snakes are dead, stand in the 2nd necklace that dropped. (again, I left out tank instructions due to the PLD helping his friend in voice chat)

2nd attempt made it to twisters.

- Everyone needs to spread out and try to be as far away from the middle of the arena as possible.
When you see Twister on the cast bar, run in small circles that do not intersect with one of your partners, and DO NOT retrace your own steps while running.
When a dreadknight spawns in the middle, kill it ASAP.
Watch out for a Twister cast bar to happen DURING a dreadknight spawn. Don't tunnel your DPS! Mechanics are more important, we have the Echo on our side.

3rd attempt, Twisters not done properly. 4th attempt - Twisters messed up by one healer that killed the MT. PLD picked up Twin and we pushed to Hatch phase, but he dies eating Hatches because the other healer wasn't ready for the amount of damage the PLD was taking with Death Sentence/Hatch.

- Healer, lots of damage goes out on Tanks in final phase, be sure to keep them alive!
If you get targeted with Liquid Firex5, run to the outer edge of the arena and try to place them away from everyone in the group.

5th attempt - Twintania dies and I watch 6 people get their achievement for beating Turn 5 for the first time. I also get 6 commendations, because my brother and I queue together lol ^^


Yeah, I know you get the type that don't follow instructions, or troll purposely. But more often than not, what I see is..."watch a video" or "you don't know this fight? you're dumb" Maybe not everyone can type as fast as me, maybe not everyone can type at all (PSN, but bad excuse) but 10 minutes of explanation got my brother a Turn 5 kill because the people in the group did listen and did pay attention, and I like to think became better players early that morning. As far as the "communication" bit, it does go both ways, and often times I see veterans just as unwilling to help teach as I do idiots who can't learn.

Food for thought.

You got to love people that are against nerfing something that they wont be doing again.

http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/s...031230a113.jpg

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

This isn't meant to be generalized to everyone, but sometimes the reason DF groups fail is because the experienced players just don't explain things well enough.

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Yes, indeed just saw this happen yesterday in Thormarch HM. A tank said that he was new, but the other one just went in and pulled. Of course we wiped. Once it was explained, everything went without a hitch.

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

You got to love people that are against nerfing something that they wont be doing again.

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Not everyone is skipping trial roulette. Some of my friends are getting Steps almost every day...

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

This isn't meant to be generalized to everyone, but sometimes the reason DF groups fail is because the experienced players just don't explain things well enough.

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While that may be true, honestly it's not experienced players job to teach. If a player walks into DF coil and has no clue what the fight entails... how it works... anything about any of the mechanics... that's on them. It's not on the rest of us to teach them. If somebody there is willing to teach, more power to them. I do that quite often, with mixed success. But make no mistake, the group isn't failing because they didn't teach the person. They are failing because that person walked into end-game content without doing even the slightest bit of research, and expected to be carried.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

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Never said it was "your job to do it". That encompasses the problem with the community. If you feel like it's your job to help the people you are grouped with understand the fight better, then I raise the question who is the one who that shouldn't be playing a multiplayer game? Especially when you enter a roulette or a game mode where you should full and well know, it's very possible to encounter people who don't know what they are doing. No one runs Steps of Faith after they have beaten it unless they are particularly going in to try and help people win. Or helping a friend. Is it worth it to just eat a 30 min penalty to more people than take 3-4 mins to explain how something works and potentially beat it in 15?

Ya know, it may be hard to believe, but people were actually able to figure some of this stuff out without a video. I bet I know how they did too...


Working together.

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Originally Posted by DragonSlayer45

Dear Square Enix,

Please allow us to trade Soldiery gear for GC seals.

Sincerely, everyone.

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This is more important than getting Poetics uncapped.

Tired of those ugly armor pieces clogging my Armoury Chest.

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Originally Posted by Asierid

Doubt they'll touch SoF. Titan HM was the same cockblock back in 2.0, people just had to deal with it until Echo came out or actually learn to play the game correctly for once.

It will be the same case here. Only thing they would do that is even feasible is removing the turtle, but that wouldn't even fix anything because most people already suck at using the cannons.

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Hate to burst your bubble bub but..

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Thanks for your feedback.

Adjustments to ease the Steps of Faith trial are in the works, and we'll be announcing more information about the how and when soon enough!

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Originally Posted by Erendis

Not everyone is skipping trial roulette. Some of my friends are getting Steps almost every day...

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To them anything that might decrease the chance of 2-3 people leaving instantly would be a positive thing anyway.

My point is merely that the same complaining took place when the first coil turns got a nerf, people got mad cause their precious "clears" was going to be unique and precious anymore.

Some of my FC mates are hoping that the only adjustment made to Steps of Faith is the addition of a reset option. It's not that the duty is difficult, it's just extremely gimmicky. And if you've got people that refuse to perform their particular role in Steps (manning the cannons, using the snares properly, using the dragonkillers at the right time) then the hardest part of Steps is finding players that are willing to put in more effort than "I cast the spells that make the people fall down!"

A thought that just came to me, maybe they will uncap poetics? ;o

Here I am, hoping the wil fix the screw up they did last patch with Chocobo Racing, your stamina runs out faster so you can't sprint all the way to the finish line....oh but they forgot to adjust the NPCs....they still can sprint 24/7.

Some nerf on the final 3 steps of relic quest would be apreciated too...

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Originally Posted by Tannlore

Hate to burst your bubble bub but..

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Clearly you do not know how SE operates. The patch will be...

-We added one more cannon to Steps of Faith.

or

-We put giant arrows on the cannons in Steps of Faith.

Please look forward to it.

[QUOTE=RiceisNice;2956502]Thats why I believe you shouldn't put it at the end of the game where it's gating another game/expansion. I mean for the entirety of ARR, the main scenario fights have been a snoozefest. SoF does something different from the typical boss fight with XYZ mechanics. It requires eight players to be competent on their role and following mechanics. That's where the problem comes into play when we consider duty finder. And at least for famrfrit, I never see steps parties on PF ever fill up, and god forbid if you get a troll who will purposely go out of their way to waste your time or screw with mechanics, which is very easy on SoF in regards to hogging the cannons or misfiring the DK (and yes, I've seen these people as well in both DF and on my realm).

Rice here gets it, none of the difficulty in this game belongs in storyline clear content, not if it involves having access to paid for expansion content, this will possibly lose SE money, at least in the short term.

Because of the difficulty curve/conditioning involved in 1-50 fate leveling content none of the storyline should have involved anything more than the every 5 level job clear solo difficulty.

Players would have enjoyed this more anyway, not being hounded, kicked, or other wise berated for not skipping CSs, and being able to read storyline at their own pace.

The difficult content belongs elsewhere with relevant rewards, 10 years ago you could have gotten away with this, not now, this games content format doesn't do enough to encourage the team cooperation mentality until you are forced into it, hell I couldn't even be in a party with my GF "or" include my chocobo in the aforementioned job quests.

When people pay $40 for this expansion, and then for whatever reason cant clear storyline to access any of the content they paid for, it isn't going to end well, I expect this will effect new players more than existing ones.

Lazy players, bad players, entitled players, call them whatever you want, this isn't 2005, I don't like it any more than anyone else who doesn't like it, difficulty shouldn't be in storyline gating access to a $40 paid expansion in 2015.

Too many players simply do not have the required work ethic, grind patience, cooperative oriented mentality for this type of gate these days, they want to see something instantly for their money, even if it's just a new area.

Doesn't matter if SE realizes it now or later, I bet they nerf all of this team oriented storyline clear content to utter snoozefest to sell expansions eventually anyway.

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Originally Posted by Asierid

Clearly you do not know how SE operates. The patch will be...

-We added one more cannon to Steps of Faith.

or

-We put giant arrows on the cannons in Steps of Faith.

Please look forward to it.

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Nahh, it'll be a Vote Reset option for the trial. That way people can do more attempts without waiting so long.

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Originally Posted by Lamentations

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I'm not saying it doesn't belong in main scenario, I'm trying to say that they'd pick a hell of a time to decide to implement something with a curve like that at the end of main scenario. I mean honestly, if all of the main scenario fights were with scaling difficulty (even when they were current content and you were only in Ilvl90...because fights like levi HM are anything but difficult), I'd have a harder time defending a nerf to improve clear rates for SoF.

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Originally Posted by Jamein

The reason you see the end game players complaining about nerfs, is because there is very little difficult content in this game. So when SE takes away what little content we have, it gets a little annoying. Although to say that's destroying the game is an overstatement. This whole thing works both ways though.

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How long are the Coils out before they nerf them, though? It's not exactly taking away "difficult content" when the nerfs hit months after it came out and the people still toiling away at it have the benefit of Augmented/Dreadwyrm gear to soft-nerf it and are still barely clearing. Actual progression groups were basically done farming FCoB by the time the first set of real nerfs rolled about.

Those who're actually hardcore have been clearing and farming FCoB for a long time now, so coming here and QQing about nerfs that don't affect anything but their ability to say they've done something you haven't DOES make them douchebags.

The same thing applies to Steps of Fail. It's a main story requirement, mang. It didn't (or shouldn't have) given hardcore players pause, yet they all scurry out to lament it being adjusted so peeps who just want to be Heavensward-ready can advance. It's precisely stuff like this that creates the divide you're referencing. People asking for difficulty and struggle and "work" where it is neither needed nor desirable. Thankfully, I think SE know better than to pander to these people at this point.

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Originally Posted by Antanias

Probably just a 15% Echo for final coil.

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They could throw all caution to the wind and up it to 20%, just to make sure all three Coils match nice and pretty like for the HW release.

I really hope it's to make the Postmoogle Cap dyable.

This post was supposed to be funny, instead it's just another virtual pissing contest.

What's wrong with Steps of Faith, anyway?

SE is a company, not some benevolent entity that cares only for the Game Mechanics Master hardcore players. They want money, when players complain about something and nothing gets done, they stop spending money. When players are happy, they bring more players. SE made this game to appeal to everyone. Money is what matters to any long-standing company.

You hate sh**ty players, teach them how to be better players. Take time to explain a dungeon, instead of running to battle like a jackass. Grab a random new player, put them in your "oh-so-best" FC and teach them how to be as perfect as you are. Stop complaining like a bunch a high school mean girls, and do something about it.

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Originally Posted by Frigidchick

SE is a company, not some benevolent entity that cares only for the Game Mechanics Master hardcore players. They want money, when players complain about something and nothing gets done, they stop spending money. When players are happy, they bring more players. SE made this game to appeal to everyone. Money is what matters to any long-standing company.

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Correct, they need the game to appeal to everyone. Want to know a secret though? Constantly nerfing everything into the ground to appeal to casuals doesn't appeal to everyone. In fact it puts quite a few players off.

That's not to say casuals should be kicked to the curb, there should have been a difficulty curve in place that encouraged players to get progressively better at the game (in fact there kinda was). Instead SE settled on just having really easy content until Coil and opting to nerf everything into the ground, meaning "bad" players can just stay bad and get carried through everything. Why improve when SE will nerf it for you?

Hopefully the Alexander raid will do something about that. Let people build their confidence in the easy version before challenging the hard version, rather than the current situation which just pushed new players out of the "hardcore" content and just creates more vitriol in the community.

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Originally Posted by Frigidchick

You hate sh**ty players, teach them how to be better players. Take time to explain a dungeon, instead of running to battle like a jackass. Grab a random new player, put them in your "oh-so-best" FC and teach them how to be as perfect as you are. Stop complaining like a bunch a high school mean girls, and do something about it.

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Oh I've tried (my current static comprises of only 3 "experienced" players, actually, the rest are all fairly new and only started playing recently). 90% of the time I'll either get harassment as a result or just out right be ignored. There are the odd players who respond to suggestions well and actually improve, but the majority will hurl insults at you for daring to suggest they're doing something wrong by spamming their Full Thrust combo back to back and nothing else.

I wont deny that there are plenty of "good" players who are simply assholes, but don't act like the blame is solely on good players to teach the bad. So many bad players simply seem to want to stay bad and expect others to carry them through.

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Originally Posted by Ablongman

Those who're actually hardcore have been clearing and farming FCoB for a long time now, so coming here and QQing about nerfs that don't affect anything but their ability to say they've done something you haven't DOES make them douchebags.

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Sorry I'm going to pick on this comment here because I hear ones like it a lot. I don't think it makes someone a jerk to want to feel special for a little while because they worked hard for their prize. People wanting to "say they've done something others haven't" is a driving force for competition in games. SE realizes this and that's why there's some level of exclusivity for some prizes/content. There's a ton of content that isn't exclusive and very little content that is exclusive. I'm not against nerfs mind you because I like the idea that everyone will eventually get their chance to complete all the content but the very best stuff in the game should be reserved for the very best groups, at least for a time.

On a related note, I think pushing the game to either extreme of casual content anyone can clear or super hard content where you need to both have voice chat and be extremely picky about your groups (no noobs, 1-strike = kick) is wrong. The game needs both types of content and both types of players. Let's all try to get along and stop demonizing groups because they play differently than we do.

I love both the casual crowd AND the hardcore crowd. Both have redeeming qualities. I also love FFXIV. Positive energy for the win.

In regards to Step of Faith,

It emphasizes the need for communication and cooperation among party members. It is set up to where not one player can "be the hero" and save the day so to speak, and I like that. Unity is key in that mission, and if you don't have it, you lose. From start to finish everyone has to work together. My party cleared it and we had at least 2 of 8 members at no more than ilevel 96.
1 tank having aggro on adds (DPS with aggro pulling to tank so tank can grab), 1 healer healing the DPS that needed it (we had a phenomenal solo healer), and 4 DPS attacking the boss at all times unless the mechanic needed done . We got victory with a split second to spare before failing and having to restart, but we won.
Everyone must do their part, or it is "Duty Failed." Good move, Square Enix (even though it was as tough as I can describe, and had to do the whole trial 9 times to get it done), I like it and hope to see more of these mechanic oriented fights on the trials :)

Stop nerfing things to the ground.
I was very upset when they nerfed SCOB and added echo for no apparent reason.
Why were people able to clear it prior to nerfing it?
Because they put hard work and effort into learning the fight and overcoming hard mechanics.
Why should it be catered towards casuals who have no intent to improve themselves and at least watch the video and learn the fight?
It truly disgusts me how people expect and demand the content to be nerfed.

ALSO:

Remember that the Blessing of Light was stripped after the fight with Midgardsormr. No blessing, no Echo in the story from that point on.

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Originally Posted by SevarrienBladeson

ALSO:

Remember that the Blessing of Light was stripped after the fight with Midgardsormr. No blessing, no Echo in the story from that point on.

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Not true, I'm pretty sure the Echo is not the same as the Blessing of Light.

Thank you for that clarification. I had always thought the two to be connected. Either way though, it made for an interesting fight to not have the convenience of Echo.

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Originally Posted by SevarrienBladeson

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Completely agree. I got up to Steps of Faith finally tonight and had time for one try. It failed, and now I'm going to have to do the nerfed version instead of experiencing it in its original form if it gets nerfed tonight. I can see why the thing is a pain, why it wipes DF groups. The adds are insane if not dealt with efficiently even if people know the actual mechanics. Small messups with the adds can cause major problems and is what happened in my attempt.

But the fight has been cleared plenty up to this point and is not at all impossible, just a bit difficult. Why everything that is mildly difficult, even in the main storyline, has to be nerfed I do not understand. Allowing a forced reset is fine and would clear up many problems people have with the fight without nerfing it. Increased rewards would encourage people to stay. Those should be what happens, not nerfs.

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Originally Posted by SevarrienBladeson

ALSO:

Remember that the Blessing of Light was stripped after the fight with Midgardsormr. No blessing, no Echo in the story from that point on.

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I'm not the expert on lore or anything, but I've seen it said multiple times by others that the blessing and the Echo are two different things. I'm pretty sure I saw Moose say it too and he pretty much is the Lore guy for english speakers.

That said, the only reason we actually need the echo is for primals so they can't temper us fighting wise, the whole ressurrection/become stronger bit is mostly just for gameplay purposes.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

I'm not the expert on lore or anything, but I've seen it said multiple times by others that the blessing and the Echo are two different things. I'm pretty sure I saw Moose say it too and he pretty much is the Lore guy for english speakers.

That said, the only reason we actually need the echo is for primals so they can't temper us fighting wise, the whole ressurrection/become stronger bit is mostly just for gameplay purposes.

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I see. Either way, connected or not, to add Echo to Steps would be a foolish thing to do. It is the most powerful boss to that point of the storyline and it takes away the thrill of doing the fight without any aid by any buffs aside from skills and thus the thrill of a legit boss fight that isn't a Primal lol.

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Originally Posted by SevarrienBladeson

In regards to Step of Faith,

It emphasizes the need for communication and cooperation among party members. It is set up to where not one player can "be the hero" and save the day so to speak, and I like that. Unity is key in that mission, and if you don't have it, you lose. From start to finish everyone has to work together.

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This. I just did my first-ever run of it via DF, and we one-shot it. Why? Because the group communicated with each other on what needed to be done and when. A few things went wrong, but we were able to deal with them thanks to communication.

That's it. That's all that trial needs: people working together.