Healer should not dps in the dungeons?

I bet they were running a parse, seen your dps being higher (yes, holy is amazing) and got all butthurt.

The funny thing? Holy used to be stronger until Square nerfed it because WHM was doing far more DPS than a BLM. Then after frontlines came out, Square disabled Cleric Stance for PvP.

I'll DPS when i know the Tank is going to take minimal damage, such as on bosses or small Trash packs.

What drives me absolutely insane is the people who demand that i should be DPSing at ALL TIMES.
Yeah sure buddy, let me just stop healing the Tank who pulled 20 mobs onto himself so i can lay down some awesome 25 Potency AoEs.

TL;DR, People are idiots.

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Originally Posted by Arielyanna

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You're entitled to your opinion. However, if you are the type that stands around doing absolutely nothing but twiddling your thumbs when no healing needs to be done, I call you lazy (and no I'm not talking about SCOB or FCOB, those are different). You'll also never earn any commendations from me (metaphorically speaking as we're on different data centers).

In my opinion it's the healer choice by completing there role they are doing enough; however, if they want/feel they should include some dps that is fine as long as the healing is up to par. But its not something that should be a requirement nor expected.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

If anything, it's easier to dps a boss than it is a huge trash pull

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When im healing on my alt SCH, I get bored standing around doing nothing :P. <3 pairing with a WAR as SCH due to that bonus 20% on adlo shield (40% for crit adlos ^^). Crit Adlo+eye for an eye on big pulls, hit rouse for pet healing and get to dotting! XD

Even when Im on tank, for most bosses in dungeons ill switch to DPS accs and sword oath for the bosses. Turn 9 geared + 120/130 ilvl dps accs, makes the boss drop a lot faster.

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Originally Posted by Arielyanna

Flame me if you want... but I will continue to play the same way that served me well in XI and other MMO's here as a Healer.

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FFXI has a TOTALLY different combat style, so playing WHM the same as FFXI is not playing WHM in FFXIV well. Most every MMO has differences in healing, you need to change to adapt to each MMO to be able to properly utilize the role. Same with tanking, same with DPS.

Albeit there are some tips which work cross MMO. Better to approach it as being totally new and forget the previous MMO ^^

Just like using STR accs for NIN :P

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I was in the snowcloack today and some kind of bard started whining about that cause i did dps and spam holy in the aoe pulls. Nobody died in that whole 15min dungeon and just before the last boss i get kicked from the party because i did dps as whm. If i keep everybody alive do it really matter if i m doing dps? They just said "you should only heal because your role is healer if you wanna dps you should roll dps"

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I'd like to throw in my two cents on this. I was in a Haukke Manor HM dungeon last week and the moment I zoned in, I was playing a summoner and there was another one who was using Ifrit-egi.. I was using Garuda. The White Mage blurted something out like "It's good to see atleast one Summoner knows Ifrit Egi is better"

I just shrugged it off, but then he repeated it and started calling me a trash summoner so I had to be like.. "Excuse me?"
Never in my life would I thought I'd be harassed for being the one to use Garuda-egi.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

When im healing on my alt SCH, I get bored standing around doing nothing :P. <3 pairing with a WAR as SCH due to that bonus 20% on adlo shield (40% for crit adlos ^^). Crit Adlo+eye for an eye on big pulls, hit rouse for pet healing and get to dotting! XD

Even when Im on tank, for most bosses in dungeons ill switch to DPS accs and sword oath for the bosses. Turn 9 geared + 120/130 ilvl dps accs, makes the boss drop a lot faster.

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Oh definitely, if I have time to DoT I do. The tank I usually run with in a premade just has a propensity toward making me work really damn hard to keep him standing. It's all in good fun, though. :3

I use DPS acc/sword oath on PLD on bosses as well. It's amazing how much it actually affects the damage output.

I will join the parrot flock and say, "Ignore the naysayers and do what you think is appropriate given the particular situation." You know what you can and cannot do.

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Originally Posted by Arielyanna

-stuffz-

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Hey casual, it is clearly stated that everyone in the party was kept alive, so what is the problem?
It's trash dungeons, not coil - a lot of the time healers would just be standing around doing nothing for 75% of the fights if they are just healing.
Making the run go a bit faster, having the tank take less damage because the mob died faster or is stunned is bad?
Sometime I would swiftcast holy just to stun large pack of mobs to lessen damage on the tank.

Sounds like yer bad at yer job, horrible at MP control if you are going to run out of MP in trash dungeons or just too damn lazy.

News for you, FFXIV isn't FFXI *gasp* the battle system is different

and holy shit, why are you using STR accessories on NIN

Anyone else get the vibe that this thread just turned into a "you suck if you don't dps as a healer"?

More like people don't like healers to just stand around and do nothing.

It's like a SCH putting follow on someone and letting Eos/Selene do all the healing.
Yes everyone is alive, but you can do so much more but why aren't you.

It's not that you have to but you aren't putting the effort in to increase the effeciency of the group. It's like being annoyed when tanks or dps don't use cool downs... It's available to them but not required to beat most content. I mean I don't have to use berserk when I'm a warrior but seriously why not?

Also I don't think anyone is arguing that a SCH or WHM should dps at the exclusion of required healing but so much of the content in this game is so light on healing that it feels like it was almost designed to give healers the room to dps in inconsequential content like over geared 4 mans. Not like I'd kick a healer for standing around when there's no healing to be done, but I'll view them as not contributing as much to the group as the rest of the team. But that's not really much of an issue since I'm usually the one healing and making sure there are SCH dots all over the place.

If they weren't designed to contribute dps they wouldn't have been given damage spells at all pure and simple, let alone as many as they have, they are not just simply for leveling. From a design point of view it is obvious healers were meant to have dps moments.

Funny, how the CNJ questline talks about this:

http://i.imgur.com/ZWw1pnc.jpg

I'd forgotten that moment in the CNJ quest line. It is so appropriate to this thread. Love it. ;)

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Originally Posted by myahele

Funny, how the CNJ questline talks about this:

http://i.imgur.com/ZWw1pnc.jpg

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Complete the CNJ quest line and you see she is persuaded that her healing is bad, as she drawing from herself and not from the elements. Why bad things happened to her mother.

Plus you show her in the quest line that CNJ isnt just about healing but pewpew when needed also to protect those that need it.

Tip: DPS only if you are comfortable by it. I won't require YOU to do DPS if I tank, but at least keep us all alive. More power to you if you can do both sides =)

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Complete the CNJ quest line and you see she is persuaded that her healing is bad, as she drawing from herself and not from the elements. Why bad things happened to her mother.

Plus you show her in the quest line that CNJ isnt just about healing but pewpew when needed also to protect those that need it.

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Thanks, I was about to point out how that capture was taken out of context.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Anyone else get the vibe that this thread just turned into a "you suck if you don't dps as a healer"?

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So do you stand there doing nothing when no one needs healing then?

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

So do you stand there doing nothing when no one needs healing then?

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Have you not read other parts of this thread I've made other posts. Healer not my main job not even a secondary, if I want to dps I will stay on my dps job. I will throw out few spells but not spamming holy which seems like this thread turned into.

The fact that the quests related to that screenshot ultimately resolve into a need for occasional butt-kicking was why I said that it was appropriate. There are healers out there that just want to heal, bards out there who only want to DPS and never sing songs, and melees out there who don't want to cut into their DPS by using any of their utility abilities even when they are appropriate. Folks can choose to play their job however they want, sure, but they may not be playing their job to its full capacity. That's okay in most situations-- most groups are over-geared for most of the content in this game now. But if you've ever seen a boss enrage at 1% because the DPS was just a smidge too low, you'll know that you'll end up kicking yourself for not throwing in a little DPS when you could. Folks who main healers and want to do honestly difficult content at an appropriate item level can really help their parties by contributing all that they can, not just heals.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Have you not read other parts of this thread I've made other posts. Healer not my main job not even a secondary, if I want to dps I will stay on my dps job. I will throw out few spells but not spamming holy which seems like this thread turned into.

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I don't care if it's your main, second, or last priority; if you play a class with anyone other than your friends/FC, you should be trying to play it properly. The only reason you should be standing around not casting something is if you are worried about MP.

Please note, standing around... if nobody dies, you are not a BAD healer. You are simply a lazy one. You are the equivalent of the one-macro bard or monk. You do not deserve berating or party-kicking, you just don't deserve commendations.

The question is if you are ok with being just adequate. If so, then you can continue being just that. Just as there are Tanks that will never use CDs, DPS that don't use any of their cooldowns, there are healers that will never DPS.

And that's fine for most of the content in this game. When I heal there are situations where if I don't throw down some DPS I could potentially fall asleep. Healing is definitely the easiest job in 4-man content, no questions asked. However, there are situations outside of 4-man content where it's not so easy to do the switch between healing and DPS.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

Healing is definitely the easiest job in 4-man content, no questions asked

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Ehhhhh yes and no. Healing is easy if the party knows what it is doing overall. If people are new and/or people are under-geared, healing turns into a nightmare. So yes, it can be the easiest job, but it can also be the hardest. It swings wildly from one extreme to the other because it's the one job that's most dependent on the rest of the party doing what they need to do.

Tank undergeared = taking a shit-ton of damage
Tank new = not utilizing CDs for certain mechanics
DPS undergeared = mobs take 10 minutes to die
DPS standing in every AOE = welcome to MP starvation

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Originally Posted by Velox

Ehhhhh yes and no. Healing is easy if the party knows what it is doing overall. If people are new and/or people are under-geared, healing turns into a nightmare. So yes, it can be the easiest job, but it can also be the hardest. It swings wildly from one extreme to the other because it's the one job that's most dependent on the rest of the party doing what they need to do.

Tank undergeared = taking a shit-ton of damage
Tank new = not utilizing CDs for certain mechanics
DPS undergeared = mobs take 10 minutes to die
DPS standing in every AOE = welcome to MP starvation

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This all the way.

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Originally Posted by Arielyanna

Speaking as a Healer from FFXI and FFXIV,

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Hi.

This post made me cry a little inside.

Does WHM not get DPS skills? (Stone, Aero, Holy, Cleric Stance).
Not using these when the opportunity arises just means that you are not utilizing your toolkit.
If you're saying that healers got DPS capability to "finish a mob off" then you are kidding yourself.

If a healer (even one that pushes out high DPS) is pulling hate off the tank before the actual DPS classes are - then there is a bigger problem at hand, and in fact a healer who helps kill the mobs faster would actually be doing some good for the party, when a tank can't hold hate properly. It is in the healer's best interest to kill the stuff quick - as it is saving a lot of healing.

In addition to this, WHM's using Holy is not just DPS but it is also huge mitigation. 3x Stuns for a couple of seconds each is a huge amount of time for the trash mobs to not be hitting the tank.

Now the reason you would have been "kicked from an alliance" for a PW kill in FFXI was because casting spells on a mob gave the mob TP. Therefore the attacks you casted on the boss would want to be worth the TP feed.
This game does not have that mechanic.

I play a DPS, but as a DPS I also have supportive raid-wide skills (some glaring examples are things like Mantra, Goad, BRD songs etc). My job is a DPS, so you're saying that I shouldn't be using these skills because it isn't pushing my DPS?

Furthermore, if I am a Tank, would you expect me to NOT push as much damage as I could - or if a Paladin, NOT cast Stoneskin occasionally to help people out?

This concerns me, especially for the sake of your future raid buddies (since I am one to assume that you aren't actually doing raid content with this mentality).

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Originally Posted by Velox

Ehhhhh yes and no. Healing is easy if the party knows what it is doing overall. If people are new and/or people are under-geared, healing turns into a nightmare. So yes, it can be the easiest job, but it can also be the hardest. It swings wildly from one extreme to the other because it's the one job that's most dependent on the rest of the party doing what they need to do.

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"Adventurers such as yourself oft stand upon the front lines of battle. Owing to this, you are like to find yourself in many situations wherein a capacity for healing would be advantageous. Mind you, there is more to conjury than that.

By harnessing the power of earth, wind, and water, conjurers are also capable of weaving spells that wreak havoc.

In terms of sheer destructive power, conjury may pale in comparison to thaumaturgy, but its capacity to defend one against aggression more than compensates for this relative shortcoming.

More than simple healers, yet not true dealers of destruction, conjurers realize their full potential when they employ their powers in support of others. This, my dear adventurer, is what it means to be one of us."

- E-Sumi-Yan, Guildmaster of the Stillglade Fane. -

In other words, you do everything and anything you can to help the party. If that means adding some DPS here and there, it's part of the job.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

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I think you replied to the wrong person. :P
That being said, your post is 100% correct.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Have you not read other parts of this thread I've made other posts. Healer not my main job not even a secondary, if I want to dps I will stay on my dps job. I will throw out few spells but not spamming holy which seems like this thread turned into.

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You're telling people to do the minimum? I see laziness.

I am fairly sure that every way of expressing:

Yes, you should DPS/No, you shouldn't have to

has been expressed. Unless you are all bored and waiting for maintenance to be over. In that case....me too and Merry Christmas.

As (hopefully) everyone has already said OP you were doing the right thing.

WHMs and SCHs who only heal, never help the group by doing damage when there's clear room for it and instead just stand around waiting for someone to take a bit of damage are in my eyes on the level of PLDs and WARs who just autoattack or sheathe their weapons after they have enmity lead and only use their enmity/dps combos in short bursts to keep their enmity lead whenever it looks like a DPS might catch up (something you never see PLDs and WARs do because it's incredibly lazy and makes fights take much longer than they need to). They might be "just doing their job" but I sure as hell wouldn't be in a hurry to be in a party with them again.

The only time I get annoyed with WHM dpsing is when their damage interferes with their healing. Like holy for example. If you spam it so much that your MP drops to 400 or less and you're unable to keep us alive because of that... Yeah, then we'd have a problem. I've seen that happen before too.

If you're not running out of MP and keeping people alive though, I don't see an issue. I'm always popping DOTs and such as a SCH, but I guess people generally expect SCH to be doing damage more than a WHM.

Excellent job Sunako, players like you who can take that extra mile to make a party more exciting are what we like to come across most. I usually play as SMN and do healing when necessary as well.

As a SCH, I don't DPS all the time, I feel out the group first, if the tank is soft or under-geared, or the DPS are trigger happy and don't wait for the tank to grab hate, then you will have to focus on healing, but many groups now don't have this problem, and you should feel free to DPS as you like. I don't think it should be expected (just my opinion) that a healer DPS, but as long as no one is dying or having difficulties, its most welcome behavior. But don't sacrifice heals if you feel that you cant keep up with the damage. Ive had people happy that I dps, and people that get pissed. That's life. You are paying to play the game just like everyone else is, so dps or don't. You get more brownie points if you DPS though, I wouldn't ever hold it against a healer if they didn't. It is what it is.

He was probably mad because you were doing more dps than him lol.

I always dps in Cleric Stance as a SCH as much as possible. Healers that stance dance and keep everyone alive are pro. You're doing it right :)

I could understand if you were letting people die because you were dpsing, but I doubt any healers that do dps are allowing that to happen.

Since I have an Elezen WHM at 50 and all my experience from that, If a healer doesn't DPS...then it MUST either be because of undergeared tanks or DPS that constantly take aggro again and again...or it's a MRD/WAR class.

And even in these instances, I still usually DPS or atleast sleep the addons so I can still help out on the adds pre-Holy and post-Holy, I just use Holy minus turning on CS(due to the fact that it's possibly too dangerous for a squishy tank). Those party members kicking you for being support as a WHM and SCH should be should be ashamed of themselves and I hope to never play with them.

Depends. I'm not going to DPS on WHM or SCH if the tank is doing repeated pulls one after the other with big groups and not many breaks in between, I may be helping to kill everything faster, but I'm also draining the resources I could be using sooner. Usually I throw up Aero and Aero 2, and Swfitcast Holy on big groups and that's about it. If no damage is coming from the target, then I'll go ahead and Regen tank and DPS till a certain HP amount.

Healers SHOULD dps as long as they can handle the healing while doing so.

That bard was a clown.

The problem here is, and it happens pretty much every single time, some guy just says "kick this person please" and everyone votes yes without even thinking twice or knowing why.

You probably found the typical kid who wants some attention and got poor sense of humour and doesn't want to dps and let eos heal.

I main Sch and at this stage I only dps and let eos heal I do not heal unless lustrate is needed for mt.

You will always find one out there... I usually just report them due to the fact it end up in abuse.