4 guildleves in less than 1 hour=1/3rd of the way from 49-50?

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Originally Posted by Murugan

No that's not the way guildleves work. I've tried doing them on 4-5 star, even if I beat them in the same amount of time I get roughly the same xp. That's my other complaint about guildleves and has been since launch, I like doing things at a challenge/above my level but the game doesn't do a very good job at rewarding you for this at the moment.

Before the problem we ran into was that you would reach a point where mobs were 10 ranks above your level, and so doing them on any higher difficulty would be pointless as you get no more XP. Now with 90% of the xp deriving from the completion time the little bonus you get due to difficulty is simply not worth trying higher level mobs in most cases.

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Alright man, I'll accept that as a viable argument. I guess in that case, rather than nerfing the speed bonus, what they could do is add (or increase if it even exists) a bonus to the difference in player/avg.party rank versus the levequest difficulty. It would offset the speed bonus since u can't really solo a challenging leve in a short amount of time.

Personally, I like to do leves on "hard mode" anyways, and since you've shown that there's no difference in reward between hard and easy modes, then, yes, I would like to be rewarded more. If you start a petition for it, I'll back you.

3 star give same bonus SP as 4/5? dang, why did I do the 5 star yesterday.....

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Originally Posted by Murugan

No way, casuals doing all their guildleves every reset would likely reach 50 in a month, or a little over. Anyone doing anything outside of guildleves would reach it inside of a month easily.

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With the new system? Assuming you actually do get 35-45k a pop per leve reset, it might be possible now. Definitely not before, though.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Also it was never "on schedule" for people who play much longer to still reach cap at the same rate as those who play significantly less, at least not since Tanaka and the Surplus system. Not that it matters because that isn't the case, and (hopefully) never will be the case. I don't know if you are trying to imply that XP while grouping needs to be nerfed, because that is ridiculous.

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Not implying party SP be nerfed at all. I'm saying leve SP gains are at a good spot right now, which was my whole argument to begin with. Party SP gains are MUCH higher per hour over the course of the 36 hours it takes for leves to reset. Therefore, hardcore players will level far faster than casuals, but casuals still have a chance to see endgame after some time unlike a lot of other Asian MMO's where casuals never do.

I think that's a great thing.

As far as higher difficulty settings during leves, I noticed that the rewards are the same but mob SP is a lot higher. For example, I was getting 250 SP per mob at 3 stars with Aspect on. At 1 star, I was only getting around 150.

Also, just a point to make:
SE probably doesn't want any of the few of us that do login and play everyday, or honestly, probably even more so the new people who log in and don't have friends yet, to sit around shouting for a party, not find one and log the heck back out. (FFXI anyone???). So for now, the BEST way for SE to encourage EVERYONE to level is to give a decent SP bonus on leves, but make party-grind style SPing more profitable. That way, while our communities are still VERY small, people can rank up without having to find 4-8 people to go with them.

Also, we are not going to be rank 50 forever. There WILL be a rank increase at some point (most likely cap will be at least rank 75). Now, lets assume that the amount of SP needed to get to each rank keeps growing. That means that rank 50 is probably not even the Mid-point to the amount of SP your character will need to earn to be considered capped at the one day rank. So rank 50 is still mid-rank and shouldn't take much longer than 1-2 months to hit via leves IF you look at this in a long-term plan way.

Also, just like grinding a craft post rank 45+ sucks since there aren't rank 55+ synths in game yet, you're leves are easy-mode when you're rank 45+ battleclass. They are meant to be done PRE-rank 45.

Could they make leves harder but with same sp? Yes. Could they make leves more entertaining? Yes. Could they adjust the completion bonuses awarded to factor in not only the speed of completion but the difficulty? Yes. Is party grinding anymore challenging or entertaining? (I personally believe no, but to each his own). Do guildleves need immediate attention when the game has so many other needs? NO.

SE nerfs Guildleve SP, people whine that guildleves suck.

SE responds by increasing SP from guildleves, people whine that it's too easy for casuals.

MAKE UP YOUR FRIGGIN' MINDS.

Ya it's not broken at all. It's for those who prefer solo. Since you don't get that massive bonus at the end if you're just sharing a leve, there's no incentive to "grind" leves as people had done before. Leves are there for solo content and what has been presented in the OP is fine by me. The argument for nerfing leve SP is the same argument for abolishing anima. Those systems aren't meant to address the needs of hardcore players and you don't have to use them. They are fine as is, especially anima now that you can have three favored destinations, cities only cost 2-3 Anima depending on where you are, and you can set your home point anywhere.

Leves can supplement the SP, while grinding is still the main focus. SP is going to be significantly more when they eventually raise the level cap as well. I'd be hesitant to be calling for SP nerfs, especially for those casual players who have limited time during the weekday and are weekend warriors.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

SE nerfs Guildleve SP, people whine that guildleves suck.

SE responds by increasing SP from guildleves, people whine that it's too easy for casuals.

MAKE UP YOUR FRIGGIN' MINDS.

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I agree with this comment, but people have to take into account that whatever change is implemented some people are going to have a problem with it because they were enjoying certain aspects of the system before.

Some mages complain about patch 1.18 because they can't solo the buffalo, while others complain about SP on guildleves. Now if the same person is making contradictory statements I understand, but in the end I have to agree with this statement because it would help if people understood why certain changes took place. While changes do occur that don't take into account certain things, for example, when static SP gains were granted after killing targets. Before that patch there was no incentive to fight coblyns because you needed a long battle in order to accrue a decent amount of "ticks" to your SP due to the random nature of the first SP system. After the patch, coblyns were the only reasonable thing to grind on. They were not only a great source of ore for battlecraft classes (could probably get more ore/hr than a mining class) but they died so quickly and granted so much SP that there was no incentive to fight anything else. There wasn't even an incentive to party because the SP gains were so lucrative. This, for the sake of game balance, was definitely a necessary fix.

Unfortunately for the OP, leves aren't the only source of SP and having only eight per cycle (which he burned through only four in less than an hour) will not satiate a hardcore's need for progress. It will help a parent, who has kids, to hop on for a short period and maintain a decent amount of progress with the friends they have made in the game. They may not be able to multiclass like the rest of us, but they can still stay within the optimum party level range.

Edit: Updated actual leve count as written in the OP

Antlings 24-29 easy 15-20k an hour with a party of 4-6.
Raptors 43-50 easy 15-20k (Can be more with good party) with 5-7 people.
Toto-Rak i'm hearing is ~15k an hour around 32.
Could probably do tree speak efts from 35-38/39 with 5-6 people for good sp/hr.
Then mountain pieste and leves in between efts and raptors.

Partying isn't bad, it's just grinding spots aren't as well known as they were in 11.

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Originally Posted by EsEs

Antlings 24-29 easy 15-20k an hour with a party of 4-6.
Raptors 43-50 easy 15-20k (Can be more with good party) with 5-7 people.
Toto-Rak i'm hearing is ~15k an hour around 32.
Could probably do tree speak efts from 35-38/39 with 5-6 people for good sp/hr.
Then mountain pieste and leves in between efts and raptors.

Partying isn't bad, it's just grinding spots aren't as well known as they were in 11.

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30-35 Amalj'aa near camp broken water will get you up to 30k an hour with a full PT.

PTing is awesome. We need more people to make it **faaabulous*** though.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

So I got some guildleves to test them out after the patch. 2 in Halatali, and 2 in Broken Water. I equip 2 skills, a basic attack and an aoe. I proceed to do them all on 3 stars with guardian's aspect, and get 35k xp in less than an hour.

That is more xp than most get in even a very good XP party, and all I had to do was use 2 skills. It posed no challenge at all, and when I tried 4 stars on the 5th I found I got less XP because of how the system rewards speed (seems imbalanced with difficulty settings). I know that XP chains will help balance this, but come on why so heavily encourage everyone regardless of whether they like to(or have to) play solo to do this?

I thought guildleves were no longer a (the) central feature of this game... hurry up and fix partying so I don't have to do this crap anymore.

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keep this in perspective with how long it will take to rank from 74-75 when the time comes. you may be facing around 400,000-500,000 sp. 50 is considered a rather low rank when considering true endgame.

leve gains are far too much end of story .

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Originally Posted by Boreil

leve gains are far too much end of story .

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really cause sp per hour is similar to grinding sp per hour, seems like a fair way to do it.

Just to reiterate the OP's argument. This thread is not about "Leves give too much SP." It's about the fact that you get the same amount of SP for doing an easy leve, just because it's fast, as you would for doing a challenging leve. The reward is the same for taking it easy as it is for taking on a challenge.

Right now the mechanic seems to only function on 2 variables: Completion speed, and difficulty setting. What this equation is missing is a variable based on the difference in player level and levequest difficulty, just as there is SP variable based on the difference in player rank versus mob rank.

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Originally Posted by Serio

Just to reiterate the OP's argument. This thread is not about "Leves give too much SP." It's about the fact that you get the same amount of SP for doing an easy leve, just because it's fast, as you would for doing a challenging leve. The reward is the same for taking it easy as it is for taking on a challenge.

Right now the mechanic seems to only function on 2 variables: Completion speed, and difficulty setting. What this equation is missing is a variable based on the difference in player level and levequest difficulty, just as there is SP variable based on the difference in player rank versus mob rank.

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Quoting for emphasis.

Well said.

Are ya'll still "discussing" this...here let me say it again...THIS GAME I NOT COMPLETE YET!!! Chances are the dev's know things are wrong...they've read the forums...can we stop kicking the dead horse? Cause chances are this corpse is so decayed I'm worried ya'll will kick right through it...and I don't like the stench of dead animal....kkthnxbai :D

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Originally Posted by Serio

Just to reiterate the OP's argument. This thread is not about "Leves give too much SP." It's about the fact that you get the same amount of SP for doing an easy leve, just because it's fast, as you would for doing a challenging leve. The reward is the same for taking it easy as it is for taking on a challenge.

Right now the mechanic seems to only function on 2 variables: Completion speed, and difficulty setting. What this equation is missing is a variable based on the difference in player level and levequest difficulty, just as there is SP variable based on the difference in player rank versus mob rank.

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They should be adjusted to award higher difficulty, sure. The point is it is not a pressing matter like the OP makes it out to be. As far as the current state of the game goes, the leves are in a perfect place.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

So I got some guildleves to test them out after the patch. 2 in Halatali, and 2 in Broken Water. I equip 2 skills, a basic attack and an aoe. I proceed to do them all on 3 stars with guardian's aspect, and get 35k xp in less than an hour.

That is more xp than most get in even a very good XP party, and all I had to do was use 2 skills. It posed no challenge at all, and when I tried 4 stars on the 5th I found I got less XP because of how the system rewards speed (seems imbalanced with difficulty settings). I know that XP chains will help balance this, but come on why so heavily encourage everyone regardless of whether they like to(or have to) play solo to do this?

I thought guildleves were no longer a (the) central feature of this game... hurry up and fix partying so I don't have to do this crap anymore.

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Color-coded for emphasis.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Just to reiterate the OP's argument. This thread is not about "Leves give too much SP." It's about the fact that you get the same amount of SP for doing an easy leve, just because it's fast, as you would for doing a challenging leve. The reward is the same for taking it easy as it is for taking on a challenge.

Right now the mechanic seems to only function on 2 variables: Completion speed, and difficulty setting. What this equation is missing is a variable based on the difference in player level and levequest difficulty, just as there is SP variable based on the difference in player rank versus mob rank.

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If this was the original intent then I'd retract my statement. I do need to fix the eight leves I had said before and I'll make sure to include the change in my edit. I don't disagree with the above statement, but what I've quoted here does not "reiterate" the argument, as the OP is still the same and suggests what Nocits Umbra has pointed out.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

They should be adjusted to award higher difficulty, sure. The point is it is not a pressing matter like the OP makes it out to be. As far as the current state of the game goes, the leves are in a perfect place.

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I'd suggest replacing the OP or include the quote above into the OP as I'm sure a lot of people would welcome this change and agree with it.

lv20 leves still suck big time =(

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Originally Posted by Deceptistar

lv20 leves still suck big time =(

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i was actually doing pretty good on rank 20 leves now. i Got rank 19-20 in three leves and it took me like 20 mins so if i would have stayed with it i probably could of hit 3 ranks in a hour. I was doing leves for marks, thats why i didnt stick with it.

Btw @40k per leve reset its almost exactly 2 months to go from 23->50 (add time it takes you to reach 23 to the 2 months for 1-50)

Its quicker than Yoshida wants actually, so I'd say leves are good as they currently are.

EXP partys gaining 30k / hr takes 49 hours from 23->50 ^^;; Can be done in week and a half? gogo

Sp on solo guildleves is great now.

R40, 5 stars, aspect, got speed bonus to boot yielded ~7600 sp bonus at the end.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Sp on solo guildleves is great now.

R40, 5 stars, aspect, got speed bonus to boot yielded ~7600 sp bonus at the end.

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The irony is that defense guildleves are by far the best SP now, go Gridania! (as long as you don't mess up and die on your first attempt)