The Abonimation Known as WTFWHM

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

I gear-check players when I see high HP loss. A player is a WTFWHM if they cast Medica II and then DPS for 30 seconds to the detriment of the party. The WTFWHM is someone who doesn't care about doing the Job, and is there just to farm something faster.

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In that sense, you can WTF-anything

a WTFBLM keeps nuking even though tank's struggling, kiting, using virus for no reason
a WTFBRD for keeping ballad/paeon up for no reason. Doing terrible DPS and use "bards do lowest DPS" as a reason. Ninja pulling in any encounter by auto attacking. Kiting as result while still doing their damage. Not doing songs because it lowers their DPS (even Foe)
a WTF-anydpsclass for constantly dying
a WTFTANK you can find the list here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2550391

Just because some players play a certain like a WTF-something doesn't warrant a topic specifically aimed for it. Scholars can be just as guilty for in the healer department, especially with auto-eos.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

a WTFBLM... using virus for no reason

...auto-eos.

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It burns me when BLMs and WHMs cast Virus for no damned reason and it renders a boss immune to (Super) Virus during a mechanic for which it would have been useful.

Auto-Eos SCHs need help. If they already know better and insist on using Sic, they are simply bad and lazy.

Dammit, I'm getting sucked into another WTF tangent! :P

Well, I'm not saying that White Mages and Black Mages shouldn't be using Virus at all. But properly, if anything. Virusing adds for example is a big plus. Most adds in most encounters only deal physical damage. Or even some tank killing mechanics in case of whatever scenario that prevents the scholar from doing it (or simply keeps forgetting). But only limited to physical ones like Revelation in T12 - Yes, the big explosion from a Michael Bay movie is physical damage.

It's safe to assume the following rule of thumb:
Scholar is the only one virusing the boss
White Mage is the only one virusing adds
Whoever still has virus should adapt accordingly or discuss it with the healers

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

When I tank main Scenario and most high levels, I use sword oath +DPS accs for the bosses, back to tank accs and shield for large pulls. But im a t9 geared tank with full 110 DPS accs from my main MNK with still close to 7k HP with DPS accs. So I pushout a healthy 330-350 DPS on bosses which speeds it up quite a decent amount. For main scenario, I stay in sword oath 100%, and still maintain mob enmity.

If you overgear the content by a substantial amount, theres no reason not to switch to DPS accs and sword oath/drop defiance.

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*cough* and if you overgear the damage dealers by a substantial amount. Trying to hold aggro against an equally or higher geared BLM who keeps getting crits or procs left and right, without Defiance/Shield Oath?

I hate Fluid Aura too. I think I hate it more on my Monk than on my tanks. Like seriously making me lose Greased Lightning I just want to stab them.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

I gear-check players when I see high HP loss. A player is a WTFWHM if they cast Medica II and then DPS for 30 seconds to the detriment of the party. The WTFWHM is someone who doesn't care about doing the Job, and is there just to farm something faster.

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I'm sorry, but what? I don't quiet get what you are saying. If I cast Medica II and then DPS for 30 seconds and my team is still a live and healthy, what is the issue?

The biggest problem with all of this argument is that people play to put up numbers: DPS put up red numbers, and healers put up green. But this simply isn't the case, and shouldn't be for any content not involving a raid boss (and sometimes not even then). First of all healers are *not* HPS bots... and anyone actually involved in playing a video game should be ... ya know, engaged. Just like it make sense to not stand in fire (because in other games fire usually kills you), a healer should do their best to be proactive... when I go into a dungeon I Holy each group of monsters at least 3 times, becasue I know how Stun and other debuff duration works. I'm in Cleric Stance while I use Holy because the monsters are stunned means the tank doesn't take damage. If I have to heal someone an I just turned Cleric Stance on and someone needs to be healed, I'll cast Stoneskin becasue I know that Stoneskin isn't affected by my stats. I know that if a tank doesn't have to move and fighting a boss that uses Disease, I can just Divine Seal + Regen and perhaps Medica2 up so I can save casting an Esuna. When I run a dungeon a second time I use forsight to know whats coming and how much mana I'll need. I also know that if the tank pulls the next group of mobs and I want to regain mana and doesn't need to be healed, I can just stand there and get "out of combat" regen. I make frequent use of HQ X-Ethers and HQ X-Mind pots, especally with Presence of Mind. I keep the tank targetted when I spam Holy so i can Benediction and keep spamming it, I keep bosses on Focus Target so i know when to Virus or Surecast a Medica. I use HQ 2 star food in dungeons and raids, sometimes better. I use Fluid Aura on a monster no one is attacking to save the tank 6 seconds of damage, or on mobs that don't get knockback, or to disrupt a nasty move or move a monster out of a buff zone. In low level dungeons I attack the mobs in the order the tank marks them. I know how my abilites work, what they're limitations are, and I practice things until I can get it right.

However, none of things are the mark of a good healer, they are the mark of a bad player. A WHM who DPS's like a bad DPS isn't and different than a BLM or NIN who DPS's bad.
A bad healer is also going to be a bad tank, or a bad DPS.

I like this topic.

As a WHM myself, I'm a WTFWHM to the dps, but not for any reasons listed above.

- In a dungeon, DPS pulls or auto-run into mobs.
- DPS begin to kite with range attacks, then eventually start running back towards the entrance.
- Tank grabs a few mobs.
- I stay with tank.
- The DPS that ran and died yells WTFWHM.

Personally, I don't chase a DPS to heal them. They should be mindful. I'll only chase the tank and other healer. I don't ignore my raise duty, though.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I like this topic.

As a WHM myself, I'm a WTFWHM to the dps, but not for any reasons listed above.

- In a dungeon, DPS pulls or auto-run into mobs.
- DPS begin to kite with range attacks, then eventually start running back towards the entrance.
- Tank grabs a few mobs.
- I stay with tank.
- The DPS that ran and died yells WTFWHM.

Personally, I don't chase a DPS to heal them. They should be mindful. I'll only chase the tank and other healer. I don't ignore my raise duty, though.

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No-where is chasing down random DPS for heals more apparent than in the CT series of raids. That random guy that decides to go full Rambo. I'm not chasing you Rambo to the opposite side of the arena just to stop you from dying when my party members who had the sense to stick together demand my attention xD

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Originally Posted by Anna_Lannis

However, none of things are the mark of a good healer, they are the mark of a bad player. A WHM who DPS's like a bad DPS isn't and different than a BLM or NIN who DPS's bad.
A bad healer is also going to be a bad tank, or a bad DPS.

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What if I told you a good healer can shave off a good 2-10 minutes* off these boring 4-man dungeon contents while keeping their healing game up? A good scholar who maintains a good healing game while doing some DPS on the side can do up to 300 DPS**, possibly more too. That is equal, if not more, than the average DPS of equal gear you find through duty finder. Just because the tank is dipping to 1-3k for a bit doesn't mean the healer is bad. If the healer heals up the tank before any death scenario's (or any other player for that matter), it's called good sense of incoming damage and timing. Not "bad". And you can't compare a healer's dps with the dps of a class who specialises in it. It's like you're comparing a summoner's healing being bad healing like a scholar healing in cleric's stance.

On a side note: Disease reduces incoming healing. Why in the world wouldn't you esuna this in the first place? Not only does it reduce incoming healing, it also reduces movement speed.
And also: If you fluid aura away, even if it seems like no one is attacking it, the tank can't build enmity on it by flashing or using a weapon skill on it. You still generate enmity on it by just healing the tank. Yes, the tank could tomahawk/lob it. It would just make them consume an unnecessary large amount of TP just for that. Aside from tanks, there are DPS out there who DoT up additional mobs while focusing on another. Or even worse: You push it away while a summoner is about to bane it.

* Depends on the rest of the party
** White mages are a bit hard to gauge, so just putting Scholar down here for now

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Originally Posted by Kassiekane

...and this isn't. There's no reason to knock it away from tank if you're going to sleep it. The tank can use flash to build enmity on it so that it does not come after you when it wakes up, and the dps won't pull it when it they switch to it.

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Actually it is. There are 2 reasons, 1 is to avoid derps waking up adds with either tab target or aoe. 2, by the time sleep wears off add 1 and 2 should be dead, and it's their turn anyways and they'll automatically come back.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

What if I told you a good healer can shave off a good 2-10 minutes* off these boring 4-man dungeon contents while keeping their healing game up?

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And with good DPSs it would go even faster. But thats not the case in casual content. For example in CT2 first trash the result in the standard dutyfinder group would look like this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/93008346/DPS_c.png

On single target not so strong, but strong enough to deal more dmg than 2/3 of the DPS players.

So in my eyes, its ok to chill out as a heal. The others do also way less they would be able to do.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

So in my eyes, its ok to chill out as a heal. The others do also way less they would be able to do.

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This reasoning is fine...if you enjoy clearing duties at an unnecessarily slow pace.

Using the laziest and least-skilled players as the bar for minimum acceptable performance isn't a great way to have fun or to get things done in a timely manner.

Please tell me that not keeping Medica II in effect during T5 is a lolwtfWHM. I think we found a new tier everyone :D >.>

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Originally Posted by Miyu20

Please tell me that not keeping Medica II in effect during T5 is a lolwtfWHM. I think we found a new tier everyone :D >.>

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Wait, what? So you want to keep Medica II up at all times during T5? T5 has like nearly no group-wide damage, why would you want to keep Medica II up at all?

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Wait, what? So you want to keep Medica II up at all times during T5? T5 has like nearly no group-wide damage, why would you want to keep Medica II up at all?

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One of the most common "Dungeon" healer problems nowadays. I only know from word of mouth, since I queue as the healer when I run dungeons.

Medica II before pull, Regen tank, /sit.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this style of healing in T5.

If whms are bad for using medica 2, then tanks are just as bad for overpulling in speed running.
Just play the game how you want to play, your here to have fun, not work.

I main as a WHM, and have a rack of 400+ commendations that tell me I'm at least a decent healer. I never played another class in dungeons until now, as I'm leveling a PLD to help my MNK girlfriend who I convinced to start playing. Now imagine my face as I start seeing those atrocities going on. It makes me want to punch the player behind that dreaded sorry excuse of a healer and say something along the lines of "GIMME THAT STAFF! YOU ARE NOT WORTHY OF THAT! YOU ARE NOT WORTHY!

Yesterday I lost my patience and said, after 5 wipes in Brayflox where the healer couldn't keep me alive for more than 30 seconds (if I used all my survival CDs), "OK, that's it, I'm queueing as heals". It was funny when my girlfriend came to me after the dungeon and said "OK, now I understand how bad that other WHM was".

It's madness out there. Madness, I tell you.

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Originally Posted by Sumimi

One of the most common "Dungeon" healer problems nowadays. I only know from word of mouth, since I queue as the healer when I run dungeons.

Medica II before pull, Regen tank, /sit.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this style of healing in T5.

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Well, that's the thing. Read the post I quoted:
"Please tell me that not keeping medica II in effect during T5 is a lolwtfWHM"

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Well, that's the thing. Read the post I quoted:
"Please tell me that not keeping medica II in effect during T5 is a lolwtfWHM"

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Just commenting, I don't disagree.

Everyone has a level of competency before it becomes lolwtfWHM. And thus, it's subjective before it crosses that line.

For some, there is no bar. For others, the bar's really high.

If you have an entirely new WHM, who's never seen the T5 fight and has never bothered to learn it. Would he not go back to his old healing styles and react to damage as it's dealt, while having medica II running (because that's his style?)

We all agree that it's not MP efficient to be doing such a thing, because we understand the fight. However, in his eyes (and not being used to fights that last more than 5 minutes), he might have gotten into the habit of keeping a high HPS throughout the fight and medica II is the way to go.

Let's extrapolate.

How about keeping Medica II in effect throughout any fight? There's only one fight where that's viable, and that's KB in CT. Agree or Disagree?

You're not reading his post or mine Sumimi.

As that post goes, he/she had a white mage that did not keep medica II up at all times in turn 5 and the poster asked if such a white mage is a lolwtfWHM

edit: Not even asking, it was suggesting a white mage not keeping Medica II perma-up is a lolwtfWHM

.....oh.

Blind to my own assumption I am.

My bad :<

Anyone expecting a WHM to keep Medica 2 up at all times in any fight is ridiculous and then to go as far as giving it a label "lolwtfWHM".

What's the point of using Medica 2 when majority of it's ticks will go to waste? There are time and place to use it effectively but this is the first I heard of WHM being required to keep Medica 2 up at all times.

Medica IIs main use is to top off the party while the WHM focuses on healing the tank/DPSing. It should not be kept up at all times, ever.

Sorry to necro this thread. Had a WTFSCH this afternoon while running high level roulette. We were on Snowcloak. Tank was OK, still struggled to hold hate even when I use Quelling. First two bosses went fine. Then we get to Fenrir. The SCH just would not dodge aoes. We put up with her for 4 wipes, each time assuring us that she understands the fight. After the 4th wipe, I just couldn't take any more of it, so I go into the party menu to initiate a vote kick. The NIN in the group beat me to it. Our replacement healer was much better and we got the fight down on our first try.